The compromise that governing requires can be a bitter pill to swallow

[cleveramerican]

I am not thrilled with the shitstorm that healtcare reform has become.
But I accept the we must GET WHAT WE CAN from this group of democrats, these very members of congress, RIGHT NOW.
What some other, better group might have done differently is just hot air.
I have no interest in what might have been.
I will accept support from anybody, form any alliance, horse trade on any point, in order to proceed.
The utter failure to deliver anything(veto) on healthcare would be disaster for the party that would resonate for years.
It would result in us being rightly seen as the gang that couldn't shoot straight, a disorganized gang of fools.
The resultant election disasters would be much worse for us as a party than a weakened healthcare bill
There are other fights to fight ahead, take the hit and live to fight another day

I am not happy about it, but
I am enough of a realist to know that even the tinest miniscule step
in the right direction is better than no step at all.

This is our team... warts and all.
accept it, get what we can, what ever it turns out to be, don't turn on each other for not being pure enough,
and move on to other fights, other... friendlier climes I hope.

For these points,
I have been called right-winger, a corporatist, and too many others to recount here.
I did not arrive at this party yesterday, My views have been honed across decades of political fights.

I am a real democrat and this is what I think.
You dance with what brung ya.

[salguine]

1. Not feelin' it, sorry. Your philosophy is a recipe for two more generations of nothing. If we all

think the way you do, our grandchildren will be wondering if they can get some kind of health care reform passed.

[cleveramerican]

2. will a veto or gridlock bring reform closer?

I'd rather take a baby step than no step

[Dr Fate]

13. Twisting arms and showing real leadership against conservatives & "centrists" would bring it closer

Gridlock is coming from conservative & "centrist" DEMS and the "good" DEMS that refuse to confront/oppose/twist their arms, call them out, etc.

Why is "grid lock" and failure the only option for corrupt, lobby-rich centrists who oppose reform? Havent they heard about the "compromise" you speak of?

Why cant these Blue Dogs, DLCers and other fake DEMS work with and compromise with pro-reform Liberals & moderates?

Why is grid lock or baby steps the only response that the centrist & conservative DEMS have to real reform?

Shouldnt they make more of an effort to work with pro-reform DEMS and compromise with them, or do you admit that this is all one sided?

[saracat]

3. I am a real Democrat too and I do not understand why we are compromising

at this stage of the game.I do NOT understand bipartisanship being allowed to prevail over the interests of the people.I do Not believe that something is better than nothing. The mandates for insurance that doesn't cover everyone and the financial strain that they will place on families is scary.And I do not appreciate a tiny step when the big one could have been taken. I do not trust that we will eventually get a better bill because i don't think the PTB actually want one.I did not arrive at the party yesterday either and I also have had my views honed by decades of fights.

I used to believe politics was the art of compromise but it hasn't been thus for many years and it isn't likely to be so again. To compromise takes two and this isn't going to happen.

I am a real Democrat and I feel betrayed.

[cleveramerican]

4. you compromise in order to proceed

this is our team
this is what they can get.
what could have been is for dreamers.

what good does wringing your hands do?

[Dr Fate]

15. Who are we compromising with? Corrupt Blue Dogs? Shouldnt they be compromising with us instead?

LOL! No one is wringing their hands- they are waking up to what is going on.

Anti-reform Blue Dogs and DLCers may be on YOUR team, but they are not "our team."

Did you forget that Republicans are not in power, and this is an internal debate between politicians with Ds behind thier names.

Who is the "our team" and the "they" in your equation? Are you talking about pro reform DEMS or the anti-reform centrist DEMS?

This is not about "our team" vs. the Republicans- it is about corrupt, conservative DEMS vs. a handful of well meaning DEMS.

[cleveramerican]

20. read DU these last few days

there is so much hand-wringing over what might have been, its gotten silly.

I agree this is all within the democratic party
all the more reason to just get on with it
all the more reason to end up with nothing will make us all look foolish.

are you a dem? I assume so, this is your team like it or not,
these members are all we have,there is no better group waiting just off stage
wisdom and self preservation demands we accept what they agree on
Regardless of how badly this has turned out.

[BzaDem]

6. I'm so sick of people claiming that Democrats are doing this for bipartisanship.

I don't know why falsehoods are so freely propagated here. The House is not going to get a single Republican vote, and they have known this from day 1. The negotiations are completely within the Democratic caucus, which is far less progressive than most people think it is.

[cleveramerican]

7. I think self-interest demands it.

I don't want to see us go down in flames over this or any other issue.

I understand loads of folks are greatly invested in a better outcome, Thats where the bitter pill comes in.

[saracat]

17. I call it faux bipartisanship because even if they should get Snowe, it won't be real.

[Ineeda]

5. As disappointing as it is, I agree. The work will continue.

There's too much at stake to lose even a little progress. Total defeat would energize, encourage and empower the entire Repug party even more, especially the RW fringe, and nothing at all would get done during the next three years, at least. Hopefully the president will learn from this, that Repugs will stand in his way on every single issue that he is attempting to fix. The RW/Repugs are gearing up for 2010 and we already see how they spin two gubernatorial wins into a predicted Democratic bloodbath. Americans love to be perceived as winners, to be on the winning team, even if that team wins by cheating and lying. If we Democrats act like losers, it will guarantee that we are. However, as voters and activists, we need to redouble our efforts. The threat works for us as well as the Repugs and we need to express our disappointment and anger so our folks in Washington know that it's time to 'shit or get off the pot' as my dad used to say.

[cleveramerican]

22. I send one type-written business letter per day

I am working my way through the entire Massachusetts congressional delegation.

If every body who feels this has turned into a shitstorm did that,
maybe....just maybe we'll do better in the next fight.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. I'm sure you are a 'real Democrat' but you are also wrong

We can not simply pass a bill to pass a bill this time. Health care involves deep emotions, family, and money which is easily counted. If people are bleeding payments and not getting good care, THAT will bring blame upon those who passed it for all time. This is not like NAFTA or some other issues where you can slide it by and people do not really see and feel the results for years. This is a bill that will involve each American sitting down with a calculator to see how much they have to pay extra, they will be reading benefit books to see what they get for the money. And if it is expensive and not very good, who will be blamed? Democrats. Who tried to stop it? Republicans.
This is not an issue where you can pull a fast one on the people and expect them not to notice. They intend to collect cash from everybody for Insurance. Think it through.
I wonder what you do for a living. Nothing involving negotiations that much is clear. But there are a tiny handful here on DU that push for all the compromised crap that profits the Insurance Industry, and they always do it without selling features and benefits of the plan, but by throwing adjectives at Democrats who disagree. By using catch phrases and by claiming you have been abused for your righteousness.
Tell me how the plan you love so much is going to deal with the families that Obama and Kaine think are 'sinners'. Are we families, or strangers to one another? How will the subsidies and tax issues work when they can not even look American families in the eye like equals? Can you explain any of that, or are you just pushing to push? Got any reason? Details? No just insults and catch phrases.
Sorry not buying what you are selling. You could not close the deal.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. I note the lack of reply to any and all questions I asked

As I expected.

[cleveramerican]

19. I am back now and I will respond

[cleveramerican]

21. I am pushing to push

you are exactly right about that.
I am more of a pragmatist than an idealist.
I don't love the plan ,I think it is weak as dishwater
I am not "selling " you anything, you have a fully formed opinion firmly in place.
You have a lot invested in things turning out a certain way
I am simply taking a broader view.
Get as much as we can as fast as we can and move on.
I am not happy about it but I will accept it.

sometimes, and I think this is one of those times,
there is no turning back, no giving up, no point in wishing what some other braver group of dems would have come up with.
We as party MUST see this through.


I have broader view than you thats all

[cleveramerican]

27. note the lack of reply

[Clio the Leo]

10. You nailed it........

... and since I dont want to re-type my post....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8737320&mesg_id=8737425

[Life Long Dem]

11. Live with it.

[Dr Fate]

12. I'll believe that when I see centrists & conservatives giving up as much as liberals always do.

I agree that compromise and taking a bitter pill is part of politics- IF you are Liberal or a pro-reform moderate, that is.

Not so much if you are a corporate centrist or conservative.

[philly_bob]

14. REC because expresses my own conflicted feelings. n/t

[Dr Fate]

16. Un-REC b/c I think it is just more of the "centrist" type excuses I've heard for 10 years.

n/t

[cleveramerican]

24. Two simple questions...

What is the alternative to proceeding?

Is it better than proceeding?

[Phx_Dem]

18. Agreed. The country is not run or dominated by any one ideological group.

I wish we could have everything we want on every bill, but that's not realistic and it never happens.

[salguine]

23. The wording of this, and the way it's broken up into stanzas, make me think it

should be printed on a plaque of wood with a picture of a sunrise on it.

[ncteechur]

25. Agreed.

You get a beginning, something to work with, something to improve. Passing nothing will be a victory for the right. It will be disaster for those who still do not have insurance.

[ShadowLiberal]

26. I agree with you, Ted Kennedy turning down a HC bill was his biggest regret ever in the senate

Ted Kennedy's #1 regret in his long career in the senate was rejecting a compromise proposal on health care that Nixon offered him, because it wasn't liberal enough. He was haunted by missing that opportunity years later, hoping to get another rare opportunity like we have now to reform health care in a step in the right direction.