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Where was all the hue and cry about mandates during the primary?

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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 07:57 PM
Original message
Where was all the hue and cry about mandates during the primary?
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 08:00 PM by msallied
Did mandates suddenly stop being cool when Hillary Clinton and/or John Edwards (who both backed mandates from the very beginning) failed to become President?

For the record, I never much cared for mandates. Not then or now. I don't like that people are using them as tools to either prop up or take someone down politically. But I'm sick of seeing the histrionics regarding their use and implementation. They are nothing new. I have a mandate to purchase car insurance. I have a mandate to have insurance on my house. I'm open-minded enough to see why mandates are being considered for health insurance as well, even if I might not completely agree with the concept. There are more reasons behind mandates than "evil government giving handouts to evil corporations." I'm just tired of seeing people wig out about mandates when some of the VERY SAME PEOPLE doing so backed candidates who had them as part of their own health care plans.

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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good question. I think we both know the answer. nt

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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Are you required to own a car? A house?
One of the reasons I supported Obama's health plan was that because *unlike* Hillary's plan, coverage was optional, not required.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well, that's one reason I liked it too, I'll admit.
And I'm disappointed to see them resurface, albeit not surprised. Apparently they're popular.

And yeah, for all practicality's sake, I am required to own a car.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. What do you do when the car is in the shop?
I ask for two reasons:

1) A great many people who think they "require" a car do not actually need a car.
2) Using a car, for even a four block trip, has really messed up American health.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. My family has paid, in rent, the amount of money to buy 6 houses with 4+ BR.
Honestly a house mandate would fucking rock. ;)

(The reason we've been renters is our credit has never been good and we have always had to live month by month.)
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. And the flip side?
The people who had "histrionics" over mandates DURING the primaries, but now are perfectly willing to defend their implementation because they no longer hate the person/people who are promoting them?

Where's the outrage about THAT little snippet of hypocrisy?

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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. That is also hypocritical. But when you're handed something you didn't ask for.
Sometimes the best way to go about it is to find out exactly what it's all about before dismissing it as a pile of shit. Now I have had to go back and re-examine the pros and cons of mandates because, like it or not, I will very likely end up having to live with one. Whereas in the course of selecting candidates, when things are up in the air, I think it is FAR more hypocritical to support a candidate who backs mandates and then, when that person DOESN'T win and mandates end up being part of the health care package, point fingers and call that person an evil corporatist for having them there.

What would they have done if Hillary had won and the same HCR bill had come through? They'd probably be doing what the rest of us are trying to do. Make sense out of the whole thing and maybe fucking learn something.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I hear ya.....eom
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oh, The High Drama on DU of Late...
Lately here...

"To die, to sleep,

To die, to sleep,

Aye there's the rub!

For in that sleep of death what dreams may come...."


It's just a friggin' bill...imperfect...but just a bill...

I am glad just "to be" (rather than "not to be") with the reversal of the pre-existing condition thing.








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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. "I have a mandate to have insurance on my house"
Isn't that stipulated in a private, not public, mortgage contract? Is there a public mandate on home insurance when you aren't in a mortgage contract? Not as far as I am aware.

Were you mandated to buy that home? Were you mandated to purchase the car that you must insure? Those are all choices. Your examples fall flat.

Can you name one instance where you are forced, as an individual, by your government, to engage in a specific type of commerce and purchase a product in a marketplace?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. You conveniently are leaving out a big part of the narrative
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 10:10 PM by dsc
Both Hillary and Edwards supported a public option, true. But they also both supported a public option. I have no problem with the mandate if, and only if, there is a public option to go with it. Currently that is the case with the House and might well not be with the Senate. On edit, I do have to say it is rather annoying to see my candidate beaten up in the primary for this position only to see Obama decide that mandates are an OK idea after all. Kind of reminicent of when the elder Bush said no new taxes to devastating impact to Dukakis only to embrace taxes when it was convenient for him to do so.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Mandates would be easier to accept
if there were a Medicare for all type option and strict regulations on private insurance. The house bill includes neither.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Exactly.
If you get something substantial in return, mandates are acceptable. Mandates without any meaningful benefits for others which is what we're apparently going to get? No.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. If you're not single payer (mandates) then mandates in other forms are preferable. We shut up...
...because whenever mandates are mentioned we get flamed to fuck and back. Krugman got thrown under the bus big time over mandates even though every study done showed that they were superior to opt-in methods. (Simply because irresponsible people are going to not opt-in and fuck everyone elses rates up.)

Single payer is still the best option, and something we desire, but if you're going to argue we can't get single payer (we probably could if we actually pushed for it, hard; it is the most cost effective solution, period), then we at least say "give us a mandate" and a "strong public option."
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. Sssshhhh! That was when Hillary was proposing them, so they were OK!
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
16. I still don't like mandates
because they are unnecessary and just reduce the economic power of insurance consumers, but I will tolerate them as long as there is a public option.

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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
17. I'm not that cool with mandates. However I understand their purpose...
I hated more the hefty fines for not having it---that's what's pissing me off and what bothered me a great deal with the HRC move. Hefty penalties for not signing on.
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