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Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:09 PM
Original message
Curious what has Kucinich accomplished toward the progressive
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 04:11 PM by Kdillard
Agenda to render him immune from criticism.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kucinich is right on the issues 100% of the time.
You can't hold him responsible for his colleagues lack of integrity.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. No, he's hasn't always been.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
56. I am sure I could find lots of people that disagree with that statement
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 02:33 AM by Egnever
Hell I disagree with that statement. He was wrong last night.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
62. Nearly 100%.
I would question his opposition to this bill, too, but it seems to be based on a principled stance. Us usual.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
65. What does 'being right' have to do with fighting and accomplishing?
Ted Kennedy was right on most things, but he fought for and accomplished many things for working and middle class peoples.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. He shouldn't be immune to criticism...But irrational responses to some very good points is sad
I wonder how many who accuse him of "purity" and nefarious motives have actually read and digested his actual stated reasons for voting no.

Agree or disagree with him. Like him or loathe him. Or whatever in between. Fine

But it is sad to see some of the knee jerk attacks on him simply because he chose not to support a bill that he (and many others) consider counterproductive by further entrenching a rotten system.

It would be refreshing if some of the attackers would at least consider and calmly discuss the points he raises.
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Dennis has a voice among a group of democrats
on the ground democrats. They agree with his positions, and are rather vocal. Do you want them to shut up? That's not very constructive.

Dennis can now encourage this group to bend the ears of the Senate in favor of his position - I assume that would be related to his amendment. I don't know what the numbers and potential trade-offs look like in the Senate ATM - but there's a chance. There are also fewer ears to reach in the upper body. It's worth a shot.

His record isn't 100%, BTW. He voted for the war in Afghanistan. You don't bomb women and children to apprehend a handful of thugs. I'm assuming he had really bad information.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. No politician should be immune from criticism.
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 04:21 PM by bigwillq
Dennis is a progressive voice, and I wish we had more people like him in Congress that speak up like he has. He has a spine. He has balls. Speaking one's mind for the causes, beliefs and policies that I believe in is very important to me.

Voting record, and other information
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=318

On the issues
http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

Of course, Google is your friend! :P :)
He's not perfect, neither is his record. But no one's is. But Dennis continues to fight for what I strongly believe in.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. He's done nothing but provide a platform for self-righteous do-nothing losers
It's a useful skill, but it ends in fairly little other than a feeling of satisfied superiority.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Because he voted his conscience? Because he stood his ground?
Isn't that what we want the Congress to do, rather than side with what's politically expedient? He told us why he did this, and it wasn't for any of the asinine reasons the Republicans gave. No. I wish there were 100 more Democrats like him.

It was a tough vote for a lot of people who voted either way. If the bill was 90% of what we wanted, I could see your point. But it wasn't even close. It took guts to do what he did.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Like I said
Self-righteous nonsense.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No worse than centrist "pragmatic" self-righteous nonsense
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Ha
Never been accused of THAT before.

Centrist! :rofl:

That's too rich!
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. you DLC corporocrat bankster lover, you!11!11!!!
:evilgrin:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. I'm well to the left of half these cretins
As even a cursory look at my posting history would suggest.

The point is not to become a useful idiot to the other side. Sheesh. If Kucinich is their version of leftism, it's no wonder WE on the left are in the wilderness on virtually everything.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. i know. i was kiddin ya
:hi:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Oh, I know
Just spoutin' off.

:-)
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. obama may promise people ponies, but dennis brings the unicorn man
that's heavy.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Good point about his
usefullness.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. not everyone that thinks kucinich is a do-nothing grandstander is a centrist.
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 08:03 PM by dionysus
i mean really, the guy hasn't acomplished jack shit in office.

he has good principles, talks a great game... accomplishes nothing.
:shrug:
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
53. I can't argue with that assessment except for....
the knee jerk dismissal of his positions that so many express.

On most issues, IMO he makes a great amount of sense. And I consider myself to be a moderate progressive.His positions are not some flaky far left utopian dream, but what were once considered mainstream bread and butter liberalism.

Despite his personal flaws,what is so sad to me is that the Democratic Party has moved so far to the right over the last 30 years that he is in a position of having to be a gadfly.



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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #53
64. i agree with your last sentence. i just wish he would realize that we can't get what's perfect.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. But what has he accomplished?
That's the question. Voting your conscience is great. But do we elect people to just go vote their conscience or actually get things done?
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. Blame the Democrats not him
If the Democratic Party had not become so cowardly and/or corrupt, the common sense policies that Kunicich often has to fight for could be advanced.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. apparently blame everyone but him
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 02:37 AM by Egnever
All or nothing oft times gets nothing. DK's record of accomplishments is proof of that.
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. It was a harmful vote. I hope he has a primary opponent. If he does
I'll contribute. He has done as much or more harm as as the Blue Dogs.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. Voters have more of a luxury to vote their conscience than Congresspeople.
It's the truth.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
61. He has issued lots of great press releases!!! Other than that, no nothing.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. He's a self righteous PRICK who contributes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
He's a waste of time and a waste of a congressional seat.

All he's ever done is increase opposition to progressive causes wiht his self righteous bullshit.

He needs to be primaried.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Many Kucinich supporters love to throw around the "Obama should be more like LBJ"
theme.

Had LBJ been in the Congress or in the Presidency and Dennis Kucinich voted against his bill, DK would have had a primary opponent who was guaranteed to win in the next election.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Obama shouldn't be like anybody but Obama
and Obama is being exactly like Obama.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
55. I am totally in agreement.
Just tired of hearing "what LBJ would have done", when the first thing he would have done is get rid of Kucinich. Which doesn't mean that I think Obama should do that.

Simply that these are different times--which makes throwing around LBJ's name is mostly just silly.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. *crickets*
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. Is there some major piece of legislation where he was the primary sponsor or bears his name?
Was he responsible for a bill or law that brought rights or protection to people or was a great accomplishment? Do his opinions carry a lot of weight with other members of Congress or is he able to work with others the way Ted Kennedy was able to do to bring about results? :shrug:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. um...nope. but i think everyone here knows that.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. Nope, I didn't "know" that, but I suspected.
"Everyone" and "no-one" are generally useless terms because 1 exception blows it out of the water.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. I agree with a lot of his criticisms
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 05:50 PM by LatteLibertine
and being right and uncompromising means we likely won't get anything done.

Besides being bad for many Americans that would also make it much more difficult for President Obama to get anything done for the rest of his term. Besides lobbyists "donations" that's why the Group Of Psychos are so vehement in their opposition.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. I think Dennis is human. The question is where would America be had we followed his ideas.
I think he made a diplomatic mistake. But who the hell wouldn't be tired of a nation that doesn't want what is good for it.

Dennis authored legislature to impeach Cheney. I'll give him a lot of longitude just for that.

His health care bill was endorsed by Michael Moore.

I think Dennis just got sick and tired of the bullshit last night. The problem with Washington is that too many are just not human. It's all business. But it's the human part that the health care debate is all about. Not to mention the size of our military budget and the people it is killing around the world.

That bill would have passed without Dennis Kucinich. Regardless of how people feel about his vote, he's right about the principals.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. They aren't exactly his ideas
Dennis Kucinich wasn't the person who invented Single Payer. He's just the person telling his followers that it is politically possible rather than the reality which is that it isn't possible in this country right now because of our political climate.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. bing
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
58. o!
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Despicable to disparage the fighter for not winning rather than the cowards who won't fight with him
But quite typical. :thumbsdown:
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You know who fought with him yesterday? 176 Republicans and 38 blue dogs

Those make up his "team" yesterday.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. maybe in 2012 he can team up with his buddy ron paul and save us all.
:evilgrin:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. grandstanding with no effect or consequence isn't fighting for jack.
he's a backbencher. he wouldn't even be able get elected to the senate...
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. I for one do not consider him immune from criticism. nt
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. Am I the only one who does not care either way about Kucinich?
He has always voted the purity line on most things and I expect him to continue to do so. Now, I don't know that I would do that as I have some reasons I wanted this bill to pass.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I never gave him much thought until
his followers here started their unrelenting criticism of everything Obama does.
As you can see from the posts today, Dennis may not be held accountable for anything but Obama gets his feet scorched constantly.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Yeah, that is what I noticed too. Seems to me some cannot handle
criticism of their favorite politician but like to dish it out to other posters and politicians.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. funny thing is, the very posters who hurl messiah, kool-aid, cult, ect, view the little gnome as god
:shrug:
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yes. I have seen that. I wonder how well they would do if the roles were reversed.
Some would not handle it well. This is a discussion board and legitimate criticism can be on anyone and everything, last time I looked at the rules.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. ....
:spray:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. other than getting elected time and again in a safe district? big fat zero.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
37. Kucinich could walk on water and the fake dems around here would still hate his guts. nt
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. you might be mistaken on who is a fake dem around here.
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 08:33 PM by dionysus
you can tie yourself to a grandstanding clown with a bad toupe, while the adults try to save millions of lives by actually doing something productive.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. He's a hero to many progressive here
...so he must have done something right somewhere along the line - though I can't think of anything right now that wasn't just symbolic in nature.
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. The instant Kucinich accomplishes something, he will no longer be a hero to his followers
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 08:40 PM by Azathoth
Kucinich's whole appeal to them is that he would gladly go down with the ship rather than compromise on the color of the lifeboats. And since we live in a democracy, where "accomplishing" something means working with people who don't agree with you to reach a compromise, it's pretty much guaranteed he will accomplish nothing.
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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #46
60. This!
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #46
63. Right on
I don't hate him. I don't dislike him. I am bored by him. He means well, has good values and cares about people that don't always have a voice. But he also refuses to give in when sometimes smaller progress is made instead of the huge, fundamental change he wants. By wanting to stop the smaller progress, the bigger change will never come. Or it will come and he will have missed the boat.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
47. All talk, no walk, Just like his followers.
He gives a good speech about what should be, but he's never shown an interest in getting anything done.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Nice smackdown!
Wrong on two counts!
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. What legislative accomplishments does Kucinich have? nt
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
51. He's a voice of sanity in a chorus of psychotics.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
52. All yapping, no doing, just like his fan-boys.
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Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
59. He's a left-wing Ron Paul
Although they differ on issues, both support liberty, are honest, and care the utmost about the Constitution (although I can't explain his support for a nationwide handgun ban). Both are also well aware of the Hidden Government, yet neither would ever bow to it. Both despise the Federal Reserve as well.
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