Is someone telling older NH voters they can't vote in Primary?

[RamboLiberal]

Interesting note from Talking Points Memo.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Here's the scoop on the ARG poll and the comments in their daily poll analysis suggesting that someone was telling older independent voters that they weren't eligible to vote in the

Another scandal hits journalism: USA Today reporter Jack Kelley resigned on Tuesday after a probe of his work. Why so much cheating in journalism? Read The Cheating Culture to find out. And click above to visit www.cheatingculture.com for analysis of the Kelley case.
This afternoon I spoke to Dick Bennett, president of ARG. And here's what he told me.

On Wednesday evening, ARG interviewers (i.e., the folks who call you on the phone) started noticing that a number of older independent voters were screening themselves out of the survey because they'd been called by another campaign and told that they wouldn't be eligible to vote because they'd missed the deadline to declare as Democrats.

[Padraig18]

1. About the sixth time today this stuff has been posted.

:eyes:

[windansea]

39. typical response

guess what...there will be more articles about this

we'll keep you updated :)

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. yes.

someone is and it sucks. Notice though, that if the person was going to vote Dean then it was OK, they would be able to vote. :grr:
There's another thread about this, so they may lock this as a dupe. :)

[blm]

3. This is additional to what was posted before, so I don't think it's a dupe

But, this was in an earlier thread from Marshall:

>>>>>
Over the past 2 days of calling, a number of older respondents registered as undeclared voters have reported that they have received telephone calls from a campaign informing them that they will not be allowed to vote in the Democratic primary because they missed the deadline to switch parties. A respondent discovered, however, that when she told the caller that she was thinking about voting for Howard Dean, the caller told her that she would be eligible to vote.

The clear implication of this comment is that someone  
 from the Dean campaign is making some sort of push-poll trying to depress the turnout of a voting group that leans against Dean (or at least isn't his strongest), i.e., older voters.

If true, it's the slimiest stuff imaginable -- the kind of trash tactics Dems are used to seeing from the other side.
>>>>>

[cindyw]

4. How is this different than what happened in 2000?

How are the dirty tricks being played by the Dean campaign any different than the campaign run by Nixon in '72?

Anyone remember the laptop stolen from John Kerry that had his campaign strategy on it?

[Donna Zen]

5. Tip of the garbage pail

[jumptheshadow]

38. Your posts have been intriguing

But I know you have good reasons for not going into more detail.

[blm]

6. Trippi's thugs.

Nice guys.

[Padraig18]

7. Be nice to have some proof first, don't you agree?

Or are you more aligned with the 'pre-emptive lynching' crowd? :)

[blm]

13. 275,000 dollars in stolen dinner tickets

comes to mind.

[Padraig18]

15. LOL!

i'd love to see you link the two in a court of law---TRULY I would. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

[blm]

24. I'm not in a court of law - I'm at a Democratic message board where

Democrats usually promote ethical standards for our representatives.

[windansea]

33. yes me too

I hope I am in good company here

[dsc]

58. Yeah like not telling us tales

you don't know are true. BTW it has now been over two months since you claimed Dean had endorsed Jeffords. Still no proof. It has been literally eons since you claimed that Gary Hart declared Howard Dean was unfit to be President still no link. Do you ever have proof for anything you say? Ever?

[blm]

61. I put up the proof on Gary Hart many times.

I could not locate the story about Jeffords.

Why are you attacking me personally, yet again?

Why are you pretending that you never saw the Gary Hart article? Hart has said he doesn't think ANYONE should even run for president unless they are prepared on all issues especially foreign policy.

He said clearly that neither Dean or Lieberman have what it takes in this area. Dean because he no experience. "Gary, what do I do?" and Lieberman because his policy was too much like Bush's.

May 7, 2003

>>>>>>>
While resisting a request to handicap the remaining contenders for the White House, the former Colorado senator offered these observations about some still in the field:
>>>>
Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, lacks crucial defense or foreign policy experience.
Joe Lieberman, U.S. senator and former vice presidential candidate, is making a futile appeal to the "amorphous middle" by parroting Bush policies.
>>>>>
Dean, the former Vermont governor, is so inexperienced on defense and foreign relations that before his first trip to Israel in January, he called Hart and said, "Gary, what do I do?" Hart said.
>>>>
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E64%257E1373786,00.html

[windansea]

22. when the president of ARG says it

I tend to believe him

[cindyw]

23. "pre-emptive"

rule of being a Dean supporter-When all else fails associate the person you are talking to Bush.

[windansea]

40. Dean is ok cuz Nixon did it??

this is a democratic party primary

know the diference??

[Lobo_13]

8. It's difficult to believe

Especially since Dean is doing so well with Independents, that he'd go about just willy nilly telling that segment to stay home.

They can't get the job done fair and square. They tried with their message, didn't work. They tried to bash him, didn't work. Now they've stooped to trying to frame him. Pathetic.

[Padraig18]

9. Isn't it, though?

:puke:

[windansea]

27. puke politics=Dean campaign

Dear Editor in NH

It has come to my attention that senior voters in New Hampshire are being intimidated on their voting rights.

Please assign your best investigative journalist to this matter.

Dick Bennett, president of ARG polling group was quoted today by a highly esteemed democratic activist and writer Josh Marshall as follows:

"This afternoon I spoke to Dick Bennett, president of ARG. And here's what he told me.

On Wednesday evening, ARG interviewers (i.e., the folks who call you on the phone) started noticing that a number of older independent voters were screening themselves out of the survey because they'd been called by another campaign and told that they wouldn't be eligible to vote because they'd missed the deadline to declare as Democrats.

But that's not how New Hampshire law works. Independents (called undeclared voters in the state) can vote in either primary. And they don't have to decide till they're at the polling station."

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Please contact Mr Marshall and Mr Bennett ASAP and report on this matter...I am sure your readers..the voters of New Hampshire...would condem this type of electioneering regardless of who is doing it.

Thank you

concerned voter

[windansea]

52. they??

Josh Marshall??

[KaraokeKarlton]

10. This whole story is a load of BS

Independents and undeclared voters who are registered as such have ALWAYS been allowed to vote in NH primaries. They don't have to change registration to Democratic to vote. Dean has the strongest support among NH Independents, and the campaign staff in NH KNOWS this. Any NH resident registered to vote who wants to vote in the primaries are well aware of the rules.

Think about it folks...If someone is already registered to vote, they are either previous voters who already know the rules or they are people who have been recently registered by canvassers for a campaign who undoubtedly informed them of the rules when they helped them register.

This is a lame attempt to make Dean look bad and I for one am not buying it. Let's use the brain cells we were blessed with, people.

[SahaleArm]

11. Yes, it's a figment of ARG's imagination - Yes it's an anti-Dean ploy...

:eyes:

[dnbmathguy]

12. The deadline has passed for Republicans to change to Dem or Ind

Independents can vote in any primary they so desire. Maybe the caller confused the two?

This is hurting Gephardt's chances; I've talked to lots of NH seniors, and most of them seem to like RAG.

[KaraokeKarlton]

14. Who knows...IF there was even any phone calls to begin with

I work in NH and you should prepare yourself for Gephardt not to have a good showing there. If your primary is later on you should have a back up plan on who is your second and third choice. Not trying to hurt your feelings or anything, but I honestly don't think Gephardt is going to hold on for the duration.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. I take it you didn't

bother to read the article? ARG was calling people for their poll and after NUMEROUS people told them they wouldn't be voting because they had received a phone call from a campaign and were told that since they were "undeclared" voters, they would be ineligible to vote. NH law states that if you are undecided you can declare your party when you go to the polls. ARG pollers had so many of those responses, one of the pollers mentioned it to his/her supervisor....hence the story. These were senior citizens that were disenfranchised. :grr:

[windansea]

17. I am writing a few columnists I know

about this...this is more sleazeball tactics by Trippi

ARG has no reason to lie and invalidate their rep

:grr:

[KaraokeKarlton]

19. I don't believe the article and think it's BS

Here's why...NH is ground zero during presidential primaries. Senior Citizen voters have been voting in NH for a long ass time and they know the rules. Independents and undeclared registered voters can vote in EITHER primary. They don't have to change affiliation and they don't have to claim any affiliation to vote. Independents are the majority in NH...not Democrats and not Republicans. If it were some young kids or still unregistered voters, I might actually believe some campaign might have made calls like this, but to long time NH voters? No way. NH seniors are saavy primary voters and they know the rules.

There was probably ONE anti-Dean person who was called who thought they could start trouble by making this silly claim. Sorry, I work in NH, go there every day, know the people there and this story is a crock.

[windansea]

37. so Josh Marshall

is full of shit??

[tishaLA]

43. That's precisely what those who refuse to believe these reports

would have you believe: that JMM, who has done some of the best reporting out there, is just peddling bullshit. I trust TPM and I believe the story's veracity.

[windansea]

46. right on tisha

I could be wrong but I though Josh was supporting Dean

we certainly can't blame this on RW media

[dnbmathguy]

36. I live in New Hampshire, have volunteered with the campaign since June

And I disagree. I think Gephardt will stick around, and eventually end up beating Dean for the Democratic nomination.

I'm not expecting Gephardt to win NH. I would be thrilled if he did, but the odds are pretty slim. Still, I think he can shock a lot of people by placing in the top three. There are lots of people who I've called who haven't made up their minds just yet.

[SEAburb]

49. this is a rare sight, a Gephardt supporter

I hope you are thick skinned enough to stick around. Gep gets more than his share of abuse around here and could use some defenders.

Anyway welcome to DU.

[windansea]

50. I hope Gep WINS Iowa

good luck

[Ruby Romaine]

18. Please! Wake up, people!

Don't you know republicrooks do dirty tricks from the lowest level to the top?
They are dividing us & if we Democrats buy into it, it will help them reinstall the fake president.

I've seen many a repug dirty trick in my day.
(i don't want to mention what I've seen happen on election day-why give them ideas?)

http://www.hillnews.com/marshall/021903.aspx

http://slate.msn.com/id/2073522/

[windansea]

35. LOL

I'm just hoping we have not become the enemy

[windansea]

20. write your editors!!

This afternoon I spoke to Dick Bennett, president of ARG. And here's what he told me.

On Wednesday evening, ARG interviewers (i.e., the folks who call you on the phone) started noticing that a number of older independent voters were screening themselves out of the survey because they'd been called by another campaign and told that they wouldn't be eligible to vote because they'd missed the deadline to declare as Democrats.

But that's not how New Hampshire law works. Independents (called undeclared voters in the state) can vote in either primary. And they don't have to decide till they're at the polling station.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

this is Josh Marshall talking people

I urge you to write some letters...like today!!

[email protected]

http://www.50states.com/news/vermont.htm

Addison County Independent
Barton Chronicle
Bennington Banner
Brattleboro Reformer
The Burlington Free Press
Business People Vermont
The Caledonian-Record
Deerfield Valley News
Harbor Watch
The Independent
Journal Opinion
The Mountain Times
News & Citizen
Rutland Herald
Saint Albans Messenger
Stowe Reporter
The Times Argus
Valley News
The Valley Reporter
Vermont Life
Vermont Sports
The World

[maddezmom]

29. thanks for the links

:)

[windansea]

21. kick n/t

[WiseMen]

25. My Info: This happening of a very large scale. Only 2 likely explanations

THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING. IT IS NOT SPECULATION.

Pretty easy to conclude on two possible explanations base on these factors:

1. For it to appear in random sample polling means a pretty comprehensive phone database of older indi voters is being thoroughly canvased.

2. Operation must be pretty well financed.

3. Analyses have shown that this group in not likely to break for Dean.

So what are the 2 likely explanations??

Let's just say that any well financed group that wants to assure a Dean big win in NH.

[windansea]

26. yep

I concur and want this blown wide open

targeting seniors is sleazy boileroom politics

[Sean Reynolds]

54. Tell me where it says DEAN is doing this.

I doubt Dean would be doing this because MOST of his support comes from Independents. So why would he be telling his own voting block that they couldn't vote? It doesn't make sense. In fact, one would think it'd be a rival campaign that was doing it to curb Dean's Independent support. Of course I can't prove that, just like you can't prove it was Dean. So while I can toss around wild rumors as to who I think it is, I won't tear down a Democrat until I know for sure.

On edit, I think THIS is telling:

The clear implication of this comment is that someone
from the Dean campaign is making some sort of push-poll trying to depress the turnout of a voting group that leans against Dean (or at least isn't his strongest), i.e., older voters.

A number of readers have asked about this sentence above, believing I'm implicating Dean. I'm not. I'm saying the clear implication of ARG's comment points toward Dean. And I think that's obviously true. That doesn't mean it's clear Dean's behind it. In fact, I suspect it's as likely as not that those who are behind it aren't even Democrats. I'm looking into it.]

Why would Dean risk it? I mean do you think the campaign is that stupid? THIS reminds me of Republican type attacks. Not Democratic.

[WiseMen]

56. No One is saying Dean. But Dean benefits. Older Indi not his if Undecided

[windansea]

60. actually one of the seniors said Dean

"Over the past 2 days of calling, a number of older respondents registered as undeclared voters have reported that they have received telephone calls from a campaign informing them that they will not be allowed to vote in the Democratic primary because they missed the deadline to switch parties. A respondent discovered, however, that when she told the caller that she was thinking about voting for Howard Dean, the caller told her that she would be eligible to vote. "

[funky_bug]

28. Remember Geraldo Rivera?

He said he knew where Hoffa was too. Prove it or lose it.

[windansea]

30. WWF

Mr Bennett (pres of ARG) is not Giraldo....it's very clear from his statements to Josh Marshall that this indeed is happening...and any democrat worth his salt would want to know WHO is doing it

if you care about democracy I urge you to send an email to the editors of some of the following NH newspapers.

http://www.50states.com/news/vermont.htm

[funky_bug]

31. You know I respect you

so I will take your advice and pen a letter. But hear me out...

We take a lot of unfounded criticism here at DU that is directed at Clark. It infuriates us. Why shouldn't we be as concerned when unfounded (or un-linked) attacks are made on other candidates?

It's hard to build a case on "say so", no matter how reputable the source is.

Love ya, windansea... keep chuggin'

[windansea]

32. Josh Marshall's blog is linked

he spoke directly with Bennett..the prez of ARG

Josh Marshall is highly respected and has a lot of credibility

THIS is not a rumor...I want to know who is responsible

read it again

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[funky_bug]

41. I checked out the ARG poll

You were right. They do report that at the end of their poll.

[windansea]

53. and Josh Marshall is on it

inquiring minds want to know

[windansea]

34. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr kick

:kick:

[maxanne]

42. I find it hard to imagine

that this is happening on a large scale. We have a high percentage of older people here, and I haven't heard a thing about this.

I also can't believe the naivete and willful ignorance of my fellow DU'ers. In your haste to believe the worst about a fellow DEMOCRAT, you fail to remember who the real enemy is, and the nasty tricks they are capable of.

In 2002, Martha Fuller Clark was running for the US House. She was way ahead - up in the polls - and then the Republicans began all kinds of nasty stuff. One of their ploys was to have people identifying themselves as Martha's supporters, then gradually start saying really abusive and offensive things to the callers.

Anyone could be making the calls. The fact that some of you are so poisonous and venemous in your hatred for a Democratic candidate that you'd rather blame it on him than even considering the very probable Republican culpability makes me sick.

[windansea]

45. don't worry

we'll find out who's doing it

and expose it for ALL the voters

[RetroLounge]

44. Yes, it was me...

My bad.

What I meant to say was that they can only vote twice if they vote for Dean :)

Hey, I'm from Chicago. You got a problem wid dat?

[windansea]

47. so you support lying to win?

I'm from chicago too...and yes I have a problem with it

[RetroLounge]

48. Hey, lighten up sweetheart, it was a joke.

You remember those?

Was one smiley face not enough for you?

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

[windansea]

51. sorry

I love jokes but this is no laughing matter

:)

[Clark Can WIN]

55. Trippi tactics?

So very hard to believe. <sarcasm off/>

[stickdog]

57. Why is the American Research Group (pollsters) smearing the Dean campaign?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=93666&mesg_id=93666

[TexasSissy]

59. It looks like just a fact reporting paragraph to me.

It's a big story, regardless of which candidate is involved. You're not suggesting they should bury the story because it's your candidate, are you?

If the other candidates' supporters start doing unethical things, those things will be duly reported, as well. As they should be, if they're based on fact. This story was apparently reported by the older voters themselves, way more than just a couple of them.

[democratreformed]

62. Yep, just the facts n/t