Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Aerial wolf shooting

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Places » Alaska Donate to DU
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 03:20 AM
Original message
Aerial wolf shooting
The governor is allowing aerial wolf shooting here in Alaska. They chase them with the airplane until they are too tired to run and then gun down as many as they can. This is unsportsmanlike and unethical. If you are interested in signing a petition to stop this practice, Click here to go there!
Refresh | 0 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
ogradda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. done.
that makes me sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Ruffhowse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. done
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Maybe They Will Have Nightmares
...about their plane going down in the snow,
(because they were too caught up in the hunt to look at the gas gauge)
and the wolves closing in...
and too bad all their ammo went up in the plane.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thanks everyone!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. done
republican environmental policies
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. you're a little off the mark...
Edited on Tue Dec-07-04 05:51 AM by cleofus1
They don't land and shoot...two man teams...one flies the other shoots from the air. It isn't hunting...it's predator control. They started doing it last year to try to control the wolf population. The wolves are eating all the moose up and they need to be culled. I support it because it is a native issue. The elders support it and I agree with them. They say you can walk around all day and not even see a moose. Too many wolves is a bad thing. There are reports that they are eating each other...becouse they've eaten so many moose they are resorting to cannibalism.
Hunting is a way of life for some people and game management is necessary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Management=human greed
That is not totally true. It isn't an issue about Native hunting for subsistance...I totally support that. What I don't support is wolf slaughtering so the big game guides can come in--that is what is happening. It is all about sacrificing wolves so they can have more big game for out-of-state trophy hunting.

Do you really believe that the government is looking our for the Alaska Natives? Is that why most villages are in poverty? Is that why most villagers do not have proper schools? Yep, our government is always looking our for the less powerful.

Mother nature has done an excellent job of culling wolf populations of thousands of years before our human "management" came about. When wolf populations get too big, then they will naturally decrease in number due to a decreasing food supply. Our "help" is nothing but human greed.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I know of what i speak son....
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 05:41 AM by cleofus1
I am a native with a great deal of experience in local and state politics. I am not naive nor am I easily deluded. The reason for native problems are many and not easily put in one easy sound bite. In the end it will be natives that solve native problems. These issues are discussed at length in the native community...we don't need you or the government to define us or our problems...thanks anyway.

Mother Nature, as you so succinctly describe her, has handled the wolf population in the past. The population has risen and crashed many times. Fortunately natives firmly believe that man is part of the grand scheme. Indigenous people have managed prey and predator populations for thousands of years. We do not hunt from greed. We hunt for subsistance to feed our families. Unlike some people who shop at Carr's or Costco or eat their burgers and fries...natives in the bush rely on wild game for their primary source of food and have for millennium. Your little bullshit comment on human greed is insulting.

Lots o people on this website get all soft and mushy when Native Americans fulfill their expectations of what they think Indians/Eskimos should be. The minute we step out of the little greenie box you've set up for us...you start clucking and whining at us as if we were children. As a 46 year old man...I find that so very condescending.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. It may not be pretty...
Or even politically correct...but for many it's what they eat.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Great photo!
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 12:25 PM by I Love Alaska
This is a great photo! I don't believe that this Native flew in an airplane, running down exahusted animals, and then shot them. Many Native hunting practices are to be respected: not hunting for more than one needs, and using the meat as well as the fur of the animal. Thanks for posting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. What??
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 11:57 AM by I Love Alaska
Please read my bullshit comment closer. My comment is directed toward those (mostly whites) in power and those making thousands of dollars off guided trophy hunts of moose and caribou from out-of-state hunters. Should their greed come before wolves lives? And it is a bit naive to think that the government is passing legilation for the good of Natives. (Ms. Lincoln was a fantastic legislator but as you know, she had to retire). Our white Republician governor and legislators are just looking out for themselves and their crownies, not the people or animals who need it. Like it or not, they are speaking for you, me , and the rest of Alaskans! They are the ones deciding what will happen with our land, its inhabitants and its resources.

Again, I have no objection to subsistance hunting. I live here too, and people need meat to get through the winter.

Just because I am white doesn't mean that I can't use my voice to protect those less able to. Just because you are Native, doesn't make you an authority.



Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Clip of aerial shooting
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 12:30 PM by I Love Alaska
If you would like to see a 59 second clip of Alaska aerial wolf shooting, go to:
http://www.savealaskawolves.org/

Click on the link to watch movie clip. This inhumane practice is happening here in Alaska right now despite that voters have rejected it TWICE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. Natives...
Will hunt the most efficient way that is available...that includes airplanes and snow machines. Back in the good old days (you seem to be looking back on with a rose colored glasses) lots of native hunters died or came home empty handed. All natives have embraced new tech as it becomes available...from stone tipped spears to metal...from dog sleds to 4 wheelers...we are not stuck in time always destined to wear mukluks and stone tipped arrows. We have found it possible to embrace our culture and walk in the modern age...we have to or we will die...as to your genius insight on the republicans and native issues...Once again I will say that you don't have to point out Murkowski's shortcomings...Just because I hate Murkowski doesn't mean I will accept your silly perception of what a native should do when it comes to subsistence. Don't need your advice.
You are being disingenuous when you say you support native right to hunt, but don't want us to kill wolves in the most efficient way possible. If the wolves keep prey population low then natives can't hunt anyway. So we will kill the wolves and hunt the moose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Inhumane is inhumane...
Edited on Sat Dec-11-04 05:03 PM by I Love Alaska
I don't believe natives still use metal tipped arrows to hunt-that is silly to suggest that I believe such thing. There is a high population of Native here--they are just like everyone else with a few cultural exceptions which I respect.

It is also unreasonable to suggest that Alaskans other than Natives don't have a right to voice their opinions on subjects that effect them. Again, I am an Alaskan just as much as you are. I notice that you are originally from Arizona/New Mexico. Please don't suggest that you have greater rights than me (remember that little document called the Constitution which says "All men are created equal").

I will continue to advocate for the removal of inhumane policies used by the government or Natives. This hunting is about out-of-state hunters paying guides big money. If Natives are the ones doing the guided hunts and profiting from it, just come out and say so.

At least we share some common ground with disliking the governor. I will give you kudos for that:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Why do you anti's alawys resort to "Mother Nature"
You know, I am a biologist, with advanced degrees, published journal articles, etc. Why does everyone assume that "Mother Nature" will take care of her own??? 99.95% of all species that have ever existed are extinct. Starvation is perhaps the cruelest of all deaths, and if I had the choice between a bullet and a death by starvation, I know what death I would choose.

Alaska is no longer "natural". We have articificial salmon runs, trout, etc. We manage caribou and moose for both subsistence and money-making. I certianly do not think that wolves should be exterminated to make room for the great white hunter from the lower 48, but I certianly oppose the PETA view that wolves and bears are just overgrown stuffed toys that need our love. The sporting and commercial industry up here regarding wildlife employs thousands of Alaskans, and if it were to go by the wayside, there would not be much left as far as industry up here. As for the subsitence, natives should be allowed to practice their way of life, it is their heritage. I practice a psuedo-subsitance lifestyle myself and live almost exculsively from my kills and catches (supplement milk and vegetables from the store though). I do this by choice because as a biologist (actually a toxicologist) who worked in the agricultural industry for a long time, I refuse to eat a lot of meat in our food chain. I believe Mad Cow is just the beginning due to the unhealthy practices we employ with our ag commodities.

As a final note, on a philosophical rational. What is the difference between killing a wolf or moose vs. killing a rat or a cow? I mean, do you believe that somehow a wolf values his life more than a rat? I challenge this belief. You are anthropomorphizing the wolf, but allow the rat to be trapped because he is "ugly".


Finally, if you are so concerned about our wildlife what have you done to support it? Are you a member of ducks unlimited, the Izaak Walton League, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation? These organizations are NOT about hunting, they are about habitat restoration for the animals. Do you support these organizations? I mean, last year alone I spent over $1200 supporting wildlife restoration and I am a hunter. How much time, money, and effort did you spend?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Southeast Alaska Conservation Counsel
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 05:45 PM by I Love Alaska
Ever heard if it?? Yes, I support them and their efforts to support Alaska habitat along with the Sierra Club. I am not a member of PETA, but you assumed that I am. I live here in Alaska and know that bears and wolves are not "teddy bears." There you go assuming you know what I think.

Why is it that you hunters call those of us who support humane wildlife management antis?? I say that your support of aerial hunting practices are ANTI-humane!

As for your position on hunting, I too eat meat. Wild game is better than store bought meat. I have a problem with the inhumane aerial shooting of wolves in order to have game for out-of-staters. "Lets kill in order that we may kill" is just egregious! This measure has been voted down TWICE by Alaskan voters. I guess that I could ASSUME that you support overriding the will of the people.

Why is it that when people are afraid they may not be taken seriously, they start spouting their degree, awards, etc? "I am an expert, don't listen to your gut and intuition of what you know is wrong and cruel."

I do not believe aerial hunting of wolves is a good solution to this problem. Many states are implementing other solutions to their wolf problems. Since we have the capacity for higher-order thinking, why then, Mr. Toxicologist, have you and yours not been able to come up with a better solution than running down animals until exhaustion, shooting them, and then leaving their bodies lying in the snow to rot?? I will continue spreading the word on this cruel practice until you biologists come up with a better plan for Alaskan wolves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. No, I do not believe in overrding the will of the people
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 06:31 PM by DenaliDemocrat
I believe that professional wildlife decisions should be made by professionals. THAT is why I "tout my degree". I am trained formally and have 12 years experience in this field -- why does everyone untrained think that reading "Audobon" and watching "Discovery Channel" makes them an expert?

Does THE WILL OF PEOPLE get to set interest rates? NO -- profesional economists do that. Does the WILL OF THE PEOPLE get to decide which drugs get FDA approval -- NO trained professionals do it. Why does wildlife issues need to be decided by THE PEOPLE? Please don't give me that well wildlife is enjoyed by EVERYONE uses it speil cause so is MONEY and PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, and average Joe Home Depot employee sure as hell does not get to set financial policy for the U.S.


Truth of the matter is, I wouldn't trust most of THE PEOPLE to wash my truck, and let's not forget that THE PEOPLE just voted G.W. Bush another 4 years in office.


Why does everyone assume they are a biologist when they are not? Bottom line - this is part of a statewide STUDY with support from TRAINED BIOLOGISTS not sunday viewers of the crocodile hunter.


And for the record -- the Sierra Club does almost NOTHING to support wildlife issues. When was the last time you saw a tract of land set aside for wildlife purchased by the SIerra Club?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I notice that you...
did not mention that I support SE AK Conservation Counsel. You also need to check your facts on the Sierra club. They support keeping what lands we do have pristine. This indirectly supports wildlife.

As your your expertise, toxicology is quite different than wildlife biology. I don't believe sitting in a lab qualifies you any more than the rest of us to know what is right and what is WRONG.

For your information, I do not have cable to watch those animal shows that you listed. I spend my days outdoors watching wildlife right here in my backyard--live.

I guess you trust much more in the "experts" than I do. Should I trust the experts that told us there were WMD's in Iraq? Should I trust the experts that say that killing people is the best way to "help" them?? Hummmm.......sounds familiar.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DenaliDemocrat Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Wrong Again--is YOU
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 07:54 PM by DenaliDemocrat
Toxicology is very much a part of wildlife biology, as we as forensics, plant pathology, chemistry etc. They all overlap, and again, I spent my time working as a team member for a lot of different wildlife and agricultural projects. Lots of disciplines for a project.


Sierra Club is a joke regarding wildlife.


They are still giving out degrees in biology if you want to become an expert...you are not as erudite as you think
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. wanna be expert
No thanks...I prefer the sciences that have a heart....
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. where do you get your information....comic books...
Edited on Sun Dec-12-04 06:19 PM by cleofus1
In case you haven't figured it our yet...Both Arizona and New Mexico has significant Native American populations...And my brother-in-law proudly showed me a compound bow with steel tips that he purchased off the internet. So yeah natives use steel tip arrows as well as winchesters and mossburgs...And yes me and my family are mixed natives...but 100 percent according to BIA...
And you know what...that same constitution that protects your rights protects my rights too...and sure I have nothing against sports hunters...they have their rights too...true we make strange bedfellows, but we have common ground and that common ground is the need for proper game management...human beings have been managing game for millenia for trophy and game. You sound like humans are some sort of anomaly to mother earth...or that maybe you have some sort of hotline to Gaea and she tells you what's right or wrong...
You say one thing but you know if you could stop natives from hunting whales, wolves or seals you would do it. That's your hidden agenda...so don't start giving me that baloney about how you support native rights.
That's my take anyway...Yeah we live in Anchorage...but we all still eat native foods and have a shitload of relatives in the villages and on the reservation...



Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
I Love Alaska Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Wrong again...
I would not, as you say, "stop natives from hunting whales or seals," as long as the animals are not being shot left to rot.

Nice looking family........
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Places » Alaska Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC