Anybody know what the Truth is to Obama wanting Kids to go to School longer?

[MadBadger]

I've been looking on the internet, and so far Fox News is the main story Ive found and do not trust them. What is Obama's position on this? Does he want kids to go for a longer day, longer school year, or is this all BS?

I've got a big problem with a longer school year if that is the case.

[damonm]

1. If he is (which I know not for certain), what's the problem?

[MadBadger]

4. A big part of my life growing up was Sleepaway Camp during the Summer

I dont like decimating that industry, not to mention I think Summer Camp is a great place for kids growing up.

[Clio the Leo]

11. My summer camp involved a flute and a book....

..... and was held ..... at my school! lol

It was only for half the day and there were terms with a week in between. I think I'm not too scared from it.

Given that the leader of the free world is the man who's mama got him up at 5am to study English BEFORE school ... even though "it was not picnic for her either buster!" .... If I HAVE to choose, I'm gonna go with "more school" being the better of the two options.

(which is not to say your time spent at camp made you less worthy, quite the opposite I'm sure, I just dont see MORE school being harmful.)

[WonderGrunion]

32. You pretended to be a woman and killed other camp counselors?

You need a lot more schooling and a lot less B-horror films.

www.imdb.com/title/tt0086320/

[Phx_Dem]

46. Summer camps can be great, but they can also be expensive

particularly if a family has more than 1 or 2 kids. Either way I don't think summer camp should be a consideration in whether school terms should be extended. And, I don't think anyone is advocating no summer vacation, just a shorter one, if at all. I hear something about it on the radio the other day but don't know if came from the Administration.

I can't imagine anyone -- except maybe rich people who don't want their kids around -- would send their kids to camp for 2 or 3 months! It's usually a couple of weeks at most, or local day camps.

[ikojo]

17. Not everyone can afford sleepaway

camp. The camp the son of a friend attended this summer (eight weeks away) was over $6,000. I don't know many working class people
who can afford that, let alone inter-city parents.

[jberryhill]

2. Fresh from the clue factory....

The federal government doesn't determine the length of school days, school years, or school calendars.

This clue has been brought to you by The Clue Factory, makers of fine products such as "Duh!" and "WTF?"

[dionysus]

3. lol

[phleshdef]

5. LOL. May I steal that bit? That was excellent.

[MadBadger]

6. Stay Classy

[SIMPLYB1980]

9. LOL!

:rofl:

[RepublicanElephant]

13. lol! nt

:rofl:
business should be booming!

[kristopher]

21. Not a very good clue...

Considering the degree of influence on local systems that federal funding provides. It would be a simple enough measure to link all funding to number of teaching hours per year or some other, similar metric.

[jberryhill]

49. And there is legislation authorizing this.... where?

It's a nonsense story.

Yes, the president may have expressed any number of things relative to education, but that hardly translates into a policy, let alone agency action.

[kristopher]

56. The goal always comes first.

It isn't a nonsense story either. Going by the interview Colbert did with Duncan last night, this seems like a fairly central point to action on the education front.

Will it get done? Since we still haven't adopted the metric system, I'm also more than a bit pessimistic. However it does seem to be a concrete goal of this administration.

ETA: The "clue factory" post was good, btw.

[Pool Hall Ace]

59. Oh! I'm having a flashback . . .

I remember in '72 I overheard one girl telling another that "If McGovern wins, we'll have to get up at 5:00 in the morning to go to school!"

Even though I was only 10 years old at the time, I knew that was B.S.

[BlooInBloo]

7. I had assumed it was a longer school year, simply because a significantly longer day...

doesn't make much sense.

Not certain, though.

[Clio the Leo]

8. Where did this meme come from?

A teacher friend of mine asked me the same thing .... she is otherwise quite progressive and VERY Pro-Obama but is not pleased with this idea. It was the first I'd heard of it.

[MadBadger]

14. Idk, Ive heard it every so often, then Colbert did a story on it

It just got me thinking.

[DrToast]

15. Arne Duncan?

[joeycola]

29. Yes, Arne has been pushing it for a long time.

[liberal N proud]

10. I think it a great idea

Our oldest daughter went to a lab school that was part of a teaching college. They basically went to school year round.

When the college had classes, they were in school, with 2 weeks in between sessions.

1. They develop study habits early and never lose them like many kids do during long summer breaks.

2. The two week periods were scattered throughout the year allowing for plenty of vacation opportunities and even if that didn't fit the schedule, they were in school enough that a few days away didn't hurt. You can't take a kid out of school in for a week in the current public school system.

3. They learn good work ethics, get up each day and go to your school or job.


If it were available in the area we live now, we would have done it for the our younger daughter as well.

[MadBadger]

16. I dont think putting Summer Camps out of business is a good idea

[kristopher]

20. It's interesting how you phrase that.

You are obviously more concerned about the economic well being of the camp operators than the well being of the students.

[vaberella]

36. Exactly...I don't know many families that can even afford to send their kids to summer camp. n/t

[SIMPLYB1980]

22. Maybe the camps can work the longer school year into their

schedule. The most popular example of year round education is the 45-15 plan. This has students attending school 45 days and then getting three weeks (15 days) off. The normal breaks (holiday, spring) are still built into this calendar. Of course, many others ways exist to organize the calendar, including the 60-20 and the 90-30 plans.

[liberal N proud]

25. The great thing about the college schedule was

when it came time for her to go to college, she chose to go year round and 4 years becomes 3. She didn't think anything about the short breaks.

Kids will love the plan if they were just allowed to experience it.

[SIMPLYB1980]

27. Yep. I took summer classes and finished my college in

3 years as well. Not only is it quicker, but it's cheaper, and you still have time to take a week or two for summer vacation.

[vaberella]

38. If the camps want to compete have them change their curriculum.

And say they have an alternative plan that works the same way----but then you'd have to make summer camps public because where I am, summer camp is not and it's extremely extremely expensive.

[SIMPLYB1980]

41. That depends on the summer camp.

I do know that a lot of summer camps are expensive, but their are also a lot of camps that are not. I went to a lot of church camps when I was young that to my knowledge were free. Later on I attended summer camp with the Boy Scouts at Camp Bud Schiele. It's not to bad of a deal.

http://www.campbudschiele.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=19574&orgkey=2097

Q. How much does it cost to attend summer camp?
A. The cost varies depending on if your troop is a member of Piedmont Council or another Council. The In-Council rate is $185.00 per scout and the Out of Council rate is $205.00 for the 2009 summer camp year.

I had a lot of fun, and have many good memories of my time spent there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nx-zCCoNHM

[vaberella]

44. You're just opening a can of worms with mentioning religious based summer camps.

Most camps and the good quality kind are rather expensive in Manhattan. Other's are cheaper like Boys & Girls Club or whatever. However, the main issue is the lack of educational growth or academic growth in those camps. They do take them on a few trips..but still the mental stimulation is missing. This coming from a former camp counselor.

[SIMPLYB1980]

45. Well this atheist doesn't have a problem with religious

based summer camps. If I had a young kid I wouldn't mind sending him or her to my old church for summer camp. Presbyterians don't get so hung up on political beliefs at least they didn't when I attended. I don't think that all camps must have some type of academic growth. What's wrong with real life experience? My time at scout camp prepared me to be able to live in the wild with basically no help from anyone else. They also taught me to be self reliant while also learning to work with other people as a team. Having said that I don't mind if kids go to math camp or whatever academic camps are offered. I just think that some education on the wilderness and athletics are important to.

[vaberella]

47. I'm not saying they're not.

On the contrary I fully support them. But I think we're talking about two different camps and when it comes to sleep away camps they are expensive around my area. And the camps that are not sleep away, a single mother of 3 kids would not be able to afford to send all her kids to a day camp. All in all the best idea would be able to make school open year round. However, most people think that when a year round school is in place that's not implementing new forms of teaching styles. There is plenty of advocacy for providing more practical approaches to schooling with vocational avenues. They can implement new programs and more courses. The point being I don't think a camp is sufficient to meet the demands a child needs or affordable for every family. However,there are plenty of ways that year round schools can meet all demands and be affordable even with a more hands-on approach that you speak of. My school was one of the last vestiges in NYC where you had home ec and sewing as well as typing class. But then again my school was an all-girls Catholic School.

[SIMPLYB1980]

48. I think we agree on most points.

Not sure if you think I was just trying to argue with you. I'm all for a longer school year, I think that it would be a much better approach than the one we have now. However, I also would not want to take away the childhood experience of summer camp from kids just because others can't afford it. There are a wide variety of camps open in my area for kids from low income families to participate in every year. I wish all kids could afford to go on a Outward Bound trip, but I would not want to withhold that experience from those who can. I just don't see why year round school and summer camps need to compete with each other. I think it would be better for all if they would find more ways to work together, and not more ways to work against each other. Maybe schools and businesses could find a way to send kids who make good grades to expensive summer camps?

[liberal N proud]

39. The number of kids that get to go to summer camp is very small

Most cannot afford to go to Camp Minni Ha Ha for the summer.

[kristopher]

19. Agree 100%.

[DrToast]

12. I think it's more about extending the school day rather than the school year

Here's an article about it:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school

Edit: Actually, it also talks about extending the school year.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

18. Ask time for kids?

http://www.timeforkids.com/TFK/kids/ns/article/0,28391,1680278,00.html
http://www.timeforkids.com/TFK/kids/wr/article/0,28391,1671889,00.html

[kristopher]

23. Thanks. Good read.. nt

[DBoon]

24. roundabout way of providing child care for working parents?

The stay-at-home mom who could pick the kids up at 3pm and watch them during long vacations is long gone.

Directly funding or advocating government child care would raise howls from anti-government types, so it is phrased as a longer school year/day for purposes of "academic excellence"

[joeycola]

26. Arne Duncan argues that kids who have longer school days

do better. Does Obama go along with it? I do not know but I know Duncan has been pushing for it.

There was a Report not long ago on this issue.

[Hekate]

52. On-site after-school programs that include both physical activity & a study component would be ideal

YES, kids do better. This has been shown to be true for decades.

It also solves the problem of latch-key kids going home to an empty house or apartment.

Question: When do girls get pregnant?
Question: When do boys get in trouble with the law?

People always think it's about their age.

Answer: Between 3:00 and 5:00 in the afternoon. After school and before the folks get home.

Hekate

[peace13]

28. I think Obama is painfully aware of how many children in this country do without

when school is not in session. How the gangs regroup and little ones are left unattended. More school equals more care for this group and better chances for their success. He also knows that our education system does not stack up to countries around the globe. If we are going to be competitive even the middle class kids are going to have to work harder. That is what I heard him say.

[vaberella]

30. I heard about this on DU a few months back. "Obama wanting US to be more like South Korea."

Let's just say drama erupted and people didn't like it too much. I personally like the idea and say yes to it. I've always advocated for more school time even as a student in elementary.

[joeycola]

31. "Obama believes longer school days and years are vital for schoolchildren "

Here it is.



President Obama believes longer school days and years are vital for schoolchildren to be able to compete in the new global economy. Obama’s remarks came during a March 10, 2009 speech at the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. The current school-year calendar stems from a time when children needed to be home to help on the family farm. Obama said the current calendar puts us at a disadvantage with students from other countries such as South Korea. He would like to increase class time adding several hours to the school day and allowing schools to stay open on the weekend as a safe haven for students. U.S. Secretary of Education Arne backs Obama’s education plan. He has stated that he believes children lose too much information over the summer.

Year-Round School


Read more: http://us-president.suite101.com/article.cfm/president_obamas_education_reform_plan#ixzz0TBgGlDTo


http://us-president.suite101.com/article.cfm/president_obamas_education_reform_plan

[vaberella]

35. I love the idea. I loved it when it was discussed months ago and I love it now.

However, based on the reception it got months ago by DUers I'm not expecting a lot of Dems will love this. I personally think it's great.

[ieoeja]

37. "disadvantage with students from other countries such as South Korea"

That's why see South Korea as the world's leading innovator!

I always toss in this Richard Feynmann (head of computer staff at Los Alamos for building the first bomb) story when I encounter this meme....

Feynmann goes to Brazil. Find high school students using US college text books on physics. Scoring as well as or better than US college students in the standard tests. Why were there no famous Brazilian physicists?

Feynmann made up his own tests using the same knowledge being taught in these books. Brazilian students fail miserably; those who take the tests, many simply refuse since "these are not the questions we were taught". Turns out Brazilian schools, from elementary on, just concentrated on memorizing the answers instead of working out the problems. So, yes, they did much better on standardized tests, but they sucked at actually applying the knowledge the tests were supposed to be measuring.

And since this is the model we have decided to follow, you should look somewhere other than the United States for the next generation of technological breakthroughs. We have joined the worker drones.

[ShortnFiery]

54. Well this young man disagrees with our President.

Hilarious! :spray:

http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009/10/06/colbert-on-obamas-proposed-longer-school-day/

[joeycola]

61. I caught that. Funny stuff.

[Cha]

33. I found this..

<snip>>

U.S. Education Secretary supports longer school days

By Kristen A. Graham

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan wants Philadelphia's schoolchildren - and those around the country - to have longer school days and shorter summer breaks.

"Six hours a day just doesn't cut it," said Duncan, who comes to town tomorrow to tour two city schools and meet with local education officials. "Our school calendar's based on a 19th century agrarian economy. I'm sure there weren't too many kids in Philadelphia working in their parents' fields this summer."

The message is in keeping with one given this year by President Obama, who told reporters that in order to remain competitive, U.S. children should spend more time in school.

"We're desperately short on time," Duncan said today. "Children in India and China are going to school much more than our students are."
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20090928_U_S__Education_Secretary_supports_longer_school_days.html

You could write to the http://www.whitehouse.gov and let them know about your feelings on Summer Camps.

[vaberella]

34. I'm cool with summer camps as long as they're scholastically inclined.

I went to math camp and other variations of scholastic camps for 8 years. It was fun and I never felt dumbed down. Summer break is a nightmare if there is nothing enriching going on. Like scholastic tours at a science museum or just museums or something worthwhile. Having 24 hour recess is a nightmare for parents who work (especially thos who work 2 jobs) and a nightmare for the kids in the long run.

[stray cat]

40. I think kids should work on the family farm over the summer

as originally intended and why we have summer breaks.

[depakid]

42. Not how much leverage the federal government has over states & individual school districts

on this matter. Limited carrots & sticks through funding options, would be my guess.

Good idea though. If it were me, I'd propose year round school with breaks, like Britain and Australia have.

[joeycola]

43. think NCLB.

[Hekate]

50. US kids have a significantly shorter school year than other nations do. We are falling behind...

You know our system is based on an agricultural model that is several hundred years old, don't you? Unless you need your kids to help plant and harvest the potatoes and wheat by hand, after milking the cows in the morning, then your kids don't need to be out of school for 1/4 of the year.

The summer camp industry is the least of my concerns. I had to put my kids in the YMCA summer camp/day camp every summer because I was at work. Child care ended up being a huge chunk of my income every year, including the summertime. During the school year I enrolled the kids in AYSO to keep them occupied before I got home from work.

On the other hand, when our school district considered "year round school" -- meaning, not a longer school year for kids but staggered multiple vacations so that more kids could attend the same school, I was part of a posse of parents and after school care providers who spoke out against doing any such thing unless the new school vacations schedule was integrated with programs like the YMCA. I pointed out that Camp counselors were generally college students whose school breaks more or less coincided with those of the public school system. Given the high proportion of working parents with a need for child care for school-age kids, this had to be thought through in its entirety.

Simply extending the school year into June and August would not substantially alter summer day camps, I don't think. But again, this needs to be thought through in its entirety from a child-care angle. The main consideration should be that kids -- especially those whose parents cannot afford the cost of "enrichment" programs like summer camp -- fall behind every school year and eventually never do catch up with the rest of the world. And the ones who fall farthest behind don't have the option of becoming farmers any more.

Hekate

[and-justice-for-all]

51. Our kids need it and we are way behind other countries on education..nt

[quantass]

53. Let's pray its true...Last i checked America is pretty sucky in the Educated department. nt

[Odin2005]

55. It's a horrible idea.

counting the endless amounts of homework kids get now any more risks burnout and making the kids hate learning.

[Raine]

57. Because they will learn more

if they're in school more :shrug: would be my guess as to his thinking.

[AdHocSolver]

58. More time in school as a panacea shows that these people do NOT understand the problem.

If the quality is "bad", increasing the quantity will NOT make anything better.

If the students don't learn properly in nine months, that indicates a systemic problem. The question to ask is what are the reasons that outcomes are so poor.

The students who graduated in my generation went on to become doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, and we had three months off in the summer.

One of the reasons (listed in no particular order) that "my" generation did better in school was because we did NOT have computers to deal with. Computers contribute another layer of abstraction to learning a subject (and also a distraction) that takes away from dealing with subject matter. Computers and their maintenance sucks up a lot of money that would be better spent on science labs, better written textbooks, more teachers to reduce the student-teacher ratio. I taught school many years ago and class size is a significant determiner of student outcomes.

The curriculums in many school systems are so dumbed-down that it is a wonder that students learn anything. My own kids complained that most of the school year was spent merely rehashing the previous year's material. It wasn't necessary to repeat last years material, since most of the students retained it. This constant rehash merely induced extreme boredom. Boredom is one of the chief "killers" of learning, and crushing boredom is built into the curriculums and organization of most school systems. A big improvement in education would occur if the powers that be made school more "fun".

I taught school in an economically disadvantaged neighborhood. There were many social issues, and sometimes the kids came to school just plain hungry. Instead of spending money on a longer school year, how about school breakfasts and lunches for kids in poorer neighborhoods?

This brings up another issue. With so many school districts complaining that they don't have enough money, how would you pay for an extended school year? Make the teachers work longer hours for the same pay, like the corporations do?

Floating the panacea of more school time is a distraction by people who are clueless about the problems with education in this country.

[Bonobo]

60. Kids go to school for 180 days in USA. 180 days.

Does that make sense to you?