Why didn't Obama come out and support the Schumer and Rockefeller Amendments?

[saracat]

When president,s campign for an issue it has a lot more clout. The WH hasn't taken any kind of a lead that I am aware of to ensure that a real public option is offered.

If Obama really thinks a "real" public option is important, he would fight for it.

[Avalux]

1. Please remember these amendments were tied to Baucus's bill.

There are others to fight for; Kennedy's bill in Senate and three more in the House. Baucus's bill isn't a good one with the mandate stipulation.

It's not over by a long shot.

[freddie mertz]

2. Seems to me there are three possible explanations

1. He does not support the amendments.

2. He does not want to step in this early in the process, and gave up on the effort knowing it was doomed, hoping to get a better deal in reconciliation.

3. He DID try, but not effectively, behind the scenes.

I may be missing another explanation of course.

[saracat]

3. I suspect your reasons are close.

[vaberella]

94. Maybe the first post listed in this thread?! n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

110. For the same reasons that wrestling with pigs is usually inadvisable.

You just get muddy.

Wading into the debate to a degree greater than he already has (he is on record supporting a public option) risks his credibility if his efforts fail... and I think vigorous support of either of the amendments wouldn't have changed things.

[demwing]

157. How about this: Political cover.

See, if the Dems put up at least one bill that the Republicans cannot effectively argue against, but know they won't support regardless, then they can claim the high ground all around. "We tried everything to get Republican support, but they just want to block and block again."

Then we use reconciliation to get the bill that we want, blame the Republicans for being obstinate bastards, and fly into the 2010 midterms smelling like rose scented health care heroes.

slam dunk

[Thrill]

4. Why should he? This is just a committee vote. This Bill is no more important

than the Senate HELP Bill.

[freddie mertz]

8. Actually this is VERY important

Since it reveals the scope of opposition to the public option among so-called Democrats in the Senate.

This would seem to render reconciliation the ONLY means of getting that option in the bill.

I think we saw this coming a long time ago, but now it is just about certain.

[karynnj]

25. The result on the Schumer amendment was that it got 10 out of the 23 votes

Losing, but showing substantial support on a very conservative committtee. That might help in getting it in when merged with teh HELP bill.

[Thrill]

26. Obama just wants a bill out of this damn committee.

They have been holding up everyone since July.

As soon as they get one out of here, thats when his work needs to start when they start reconciling these bills together. Theses Senators don't have to support a public option, but they do need to vote for cloture and that will be what Reid and Obama will have to step up and ensure.

They don't have to go through reconciliation to get a public option. They just need all the Democrats to vote for cloture. So they can get it to the floor

[Undercurrent]

88. Agreed.

I think you understand the process quite well.

[saracat]

10. And that is the reason he has never made a statement that any bill without a

decent Public Option will be vetoed? Others have stated that they will not support any Bill without a Public Option, why not Obama?

[karynnj]

36. Because he does not want to make that kind of statement as there good be

situations under which he would not live up to it.

What would happen if there is a mediocre to ok bill that gives broad new subsidies to those up to 4 times the poverty line, eliminates pre-existing conditions, discrimination against women, and allows small businesses and individuals the ability to buy at group rates and includes re-insurance of catastrophic costs? You likely remember Elizabeth Edwards emotionally and effectively speaking against McCain's plan that would have made it impossible for her to get coverage because of pre-existing conditions. This hypothetical bill would prevent that - though nowhere near what we want. Would a President (Elizabeth) Edwards or a President Dean veto this if that is the best that Congress could pass?

[saracat]

38. Why do we even have to argue about "good enough'

or "the best we can pass" when we have the majority, and the presidency? The GOP seem to be able to do more to control us than we do to set the agenda and pass bills. Are they just better than us? They certainly got their agenda passed when they had the majority.

[karynnj]

40. Because we still need the votes

Not every Democrat is in favor of a public option - you just saw the Finance committee vote. The President can not force Senators to vote the way he wants. I think they WILL get a public option out of the Congress, but it won't be easy.

You though did not answer my question. Would a President E Edwards veto a bill of the sort I described? If your answer is "no", then ask if she would be willing to make the statement you are asking of Obama.

[saracat]

44. I think they might. But I certainly don't know.I would expect this stament of any Democratic

president.We must provide healthcare for ALL. And this doesn't do it.And Presidents who arfe savvy HAVE forced votes in the past.The GOP did it all the time and we used to.

[karynnj]

48. Actually, Presidents who are savvy have found the common ground

where they can get enough votes. That does not mean that they got exactly the bill they would have wanted.

I assume from your response that President Edwards or President Dean would have made your statement. Now, consider what they do if the hypothetical bill comes out of Congress. Would either veto it?

[saracat]

49. Dean has said he would never support a bill without a solid Public Option.

I can assume Edwards "might" feel the same way.I don't know. Several Senators have stepped forward and said they would not support HCR without the Public Option and I applaud them for it.

[karynnj]

52. There is a difference between a Senator and a President in that it is rare

when something depends on just one Senator.

How would President Dean respond to a woman dealing with stage IV breast cancer, rejected by her insurance company which calls it a pre-existing condition? He would have just vetoed the bill that, while not perfect, could have been a godsend to her.

That is why I have greater respect for anyone who says honestly that they would have to look at the merits of the bill vs the status quo - after having said they would fight for it.

[saracat]

58. I have a preexisitng condition and my insurance is ridiculous

( and my mother died of breast cancer)and even so, I maintain that we have to fight for the whole enchilada. There is NO reason not to.We don't need the GOP votes and we should be able to get the Dems to lockstep this one time.We may never have this opportunity again. I don't believe in bipartisanship anymore. It has not worked for the Dems at all in recent history.

[karynnj]

59. What would you as President or Senator do to get the votes

of Lieberman, Lincoln, Baucus, Conrad etc

I agree that fighting for the whole thing is a good idea, but the statement you ruled out accepting something, if there were simply to many people fundamentally against a public option.

[saracat]

60. I would blackmail them I had to or bribe them. That is what FDR and LBJ did.

Whatever it takes.

[CTLawGuy]

87. self delete

NT

[vaberella]

95. Just by that statement I thank God and all that is powerful in this world that you are not Pres.

You have no idea on how to get things done. This is not the only issue that will pass by these people. Obama had an ambitious plan going in and he wants to make sure he will meet if not all his plan by the end of his 4 years at least meet 80% of it. That being said you get more flys with honey than with vinegar. The point being you don't burn your bridges before you get your things done. What you're demanding presumes there is ONLY one issue Obama is fighting for and he can willing threaten other officials to meet one demand.

Secondly you want a Bush for the left. He's not Bush and won't be. Bush/Cheney blackmailed or ramrodded or unilaterally did things that they wanted. Obama was voted in and follows the law of the land. I find it boggling when I see people who don't respect that by proposing he takes any excessive measure to get things done---which is similar to what Bush did.

[saracat]

100. Believe me ,I am not the one that doesn't know how things are done.

I used to believe as you do.The Bush years and the actions of contemporary Democrats have convinced me otherwise. In my own family of liberal Dem's who were part of Roosevelt's brain trust my own grandmother told me how she would carry $10,000 in the heel of her pump and pretend it was broken in order for a prominent statesman to remove the money to ensure legislation. I used to be shocked by the stories and hoped we lived in a different world. The legislation that money bought still stands today.

Politics isn't nice. And the reasons most powerful people are involved isn't altruistic.

[Dr Fate]

137. She wants an LBJ or FDR for the left, not a Bush. n/t

n/t

[Dr Fate]

136. I'll bet they do this when it comes time to find support for wars based on lies.

If so, then why should I have a problem if they use the same methods for things that I like, for a change?

I'm with you-the inherent corruption can be used to get *OUR* agenda through as well.

[tridim]

106. "I will not sign any bill without a strong public option" -President Obama

Why are you ignoring that quote?

[lumberjack_jeff]

112. Because he will sign whatever bill congress passes.

And he should.

[ShortnFiery]

5. Let me guess, ...

some may chime into say that he's "playing chess" or that he's has this super-smart secret agenda that will SOMEHOW score us a "public option" in the end. I believe the foregoing as much as the possibility that our "chocolate rations" will be upgraded in the near future. :eyes:

Bipartisanship and intellectual pragmatism will only serve the upper 1%. Now, President Obama is serving THEM well. :(

[larryhorse]

6. He will

As soon as he gets back from Denmark.

[scheming daemons]

9. Um... he doesn't go to Denmark until Thursday evening....

...but nice try.... and um...

"Welcome to DU"

[Pirate Smile]

19. He's not in Denmark.

:eyes:

He didn't come out for or against amendments in other committees but this is a saracat thread so the point is to rag on Obama. We know the drill.

[scheming daemons]

7. It's a COMMITTEE vote... not a senate vote.... 4 out of 5 committee bills HAVE a PO

Relax. It will be in the final bill.

[saracat]

12. WHY doesn't he say he will NOT support a bill without the Public Option?

[Better Believe It]

27. Because he will support a bill without a strong public option

Is that really so hard for people to understand?

A bill with a strong public option would undermine his deal with the private insurance industry.

[placton]

85. amen

simply put: he lied to us

[Baltoman991]

35. He already has.

But I suspect you knew that already but it's not as much fun passing along facts as opposed to fiction right?

[harkadog]

41. Where is the link to that?

[Baltoman991]

47. You know how

to do a search of the board? Try it, you'll find it. Also, if you look further down in this thread you'll find a link to it.

[vaberella]

96. Have you ignored his interviews and speeches?

Are you intentionally deaf to his statements?! He has said time and time again that he supports only the bills with a public option. He finds that te public option is fundamental to health care reform. Why the would you think he would support a bill without it? Every bloody speech, every statement says over and over and over again that he supports the public option. You're being intentionally obtuse if your asking the question that you are.

[DrToast]

13. Thank you. LOL @ at the idea of a President lobbying for a committee ammendment

[saracat]

18. My point is, he hasn't "lobbied" for a real Public Option.

In any Bill. He has NEVER said a bill not containing it would be unacceoptable OR that he would veto it.

[Cali_Democrat]

22. I think the ultimate point of this thread is that you can't stand Obama

[saracat]

28. Can't answer the question so resort to nname calling? Why hasn't the

President drawn a line in the sand regarding a Public Option? He has called it only one of the "tools" to HCR. He has not said he would veto any bill without one, nor has he criticized the bachus Bill in any way.

[scheming daemons]

31. What name did the poster call you?

:shrug:

[karynnj]

37. Because he would prefer not to say something where he could be caught in a trap

What would happen if there is a mediocre to ok bill that gives broad new subsidies to those up to 4 times the poverty line, eliminates pre-existing conditions, discrimination against women, and allows small businesses and individuals the ability to buy at group rates and includes re-insurance of catastrophic costs? You likely remember Elizabeth Edwards emotionally and effectively speaking against McCain's plan that would have made it impossible for her to get coverage because of pre-existing conditions. This hypothetical bill would prevent that - though nowhere near what we want. Would a President (Elizabeth) Edwards or a President Dean veto this if that is the best that Congress could pass?

[dionysus]

119. why are you even here? you practically bragged about not voting for him.

:shrug:

[brentspeak]

57. Tiresome cliche: Hold Obama's feet to the fire = "You just don't like Obama."

At this point, the mods should consider those kind of 'You just don't like Obama' responses "trolling", because they are disruptive, insulting, and are meant to stymie serious discussion.

[dionysus]

121. projection at it's finest.

[ProSense]

29. Same crap with you every time. The OP isn't an innocent question

It's pretentious disingenuous crap: "He has NEVER said a bill not containing it would be unacceoptable OR that he would veto it."


Obama Demands: The Bill I Sign Must Include Public Option

AFL-CIO live-tweets Obama speech -- Obama: there needs to be a public option!

[saracat]

39. Wishy washy just "includes it"He has never said he would veto

it and he needs to be louder and stipulate that it be a "solid" public option. Those exchanges are crap. He needs to state it AGAIN.NOW. When it counts.

[ProSense]

53. "He has NEVER said a bill not containing it would be unacceoptable"

Don't be obtuse.

[scheming daemons]

32. He hasn't said he wouldn't either...

...

[phleshdef]

11. Because he has came out in support of what those amendments are trying to achieve a THOUSAND TIMES!!

[saracat]

15. Actually he hasn't.he has called the PO "desirable but only one tool."

He has never drawn a line in the sand.

[phleshdef]

51. Supporting those amendments wouldn't be "drawing a line in the sand". Nice try though.

And it would have been stupid and still would be stupid to draw a line in the sand.

I'm glad he is President and not you. You would never get anything done.

[truedelphi]

135. Even worse, when questioned by the Teabagger crowd, he was

Not able to present any strong arguments.

Why the hell go out and engage with the Teabaggers, if you are going to be wishy washy? Why not just stay friggin' home, or go to Denmark, rather than waste the tax payers money flying all over the country to say so little about such an important subject.

One young Teabagger sniffed - "President Obama, if we ahve a public option, it will mean that the Insurance Providers will find it hard to compete." The young man had given his name and stated that he was from the Univ of Colorado, Boulder CO.

Obama was most wishy washy in his response. Like you say, he replied "I never said that the public option was the everything. It's just one tool. We might not even end up with it.."

Even Jon Stewart had a snappier retort than that. He explained how easy it would be for the President to say - "Well, you chose to go to a public university, but has your decision put the private universities out of business?"

[Cali_Democrat]

14. There are other bills that are better...why should he support the Baucus bill?

Because of one ammendment? 4 other bills have the public option.

There is a lot of other crap in the Baucus bill that just isn't worth supporting.

[depakid]

24. +1

That legislation is abhorrent on every level and should be sidelined- though the votes today certainly do expose certain Senators for who and what they are.

[saracat]

34. I agree, but Obama has also not spoken out against any of thosed provisions.

And he has not taken a definative stand on the Public Option. He weakly decribes it as "just another tool". Even though he favors it, that isn't a ringing endorsement and he has done nothing to ensure we get it.
Those who really believe in a decent Public Option have spoken out and said that any bill not containing it was unacceptable. The president has NOT.

[karynnj]

16. He came out in favor of the public option - there was no need to tell the Senators

on that committee that those were the public option amendments. They knew and they knew Obama wants them. In addition, we do not know and will not know of any Presidential calls made. A personal one to one call to each of the small number of possibly persuadable nos done PRIVATELY would be far more persuasive than a public call on specific amendments.

[cali]

17. Howard Dean has said that the Baucus bill is the worst piece

of healthcare legislation he's ever seen. What makes you think that it's ok just because it has a PO attached?

[saracat]

21. Actually it is similar to the others , minus any form of a PO. Howard was mostly

concentrating on the lackof the PO< though there are other bad elements I agree. TYhe point os Obama has NEVER drawn a line in the san about a solid Public Option.

[truedelphi]

20. Why did LBJ spend the months right before the

Civil Rights Bill was voted for rushing around visiting every segregationist he could link up with?

Oh that's right, LBJ didn't.

But Obama is pretending that he is so concillatory. What a ruse. If he wanted this bill to be what it should be, he'd have seen to it.

His stance of being "Concillatory" -- what is that about? Doesn't it seem like a cover story for the fact that he has already bargained with the devil and agreed to the devil's terms. He'll see to it that the insurance industry executives can continue their plunder, in return for getting to run against some RW nut job come 2012.

[saracat]

23. I agree that if he wanted it, he would have seen to it. Some thing is wrong here.

[ProSense]

30. "Some thing is wrong here." Yes, the OP is more disingenuous crap

Obama Demands: The Bill I Sign Must Include Public Option

AFL-CIO live-tweets Obama speech -- Obama: there needs to be a public option!

[saracat]

42. Wishy washy. . Public Option isn't even stressed, just "included"

which reads as maybe. He needs to threaten a veto and to propose a "solid" Public Option. We have the majority.The public wants it.What is he waiting for? That speech was in July and he hasn't been any firmer since.He has never said that HCR wothout a PO is worthless and has never even offered an opinion on the bad things in the Bachus Bill.

[truedelphi]

43. The situation with the Baucus committee is truly a bad one

The Repugs on that Committee now speak in terms of using the word "Reform" as meaning "To end." They use "Ending Medicare" synonymously with "reforming" MediCare.

Watching the C Span televised hearings of the Baucus Finance Committee was enough to make a progressive go nuts.

[saracat]

45. And the WH is silent. Emmanuel undoubtely loved the Bachus Bill.

[truedelphi]

50. Actually Rahm took an elevator into the lowest bowels of the WH

Way down deep where Dick Cheney used to hide, and then he gave a totally triumphant "F____ Yes!" that echoed all the way back up that elevator shaft. H e didn't even have the decency to wipe the smile of fhis mug when he returned to his office.

[ProSense]

54. It isn't wishy washy. You're just still in bitterville. n/t

[Name removed]

55. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TomCADem]

33. JFK/LBJ Took Five Years To Past Medicare

JFK/LBJ campaigned for it in 1960, and it was percolating in Congress for five years before it was signed in 1965.

[truedelphi]

46. Point noted. But the fact remains that in the months leading up

To the Passage of a Bill, LBJ didn't run around seeking to appease those opposed to his leggislation.

The bills were TO HIS LIKING. They had HIS STAMP on them.

And after those bills were passed, yes, whatever happened and was voted on in both Houses became his legacy.

While Obama's legacy is just gonna be that he was part of the Industrial/Military/Big Media Complex, that Eisenhower attempted to warn us about.

[TomCADem]

67. Actually, Medicare WAS A Huge Compromise From Truman's Dream Of Universal Care

There is this myth that Lyndon Johnson gave liberals everything they wanted. That is not true. Instead, Medicare was a signicantly watered down version of the universal care originally sought by Truman.

[brentspeak]

56. Answer: Obama has only been giving lip service to a real public option

[stevenleser]

107. I was wondering why no one was responding to your points and then I realized

I am probably one of the only folks left who dont have you on ignore.

That is rectified now, BTW. Buh-bye

[dionysus]

111. ROFL

:spray:

[stevenleser]

117. LOL, thanks

The Obama concern trolls here are just so, so, trolly...

[dionysus]

118. they had a big bowl of trollios for breakfast today, fer sure.

[backscatter712]

61. Remember the plan: Get this bill out of committee.

In order to keep the process moving forward, Baucus has to crap his turd of a bill onto the Senate floor.

If there had been a huge pie-fight over the public option today, it's possible Baucus would have found another way to slow-walk it.

Get it on the floor, get it merged with the HELP Committee bill, get it past the floor vote, get it in conference committee (there's multiple opportunities to put the public option back in.)

But first, take the ball away from Blue Cross Baucus.

[harun]

102. Excellent post.

[DevonRex]

62. Why didn't you post this on that other site?

:shrug:

You only come around to bash Obama. Therefore you're irrelevant to any real discussion here.

[inna]

65. what a stupid and f*cked up thing to say.

:thumbsdown:

[DevonRex]

73. Aw. You hurt my feelings. Not. I spoke the truth. She only comes around to bash.

She takes EVERY opportunity to do so. She has no credibility anymore, just like a few others here who do the same thing.

[saracat]

90. Oh please. Have you ever critiques ANYTHING Obama has done? Is everything perfect to you?

Should I be saying you have no credibility because you can't separate the issues from the man? What about your total acceptance of EVERYTHING Obama does? Isn't that just as bad as what you are accusing me of?

[DevonRex]

103. At least you're admitting that you never like anything Obama does. That's a start.

As for me, I come here to get AWAY from negativity, not to add to it. There's enough shit out there already.

One thing I can do is support a guy who goes out and advocates for reform in the face of GUNS and people who would happily see a civil war in this country. All you do is whine on a message board. Over and over and over and over.

[dionysus]

123. +1 people wonder why they are received that way, when they freely admit they didn't vote for him.

:hi:

[saracat]

126. I DID vote for Obama in the General. I did NOT vote for him in the Primary.

Or can't you distinguish between the two? I even campaigned for him and handed out lit in addition to working full time on a local campaign.

[dionysus]

127. if you say so, i recall differently.

[saracat]

128. During the Primary, which apparently some refuse to put behind them, I said I would have difficulty

voting for Obama. He was NOT my primary choice. But this is not about the Primary. This is about the Public option.

[saracat]

124. You have no idea. I would put my political resume up against yours anyday.

And BTW, I do not admit that i have never posted anythning complimentary about the president because that would not be true. In fact I am very pleased that he has started to do some commercials for HCR. But believe as you wish.

[saracat]

91. And apparently you only come around to praise and defend him, not to ever discuss the issues.

Apparently you feel that not to question anything constitutes discussion.As you might say, "Pot meet kettle"

[geek tragedy]

105. Because he's going to sit down with Dodd, Reid, and Baucus

and directly participate in the merger of this bill with the HELP bill anyways.

This has been another episode of "simple questions to stupid questions posed by Obama-hating PUMAs."

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

63. Chess

[Moochy]

64. Dangerous Questions = Unrec Squad

GOOO TEAM OBAMA!!

[ProSense]

66. Disingenuous question = Crawling out of the woodwork.

Go Team Bitter!

[Moochy]

69. Hey look its the Uncrec Squad Leader

:hi:

[ProSense]

79. Thanks for the compliment. Better to be a leader than a bitter follower. n/t

[DevonRex]

80. Yep. And the bitter followers are just following other bitter people

into even more bitterness.

[Moochy]

86. Bitter Follower? it is to laugh.

Typical of a bullyboy thug like you to take an insult as a compliment. Self appointed DU PR brigade squad assemble!

back to the ignore list with you, fancy pants.

[ProSense]

89. "Typical of a bullyboy thug like you to take an insult as a compliment."

The irony and hypocrisy aren't lost.

[Phx_Dem]

68. Probably because he, like most of us knew that a public option

would not be coming out of the Blue Dog Finance committee. As Howard Dean and many others have been saying for months, the public option will be added in conference. OR, it be voted on all by itself using reconcillation.

I can't believe anyone -- other than Arianna Huffington -- actually thought we'd get a public optin from the Finance committee.

Sen. Harkin said today, he "guarantees" a public option in the final bill.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/29/787807/-Harkin-Guarantees-A-Public-Option

[Jennicut]

98. I want to slap my head against the keyboard. What part of Blue Dog Finance committee

do people not get?
I expected as much out this committee, didn't everyone? No one wants this crap except a couple of blue dogs. The writing on the wall was written weeks ago with Baucus's crap.

[Phx_Dem]

99. I know. Baucus, Conrad, Nelson, Lincoln . . .

:puke: How can anyone be surpised?

[BootinUp]

70. You were never one

to bite your keyboard, lol.

[jenmito]

71. Why didn't you come out and support Obama-EVER? n/t

[DevonRex]

74. The right answer is that she hates his guts.

:hi:

[jenmito]

81. I know...

it's MORE than obvious. :hi:

[DevonRex]

82. Heh. And a couple more are outing themselves here, too.

Take a look around but be cool about it. :evilgrin:

[jenmito]

84. I noticed...

I HAVE been looking around. It's kind of fun to read all the posts of the people outing themselves. I AM being cool, but I'm keeping it in my memory bank for later if necessary. :D

[saracat]

93. Yes. I voted for him and actually handed out campaign lit and buttons and walked for him.

But I was also working on a local campaign. He was not my choice in the Primary.

[bigwillq]

72. Don't know why Obama would.

We are far from a final bill.

[DevonRex]

75. Don't rain on saracat's bash Obama parade.

:hi:

[bigwillq]

76. I just try to be fair.

I have criticized Obama plenty on this board, and if you want to call it "bashing", fine, doesn't bother me. I like the man, but will call out something I don't agree with. But don't think Obama should weigh in on amendments in a finance committee meeting.

[DevonRex]

78. You're just fine by me.

That's exactly the way it should be.

[saracat]

92. Thanks for a decent argument. But I still say I would like to see Obama take a real stand.

I appreciate the nature of this bill but if Obama isn't taking a real and dramatic stand now, when will he? I certainly pray that we DO get the PO in another Bill and that they pass it.But Reid's office today indicated otherwise. Yet another person said the option WOULDbe in.We are getting conflicting stories and I would like the president to speak out on this issue.

[bigwillq]

101. I am a huge proponent of the public option

I also feel single-payer would be best. But not sure we have the votes for either right now, sadly. The Blue Dogs are really screwing it up, and, of course, the repukes are not going to be of any help. I am just in wait-and-see mode, refusing to freak out too much over a bill that's a long way from final passage. If no PO is in the final bill, I will be really, really upset. But it still could be. I am not defending Obama's plan, because I think there is a lot of things I disagree with, but nothing's set in stone yet.

[saracat]

113. You are exactly right. That is why I hope he takes a huge stand NOW. I heard that he has some

commercials on, and I think that is a good thing but I hope the commercials are not equivocal.I still have we can get this done.But I also believe single payer would have been best.

I understand about the Blue Dogs as well.But we have several of them in my state who just barely won in Gop districts. They want to vote for the po but support for Obama in my state is dropping like a stone.I think if the President strongly led, he could not only shore up his own public support. but he could give those Blue dogs the courage to vote for a PO with confidence.
The reason given for the poll drop especially among the Indies, which is the largest growing voter block in our state, isthat they feel Obama doesn't stand for anything.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[placton]

83. keeping his powder dry

til 2100 - THEN he will get behind it!

[IndianaGreen]

97. He made a deal with PhRMA chief Bill Tauzin

Obama has a big corporatist streak down his back.

[polichick]

104. And he wants a bill, not necessarily a certain bill. His speech before Congress...

...spelled out how he sees the PO, as a small part of the package that would only be open to a very few people.

In other words, he's not going to fight for it ~ even though it's the only way to curb insurance companies.

[saracat]

114. That is exactly what he did say.And that is what my fears are based on.

[IndianaGreen]

134. Jay Rockefeller said that passing any bill is not what he wants

Rockefeller wants a real bill, not something piece of crap for a photo op.

[Better Today]

108. Good question, upon considering it seriously, here's my best guess....

Obama has been and is being demonized to such an extent, perhaps he feels his endorsement would actually hurt matters because it would be spun as being tyrannical.

[saracat]

115. And that is an interesting possibility.I think the issue is likely

a bit more complex but that may well be part of the picture.

[invictus]

109. Obama is a chess player.

:sarcasm:

[TheKentuckian]

116. I don't really think it was the appropriate time in the process

Its a committee mark up not the floor bill, certainly not the conference (which is when I feel he can have the most impact), and of course the final bill.

This concept is pure lack of tolerance and patience for the Senate process. There is a strong "make it so" vibe that is out of touch with the Constitution and certainly Senate rules and procedure.

Keep the heat up and stay in the fight. We're in much better shape than has been usual over the past 30 years.

[Thrill]

120. Since when do Presidents weigh in on Committee amendments?

Lets get real.

[Dr Fate]

122. When they either agree or disagree with them?

Is there some rule of decorum here where a President can't say "I agree with this idea being put forth" or "I disagree with this idea being put forth?"

How about: "I would sign a bill with this in it" or "I will not sign a bill with this in it."

Seems like such statements would be percived as perfectly normal activity to most voters.

[Thrill]

129. If this was an amendment on the Senate floor is one thing.

This is nonsense telling him to weigh in on committee amendments.

[Dr Fate]

132. It may be nonsense to you, but not to the average voter.

The average voter would have no problem with knowing what the President agrees with and what he disagrees with on this.

[Marsala]

138. The average voter doesn't even know what a "committee vote" is

This is all inside baseball stuff.

[Dr Fate]

139. But the average voter might understand: "I agree with Rockefeller on the public option"

"...and here is why..."

Or "I disagree with Rockefeller on the public option, and here is why..."

I just dont see voters having a problem if Obama was to give his opinion on such things.

If your overall theme is that the average voter does not really understand the jist of things, then why even give speeches, etc?

I do understand what is going on, and I'd love to know for sure who Obama agrees with and who he doesnt.

[Thrill]

142. Its not the time. If its on the Senate floor the President may weigh

in. It makes no sense for him to comment on committee amendments. They do about 100 of these in committee. Its not his time to weigh in.

[Dr Fate]

143. Most voters disagree with you. They would love to know more about where Obama stands.

Saying "I like this plan, but not this plan" would be a great start.

The problem for me is that "once it gets to the floor"- a strong public option might not even be in play, then I could care less what Obama says about it.

Voters like me want to know if Obama demands a strong public option or not.

Maybe Rockefeller's plan could pick up more steam and make it to "the floor" IF Obama came out said he would love to see it in the bill?

Then again, maybe he just does not like the plan, so that is why you think he should wait until it is a dead plan?

He either likes the Rockefeller approach or he does not- no harm in letting us know.

[Thrill]

145. ITS A COMMITTEE AMENDMENT

Have you just started following this stuff?

You'll know if he wants one or not. But Committee Amendments aren't the place to weigh in. Senators do these to see where the votes are. Rockefeller said himself he knew it was going to fail. You want Obama coming out saying he wants an amendment they know is going to fail? That would be all the talking heads would be talking about right now.

[Dr Fate]

147. What are you so damned afraid of? Voters having knowledge, perhaps?

Voters should know if he supports these amendments or not.

Maybe the amendments would stand a better chance at surviving IF he came out and supported them.

Maybe, just maybe, he DISAGREES with these amendments and does not want them to get to the floor. Maybe you dont want him to speak his mind b/c you know most DEMS would agree with Rockefeller and not with Obama. Since he wont say, voters like me have no choice but to guess.

What's the big damn deal? I've never, ever heard of this concept where Presidents are not supposed to state opinions on which Senators and what appraoches they agree or disagree with.

[Thrill]

151. Yeah Obama should be the only President to

weigh in on every amendment that is voted on in committee, Give me a damn break and learn the process. I suggest you go find Rockefeller, Schumer, and Harkin's comments for more info on how the process works and what they were trying to accomplish yesterday

[Dr Fate]

152. Obama would be the 1st President in History to state an opinion on a major issue?

Wow- I must have slept through that part of History class.

I never said a President should weigh in on every amendment here or there- I suggested that voters would like to know with who and what he agrees with when it comes to a major all encompasing issue like Healthcare reform and the Public Option.

We want to know if Obama AGREES with Rockefeller's version of a PO or not. You act like that is such a radical notion- to want information.

[Dr Fate]

156. More on why voters want to know (Link included)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4085289&mesg_id=4085289

[truedelphi]

131. + 1. n/t

[ProSense]

125. They don't. It's beyond ludicrous to think that Obama is going to start

fighting legislative battles in committee.

[Dr Fate]

133. It's ludicrous for Obama to tell us which Senators he agrees with...

...and which ones he does not?

If you say so, but my guess is that average voter would be fine with knowing such information.

"I like Rockefeller's approach" or "I disagree with Rockefeller's approach" - it takes five seconds.

I'd love to hear his stated opinion on this.

[saracat]

140. Some think it is "ludicrous" for Obama to have to take a stand on anything!

Look how many post how he shouldn't "commit himself' or be "trapped".
Oddly, I was with a group of ardent GOpers working on a civic nonpartisan project and they all said they would respect Obama if he "stood" for something. Their major complaint was his straddling the fence.Obama's support in my state is crashing because he is losing the indie vote as well for exactly that reason. I guess the attempt at bipartisanship or being "all things to all people" doesn't work.
This isn't about just the votes of a few Senators or reaching out to the GOP. This is about the "people".

[Dr Fate]

141. But not the average voter. The average voter would be fine knowing if he supports Rockefeller or not

You and I know both know that this is just a bunch of excuse making- as usual.

[Deep13]

130. Maybe he did. nt

[jeanpalmer]

144. Because he doesn't support it

Obviously, if he felt strongly about it, he would have twisted some arms.

[Thrill]

146. There is no bill to twist arms on yet

believe me, we will all know how strongly Obama feels about this stuff when the time comes for conference committee. Thats when the administration's hands will be all over it. It will be squarely on them then. Not dabbling in committee amendments.

[Dr Fate]

149. At that point, a strong public option might be out of play.

You act like you dont get it- we want to know if Obama supports Rockefeller's plan or not. We LIKE it. We WANT Obama to support it. We want him to SAY he supports it.

We might like Rockefeller's plan BETTER than whatever comes to conference committee. That's why maybe NOW would be the time to twist Blue Dog arms into accepting Rockefeller's approach- *if* he agrees with Rockefeller, that it is.

If there is no strong public option, then of course it will then be "safe" for Obama to weigh in at that point.

We get it- but it's still fun to make you pretend that you dont.

[Thrill]

150. You're the one that doesn't get it. The public option is

in all the other committee bills. Only one doesn't have it. And you're making a big deal about it. Not even the Senators who proposed it are. The bills have to be reconciled together. Thats the time to weigh in. The important thing is to just get something out of this committee.

You've never seen a President dabbling in committee amendments. The fights and arm twisting don't start until the bills are reconciled together.

[Dr Fate]

153. Wrong-You mean "a" Public Option. Not the exact version Rockefeller presents.

I just see no harm in Obama telling me whether he agrees with Rockefeller's version or not.

I'm guessing he does not, or he would say so.

At this point it seems like he is waiting for a very weak, "safe", watered down version to come into the media's focus before he weighs in or draws attention to it...

Trust me- I do "get it."

[Dr Fate]

148. I have no choice but to guess- and that is my guess as well. n/t

n/t

[joeycola]

154. I am beginning to wonder if he even wants a public option at this point.

[Dr Fate]

155. Since it seems to be a "keep the base guessing" strategy- you have every right to wonder or guess.

What else are we supposed to do but guess, wonder and speculate at this point?

I tend to think that he opposes the Rockefeller plan as well.

Since he apprently WANTS me to guess, I'll guess that he is waiting for the Senate to present something extrmemely watered down & "safe" before he weighs in.

[joeycola]

158. Bingo. His manta seems to be 'safe'!!

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[David Zephyr]

160. Kick.

Too late to give you an R, but your OP is spot on. You ask a question that should be posed. Thanks!