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Is Wyden's Free Choice Proposal + "Public Option" == Sorta Optional "Medicare for All"

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:40 PM
Original message
Is Wyden's Free Choice Proposal + "Public Option" == Sorta Optional "Medicare for All"
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 02:46 PM by Oregone
Empower EVERY American to choose the quality, affordable health plan that works best for them.

Health reform should give ALL Americans choices. Americans who are happy with their current
coverage should be able to choose to keep it just as Americans who are unhappy with their current
coverage should be able to reject it and choose a better plan. The Free Choice Proposal shows that it is
possible to guarantee these choices – not just for some Americans – but for ALL Americans in a way
that strengthens the employer-based health care system.

.....

Under this proposal:

1) Employers that offer group health coverage must offer the equivalent of a minimum benefit plan,
contribute at least 70% of the premium, and offer at least one other health plan of greater actuarial value;
or

2) Employers that do not offer the choice of a low cost option must offer workers a voucher worth at least
70% of the average of the three lowest cost plans in the exchange; or


3) With an adequate transition, employers can take their entire group to the exchange where they would
receive a group discount so long as they provide at least 70% of the cost of average of the three lowest
cost plans in the exchange; or

4) Employers that do not offer health insurance choices, a voucher, or go to the exchange, would have to pay
a “fair share”


http://wyden.senate.gov/newsroom/free_choice_proposal.pdf

--------

The key component of the Free Choice Act is called "cash-out." Under the Free Choice Act, if I decide that I don't like any of the health-care coverage options being offered by my employer and would prefer to choose from the many options being offered on the Health Insurance Exchange, my employer has to give me a voucher that covers 65 to 70 percent of the cost of the lowest level of exchange plan. (That is the average portion that an employer pays of his employee's health insurance premiums.) I can take that voucher and, along with whatever money I want to throw in, choose a plan on the exchange.


--------

Ive often criticized the "public option" for being fire-walled and not accessible for most Americans. In other words, it simply was not an option. It came at no surprise that the CBO score some bills with it as only covering 10-12 million people in a decade. Essentially, it covers those without insurance--a traditionally unprofitable segment of society to cover. There are too few, and they are not too desirable to cause the private insurers to lower their rates and clamor to cover them. Only opening up the "public option" to everyone will cause real competition, as well as control costs for those covered (due to negotiated rates and low overhead).

So here we have it. An amendment that would allow everyone (if the "public option" exists) to enroll in a low overhead, public, not-for-profit ("Medicare-like") insurance plan. Further...the plan would be mostly paid for by the employer (except for those below the threshold that are getting subsidies). So essentially, it would create a universal public insurance option that is not regressively funded.

Well, this could be it. Really. The true path to single-payer (if the public option is included). How could any massively for-profits really compete? . Otherwise, its just good policy to give everyone access to the exchange (regulated subsidized private insurers).

So, if there is any amendment to get fired-up about (other than Kucinich's state single-payer and Weiner's HR 676 replacement), this is it. I basically see no downsides immediately, and it would drastically improve most proposals we've all seen.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Exactly. I want a PO that could in effect become a default universal single payer system, but with
people being able to choose private care instead of or on top of the gov't plan. That would be the next best thing to the real Medicare for all deal at this point.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Agreed. That's pretty much what I hoped for from the outset
I knew true single payer was never given a serious consideration. So, a public option that is universally accessible but remains an option is an acceptable alternative. It would fit with what Obama has consistently said about market competition. If they aren't going to tightly regulate the insurance industry as in done in other countries, then an open public option is essential.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It goes further than making it universally accessible
It makes it "affordable" because the employer must cover the bulk of the costs. This is a huge issue in the debate that doesn't get enough play: progressive or regressive funding of health insurance.

Making end-users pay flat type fees for insurance premiums leads to self-rationing and under-insurance. Shifting this cost to tax-payer subsidies and employer funding goes a long way towards increasing the progressive nature of an insurance system.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. Yes... of course
I tend to take the affordability for granted with a public option in the mix but, of course, you are correct.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. where is the public option in what you excerpted?
that looked like more stuff about the employer mandate, which is definitely an improvement, but not the same as the public option.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. There are two separate issues
There will be an insurance exchange. But there are two key debates about it:

(1) Will the exchange include a public option?
(2) Who can access the exchange?

Wyden's proposal addresses question 2. It has nothing to do with question 1, which is a separate fight altogether.

All this amendment says is that the exchange should be opened to everyone. Whether the exchange will have a public option or not is a different battle.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. that gets to my other question: how is exchange any different from what a decent insurance agent...
or even several websites already do?

I don't see anything in there about actual price controls or collective bargaining to bring the assholes to their knees.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The exchange is a pooling mechanism
Right now, the individual market is completely unregulated and because there's no pooling, as there is for employees of large businesses, the plans are 3x as much, on average.

The exchange pools individuals and sets basic coverage standards that all plans have to meet. Private insurers that sign up for the exchange have to offer plans that match those standards, while also conforming to the new insurance regulations - no rescission, exclusions based on preexisting conditions, community-rating, etc. Also, the Department of Health and Human Services handles the enrollment to the exchange. It works very similarly to the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. A co-op is a pooling mechanism,
but it's still putting lipstick on a pig.

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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You don't seem to understand the exchange. At all.
The public option - IN EVERY PROPOSAL - is ONE OPTION among many options within the EXCHANGE.

The exchange is a regulated marketplace of plans that would include several private plans and a public plan.

Again, according to the House and HELP Committee bills, the exchange would be limited, both at the outset and in the long-term. All Wyden's proposal does is open it up to everybody after 5 years. Not only can large employers sign their employees up for a plan on the exchange, but even if your employer doesn't sign up for the exchange, as an individual, you can, and have your employer instead pay you a voucher.

If there is a public plan offered in the exchange, Wyden's bill would ensure that everybody could sign up for it. In the House and Senate bills as they currently stand, not everyone would be eligible for the public plan.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. You keep repeating access in five years, but it's access to more private insurance choices.
"If there is a public plan offered in the exchange"

Big if. You also are operating under the assumption that Wyden's bill is better, but it's just missing a public option.

Same time frames as the current bills, but no public option.

That's not appealing.



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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Wyden's proposal is NOT A SEPARATE BILL
It is a proposal that is being offered as an amendment to the existing bills.

It says nothing about the public option because it is an amendment that only concerns who has access to the exchange, not what plans are offered in it.

Why would this conflict with a public plan?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. What is it amending? The time frames are the same and the current bill includes a public option. n/t
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. It makes access to the exchange universal
Again. What is so complicated about this?

All this amendment does is make it possible for ANYBODY to buy a plan on the exchange. If this amendment is adopted, it does not mean that a public option will be dropped, because the amendment has nothing to do with what plans are offered in the exchange. It is purely about access to the exchange.

Seriously, what is so scary to you about this proposal?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. No it doesn't
It makes access to more private insurers available in the same time frames as the exchange with a public option.

Without a public option, that bill is nothing but a coup for the insurance companies.

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Liar
Plain and simple.

It allows people access to an exchange (which will include a "public option" if it is available). This access will be employer subsidized.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Lunatic. n/t
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Id rather be crazy than a liar
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 05:23 PM by Oregone
The truth is apparent here

You hated this proposal since you saw it. The first thing you did was try to confuse people by posting to Obama's statement on a separate bill, not this amendment. Quite honest, eh?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. And that you are. n/t
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH A PUBLIC OPTION
If there is a public option, it will exist within the exchange. Do you not understand that?

Without Wyden's proposal, access to the public option would be limited - you could only sign up for it if you were eligible for the exchange or your employer bought into the exchange.

If Wyden's proposal passes, the exchange becomes open to everybody.

Once again, Wyden's amendment has nothing to do with the plans that are offered in the exchange - it only affects who can access the exchange. Everyone (Wyden's proposal) vs. some (the current bills).
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I'm merely curious what agenda would motivate someone to obfuscate this bill?
Finally an amendment that would produce an accessible exchange (and thereby, a strong "public option" if it is in the bill), and some "democrats" oppose it. Fool me once...
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Good grief
Without Wyden's proposal, access to the public option would be limited - you could only sign up for it if you were eligible for the exchange or your employer bought into the exchange.


How is this any different from the exchanges with a public option?

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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. The current exchanges DO NOT ALLOW EVERYBODY TO ACCESS THE PUBLIC OPTION
That point has been made repeatedly. Even Obama made that point last night.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. You keep going back and forth
Me: You didn't respond to my previous questions


You:

That's how it is in the current House bill too!

In the current bills, the exchange is initially only open to the people who are already in the individual market and to employees of small businesses. In the House bill, it would expand in year 2 to cover larger businesses, and eventually the largest employers would be allowed to sign up.

The Wyden proposal does NOT CHANGE the initial setup. What it says is that in 5 years, EVERYBODY CAN JOIN. Right now, the House bill does not allow that.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. What are you arguing?
You yourself conceded that the initial timeframe is the same. Initially only the smallest businesses would be able to join.

What the current House bills state is that eventually larger businesses could join, but whether any individual could opt into the exchange would depend on whether their employer joined the exchange. Otherwise, unless individuals possibly meet an affordability test, they could not simply buy coverage from the exchange.

All that Wyden's amendment does is permit everybody to eventually join the exchange. The House bill does not do that. I don't understand what you don't get about that.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. "All that Wyden's amendment does is permit everybody to eventually join the exchange."
"What the current House bills state is that eventually larger businesses could join, but whether any individual could opt into the exchange would depend on whether their employer joined the exchange."

The question is what are you arguing?
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Can you seriously provide a straight answer to a question?
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 05:44 PM by Oregone
I have NEVER seen you simply answer a question. Ive seen you spin the night away, but thats about it.


If an employer doesn't choose the "public option"/"exchange" in the current house bill, the employee is shit-out-of-luck. This fixes that. Why is that bad?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Yes. You're wrong:
Sec. 313. Employer contributions in lieu of coverage. Requires an offering employer to contribute to the Exchange for each employee who declines the employer’s coverage offer and enters the Exchange via the affordability test outlined in the act. The contribution is generally 8% of the average salary for the employer.


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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. "... via the affordability test"
If the coverage your employer offers exceeds the affordability test set by the bill, then you are eligible for the exchange. Otherwise, you are not.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Wrong. Not everyone will qualify. Thats stated elsewhere
The exchange is firewalled. Simply refusing your employer's coverage is not enough.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. BTW, this requires the employer to pay 70%. Why are you against this?!?
Anyway you cut the eligibility issue, thats quite a motivator to support it.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Look, I give up
Either you are completely misunderstanding the current bills before Congress and the nature of Wyden's proposal, or you're being deliberately dense. The principles are really very simple. Current exchange proposal - not open to everyone. Wyden's amendment - yes, exchange open to everyone.

If you want to tilt at windmills, go right ahead. But I've made my points repeatedly.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. The Wyden Admendment is important because if the employer doesn't choose exchange/PO
The employee can choose it and have the employer subsidize the premiums. That creates universal access to the exchange/"public option".

That is the difference. In the current house bill, this is not the case.

You get it? Doubt it
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Lets look at the difference:
Scenario 1: No Wyden Amendment & "public option" - you could only sign up for the "public option" if you were eligible for the exchange or your employer bought into the exchange

Scenario 2: Wyden Amendment & "public option" - You can sign up for the "public option" despite what your employer does & they have to subsidize the premiums.

Seems like a difference to me. With the Wyden amendment, everyone has access to the exchange and the "public option" (if it passes in the bill). Further, if employed, their employer must contribute to it.

Only a fool, an idiot, a shill, or a Republican would oppose this.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. "Only a fool, an idiot, a shill, or a Republican" is this dense:
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 05:41 PM by ProSense
"Scenario 1: No Wyden Amendment & "public option" - you could only sign up for the "public option" if you were eligible for the exchange or your employer bought into the exchange"

Wrong.


"Scenario 2: Wyden Amendment & "public option" - You can sign up for the "public option" despite what your employer does & they have to subsidize the premiums."

Wrong and more wrong.




Edited typo.



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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Are you claiming the current "public option" is universally accessible to everyone?
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 06:04 PM by Oregone
Right down to the individual level?

Because it isn't. Thats the intention of Wyden's amendment (to the bill in the works)
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. No it
isnt

It's really ironic that people lambasted Obama for not daily stating support for a public option, claiming that without it, the bill amounts to a giveaway to private insurance.

Now, in the face of a bill that is a giveway to private insurance because it offers no more access than the bills with a public option, the bill becomes a better alternative.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The current bills do not promise universal access to the public option
Once again: the public option is limited to the exchange. The exchange is limited to the long-term unemployed, the self-employed, and employees of small businesses. According to the House bill, overtime, larger businesses could sign up for the exchange rather than provide coverage directly. But if your employer does NOT sign up for the exchange, you would not have access to the public option.

All Wyden's proposal does is make the exchange - and by extension, the public option - available to everybody. Period.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. You didn't respond to my previous questions:
Year 1- People who are currently in the individual market plus small employers with up to 10 workers and the uninsured have access to the exchange.



How is that universal? Businesses with more than 10 workers are excluded. How is this different from the exchange with a public option?

Also what about the uninsured, is currently in the individual market the same?

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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. That's how it is in the current House bill too!
In the current bills, the exchange is initially only open to the people who are already in the individual market and to employees of small businesses. In the House bill, it would expand in year 2 to cover larger businesses, and eventually the largest employers would be allowed to sign up.

The Wyden proposal does NOT CHANGE the initial setup. What it says is that in 5 years, EVERYBODY CAN JOIN. Right now, the House bill does not allow that.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Right, it's the same time frame, but the current bill has a public option. As for the 5 years:
Health Insurance Exchange is opened to small employers first (those with 10 or fewer employees in the first year, and 20 or fewer in the second year) and to larger employers over time.

The public option will be available through more employers after year two.

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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. If your employer doesn't sign up for the exchange, though, no public option for you
I don't understand how you think Wyden's bill conflicts with the status of the public option. It is simply a proposed amendment to the bill that allows ANYONE - regardless of whether their employer is on the exchange or not - to sign up for a plan on the exchange, including a public plan if one is included.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. "Employers that do not offer health insurance choices, a voucher, or go to the exchange"
They can opt out of Wyden's exchange.

Why do you assume employers will not want to sign up for the public option exchange?

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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. It is NOT WYDEN'S exchange
The exchange is ALREADY IN THE BILLS. All Wyden's bill allows is for anyone to buy a plan from the exchange, regardless of whether their employer signs up for it or not.

There is "public option exchange" in any current bill. The public option is ONE OPTION that may be included as a plan for offer in the exchange.

In the current bills, employers can opt out of the exchange. No large businesses are compelled to join the exchange. All Wyden's plan does is open it up to large employers earlier - if they want to - and allows individuals to buy coverage from the exchange even if their employer does not.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. "regardless of whether their employer signs up for it or not." you're misreading that.
The key component of the Free Choice Act is called "cash-out." Under the Free Choice Act, if I decide that I don't like any of the health-care coverage options being offered by my employer and would prefer to choose from the many options being offered on the Health Insurance Exchange, my employer has to give me a voucher that covers 65 to 70 percent of the cost of the lowest level of exchange plan. (That is the average portion that an employer pays of his employee's health insurance premiums.) I can take that voucher and, along with whatever money I want to throw in, choose a plan on the exchange.


Anyone can opt out of employer coverage now. Then Wyden's proposal states: "Employers that do not offer health insurance choices, a voucher, or go to the exchange would have to pay a 'fair share'"


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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. In the current bills, you cannot join the public plan OR the exchange...
... if you are offered insurance through your employer. Even if you turn it down, you can not sign up for the exchange or the public plan. It is firewalled. Only the self-employed and employees of companies that sign up for the exchange could buy a plan from the exchange. (And again, the public option would only be available as one of the plans in the exchange.)

What Wyden's proposal says is that if you want to opt-out of your employer coverage then (1) your employer has to give you a voucher to buy coverage on your own, and (2) lets you join the exchange.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Its apparent this poster wants less people in an "exchange"/"public option", not more
Its insanely suspicious.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Not true
Sec. 202. Exchange-eligible individuals and employers. Defines who is eligible for participation in the Health Insurance Exchange including employers and individuals. In year one, individuals not enrolled in other acceptable coverage are allowed into the Exchange as well as small employers with 10 or fewer employees. In year two, employers with 20 and fewer employees are allowed into the Exchange. In subsequent years, the Health Choices Commissioner is granted authority to expand employer participation as appropriate, with the goal of allowing all employers access to the Exchange.

<...>

Sec. 313. Employer contributions in lieu of coverage. Requires an offering employer to contribute to the Exchange for each employee who declines the employer’s coverage offer and enters the Exchange via the affordability test outlined in the act. The contribution is generally 8% of the average salary for the employer.

<...>

Sec. 412. Responsibilities of nonelecting employers. Establishes a payroll tax of 8% of the wages that an employer pays to its employees for employers who choose not to offer coverage. Certain small employers are exempt from this or are subject to a graduated tax rate. An exempt small business is an employer with an annual payroll that does not exceed $250,000. The 8% payroll tax phases in for employers with annual payroll from $250,000 through $400,000.

link


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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Again...
... every independent analyst, and Obama himself, have stated that the bills would not currently allow anyone to join the exchange or enroll in the public plan.

What these sections permit is that if you qualify for the exchange for affordability reasons - i.e. the plan offered by your employer exceeds the affordability measure (~15% of your income), you can sign up for the exchange. That's not everybody - only a slice.

Second, it states that if you do qualify for the exchange via the affordability test, then the employer must contribute to your premiums.

It does not allow anybody to simply access the exchange. The only way you'd be able to opt-out of your employer-offered coverage would be if you pass the affordability test.
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SWr Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. and ...
Which is completly BOGUS ... no one should decide whats affordable for my family except ME!

The middle class will take it in the shorts again.
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