The problem with President Barack Obama and his credibility here

[Thucydides]

Its not that he isn't intelligent, articulate, thought provoking, calculating and does not have a deep understanding of how to play the political game, to his advantage and get what he wants. Because he is all the above.

My personal observations of our new president is that he is a very unique and gifted person, the likes of which many here have never seen in their lifetime. The potential for his greatness and ability can not be seen by some. Simply because they have never seen People like MLK and JFK work their magic in the storm of social upheaval, in their day they were the calm, quite eye of the storm, while the gale force winds of social unrest swirled around them. They were able to harness those catastrophic winds and bring about historical change. Guess I am just getting old.

His real problem is that we have suffered through eight years of the Bush Administration and the Neo Fascists that ran everything. The previous eight years has caused a huge mistrust of all things Washington, its like we suffer from PTSD. It is going to take time to heal the psychological wounds and to regain public confidence, especially here at DU.

Then you add in to the mix that trolls come around fanning the flame wars whenever they get an opportunity.

I do not post much, but I have lurked a lot and have observed the dynamics involved with what has been happening here.

I just wanted share to my thoughts with everyone, because this is a place I visit often to get the real story and real facts. It is places like DU and other sites that help peel back the layers of deception by corporate America and the MSM.

Well thats my two cents, for what it is worth. :hi:

[DrDan]

1. it is a shame that what we have evolved to is that any poster here

who wants to lodge a criticism is immediately labeled a "troll". There is ABSOLUTELY no difference between that and the "unamerican" label the neocons attached to any of their critics.

In your opinion, he walks on water. For others of us, he is mortal But he carries the hopes of the all D's. And HE is losing credibility in general. (Of course, there are those here who disagree and will jump to apply that troll label.) Campaigning and running the country are two completely different efforts. He has mastered the first. Now he has to learn the second.

[Thucydides]

4. Guess you need a cup of coffee to wake up to re read the post

Where did you get "that any poster here who wants to lodge a criticism is immediately labeled a "troll", in my post? The main text of the post is about people that did not live trough the tumultuous 60's. Which I never called anyone of them "trolls". The inference was to their possible lack of experience may be the cause of some their concern about our new President.
I said when you"add to the mix", again I did not say "any one", the inference would be some, or a few are trolls!

Also, at what point did I compare him to Jesus Christ? "In your opinion, he walks on water" I did not see one quote from the scriptures in my post. However I have compared him to some great Americans and have high hopes for his success! Do you not agree that MLK and JFK were not exceptional great Americans that were the catalyst for some of the greatest changes in our history as country? Are you not hopeful that he will be successful in turning things around like they did in their day. Are you not hopeful that he will be that rare individual that elevates real social and economical change like MLK and JFK? Do you not believe that every once in a while someone of greatness can come about to ignite a social revolution and be the catalyst of great social reform.

Since you infer that I compared him to Jesus Christ. Lets look at Jesus Christ as an example. Was Jesus a man of flesh and blood, did he not suffer and bleed just like anyone on earth. Did Jesus Christ the man, regardless of fact or fiction concerning any of his miracles, not start a movement of social reform. I do not care if you are a bible thumping hard core holly roller, or a complete atheist. The fact that few dispute that this person existed and that there is great evidence that this person did in fact exist is testament alone of the power of a single mortal man to bring about great change in society. Do you dispute that a man named Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph and Mary ever existed?

"Campaigning and running the country are two completely different efforts. He has mastered the first. Now he has to learn the second."

I guess he is just way to slow for some people, eight months is way to long to wait for real change. More proof we live in an instant gratification world. Just remember in your own words "For others of us, he is mortal" all the more reason to have patients and give him time, after all he is only "mortal" and can only do so much what with so much to be done.

Great rant, however you seem to be such an angry person, much like a lot of us. We all want for this nightmare to be over. Try having some more patience, my life is no picnic either, but I do have hope and am clinging to it like a life raft at this point.

:toast:

[DrDan]

13. I stand by what I said

For all your platitudes, leadership is lacking in my opinion.

And yes - I expect to see something meaningful after 8 months.

We are not ending the war and heathcare reform is not happening. Not sure what you voted for last year, but those were my issues.
Perhaps you are satisfied with the progress of your issues, but I am not.

[boppers]

31. "those were my issues"

There's 304 million people in the same line.

Oh, and if you voted for "ending the war" (which one?), there wasn't a post-primaries democratic candidate who ran on that platform.

[DrDan]

32. ""We should have never gone there [to Iraq] in the first place,'' he said. "I will end this war in

2009"

http://cbs2chicago.com/northwestindianabureau/barack.obama.gary.2.696672.html

[Cha]

23. When they want to play the

play the victim.

"Where did you get "that any poster here who wants to lodge a criticism is immediately labeled a "troll", in my post?"

It happens everytime..your's is not the first or the last for this kind of victimhood.

[Prism]

34. Governing is not campaigning

I was one of those caught up in the magic of the campaign, who believed President Obama would be the transformative president he promised to be, a deeply intelligent man who would bring his impressive talents to the office and change the American status quo for the better.

However, once the campaign was over, it became no longer enough to merely declare these things. He has to do these things.

Some people are still stuck in the campaign. They feel the endless thrill up their leg, they declare "chess!" to explain . . . well, to explain quite simply everything the man ever does, whether or not it's good for the people or good for the corporations.

This is, flatly put, campaign propaganda transferred to the actual administration of government.

For all the exhortation of the President's deep talents - and I believe he has those talents - all the praise and propaganda have had ample time to appear not in promises, opinions, and propaganda, but in actual results. Is he the vaunted chess master who will save us all? I don't know. I'd like to see some actual proof of such a thing. After eight months, withlittle proof, and paid party operatives and devotionists simply repeating these tired, paid-for bromides, I want some evidence that America is moving Left again in a very significant way.

The stimulus was a joke. The President was out-foxed, out-classed, and pushed right into an orgy of debt that largely benefitted the banking industry and Wall Street over working, suffering Americans.

LGBT rights thus far have been a deep and deeply inexcusable betrayal of the President's campaign promises. It has been a practice in political cowardice, and it has opened the ugliest door and shined the most clarifying light on how much homophobia and bigotry yet exist in the Democratic Party, how appallingly acceptable it is, and how far we have to go even among our self-described allies.

Those two things said, the President does some things well. I very much approve of his diplomatic policy to date (and I say that as someone who had deep reservations about appointing Hillary Clinton as SoS). Some of his appointments have been inspired (Tammy Duckworth, for example).

A few months ago, I was cautiously optimistic on health care. Now I'm simply cautious. I cannot say how this will play out, but I will continue pressuring my representatives while waiting to see the final product before rendering a judgement.

If there is real, significant health care reform with a public option and without forcing tax-payers to transfer yet more billions to corporate pockets, it will go a long way towards allaying my criticisms and concerns of this President.

However, if health care reform is a betrayal of left-liberal sensibilities, if we are sold out and then end up suffering under the propagandists who tell us how awesome it all is as the right of center DLC leaders of the party attempt - yet again - to marginalize the party's base as America continues on its clueless course of corporatism, I will take it as a declaration of war. I will not hesitate to recognize and state that we have been given a potemkin presidency that, like Clinton, was intended to hold the Left at bay while appeasing the powerful while once again telling the people they must be euphoric over crumbs.

That is unacceptable. No amount of propoganda or paid-for posting will stem the civil war in the party that will come. These apologists for power can marginalize small groups like LGBTers. We don't have much power. But if they screw up health care, god help them. They won't be able to stop what comes in that event.

[Thucydides]

7. "it is a shame that what we have evolved to is that any poster here"

"who wants to lodge a criticism is immediately labeled a "troll".

You men like this...

"Do you FR-types ever tire of your clinton hatred?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=133001&mesg_id=133039

Sorry to hear your candidate lost the primary, whom ever that was!

Nice hit piece on my OP, you seem to be very good it.:eyes:

[DrDan]

9. so you had to go back more than a year to find a post you could you found "appropriate"

did you happen to read the whole thread? I doubt it.

[Thucydides]

12. What you actually replied to this one, no response to my other reply

Yes I did read the thread, which is what gave me the clue that you never supported Barack Obama, and likely never will.

Wow it took a lot of time and research. About as much time as it takes to type your name into the search box and read a few of your posts. I think it must have taken about a grand total of two minutes. Judging from your history, about everything you post is negative or argumentative.

I here there is a real good site for that, its called FR. But you already knew that didn't you. :shrug:

[DrDan]

14. I am sure you meant that you "hear" there is a good site for that . . .

but . . . .

What does that mean - support Obama. Am I to blindly follow? Not gonna do it. I will continue to post my criticism when I feel my issues (those I based my vote on) are not being pushed.

Am I satisfied with progress toward ending the war? No. Am I satisfied with the apparent direction of health reform? No.

Perhaps you are content. Good for you. I am not.

[DrDan]

18. you know what is funny - I defend a D candidate during the primary

against tired RW anti-Clinton attacks. Not even my candidate let me add.

And you label me as negative.

That is rich.

Well, buddy, your motives are all too transparent. I am not interested in your silly games. Take them elsewhere.

[Kahuna]

2. What you said and the fact that the republican noise machine...

has dumbed down America - a lot!

:hi:

[Life Long Dem]

3. Politics

I don't see a credibility issue with President Obama. I did see a credibility issue with McSame and the one who said they took on sniper fire. But as far as Obama, this goes along with the distorted misinformation we see all the time.

[Clio the Leo]

5. And reading his books might help.....

.... the chapter in "Audacity" entitled "Republicans and Democrats" describes EXACTLY what so many are upset about here. I doubt many of those who are outraged have read it.

So many want him to ram rod his legislation through Congress and that's simply not how he operates and if you read the book, it makes it abundantly clear.

There is simply NO excuse for anyone to be "shocked" or "dissapointed" at this stage in the game.

I remember reading ...... or listening rather because I have the Audiobook about him describing his approach to politics and life in general in a way that I thought I'd never hear .... and now it's a thing of beauty to watch it all unfold.

[Thucydides]

8. Unfortunately, some people have a hard time reading more than

a few snippets. Thats world in which we live these days. :fistbump:

[JohnnyLib2]

6. I appreciate the historical and long-term perspective in your OP.

It is so tempting, and such a sign of the times, to impatiently rush to conclusions when none are realistically possible.
My reading of Obama's books is that he thinks in terms of 8 years to create changes AND knows that 8 were not "given" to him in 2008.
That, too, compares to the men you mentioned.

[Thucydides]

10. I concur, we live in a world of instant gratification.

Some things just take time. I work with mother nature in my chosen profession. Ever heard the term "its like watching grass grow", thats kinda sorta what I do for a living. In my eyes the president looks like a humming bird with all that he has managed to accomplish so far.



http://www.vimeo.com/tag:hummingbird

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69qMXhyHQGo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV1ggEt8xko&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[HamdenRice]

11. Thanks for your observation. K&R nt

[ZombieHorde]

15. If Obama should be given a break for being in office for a short time,

then the people should be given a break since Obama has only been in office a short time.

Many people have little or no faith in politicians, this is not an outrageous stance.

We should give people some time to warm up to Obama.

[RagAss]

16. Freedom is on the March !

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

17. The panelist on the Bill Maher show last night made similar points. Because we dealt

with so much corruption in government--whether it be Bill's affair; Larry Craig; John Edwards; Mark Sanford; John Ensign; the giving away with billions of tax payer dollars to Wall Street; or Dumbya's 8 years of chaos--distrust of government is at an all-time with the American public.

Voters simply do not trust that government can do anything right. Perhaps this is what Republicans want. The more that they can demonize government--with the M$M as the accomplice--the greater the likelihood that they can create a failure out of Obama's presidency.

For me, that's the saddest thing. Many Dems have sided with the Republicans in pushing the fallacy of a useless government.

[Thucydides]

19. You make very good points, I think you have explained it much

better than I have. :toast:

[paulk]

20. I have seen very little evidence that Obama has

"a deep understanding of how to play the political game, to his advantage and get what he wants."

He got owned on the stimulus bill, and so far he's getting owned on the healthcare debate. Unless center right policies are what he actually "wants"...

[polichick]

22. "Unless center right policies are what he actually 'wants'..."

I'd love to know if that's what he really wants.

[paulk]

24. well, when a top aide anonymously says that the public option

is coming from "the left of the left", you've really got to wonder which side of that center line Obama's administration is sitting on...

[Peacetrain]

25. God save us from anonymous sources.. my anon. source say we will

be invading Iran to get those three hitchhikes back.. :sarcasm:

[paulk]

30. was your anon source a senior White House aide

whose words showed up in every major newspaper?

[polichick]

26. I do wonder a lot. He sure reaches out to enemies on the right...

...more than he considers friends on the left ~ and choosing Rahm was a big red flag imo.

I'm firmly in the camp of Dean's Democratic Wing of the Party.

[paulk]

29. I don't think Rahm is operating independently of Obama's wishes

If I was to pick a chief of staff, I'd go for a no holds barred kind of fighter like Rahm. Whether you agree with his politics or not - the guy gets the job done.

We must assume that the job he's getting done is the job that Obama wants.

[Cha]

21. Thanks for your contribution, I appreciate it..

But, don't ask the Fail Pushers to give him a break ..they have no intention of going anywhere but negative..and they're not interested in "helping to peel back the layers of deception by corporate America and the MSM."

The good news is ..we having brilliant researchers on DU who do expose the corporatemediawhores for what they are. A lot of people have learned over the last 8 years and beyond just how a big a stake the cmw have in undermining Real Reform and getting our country back on track from the bush+cheney+War On Iraq years that they had more than a share in creating.

[LWolf]

27. The problem with Barack Obama and his credibilty with some here?

It's not that he isn't intelligent, articulate, thought provoking, calculating and does not have a deep understanding of how to play the political game, to his advantage and get what he wants. Because he is all the above.

It's that he is a center-right politician who plays the game to his advantage.

Not to ours. Especially not if you are left-of-center.

Especially if you value liberal-left ideals.

It's not that he can't "work the magic." It's that he's not working it for the greater good.

This is a "left-wing discussion board." It's not surprising that there are enough of the left here that Obama is not universally seen as a positive leader.

[polichick]

28. Well said. nt

[DU GrovelBot]

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