Should A Presidential Candidate Being A Dry Drunk Be An Issue?

[KittyWampus]

I sincerely don't know how I feel about someone who never confronted his addictions holding the highest office in the land.

There is a big difference between those who have entered recovery and are surrounded by people who are openly honest about the situation... and someone who has never actually faced their own weakness.

Is this a valid issue?

No matter what policies we talk about. If said candidate isn't stabilized emotionally, their judgement and behavior are almost certainly in question.

[Jack_Dawson]

1. What's a DD?

You're either drunk or you're not, right?

[Vincardog]

2. A Dry Drunk is not drinking But The Shrub is INSANE

[fugue]

4. Not that simple

See this: http://www.counterpunch.org/wormer1011.html

It introduced the concept to me.

[jmowreader]

10. "Dry Drunk" is an AA term

In the 12-step realm, there are five basic kinds of people.

First are those who need no help. In Alcoholics Anonymous parlance, they'd be the casual drinkers who can keep it under control. For one of the dope groups, it would be someone who doesn't use.

Next are people who are starting to have a problem.

Then you have people who are In Trouble. They're alcoholics who still drink, heroin addicts who still shoot up, cocaine addicts who still snort.

You next have two kinds of people who've put it down: twelve-steppers and dry drunks. A twelve-stepper is a member of the Church of Too Much Fun, whichever branch it may be. They are called this because all Anonymous programs have twelve steps to recovery--the first being to admit that you're fucked up. The dry drunk has stopped drinking but has never sought help with his addiction. This is Bush in a nutshell.

Bush's being a dry drunk is worrisome. If he was a twelve-stepper, he would have something or someone to fall back on when the old addictions started calling. Because he's not in any of those groups, that half-gallon jug of Bacardi in the desk drawer is all he has to fall back on.

[Jack_Dawson]

19. If he's drinking Bacardi, he's back to drinking, no?

I don't mean to be a Red State simpleton thinker here, but I still don't get it.

[Doohickie]

22. I really hate to take *'s side, but...

...I think you assume too much about the man. People can get support outside of 12-Step programs. He is in a stable marriage; I know that my wife is a great source of support for me. The guy also is surrounded by his cabinet and advisors. I suspect that at least some of them can be confided in and are aware of his specific situation.

The guy worries me. And maybe even alcohol is part of the reason why. But I haven't seen enough evidence to say that he has a current alcohol problem. It could be that, but it could be lots of other things too. Could be just the wear and tear of the job. It seems like every president ages 10 years during a 4 year term.

I think on this one, we don't have enough information and we should extend the guy a little charity.

Now, the war, the economy, the corporate scandals & cronyism- go ahead and nail him on those.

[redstateblues]

3. Kind Of a Tough Sell To Criticize Someone Who Quit

The fact that they quit is a plus- one of Bush's only ones

[Vincardog]

5. He says he quit have you notices how he falls all the time?

[dammit905]

7. Well, except that there are videos of him obviously inebriated with

alcohol in hand long after he claimed to have quit cold turkey. Not saying he isn't sober NOW, and I do admire his overcoming the disease. But doing it the Macho Bush way is not a healthy, stable way to quit. It can lead, for example, to extremo-fundamentalist Christianity.

[KittyWampus]

8. If You Haven't Gone Through The Process Of Recovery- You Aren't Really

"over the disease".

Edit: actually, if you get to the point of addiction... you are never really over the disease.

You hopefully get to the point where you can manage it.

[sr_pacifica]

17. Alcoholism is more than drinking in excess

There's lots of "stinking thinking" as AA puts it. Anyone who has had an addiction problem and anyone who has lived with someone who has had a drinking problem has messed up behavior and habitual dysfunctional thinking (Oh, THAT'S his problem!!) 12-step is basically a kind of group therapy that stresses responsibility for one's actions and reliance on a higher power (not necessarily the God of Judeo-Christianity, just some source of wisdom higher than oneself).

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. My doctor

says he's a dry drunk and that that is one reason she isn't voting for him (and she's a Republican).

[wickywom]

9. ummm ... yes

especially if the lord speaks to you and you are the masster of the united states armed forces....

[mikehiggins]

11. Of course it is. I'm amazed no one has pounded him on it yet EXCEPT

it might look like kicking an asshole while he's down.

Which I'm not really opposed to, except it looks bad for the kicker.

On the other hand, if he has gotten in touch with his "higher power" (does money count?) maybe he's allright.

Just like a child molester, though, a dd is always just one frustration-too-many away from Jack Daniels.

(for my Mason buddies, dd in this context does not mean District Deputy; a dry drunk is a guy--or woman--who is not actively drinking but has done nothing or very little in the way of dealing with the underlying consequences of his alcoholism)

[yardwork]

12. No. It's performance that counts - and shrubs is horrible

A person's health is their own business unless it begins to affect other people in a detrimental way. As citizens of the United States, we are the president's employers. It is our responsibility to assess the president's performance and determine who to elect every four years.

Shrub's performance has been abysmal. That is the only real issue. Problems with his character and/or health are only relevant insofar as they shed light on his behavior now.

Also, since the shrub White House has been so secretive and dishonest, we've had to dig a little to figure out what they are really doing. That's where previous wrongdoing becomes especially important as a clue to what shrubby is doing now. Lied back then, lies now.

If shrubby were doing an excellent job as president during the past four years I wouldn't give a damn what he did back in 1970 and I wouldn't give a damn what substances he was putting in his nose now.

Shrubby gets a failing grade. He's fired.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

13. Who says he's dry?

:shrug:

[KittyWampus]

15. Just For Arguments Sake

who really knows, except the hand-holders?

[Annette]

14. Funny

I almost posted this article yesterday, but I didn't have the nerve, didn't know what people would say. Thank you for posting it.

[ItsMyParty]

16. The valid part is that we don't actually know if he is a dry one or a wet

one. The cocaine at Camp David suggests that there was no 'conversion' at age 40. In fact, isn't it just a little too bullshit pat to have this nice timeline ready for the press to explain away a person who was known to be a drunk (among other things)?? Too coincidental as they prepped him for public office. According to one poster here, her friend was a date a DC party where Bush attended and he was drinking heavily. Said that it isn't any secret in DC that he's back drinking...or never stopped.

[Hanzo72]

18. nope

I don't think it's an issue. If Bush were getting smashed I think it would have been leaked out by now and made an issue, I think he's cleaned himself up. And things like substance abuse or petty theft in the past shouldn't really factor into a decision for any candidate, I don't think.

[Dookus]

20. there's no such thing as a dry drunk

it's just a term of derision used by AA to insult people who get sober without joining their cult.

[jakefrep]

21. Doesn't this...

...sort of quash the idea that W is "somebody you could sit down and have a beer with?"