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How far right do you think this party can go and still expect progressive support?

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:46 AM
Original message
How far right do you think this party can go and still expect progressive support?
I think, in hindsight, that most if not all of us would agree that the Clinton campaign went TOO far right in '92 and that we must never let a candidate do that again.

But what, to you, is the "this far and no further" point?

(this thread is not specifically about the healthcare vote...it's a general question)

Related question:

Which groups can be legitimately thrown under the bus and for what purposes without the party losing the right to even ask people on the left to vote for it?

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. "progressive" is the new word for "centrist", more or less, these days
Bush was such a fucked president that he chased anti-taxers, anti-choicers, and pro-war hawks right into the big tent to jumble up the whole spectrum again.

So, anyway, it seems to mean next to nothing these days. I think former identifiers should just let the DLC keep parading it around and adopt "socialist", being that there is a firm dictionary definition behind that one. The residual effects of the Red Scare just make it more fun.

And, uh, not much further right at all, I suppose. Comrade.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. They are maxed out IMHO.
It's turning to a matter of who hasn't been tossed under the bus yet.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. At this point, the only ones are the First Daughters and the dog
n/t.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
4.  right-wing dominance of the Republican Party by default empowers the right-wing of the Democratic P
Party.

It is a simple reality that aside from a few isolated progressive enclaves - when Democratic voters don't turn out - Republicans win and the current Republican Party is dominated by absolute batshit crazy right-wing extremist who are so extreme - that they do in fact still manage to make even conservative-corporate sycophantic Democrats look moderate or even relatively progressive in comparison.

The vast majority of Progressives are still going to suck it up and vote Democratic as long as Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck and people who think like them lead the only other political force capable of gaining control of the government.

This cruel reality will keep most progressives in line. I can only imagine one plausible scenario in which many progressives might desert the party and withdraw their support from President Obama. If The Democratic Party were to become or seen to become equally or more the party of war than the Republicans - for example if President Obama was pushed into a military attack on Iran - or engaged in some other massive military undertaking beyond anything currently being discussed - then I suspect progressive support would quickly evaporate and the Democratic Party would quickly become unelectable on a national level.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. They're already to the right of the voters.
The people want government health insurance and legal weed, but it doesn't mean shit to elected democrats.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. How far? As far right as Jefferson.
Related answer:
What groups should be thrown under the bus would be any group... that favors their ideology over democracy.

Regressives that favor failed anti-democratic ideologies of the 19th, or 20th, century, for example, aren't exactly moving forward.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. Judging From DU...
as far as they want to go.

Trillions in aid to bankers, wet kisses to insurers, and mostly finger-wagging lectures for the rest of us, yet most at DU seem perfectly happy with it all.

Clinton de-regulated the banks, but Obama has done zero to re-regulate - and that's mighty fine to most on DU.

Amazing.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/17/politics/main...

Please make sure your statements are actual facts, the internet makes it easy to spot lies.
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. How much are they paying you to throw your integrity in the ditch, kitten?
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I get nothing.
When lies are thrown at me, that a single google search can prove false, I provide a URL.

What's your pay-scale like?
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. What "lies" would those be?
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. "Obama has done zero to re-regulate"
Easily dis-provable with a single URL.
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Are you trying to quote me? Because I didn't say that. You're confusing me with another poster.
Or LYING as you would say.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. You're right.
"MannyGoldstein" made the lie, you defended it.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. But When The Rubber Meets The Road... Zilch
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 07:21 AM by MannyGoldstein
e.g., http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=a8n...

Are you *actually* expecting the admin to say they're against regulation? Of course not! Rather, they are for regulation, but strangely against any *specific* regulation.

When have they proposed returning Glass-Steagal? Did I miss something? Instead, they've marginalized those who accurately foretold what would happen - Volker, Krugman, Stiglitz, and that crowd - and instead rely on Wall Street shills with hideous track records like Summers, Geithner, and Emanuel to set fiscal policy. The foxes are guarding the hen house - insane!

Bottom line: one year out from the worxt financial catastrophe in generation, in which bankers were saved and stunningly rewarded with your tax dollars and mine, we have zero changes to prevent a repeat - in fact, they are back to doing the same perilous crap thanks to $13 trillion in taxpayer-backed loan guarantees.

When a single piece of actual legislation makes it into law, give me a call. We're a year into this, with nothing real on the table except more staggering banker bailouts. Until something actual happens, I'll file this in the same folder as the repeal of DADT and the rest.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
30. As long as the president looks fetching in his bathing suit, it doesn't matter
what he actually does or doesn't do.

That is the fan mentality that has taken over this place.
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. They've lost me.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. judging from a lot of DUers, really really far
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Wow, well that is a nice way of looking at Obama's supporters.
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 06:41 AM by Jennicut
:eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProleNoMore Donating Member (316 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
18. The Democratic Party Lost Me In 2004 - Now A Progressive Independent
eom
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I just began the re-registration process as a member of the now existent
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 05:33 AM by bluetrain
No Bullshit Party

We'll see if they let me keep that...

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ProleNoMore Donating Member (316 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I Like The NBS Party - Don't Think That Is An Option In Upstate NY
eom
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. Right left center...I think you miss the point.
By and large this party has been bought out by the corporations. Right and left don't matter, what matters is what the corporations want at any given time, because their bought and paid for toads in Congress do the bidding of their campaign donars, not the bidding of the voters.

What we've seen with the heath care reform is that we have gone from expecting people and corporations to make sound financial choices about their financial risk management to the people being mandated to guarantee profitability, and million dollar bonuses, to insurance corporations.

Democracy has been reduced to a shell in support of the great ponzi scheme of free-rein capitalism. The corporations have control and they are exercising it. What next is probably sweeping nepotism to insure the heritability of priviledged money positions. When that wave is completed, we will have that balanced feudal social system of boyars, kulaks and serfs.

It will produce great art, literature, shining cities and empires and the boyars will marvel at the fruitfulness of their system.









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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. +1
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. I think that we're about to find out
If this health care bill passes essentially as is, I think that lots of people will abandon the party and go Green.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
26. imo progressives will engage in primary challenges in 2010 and 2012. nt
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
28. Apparently, opposing gay marriage isn't too far.
Don't know.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
29. If you think Clinton went too far right,
I hope you notice that Obama is shifting the party farther and faster.

How far? The party has gone too far already, imo.

Pandering to health insurance companies and calling it "health care reform."

Escalating war.

Escalating the privatization of public education.

Just to start.

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