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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:36 PM
Original message
It Was a Rout (my report on the debate)
Edited on Thu Sep-30-04 11:44 PM by WilliamPitt
Please hold off on forwarding this until tomorrow morning. We will put this out at the crack of dawn. Thanks...and thanks for the work you all did tonight. The best stuff in this - the Scarborough comments, the Freeper freakouts, the ABC story - are in here because you posted them. Thank you, and thank you, and thank you.

=====

"Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!"

- Howard Cosell

There was a President on that stage in Florida on Thursday night, and his name was not George.

This was supposed to be the debate that played to the strengths of Bush and his administration. Foreign policy in general and the protection of the United States from terrorism in particular, according to all the polls and every talking head within earshot, are the areas where George supposedly commands the high ground. That illusion came crashing down on the stage in Coral Gables.

How else can one describe the demeanor and behavior of Bush, as seen by 40,000,000 television viewers and millions more radio listeners? Shrill. Defensive. Muddled. Angry, very angry. Repetitive. Uninformed. Outmatched. Unprepared. Hesitant. Twenty four minutes into the debate, Bush lost his temper, and spent the remaining hour and six minutes looking for all the world as though he were sucking on a particularly bitter lemon.

This is what happens when you surround yourself with yes-men. John Kerry put the bricks to Bush and the last four years of his administration clearly, concisely, eloquently and with devastating effect. Bush reacted like any man who has never, ever had anyone tell him anything other than "Good job, sir."

That is what happens when you have to defend your record as President, something that no one in the media or elsewhere had managed to force Bush to do in the last 1,000 days. In the October 2000 debate, Bush managed to hold his own simply by making promises and telegraphing an aw-shucks charm. On Thursday night, Bush faced a reckoning at the hands of a man who cut his teeth prosecuting and imprisoning mob bosses.

Don't take my word for it, though.

"They need to make Americans forget what happened tonight," said ultraconservative Joe Scarborough on MSNBC, speaking on what he believed the Bush campaign needed to do post-debate. Right out of the gate, Scarborough and the other talking heads gave the debate to Kerry, hands down, turn out the lights when you leave. "I think John Kerry," said Scarborough a bit later," looked more Presidential."

A post-debate caller to C-SPAN announced herself as one who had voted for and supported Bush, and then described the Democratic candidate as "President Kerry." Freudian slip? We report, you decide.

At FreeRepublic.com, the bastion of far-right cheerleading, the faithful were fashioning nooses. "It's really painful listening to Bush," said one Godebert. "Kerry has had him on the defensive from the beginning. Kerry sounds confident while Bush has a pleading defensive tone. Not good so far."

"Kerry looked much more experienced," said one whadizit. "He appeared to be relaxed and in control. W looked weary and worn and sounded weary and worn."

"Unfortunately," saith The Sons of Liberty, "Kerry looked more prepared. He seemed to have more facts, however questionable, at his command and he delivered his message succinctly. Even when confronted on his flip-flops, he had plausible explanations. On the other hand, The President seemed to lose his train of thought at times. He continued to repeat the same things, and he looked tired and a little haggard. He needs to do much better next time."

The comments went on and drearily on in this vein, in conversation thread after conversation thread, until a forum participant named areafiftyone threw the distraught legions a lifeline: "I had that feeling that Kerry had the questions beforehand. He seemed to have his answers right on target. Bush seemed like he was surprised by the questions. I wish they could investigate to see if the DNC got a hold of the questions beforehand."

Yeah, that's it! Never mind that one participant had total command of the facts, an understanding of the foreign policy realm, a firm grasp on the situations in Iraq, North Korea and Afghanistan, while the other participant seemed shocked that faded platitudes and repeated campaign slogans weren't getting the job done. The shattering, humiliating, obvious defeat handed to George W. Bush before a massive television audience must have come because moderator Jim Lehrer somehow conspired with debate host Fox News to telegraph the questions to Kerry beforehand.

The two most embarrassing moments for Bush, culled from a symphony of embarrassing moments, came while discussing the situation in Iraq. After many minutes of being pummeled about the head and shoulders with the realities of the mess he had created, Bush lost his temper for the ninth or tenth time and insisted, "We're going to win this war in Iraq!" Yet it was many months and many dead American soldiers ago, on May 1st 2003 in fact, that Bush stood below a banner reading MISSION ACCOMPLISHED and proclaimed, "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."

Hm.

The second embarrassing moment came after Bush repeated his mantra about "staying the course" until the paint started to peel off the podium he was slouching over. We have to be resolute, we have to stay the course, we cannot send mixed messages to our troops and the world...and yet after an hour of bombardment from Kerry, Bush finally said, "Well, I think -- listen, I fully agree that one should shift tactics, and we will, in Iraq."

So, OK, let me get this straight: We have to stay the course and not send mixed messages, and you've been blowing voluminous amounts of sunshine up the collective American backside for weeks about how boffo the Iraq situation is, but after an hour of taking rhetorical body blows from your opponent, you suddenly claims we are going to change tactics? It seemed for all the world that Kerry convinced Bush that things in Iraq are as bad as people have been saying for weeks and months now.

The most amusing aspect of the whole debate came several hours before it began, when ABCNews.com posted an Associated Press article discussing the debate in the past tense. "After a deluge of campaign speeches and hostile television ads," wrote AP, apparently putting the Way-Back Machine they've been building to use, "President Bush and challenger John Kerry got their chance to face each other directly Thursday night before an audience of tens of millions of voters in a high-stakes debate about terrorism, the Iraq war and the bloody aftermath."

"The 90-minute encounter," continued AP reporter Nostradamus, "was particularly crucial for Kerry, trailing slightly in the polls and struggling for momentum less than five weeks before the election. The Democratic candidate faced the challenge of presenting himself as a credible commander in chief after a torrent of Republican criticism that he was prone to changing his positions."

You can put that particular Bush campaign talking point to bed. If this had been a boxing match, it would have been stopped. If Bush shows up for the next two debates, I will be, frankly, amazed. Watch for his campaign to reach for the chicken switch before the weekend is out, claiming perfidy on the part of the networks or some other sad folderol.

No amount of spin will be able to undo the reality of what took place in Florida on Thursday night. What happened on that stage was an absolute, immutable truth. Bush looked bad. Worse, he looked uninformed, overmatched and angry. Worst of all, he's going to have to go through it two more times.

If he shows up.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bush kept going for his water glass as if
he was looking for the liquid courage he says he doesn't imbibe anymore.
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Paulie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Are we sure it was water?
Probably vodka. It would explain his color change in the 2nd half.... Hmmmm
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Just confirms what those Swift Drunks Against Bush are saying.
"Never put a Drunk in the White House"

The Bush Crew suffering from lesions on their tongues from licking their wounds tonight....
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. my thoughts exactly....
he was like an alcoholic seeking relief from the pain of getting his ass kicked by taking another drink. He went through about 4 glasses of water while Kerry maintained his composure extremely well, looking Presidential the entire time.
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Technowitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. Did you notice how many times he picked up the empty glass?
*grins*
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Chichiri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. What was the turning point at 24 minutes?
I don't remember for sure.

And thanks for the article, William, and for all you do for DU! We couldn't appreciate it more! (Well, we could with money... ;) )
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blitzen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Will....Scarborough's on MSNBC, not Fox
a minor error...but the Freeps love to jump all over such things.

An excellent piece of writing!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. D'oh!
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. One comment
Scarborough is on MSNBC, not FAUX.

Otherwise BOFFO ARTICLE!
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. I thought Scarborough was MSNBC?
Was he freelancing tonight?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. My bad, fixed
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. MSNBC poll, Kerry 70 Bush 30, LANDSLIDE
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank you, Mr. Pitt.
Having high blood pressure and no health insurance, I could not risk watching. I can now retire for the evening, knowing the world just might become a safer, saner place soon.

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. What ABC story? did I miss something?
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Polemonium Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kick and my favorite bit
* actually defended our staying out of the international court on National Television. I'm not even sure most Americans knew we are not on board with international laws.
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. Just one more thing to point out --
in the sixth paragraph from the bottom, the one that begins "So, OK . . . " the word CLAIMS shouldn't be plural.

Sorry to be nit-picky, but this piece is too good to let Freepers correct anything in it.

Thanks for all you do in fighting the good fight, Will.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:52 PM
Original message
Bush Was Downright Hostile and Practically Coming Unhinged
Edited on Thu Sep-30-04 11:53 PM by Beetwasher
I expected him to leap over the podium and strangle Lehrer at any moment...

Beautiful piece my friend.
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poppabear36 Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. I disagree "vociferously"
with a typo - "you suddenly claims" 5th to last paragraph.
Ohterwise spot on!
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. "Seen by....radio listeners?
Great article, though.
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jumpstart33 Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. Will, LISTEN UP!!!!
The Rethugs will sure as hell make an attack ad showing Kerry saying that his "pre-emptive" war strategy would need to pass a "global test." The Rethugs will use this in an ad to make it seem that Kerry would put our security in the hands of other nations. The Kerry campaign needs to get an ad out there that has Kerry further explaining this position. For the life of me I don't know what it would say. This was a major misspeak. I hope they are preparing.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. Will, you are a helluva writer. I don't know how you can produce a lengthy
piece this well-written in so short a time. I heard bush talk about shifting tactics, but I missed the reference that he would change tactics in Iraq. I can't believe our resolute President said that.
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LawDem Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. I came here to celebrate!
So I assume this thread is the official party? Because I came to party hardy. Kerry kicked his butt. Cheers.
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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. Cheers to you!
Edited on Fri Oct-01-04 12:35 AM by onecitzenBtrayed
I'm in a party mood too!:toast:
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. Great article!
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. Sounding good on Malloy!
Blowing sunshine up America's backside. Hee hee.
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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
23. Wil, are you keeping track of the "illusions"?
Poland=less than 200 soldiers

http://www.fact-index.com/p/po/polish_contribution_to_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq.html

The Polish contingent contained (total: 184 troops):

54 soldiers from the elite GROM commando unit (it is known that these were involved in direct fighting with the Iraqi army)

the logistic support ship "Xawery Czarniecki" with over 50 crew and a FORMOZA navy commando unit

74 antichemical contamination troops


After George W. Bush (March 26, 2003) mentioned Warsaw's contribution prominently in a speech, Poland asked that its participation in the coalition not be used for "propaganda purposes."
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RadiDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
24. Frazier goes down ! GREAT article Will Pitt !
gg
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debsianben Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
25. Four Observations About the Debate

1.Kerry chided Bush for not sending enough troops to Iraq to "get the job done," implying that even more American kids would go to their deaths for this rotten oil war in a Kerry administration.

2.Kerry criticized Bush for "sending the wrong message to the 'terrorists'" by "backing out of Fallujah." Yeah, Bush is way too soft on those evil "terrorists" fighting to defend their homes in Fallujah. He isn't dropping enough 500-pound bombs in urban areas.

3.Kerry explicitly upheld the absolute right of American Presidents to engage in "preemptive strikes." He bizzarely conceded that Iraq, a bombed out impoverished shell of a country that the US outspend militarily by a ratio of 400-to-1 was a "threat" to the US, meaning that the only questions up for debate were the nuances of how to respond to that threat--Bush's time line was too fast, the coalition was not broad enough, etc. He even tried to out-flank Bush to the right for "allowing" Iran and North Korea to acquire a nuclear deterrent against potential US invasion attempts.

4.Kerry got the maddest when Bush tried to slander him by accusing him of (gasp!) opposing the war and wanting to bring the troops home. As Kerry firmly put it, "I'm not talkiing about leaving, I'm talking about winning."

Given 1-4, the debate did a good job if nothing else of clarifying the choices in November. Those who think Bush has been doing a good job in Iraq should vote for Bush, those who support the war but think that Bush has bungled the job by alienating allies and not sending enough troops to "get the job done" should vote for Kerry and those who marched against the war on February 15, 2003, should vote for Nader.
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fabius Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.
Even Howard Dean wasn't proposing to just pull out immediately. I'm not sure Kerry's plan will work. I'm not sure anything will work now, that it's so screwed up. I'm certain Bush's plan won't work.

Some of this stuff is just guff, Kerry ain't going to start any wars. And Kerry really is going to corral the loose fissile material. And protect the environment. There really is a difference.

Kerry won't lead us into the shining future where human needs come before profits, but he will keep us from blowing everything up before we have a chance to find a leader who will.

OK?

Think globally, act locally.

Think long term, act every day.

Build up the Left.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. I'm a big pacifist
but countries DO have the right to engage in pre-emptive strikes IF and only IF they meet a STRINGENT test: is that country under an IMMINENT threat from another country? In other words, guns are AIMED at your country. You have airtight, waterproof evidence that you are ABOUT to come under attack.

Then and only then can you wage a pre-emptive attack. Iraq didn't have anything aimed at us, didn't DO anything to us.

But Kerry was right in saying we do reserve the right to attack pre-emptively IF and only IF the very stringent requirements are met according to international law.

Actually while we were building up to bombing and invading Iraq and had all our guns pointed at them, IRAQ would have been perfectly justified in attacking US at that point.

Ironic, isn't it? But the irony has totally escaped bush, of course.

Oh and I'm voting for Kerry.
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fabius Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
26. The truth shall set us free. Thanks, Will!
Finally after four miserable years of the media spin and SCLM filter, we see the unvarnished truth up on stage!

No viewer can dispute the outcome.

I have a little conservative blog I visit for fun - Ok one of the regular posters is a relative - I try to be gentle and persuasive if possible in my comments. They're pretty distraught. :evilgrin:

We haven't won the election yet, but I'm energized! Canvassing two days this weekend. Go get 'em!
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
27. Will, it was at least two, if not three CSPAN callers who said Pres. Kerry
I really think it was three, but I'm sure it was at least two.
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RafterMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
29. "Rout" isn't the half of it
He rolled over faster than France. George Bush is the new cheese-eating surrender-monkey.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
30. Hey, remember the long count?
This was the short trip to the moon! Yeah to the moon, George!
KA-POW!
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-01-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
34. Good analysis, Will
!!
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