Edwards did ok, but not great. The debate was a draw (sorry).

[Bucky]

I thought Edwards missed more than a couple of really strong kayo punches. On a couple of occasions he flubbed his lines. He didn't come across as a liability the same way that Bush on Thursday night came off as a liability to his boss. Edwards was right whenever they clashed, but as a brainy Democrat I want my candidate to really make the sale on a number of issues and blow away the half truths the Republicans use to distort our ticket's record.

Edwards didn't do that. Don't get me wrong; he gave as good as he got, which is tolerable. But another slamdunk would've done wonders for this election. Cheney was able to re-open up the doubts his half truths have spread against Kerry (which Kerry pretty much had dealt with last week). Edwards played the Halliburton issue wat too soft, he underplayed the screw ups in Iraq, and he lost opportunities to blow Cheney's predictable "flip flop" attacks out of the water, but failed to connect. His responses on the healthcare debate weren't by-the-numbers and again lacked a solid selling point for undecided or soft voters. It was good enough for the base, of course, but as an editor I could think of a half dozen ways I'd like to see Edwards recast the healthcare costs debate, the gay "marriage" amendment, the education and poverty issues.

The whole thing was predictable a/o unsurprising. Edwards stuck too close to the script on gay marriage and didn't really make the sale on how wrong it is to tinker with the Constitution over this minor issue. His points about state rights on marriage were spot on, but I've heard Kerry paint the issue in very clear terms as a matter of extending basic civil rights in a way that plays to peoples' core sense of fairness. Edwards didn't win his points, merely held his own.

He didn't touch on the Plame leak, nor the secret energy policy meetings, or the Chalabi scandal, or the screw ups at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, or the administration's obstruction against the 9/11 commission, or the obstruction against the 9/11 commission's recommendations, or the failure of the administration to get elderly people to sign onto the new medicare drug coverage plan because they dno't trust this White House. He tossed only soft pitches on their flip flopping on the commission and the Homeland Security department and the failure to be a "uniter" as promised.

I guess I keep thinking about how General Smackdown could've done with those openings. Cheney nailed Edwards good with the line "first time I've met him" line. Although I'm sure the real story is far more complex, Edwards let that one stick and didn't respond. In case anyone misses it--that was a goddamn sound bite. Coming back now, after the attack, will seem as lame as the "Kerry used notes" excuse the Freepos were trying.

Edwards will do okay as a VP, but he's not a very good attack dog. He did okay against Cheney, but debates are always a huge advantage for Democrats (Big Dog told you why) and Edwards failed to use this one to its utmost. That's a B-, senator. Go back to your swing state rallies and start smiling again.

[Edgewater_Joe]

1. Don't Be Sorry - A Draw Is A Win

Cheney's the sitting vice president. Edwards held his own.
That means he was equal to V.P. F*** Yourself.

That's a win any damn way you think about it, no?

[Princess Turandot]

31. Absolutely..

at the worst, if they call it a draw, it's a win for K/E. Cheney himself pointed out his 30 years of governmental experience, vs. Edwards measly six years. Theoretically, if that experience was key, he should have mowed him down, and that he certainly didn't do.

Edward's comeback to Cheney's comment on the votes he missed, that some of Cheney's votes were a problem, since he voted against Headstart, Meals on Wheels & making a national holiday in honor of MLK was my favorite line.

[winga222]

2. Questions

Considering the questions he was asked, Edwards did well. Maybe not great but better than I thought for this format.

[Carolinian]

3. You're wrong. Apology accepted. Edwards was wonderful.

[cheshire]

4. So you were the guy voting a draw on the polls. I was wondering who he was

[Bucky]

12. Ha-ha! Nope, I vote Edwards won in about eight polls so far

But online polls are just pep rallies intending to rally our troops. I can play that game. But just between us, back here at home, I think Edwards shouldn't have missed so many fat pitches in his strike zone. I'm content with his performance, but I wanted to be exstatic.

[cheshire]

14. OK now give me you thoughts on Dick, and then compare. Please

[Bucky]

28. DC=total vomit head. I don't get his appeal. I try not to think about him.

I freely admit that I hold Democrats to higher standards than I do Republicans. All my comments are in-house, for Demo-consumption only, so please don't take it as me talking down our side. I do believe in telling the truth as I see it. Cheney and the word "truth" don't fit in the same paragraph.

But Cheney did one smart thing, take a complete pass on the gay marriage amendment issue. Everything else was spins and half truths. But in a rhetorical match a half truth can be just as convincing as a truth. Unless you directly poke a hole someone's spin, it's just as effective as a valid point.

Cheney was mumbly and crotchety, but I don't put a lot of value on physical appearance. I'd vote for Quasimodo over Bush any day of the week. He made his case solidly about the need to count the losses of Iraqi troops, even if it wasn't quite germaine as to whether we can get other countries to join in on our efforts there. He did a decent job of defending a rather indefensible administration.

On strictly debater's points, I give him props on that. If it weren't for all those damn facts he got wrong (see image below), he'd have done a competant job.

[indie_voter]

5. A draw was all I expected

Cheney is a sociopath. Good does not defeat evil in real life. The best one can do is expose insanity.

Edwards (and I was no fan of his, I was and am forever a Wes Clark democrat!) created reasonable doubt.

I think people wanted a dramatic Perry Mason (I CONFESS) moment, which was not going to happen.

Shrub wilts because he is not the president. Cheney, who is the real president, couldn't be expected to wilt.

Edwards did fine.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

6. You seem to be in a rather distinct minority.

[Bucky]

15. Story of my life, MLD. I don't mind being alone as long as I say my piece

There are things I sometimes feel need to be said, so I say them. I'm not the rosy scenario type. There's always room for improvement.

So obviously I'm a Democrat.

[sonicx]

7. a draw is a win for us. Edwards is 'inexperienced.' Cheney should have

killed him

[Ready4Change]

8. I agree.

I also disagreee with the TV pundits who are calling it a major Cheney win, as well as many of the polls which are equally calling it an Edwards win.

While I thought Edwards had strong points, and came across as more human, I also think he was clumsy in parts and not staying focused on the current question.

Cheney was cold, mechanical, and was obviously lieing outright in saying he never claimed there was a connection between Saddam and Al Queda. However, he stayed calm, collected, and was a fountain of so many facts and figures it was impossible to pull the many misleading and simply wrong ones out of the flood.

So I call it a draw.

[yellowdawgdem]

9. It was a draw

from what I saw of the debate, and I agree with all of the points you made. I especially wondered why Edwards chose not to defend himself against the charge of being senator Gone. Not good. And, even though Edwards did say all the right things, I thought his presentation seemed weak, and I'm not even sure why. He seemed kinda nervous and not as charming as usual. then afterwards, when they showed the candidates with their families, he had that big grin on his face, and they were bouncing the babies. So I figure his strong point is campaigning rather than debating. Another thing, I thought Gwen asked him particularly difficult questions, and it put him on the spot. But still in all, a draw is fine, and all that is needed.

[redstateblues]

10. Edwards Made Cheney Look Foolish-Cheney Only Nicked Edwards

Cheney had no answers for many of JE's charges. It wasn't a slam ala Kerry Bush but JE won.

[yellowdawgdem]

34. it all comes down to partisan politix

You like who you like, and think he won. Freepers will do the same.

[daveskilt]

19. it seemed a draw ONLY because cheney was not as terrible as bush

[MazeRat7]

11. I agree with draw or slight Edwards advantage

Edwards held his own against a seasoned politico. I was impressed with that and by itself should be considered a "win". While Cheney's "style" had a lot to be desired, he seemed to have a better grasp of details and governmental operations. On a cautionary note, both Kerry and Edwards had better get real specific about all their "plans" or that is going to bite them in the butt on Nov 2nd. So yeah, I would agree with "Draw" if not a slight edge to Edwards because he confronted Cheney on his "spin".

Bottom line, we weren't hurt and monkey boy was not helped.

My 2 cents...

MZr7

[sandnsea]

13. Edwards won because he didn't lose

That's first and foremost. But if you listen to what JE says, he brought up alot of points that people didn't know and made some points better than JK, the flip flops, the war vote, Iran sanctions, Halliburton crimes, lots of things.

Too many are confusing big daddy with winner. Men more than women I think. What is it with you guys when a big daddy gets around? Are you really that insecure in your manhood, seriously, what is it?

[hansolsen]

16. Cheney came across 100 times smarter than Bush, Edwards came across

smarter than Cheney. This is very bad for Bush.

Cheney did score a few points on Edwards, but Edwards held his own. Your points about all the Cheney scandal issue Edwards left alone is well taken, but I would point out, that had to be a campaign decision, not an Edwards decision.

They may have collectively chosen to take a small list of issues and really hammer them, rather than scatter gun -- that may have been a good call.

[daveskilt]

17. I have to give the edge to edwards but see your point

cheney got points simply for being articulate and not the drooling buffoon bush was. cheney handled numbers and facts well to his advantage and to anyone who (unlike me screaming liar at my TV) didn't know he was lying (and who would tell them - chris matthews? please) those could be points

edwards wins on these points - bushco are experienced yes but 4 years of screwups isnt too hot.
- halliburton is a good button to push
- the cheney record on voting to steal food from old ladies and spit on MLK is damning
- FINALLY someone mentions the fact that Kerry voted on 6 times the tax cuts of tax hikes
- FINALLY someone mentions the fact that Kerry voted to cut defemse spending on bills that cheney proposed in the first place!

edwards did look a bit weak on the whole could he be president thing - he was my second choice in the primaries but he sure didnt look anything like Kerry did last week in terms of being presidential

but darth cheney was more mr burns than anything - I mean "AIDS killed the productive workers and hurt the economy" oh yeah and its bad for non economic reasons too I suppose???

[Thrill]

18. Edwards didn't need to so call "WIN"

All he needed to do was not hurt Kerry and show the arogance Cheney and Bush. And he did just that

[apnu]

20. ANYBODY LOOKING FOR A CAGE MATCH LIKE WIN IN THE DEBATE IS BEING SILLY!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

21. Sorry, but I disagree

I felt that Edwards won. It wasn't the kick-in-the-balls that Bush* got off Kerry, but it was a win nonetheless.

[Bucky]

23. No, it wasn't a win. THIS is what a win looks like

Delightful. I still say Edwards didn't win the actual debate. But it sure looks like we're about to win the after debate. Cheney doesn't have a prayer to stand on... literally!!!

[MazeRat7]

24. Oh thats good. Pass it on. (n/t)

[Zorbet55]

22. easy victory for edwards. everyone has agreed.

cheney had no defense for the obvious mistakes that he participated in. he also looked like a jerk contradicting things his own administration has admitted to.

[rocktivity]

25. Kerry won on multiple knockdowns, Edwards won on points

If you were expecting a re-enactment of the previous debate, you were doomed to be disappointed--unlike Kerry, Edwards actually HAD an opponent. But a DRAW? Not even close!

Cheney got in a couple of licks on the foreign policy-related questions, but nothing that qualified as an actual blow. Edwards repeatedly tagged him on domestic and economy issues while refusing to let Cheney intmidate him. Edwards came across as vibrant, confident, and focused. Cheney came across as a homeless man shuffling along and mumbling obscentities--the only time he looked directly into the camera was during his closing remark!

:headbang:
rocknation

[myopic4141]

26. Edwards won by a slight edge.

I watched the debate on CSPAN 2 because they used the split screen throughout the entire debate. Cheney seemed to stumble for answers a few time whereas Edwards came across more sure of himself. Cheney also tried a few "where do I start" comments which got old and then never followed through with a good answer. There were a couple of direct attacks at Edwards; but, Edwards responded well enough. Same with Edwards to Cheney and Cheney responding well enough.

[w4rma]

27. Sorry. Edwards won big. I disagree. All polls disagree with you too. (nt)

[Bucky]

29. But dude, WE are freeping the polls. It's a valid form of combat, but...

...it's not quite the same as a genuine poll. I think it was a tie and I've voted now on ten polls saying Edwards won. Let's not confuse the pep rally with the game.

[sonicx]

33. the polls have more responses than DU has members and

Non-political people have said that Edwards won.

not that it matters, if you say it was a draw, that's ok. :D

[MADem]

30. ADVANTAGE--EDWARDS (Clearly!!!)

Let me tell you what I think will be remembered about this debate.

Cheney droned, and droned, and droned. He did not want to be there, and it showed. He snarled, he sneered, he slumped in his chair and did not even MOVE, and he preached DOOM in a monotone. He kept covering his mic with his hands so he sounded fuzzy. He also lied on about seven separate occasions, and that will come out tomorrow.

Edwards was engaged, interested, sharp, and while not defensive, defended himself. He wasn't rude, but he slapped back in the nicest possible way. He behaved like a gentleman, he hit fact point after fact point after fact point, in plain english, he appealed to our better natures, and he concluded with a message of hope instead of fear.

Tomorrow, they will sort out the facts. They will figure that Cheney BSed his way through (the "I never said that about Iraq and Al Qaida" was a HOOT--the Daily Show has a bit in their archives about that very thing!!! And he said it AGAIN!!!) and Edwards was accurate.

Edwards WON. Cheney should have torn him up, but it did not happen. Cheney looked like a tired old man. Edwards WON.

[The_Casual_Observer]

32. Sorry, yes this post is sorry alright

cheney's performance was without merit. It was actually a frightening pack of lies bundled up and put forward by a sick old geezer who couldn't even stand up for the duration.

[Swamp Rat]

35. John Edwards won the debate.

Cheney was only successful at keeping his human form in check for the duration of the debate.