Are we Sheep being led to the Slaughter?

[seventhson]

As a Holocaust researcher and lecturer/teacher (I have prepared exhibits and lectures for educators which have traveled around the world, including to Jerusalem, the Hague, and the UN in NYC as well as the US Senate and worked with the History channel on a video exhibit and documentary on this subject) I am truly dusheartened by the lack of understanding here at DU on the significance of the Bush-Nazi history.

Holocaust survivors are suing the Bushes for profits they claim the Buhses made during the Holocaust and almost 85% of people here at DU say that Kerry should not even address the issue.

(See my DU poll at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x899119#900525 )

It is my belief that the conditions of Nazi Germany and the facts surrounding the financing of Hitler BY the Bushes have TREMENDOUS significance today and HUGE historical parallels to that of Nazi Germany in the 1930's. I say this as a student of those times with intimate knowledge of the horrific tidal wave of Naziism's rise in the 1930's.

But many people just do not seem to get it and say it doesn't matter.

But I am extremely fearful for our nation and for democracy. The historical continuity from Hitler to Dubya, from the Swastika to the Double U, is, to me, overwhelmingly clear and more frightening than almost anything I can imagine.

I feel like we are like sheep being led to the slaughter with soft music and lowered lights and just a little high or woozy from our cocktails and prozac.

THAT is why I am so strident.

I am a committed pacifist.

But I am also a committed anti-fascist.

The means to change the world is through education and enlightenment of humanity.

Education of the masses.

But if even at a place like DU the sentiment is that this subject is "old news" and no longer relevant to contemporary politics, I am beginning to feel like the vast majority of us are like blind sheep being led to the slaughter.

The intelligence community knows about this history and yet now the Bush team has eviscerated our intelligence community and twisted it around to ONLY serve the Bushes' financial and political greed.

The whole intelligence apparatus is now totally and corruptly programmed to keep the Bushes and the corrupt corporate interests in power and protected from responsibility or accountability for their crimes against humanity and the mass death they are marketing. And it has a direct correlation and historical continuity from Prescott to GHW to Dubya. And people here are refusing to even see or acknowledge it. (Not everybody, to be sure, 10% here say Kerry should address it head on and SAVE us from the Bushes)

Now it all gets worse and worse day by day. Patriot II. The Draft of teenage females and males as well as older "specialists" Back-door draftas amounting to a slave army. Taps on our phone and a spook at the library.

I become AFRAID to speak in part for fear of Kerry losing and the mire then closing over my head and the heads of all those I love suffocating us and eliminating freedom and peace forever.

It is happening folks. If we lose in November we will all suffer because in reality the Bushes ARE the Nazis and always have been.

THEY won WWII and we let them. America and the world lost the war with Hitler and his backers.

I sure as hell Kerry and Edwards had the courage to call these fascists what they really are.

I have no doubt their wives would if they were the candidates instead of the men.

There is NOTHING safe in appeasing the right or the rightwing voters.

We need to confront them with the history and the facts and bang the resistance drums so loudly that Bush is swallowed in a ladslide of protest in November.

But some prefer to march on submissively and quietly and without a word of truth to upset anyone.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. Education of the masses.<<

Yes yes yes..... excellent post.... but what pisses me off is that these morons are given a microphone... and all they continue to do is "de-educate" the masses and turn them into morons. Thank god this country is evenly split... otherwise we would be in even deeper shit than we already are.... great post... great great great.....

[seventhson]

2. Thanks! We will know in only a few precious weeks whether the insanity

and mindless barbarity will continue or whether there is any hope left for America as a shining city on the hill.

I think my fears are just geared up and the traumatic stress and anticipation of retraumatization from election 2000 are engaged.

But I appreciate knowing that I am not alone.

I KNOW I am not alone.

But if they open the camps for those of us who hav3e been most vocal that will not be a very comforting knowledge. I will know TOO that the righteous and good are being tortured and killed as we have seen for the last four years and many other years under Bush "leadership"

I am afraid.

And I want MY leaders (Kerry and Edwards and Gore) to say SOMETHING about this. Otherwise I am afraid they, too, are blind sheep. Or are unconsciously or naively complicit,

[LittleClarkie]

7. I understand the importance

But the thing at this point is to get Kerry elected.

And the problem is that you can be perfectly correct about what someone is doing, and sound perfectly nuts trying to explain it. Witness the neo-con agenda.

We don't want the masses discounting the story of Bush/Nazis as just one more smear. That will make it harder to get the story out, ever. It will become one of those shadowy things that certain people believe and others discount as paranoid partisanship.

It is an important story, but not for the campaign. We will need to try and get it out when the Right Wing has less of a stranglehold on the media. Do you realize what they would do to a story like that at this point?

I hold out hope that if Kerry is elected, then the fascist aura of the media will start to fade. We need to get the Rove machine out of office first.

Does that make any sense? I know it's got to be frustrating. But I don't think anyone here is saying it's NOT an important story. But it's also not a good campaign tool for the moment. It would just blow the top off of two many heads, and then they'd stop listening altogether. People are already numb as it is this campaign season.

Anyway, God bless you. We won't forget.

[cheshire]

3. In law you may not bring in prior crimes let along your families. I'm not

sure what your saying is different, As far as Kerry bring this up. Is this info available online and how do you get this info out to those who can't or refuse to find out the truth.

[seventhson]

6. You most ceretainly CAN bring in prior crimes - especially if the crime is

part of a conspiracy or a coverup and especially if it shows a pattern or practice of behavior.

Ib this case the crime by Dubya is his partticipation in a continuing criminal enterprise and conspiracy wherein millions were and many more ARE being killed for profit.

I agree that Dubya may not be accountable for treason with the Nazis, but he sure as hell can be accused of treason for his dealings with the Saudis and the Bin Ladens in a joint conspiracy with his father.

The fact that the crimianl entrerpirse goes back to Prescott and Hitler is CERTAINLY admissible evidence in a war crimes, crimes against humanity or a racketeering and conspoiracy prosecution.

Here is the link to the article on Bushes and Nazis:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00....

[LittleClarkie]

8. This is why I'm glad that Kerry brought up the Saudis

In his last speech and that he would hold them accountable. He got an ovation for that, I believe.

[napi21]

4. I agree with you, except you can't put this message in 30 secs.

I'm ashamed to say that most voters in the US get all their info from 30 Sec. ads and media sound bites. I don't, and most people here on DU don't either, but listen to some of the focus groups. I just listened to one on cspn today. People just repeat what they've heard on TV.

I have no idea how you can possibly get all this info even heard by a lot of people, let alone convince them that you're right.

People have been lulled into a comfort zone and even after 9/11, most people just don't feel there are any major problems. They're doing OK...not great, but OK.

Until the majority are deeply affected by what's happening in this country, I just don't see that attitude changing.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. The slaughter's been a long time coming

Back in the '30s, industrialists with fascist sympathies with names like DuPont and Morgan sponsored a coup against Roosevelt. Then in the '40s, men with names like Bush, Dulles, Favish and Rockefeller traded strategic goods with the enemy, possibly prolonging the war and costing American lives.

Worse still for the health of the State, following the war Project Paperclip saw Nazis virtually co-found the "National Security State," bringing their advanced technology and criminal medical research to America.

And something else.

From Jane's editor Nick Cook's excellent The Hunt for Zero Point:

"When the Americans tripped over this mutant strain of nonlinear physics and took it back home with them, they were astute enough to realize that their home-grown scientific talent couldn't handle it. That it was beyond their cultural term of reference. That's why they recruited so many Germans. The Nazis developed a unique approach to science and engineering quite separate from the rest of the world, because their ideology, unrestrained as it was, supported a wholly different way of doing things. Von Braun's V-2s are a case in point, but so was their understanding of physics. The trouble was, when the Americans took it all home with them they found out, too late, that it came infected with a virus. You take the science on, you take on aspects of the ideology, as well."

I think what we're seeing in this administration is the final triumph of the virus, and the death of the host.

Fighting the Cheney/Bush cabal cannot be politics as usual. America and the world are confronted with a radical evil: an apotheosis of the Nazi-tainted National Security State, and the culmination of a generational drift towards the dark vision of men named DuPont, Morgan, Dulles and Bush.

[seventhson]

9. I could not have said it better

I try but I just don't seem to communicate well on this subject with those who prefer to be ostriches.

[Minstrel Boy]

12. Nazis are thought to be "ancient history"

by people with no sense of history. They seem far away and long ago. It must sound like hearing Bush accused of being a Viking.

But they're still with us. That is, with Bush.

When a number of senior members of George HW Bush's 1988 campaign team were revealed to be old school Nazis and Nazi sympathizers it generated something of a media flap - Pete Hamill titled a New York Post column "George Bush and his fascist fan club" - but the scandal is little remembered today.

Here's some of Bush's team:

Radi Slavoff, GOP Heritage Council's executive director, and head of "Bulgarians for Bush." Slavoff was a member of a Bulgarian fascist group, and he put together an event in Washington honoring Holocaust denier, Austin App.

Florian Galdau, director of GOP outreach efforts among Romanians, and head of "Romanians for Bush." Galdau was once an Iron Guard recruiter, and he defended convicted Nazi war criminal Valerian Trifa.

Nicholas Nazarenko, leader of a Cossack GOP ethnic unit. Nazarenko was an ex-Waffen SS officer.

Method Balco, GOP activist. Balco organized yearly memorials for a Nazi puppet regime.

Walter Melianovich, head of the GOP's Byelorussian unit. Melianovich worked closely with many Nazi groups.

Bohdan Fedorak, leader of "Ukrainians for Bush." Fedorak headed a Nazi group involved in anti-Jewish wartime pogroms.

Nice crowd Poppy keeps.

[seventhson]

13. Y'Know, Minstrelboy, all fo this info on the Nazis working for GHWBush

and the Republican party (especially when GHWBush was head of the Republican Party (under Nixon) and BEFORE he became Ambassador to China and head of the CIA) is in John Loftus's book "The Secret War Against the Jews"

Loftus, a Catholic, makes the important point that to these fascists we are ALL Jews. We are ALL their enemy and worthy of extermination.

That is why the fact that the Bushes have KEPT their power as well as their Nazi ties CONTINUOUSLY for over 70 years (with the same ruthless goals of global Aryan hegemony and subjugation of inferior races) is SO troubling to me.

AND that they would use the methodologies of Naziism - guantanamo, suffocation of rights, the evisceration and disembowelling of the Constitution, intolerance hate and mass murder, abu Ghraib --- just gives me the nauseous willies and terrible trepidation.

Imagine if YOU had a Crystal ball in 1932 and could see what was to come in the next ten-fifteen years under Hitler.
Now imagine that you are a Jew or a left wing writer or activist living in Berlin. Or Munich.

Do you fight or flee? or both? or neither?

and what do you tell those who are blind to the truth and to the future?

[bobbieinok]

23. this statement doesn't make any sense

real science is not bound to any one ideology; if V-2s work, are real science, you simply don't take on aspects of an ideology

"...The Nazis developed a unique approach to science and engineering quite separate from the rest of the world, because their ideology, unrestrained as it was, supported a wholly different way of doing things. Von Braun's V-2s are a case in point, but so was their understanding of physics. The trouble was, when the Americans took it all home with them they found out, too late, that it came infected with a virus. You take the science on, you take on aspects of the ideology, as well."


NOTE: I would appreciate comments from physicists about the validity of the quoted claim.

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. Dulles?

You leave my family out of it?
Sorry. There could scarcely be a more serious subject.

[smiley_glad_hands]

10. The media will never allow you to make the bush-nazi connection.eom

[hippiechick]

11. Simply put:

Maw and Paw Voter would look at any mention by the Kerry's campaign of a Bush/Nazi connection - real or imagined - as sour grapes and move on to the next section of the newspaper.

They don't want to, or dont have the time to, intellectually engage in matters historical and 'connect those dots' to how family ties/ interests/decisions of 60+ years ago shape an empire's direction.

All they would take the time to assimilate is 'that Liberal whacko Kerry is callin' our President a Nazi.'

Sorry, but that's just how it is.

[seventhson]

14. I think that is frankly baloney. I think we are smarter than that.

I think that if members of "the greatest generation" - WWII vets, and baby boomers and Jews and generration X and kids coming up today HEARD Kerry say: I think this is the most troubling thing I have EVER heard. I think people need to hear it and know it and FACE it:

I think THAT would sway the electorate because FINALLY the truth about Bush would be crystal clear. And we would have a leader who was TELLING the truth.

And frankly, I believe that UNLESS the Kerry campaign confronts Bush with these historical truths, then we are in deep trouble in November. I think, given the gravity of the evil and their willingness to stoop to any corrupt lengths to steal this election, we are ALREADY at a significant disadvantage.
We are ALREADY in deep trouble.

NOT because Kerry is not the better man or the better candidate or even the one with the most support --- but BECAUSE the Bushes and Cheney ARE Nazis who will lie cheat and steal and generally pull any murderous and immoral stunt in the book to WIN and HOLD their corrupt regime.


Refusing to face it and address it may well be fatal to Kerry's campaign.

Mark my words.

If we lose in November, remember that I said we SHOULD have fucking been in the streets DEMANDING that people know the truth and that Kerry call a Nazi spade a Nazi spade.

I am just so sickened by the failure to root out the Nazis in our midst who are like invisible and murderous fiends pulling the strings and preparing to tighten the garrotte of piano or razor wire aroud our necks.

[foo_bar]

15. Bush isn't literally a Nationalsozialistische

Semiotically he's the opposite: he sends jobs overseas, oppresses his own people, then goes on to lose a drawn-out war.

We are nationalists because as Germans, we love Germany. Because we love Germany, we want to preserve it and fight against those who would destroy it. If a Communist shouts "Down with nationalism!", he means the hypocritical bourgeois patriotism that sees the economy only as a system of slavery. If we make clear to the man of the left that nationalism and capitalism, that is the affirmation of the Fatherland and the misuse of its resources, have nothing to do with each other, indeed that they go together like fire and water, then even as a socialist he will come to affirm the nation, which he will want to conquer.

We are socialists because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces.

- Goebbels and Mjolnir (the original Hammer?), 1932
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/haken32.htm

[seventhson]

18. Well the Bush-Hitlers sent jobs to Poland (the death camps)

they oppressed their own people and then went on to lose a long drawn out war.

They seem pretty much the same to me.

Hitler cared ONLY for power. He cared not one wit for the German people. Just as Bush cares not one wit for us or for anyone but himself.

[foo_bar]

22. Nazism and war profiteering are different subjects

albeit compatible ones (is my Krups coffee machine a nazi? etc.)

Bush is the spiritual descendent of Nero. Nepotistic appointment, puppeteer mother, hated the Senate, waited 7 minutes as Rome burned, compensated by razing Judea to make it a province.

[AuntPatsy]

16. Maybe this could help...

http://www.bushflash.com/faith.html

[seventhson]

17. This type of thing helps a LOT! Thanks. A Must see.

very apt

[HysteryDiagnosis]

24. Now you see.... this less than 1 megabyte... would fit on a floppy

You can often get floppies for PENNIES. Too bad Bushflash has not offered a download of these presentations that can shake people out of their stupor. Imagine if you had 5 or 10 of these and could put them on floppies, or mini-cds.... imagine the reaction you would get by mailing a few to friends and relatives. They are POWERFUL.

If I were Bushflash.... I would put them on CD, make them available for a dollar or so.... and rake it in. I know I would buy many. These flash presentations are awesome... and they should receive wider distrubution. Move-On should cut a deal with them... offer to distribute them... put a link on their homepage.... this stuff is powerful and has the capacity to change minds and open eyes.

I hope someone will take a serious look at this thought. Today.

[Kimber Scott]

19. The sins of the father...

I don't know. It's risky considering Bush's own sins are above reproach.

[Nevernose]

20. It's an issue of pragmatism

Kerry shouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. They managed to turn things like Vietnam/draft dodging back on him, marginalizing the truth. Another point the Bushes have been making is that "Vietnam was 35 years ago, it doesn't matter now" -- so what would they do to Kerry "ranting" about Nazi support from 1930-1942?

Crucify him, that's what they's do.

Kerry shouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole (or should that be that "poll?"). There are an infinite number of potential 527s, though. No t o mention the attention that bloggers and articles such as the recent Guardian piece can stir up. There are other ways of drawing attention to the Nazi fact that will not draw as much political heat; it's too easy for the Republican machine to eat Kerry up and spit him out, at least on this issue.

I've never been one big into conspiracy theories, but in the last few years I've come to realize that what the Bush family and PNAC want is a Fourth Reich, pure and simple. The PNACers idolize the fascist Nazi fucks, and think the world would have been a much better place if Hitler had won.

[Wind Dancer]

21. I share the same concerns you do and have

been trying to enlighten others that this administration is showing many of the same signs as Hitler prior to his rise to full power. Many people don't comprehend what I am mean.

We need to do something, mass mailings, fliers on windshields, progressive churches, etc. Like you, I am very frightened.

Congratulations on your dedication to research, teaching and displaying your work throughout the world.

[lostnfound]

25. Media spin would swallow JK whole before he could BEGIN to convince people

No matter how it is brought up, the first 30 seconds he mentions * and Nazi in the same sentence, the soundbyte would be played and completely overwhelmed with LOUD and FRANTIC media pundits claiming that he'd lost his mind, he's extremist, he's a hate-mongerer, he's anti-American, he's making a mockery of the suffering of all who died in the Holocaust, he's desparate, etc. etc.

I agree with what you are saying, but the media spin machine is too fast and too overwhelming.