In Obama's Own Words...or more reading between the lines...

[debbierlus]

Obama gave a speech today that is being heralded by some on this board as a call for a public option and a renewed fight. We must have read different speeches...

First, the public option....

"I see reform where Americans and small businesses that are shut out of health insurance today will be able to purchase coverage at a price they can afford. Where they'll be able to shop and compare in a new health insurance exchange-a marketplace where competition and choice will continue to hold down cost and help deliver them a better deal. And I continue to believe that a public option within the basket of insurance choices would help improve quality and bring down costs."

There is absolutely NOTHING new in this statement. Zero. Ziltch. Obama never has said he didn't think the public option was a good idea. The question is whether he will stand up and demand real health care reform and fight for it. Reiterating a known idea is not an indicator of whether he will fight for a real public option. Indicators would be words such as 'non-negotiable' - must have - or I will veto any bill that does not include a public option. There is nothing of substance here.

Next....

"I want a health insurance system that works as well for the American people as it does for the insurance industry. They should be free to make a profit. But they also have to be fair," the president added before asking the crowd of 5,000 people to support reform.

This is just flat out disgusting. He wants a insurance system that works AS WELL for the people as for the insurance industry. How
nice of him. They should be free to make a profit. Lovely.

If Obama really wanted to rally support for real health reform, the profits of the insurance industry and putting the American people's health as LEVEL with the profiteering of the insurance companies is not a rallying cry for reform. It is a statement vested in continuation of the status quo. The fact that Obama feels the need to state his support for the insurance companies leeching health care dollars away from actual care for the profit of corporations and shareholders is not surprising. What is surprising is democrats falling for such pro-corporatist talk as a encouraging sign for health care reform.

The insurance companies have to be fair....Why do they have to be fair Mr President? They don't exist to be fair or provide health care or help the American people in anyway. They exist to make money. They are leeches and they need to be excised. And, the fact that it is okay with you for them to continue to profit off the people at the expense of human health is SHAMEFUL.


Here's the link to the speech. Mealy mouth word parsing - eloquently executed but hollow.

This is not the speech of a man vested in fighting the insurance companies on anything. It is bullshit meant to assuage the fears of the left without offering anything of substance to assuage those fears.

Full speech here:

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/obamas-labor-day-speech-were-so-close-to-real-health-reform.php?ref=fpblg

[Cha]

1. You always read between the lines and

you always come up real short on sense but heavy on the whine.

[debbierlus]

4. What a brillant response to my post - but I doubt you even read it

[Frosty1]

49. Well I read it and...

I agree with Cha
:thumbsdown:

[debbierlus]

2. Amazing. Unrecommends within seconds of posting. You are fast readers.

But, it isn't the content of the post for you, is it?

[asdjrocky]

5. Or maybe people just know what to expect?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. We read between the lines.

and there wasn't much there.

[vaberella]

63. +1. n/t

[Autumn]

15. I think it's your name, some people

don't read what you post they just un rec, I am not sure how committed Obama is to a public option , and I find it difficult to gauge the depth of his commitment on what he has said so far but I am willing to wait and see how much he is willing to fight for it.I'm not giving up yet.

[Jackeens]

27. In fairness, you said he was a "cocky lil punk...arrogant, entitled, narcisstic snake oil salesman"

...a year before he was elected. And you've maintained that tone throughout. I'm guessing it's hard for those who support(ed) him to believe you are capable of being, well, 'fair and balanced' when assessing him. :shrug:

[vaberella]

64. Oooh...really?! But for some reason I'm not sujrprised. n/t

[dionysus]

66. it's amazing these people think no one remembers the shit they wrote in the past...

my favorite is when one of them breathlessly declares that obama has the lost support they never had for him in the first place.

[Zynx]

53. One only needs to read the first four paragraphs to know what this is.

This is like asking people to watch every Glenn Beck episode in order to judge him.

[livetohike]

3. No, I think you just look for things to confirm your negativity in

all things Obama.

[debbierlus]

6. It is really interesting that when I post, I never receive actual rebuttals to the content

...of my writing...

Is there anything specific you disagree with or are you only capable of reducing discussion to bashing the poster when it includes content you don't like?

[ProSense]

14. Oh my, a martyr. You do, you ignore them just as you do reality. n/t

[debbierlus]

20. Incoherent response, as usual. I ignore reality?

And, what reality did I ignore?

Again, no response to my post (other then an accusation that asking for specifics in some way equates to being a martyr)...

What do you disagree with?

You prove my point.

[ProSense]

23. Yes, lala land. n/t

[ProSense]

21. Here is an example of bullshit

From the OP:

"I see reform where Americans and small businesses that are shut out of health insurance today will be able to purchase coverage at a price they can afford. Where they'll be able to shop and compare in a new health insurance exchange-a marketplace where competition and choice will continue to hold down cost and help deliver them a better deal. And I continue to believe that a public option within the basket of insurance choices would help improve quality and bring down costs."

There is absolutely NOTHING new in this statement. Zero. Ziltch...

You:

Note: This is a report based on reports from aides. Obama has been hedging his support for the public option for the past month, reducing the option to a 'sliver' of the reform and sending up test balloons to gauge the public stance. If this report is true, and Obama does cave to the corporations (not Republicans, the Republicans aren't in control and he does not have to weaken health care legislation to get votes, he has received NOTHING from the Republicans for stripping the legislation thus far and they have made it plain as day their goal is to stop Obama from enacting ANY health reform)....if this is true, Obama will have verified beyond all doubt that he is a corporate frontman.

link

In other words, after pushing the line that Obama is willing to drop a public option, you are now claiming that reiterating his support for it is nothing new.

[debbierlus]

40. Uhm, he didn't reiterate support for the option - he said it was a good idea

You aren't very good at this, are you?

Obama never did say that the public option was not a good idea. He did backtrack his support for it, as per your repost above when he tried to tone down the importance of the inclusion of the public option in a final bill.

'And I continue to believe that a public option within the basket of insurance choices would help improve quality and bring down costs.'

He doesn't say that he will fight for a public option. He doesn't say that it is non-negotiable. He reiterated a known fact about his view of the option. His view isn't what is in question -

What is in question is whether he will fight for a public option and demand that it be included in the legislation - will he draw a line in the sand or say 'getting some type of reform passed is more important then the public option'

The above statement does NOTHING to answer that question. Thus, my comment about word parsing.

[ProSense]

42. More bullshit

You: Uhm, he didn't reiterate support for the option - he said it was a good idea

From the OP: Reiterating a known idea is not an indicator of whether he will fight for a real public option.

Lala land.

[joeycola]

59. You are right. There was nothing new or forceful about that speech.

[dionysus]

67. people already know whatever you post is going to be from a shitty article, that paints obama in the

worst possible light. you are a one trick pony, a one string guitar. your intentions are transparent and fool no one. the only people that agree with you are other bitter, irrational obama haters.

[babylonsister]

7. Wow. You never fail to fail. I wasn't able to see/hear the speech, but

there are many threads heralding it. And then along comes debbie... :eyes:

[debbierlus]

12. Did you even read the post, babylon? I doubt it.

What specifically do you disagree with?

That is disgusting that Obama champions the right of the insurance companies to make a profit off human illness at the expense of the money going to actual health care?

Perhaps, you like the way put the profits of the insurance companies as level with the American people receiving actual care...

How gracious of him....

This is just flat out surreal. You think statements like that indicate he is going to give any real fight against the health insurance leeches....

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. The lines

[countingbluecars]

9. To quote you, bullshit.

unrecommended

[gateley]

11. The insurance companies HAVE to make a profit if they're publicly traded --

that's why they're in business. The problem is that we've been brainwashed into thinking health insurance (business) is health care.

[Aramchek]

13. are you Chuck Todd in real life?

[pinto]

16. He led off saying he was going to leave some "detail" for Wednesday.

Yeah, he was vague. I'm willing to wait for the joint address to Congress before I call foul.

[livetohike]

17. I'll start with this from your post:

"I want a health insurance system that works as well for the American people as it does for the insurance industry. They should be free to make a profit. But they also have to be fair," the president added before asking the crowd of 5,000 people to support reform.

"This is just flat out disgusting. He wants a insurance system that works AS WELL for the people as for the insurance industry. How nice of him. They should be free to make a profit. Lovely."

Yes, they should be free to make a profit. They are a business. How much profit is enough? That's what I say and it extends to every business in our capitalistic society. Pres. Obama will get what he can in health care reform this year, but I have no doubt that he plans on improving the situation and he has 3.5 more years to do it (hopefully more). He's smart enough to know that he has to "work the system".

[debbierlus]

28. How very Republican of you -

I guess that is why we differ.

I view human illness as something that should not be treated as a commodity. I view health care as a right. And, I view the health insurance companies that provide no care as leeches that need to be excised, not proclaimed as rightful stakeholders over the American peoples' health.

If you agree with the President that human beings and their illness is just another commodity to be traded on the open market - fine. I respect that -

Just don't call yourself a liberal or defend this President as one.

[livetohike]

36. I think I may have been a Democrat before you were born

but whatever. I wasn't under any illusions that President Obama was a liberal. He wasn't my first choice but I support him and I believe I understand where he is coming from.

Please don't continue to post anti-Obama posts on a board called Democratic Underground. Perhaps free republic would like to hear your opinions.

[debbierlus]

43. When you became a democrat has nothing to do with the content of my post

And, pointing out realities that you would rather not confront isn't 'anti-obama'

If you read the journals the moderators are putting on the front page (you would have to read them as journals because people like you rate them down), they profess the same damn views...

Perhaps you should tell the administrators to leave the board and work over at Free Republic....

Especially for posting such anti-Obama stories such as this:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29988909/sick_and_wrong/2

[dionysus]

68. and everyone that doesn't agree with your editorializing is a republican. gotcha.

[lamp_shade]

18. Oh. It's YOU!

[SpartanDem]

19. You must be really desperate to find something to complain about

No reasonably intelligent person would interpret what the president said about insurance companies that way

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Justitia]

29. LOL! Now I really understand the "DebbieDowner" thing I see often after these posts - ha! -eom

[debbierlus]

35. Oh, you mean believing that the inaugural costs that DU railed against with Bush

were somehow okay because it was a democrat spending the money?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

69. oh yeah, another thing you hate about obama, his inauguration was too expensive.

:rofl:

[debbierlus]

24. Really? So, him stating that insurance companies should be free to make a profit

....is not advocating for corporate profit above people????

The health insurance companies provide no health care. None. They are a completely unnecessary entity. The Medicare program shows that a government administered health insurance is far more efficient and much cheaper.

So, why should the health insurance companies be able to make a profit off human illness and leech health care dollars away from health care?

The president is proposing cuts to Medicare which will result in less actual care being available to the people on Medicare. Shouldn't we cut out every dollar that is not health care related before we start slashing care? Wouldn't any reasonable and logical person think wasteful administrative costs should be the first to go?

So, do tell. Why should the health insurance companies be free to make a profit on human illness? Do you believe human life is a commodity and that CEO salaries and investors profit trump human life?

How very Republican of you.

[Jennicut]

54. Um, maybe because maybe we live in a semi-capitalistic country?

All businesses in the U.S. are allowed to make a profit. Doesn't mean we can't regulate the crap out of them and provide them with competition.
I see nothing wrong with his statement. Eventually, I wish they would fail and see their destruction. But the only way to do that in this country is to have single payer or a public option. Single payer does not have enough votes. Public option, even a weakened down one, opens the door to their finally being some structure to provide competition against the insurance companies.
Look, if Obama passes a crappy trigger bill then I will take him to task. So far, we don't know what will happen yet. We shall see.

[Blasphemer]

25. I have to agree. It was pretty non-committal... nothing new... nt

[Better Believe It]

26. Kick Some just can't handle the truth and would rather engage in amateurish political spin

White House staffer and amateurish wannabe's are working overtime on a holiday to push the latest talking points and political spin on President Obama's speech today.

Move along folks .... nothing to see here .... everything is fine .... every day it's getting better and better ....

[debbierlus]

30. Hey Better Believe It - one of the few reality based poster on the DU Presidential

Thanks!

[ProSense]

33. Hey, you're ignoring it again

reality

[JTFrog]

37. Because fear and hate is the only reality you guys know. n/t

[Better Believe It]

50. So you want us to love the insurance industry and drug cartel?

Right.

Why can't we just all get along and have some lovely bi-partisanship.

[dionysus]

70. ! "one of the few reality based poster on the DU Presidential"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ProSense]

31. .

:rofl:

[babylonsister]

32. Hahaha!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[grantcart]

34. yes don't actually quote the president but "read between the lines"

prejudge the Wednesday speech . . . start drafting Wednesday speech is a sell out thread before speech given . . . President

articulates support for public option but must fine SOME way to diminish that. . . same ole same ole same cast of charachters (-1)

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aramchek]

44. amateur political spin is your modus operandi

I am amazed that the convergence of such heavy irony doesn't cause your head to implode.

[firedupdem]

39. the hatred must feel miserable. poor thing. n/t

[dionysus]

71. these guys must use concentrated lemon juice instead of milk in their breakfast cereal...

[firedupdem]

72. rofl!

:rofl:

[debbierlus]

45. Just read this article and then continue to defend the indefensible

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29988909/sick_and_wrong/2

[ProSense]

46. You post an article by someone who opposes the public option to make your case?

Taibbi, doesn't support the public option. He's an all or nothing clown. Here is his dig at Kennedy:

...Even Ted Kennedy, for whom successful health care reform was to be the great vindicating achievement of his career, and Barack Obama, whose entire presidency will likely be judged by this bill, managed to come up small when the lights came on.

Rejoin reality.

[polichick]

47. What I got was his upbeat campaign tone and that...

...he'd like to have the public option but he's not banking on it. He also used the expression "health insurance reform" more than once. imo he's leaving room for a number of things to happen in the coming weeks. He didn't step out on any limbs that he can't safely (in the political sense) climb down from.

And yes, he did make it clear that he supports the "free market" system as well as a public option for choice and competition.

[inna]

48. ""I want a health insurance system that works as well for the American people as it does for the ins

"I want a health insurance system that works as well for the American people as it does for the insurance industry. They should be free to make a profit."

absolutely disgusting, is right.


kr (against all odds), thank you for the informative post.

[Better Believe It]

51. "I want a health insurance system that works better for the people than the insurance industry"

Who wrote that?

[rug]

52. Can't say that's not progressive.

"I see reform where Americans and small businesses that are shut out of health insurance today will be able to purchase coverage at a price they can afford. Where they'll be able to shop and compare in a new health insurance exchange-a marketplace where competition and choice will continue to hold down cost and help deliver them a better deal."

[donheld]

55. Dining room table

[jeanpalmer]

56. If "a public option

within the basket of insurance choices would help improve quality and bring down costs," why isn't he working to bring it about? Why would he not be a strong advocate for something that would "help improve quality and bring down costs"? And why is it not an "essential element" of his plan?

[CakeGrrl]

57. This was NOT intended to be the speech he's giving on Wednesday

But you're consistent in your pessimistic criticism, to be sure.

[jeanpalmer]

58. It looks like his plan

is to create an insurance exchange where people can buy insurance at competitive prices. If true, the questions that need to be answered are: Will it be mandatory that everyone buy insurance? What will the cost be? Will there be subsidies for low-income people?

If he's being upfront on Wednesday, he should answer these questions.

[saltpoint]

60. Just as a point of reference, debbie, do you ever offer anything

affirming?

The trend in your posts on DU leans sharply toward the negative, falling usually between the cynically dismissal and the gloomily catastrophic.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. In all of our peer nations, it is a criminal act to profit from providing

health care. Not a crime to be paid for a job, but for the company to profit is a crime. And that is a fact. The do not deserve to profit from it, nobody does. To do so is immoral.

[inna]

62. completely agree.

"I want a health insurance system that works as well for the American people as it does for the insurance industry. They should be free to make a profit. But they also have to be fair," the president added before asking the crowd of 5,000 people to support reform.

This is just flat out disgusting. He wants a insurance system that works AS WELL for the people as for the insurance industry. How
nice of him. They should be free to make a profit. Lovely.

If Obama really wanted to rally support for real health reform, the profits of the insurance industry and putting the American people's health as LEVEL with the profiteering of the insurance companies is not a rallying cry for reform. It is a statement vested in continuation of the status quo. The fact that Obama feels the need to state his support for the insurance companies leeching health care dollars away from actual care for the profit of corporations and shareholders is not surprising. What is surprising is democrats falling for such pro-corporatist talk as a encouraging sign for health care reform.

The insurance companies have to be fair....Why do they have to be fair Mr President? They don't exist to be fair or provide health care or help the American people in anyway. They exist to make money. They are leeches and they need to be excised. And, the fact that it is okay with you for them to continue to profit off the people at the expense of human health is SHAMEFUL.


Here's the link to the speech. Mealy mouth word parsing - eloquently executed but hollow.

This is not the speech of a man vested in fighting the insurance companies on anything. It is bullshit meant to assuage the fears of the left without offering anything of substance to assuage those fears.

:kick:

[dionysus]

65. your bitterness is nectar to my soul. btw, we've figured out by now you hate his ass...

:eyes: