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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:39 AM
Original message
Obama: Jedi or getting his ass kicked?
Howard Dean apparently thinks Obama is a genius. Let's hope Dean is right. From a post on dailykos containing a transcript of part of Dean's interview on Morning Joe:

Joe was eager to hear how upset Howard would be about the public option being dead. Chuck Todd had said it would be interesting to see if Dean would push back at all.

Thing was, Howard didn't seem upset at all. But he was eager to explain Obama's legislative strategy:

JOE: If you were Senator Dean from Vermont and the president tried to pass a health care bill that didn't have a public option in it, like this one that's going to be on the floor of the senate at some point, would you vote for a health care bill without a public option?

DEAN: I wouldn't vote for a final bill without a public option under any circumstances. Because I don't think we ought to dump $60 billion into the health insurance industry, which is what this bill would do. On the other hand, I think what is going on here is nothing more than politics. The president knows very well that you aren't really going to have health care reform without a public option. But he also knows he has to get this out of the senate. And he's got a very important member of the Finance Committee, Kent Conrad, who doesn't want to vote for this bill if it has a public option in it. And he knows he's not going to get any Republicans votes of any kind. So at the end of the day this bill's going to be written by Democrats, it's got to get out of the senate and you only need a few Democrats to take out the public option.

At this point in Howard's explanation, Joe seemed to understand and started looking very interested:

JOE: Let me explain to people what you're saying. The House is going to pass a version with a public option. The senate will pass a version without a public option. You get past the 60 votes. You go to reconciliation, you put the public option back in. And then you vote it on it and you only need 50 votes. And you get a public option.

RON BROWNSTEIN: Wow.

JOE: Is that what you're saying?

DEAN: Basically, yes.

<...>

RON BROWNSTEIN: Governor, that's a complicated political strategy...

DEAN: It's very complicated. It's why we're getting all this talk. It's why the message has to be so simple in August...what's most likely to happen, honestly, is the Republicans are going to continue, as they've made very clear, to obstruct the bill. October 16th is going to come along and that's when reconciliation kicks in. They're going to have to write this bill in the budget. There's no question in my mind about this.

After the interview, Joe looked around the table and mused:

JOE: Isn't that something? That's fascinating.

RON BROWNSTEIN: It's political gamesmanship, right?

MIKA: Yeah.

JOE: The president sells it without the public option. Nancy Pelosi puts it back in and he ends up signing the bill. So they get what they want. We'll see if it works.

So then they do a segment on Michael Vick and it's twenty minutes later. They come back from commercial and Scarborough is seen wandering around the studio looking a little spaced out, "like John McCain at the debate" says Mika.

MIKA: Um, is your mind wandering or...?

JOE: Yeah. I'm just, I'm going back to thinking about what Howard Dean said...

MIKA: Well, I know! I can't wait to ask Dr. Nancy Snyderman what she thinks about that.

And it turned out Dr. Nancy was also in awe of Dr. Dean's analysis of the congressional "chess game." She also agreed with Dean that it's not health care reform without the public option. Very nice.

I'll finish by re-posting a comment I made over at Hullabaloo this weekend:

Obama's simply not stupid enough to believe there will be a bipartisan health care bill. It's the last thing in the world the Republicans want -- no matter what's in the bill. It will never happen and Obama knows it.

The bipartisan talk is simply cover -- a PR offensive against Broder and the Village idiots to make sure the GOP is blamed for the lack of bipartisanship. The Senate Finance Committee will produce a Democratic bill by September 15th. (Remember Baucus has publicly pledged to meet that deadline with or without Republicans.) It might not have a public option but it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the eventual conference report. The conservadems will fold when faced with the prospect of voting against a public option and killing reform. Unlike '94, they have a healthy fear of failure this time. A bill has to pass and even stooges like Kent Conrad will end up casting a vote for the public option in the end.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/17/768013/-Howard-Dean-schools-Morning-Joe-on-public-option-strategy-(UPDATED-wvideosaction-item)

I also like what Jon Stewart had to say:

Mr. President, the Daily Show host said Monday night, I cant tell if youre a Jedi 10 steps ahead of everything or if this whole health-care thing is kickin your rear.

http://www.comedycentral.com/
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, Jon called it. I hope to God Dean is right.
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mcar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Gotta go with Jedi
The Force is strong in this one.

Thanks for this.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. Howard Dean is an extremely intelligent man and I do believe this is
the strategy the WH is following. I just hope it works.
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. For Gods Sakes, Obama, PLEASE listen to Dean this time!!
PLEASE ?!?!?!
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. We can only hope that Howard Dean is right.
He's a smart man, no doubt he knows more about it than we do.

We need to address the obstructionist Dems who vote more like Republicans than they do Democrats. And all of them who are indebted to the health insurance industry...they can't be objective about it, not when they're raking in contributions. We need government to start working for the people who voted them into office, instead of whoever kicks in the most cash.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. Of Course, What We're Seeing Is All Kabuki
There will be a public option. I'd bet on it.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. +1. n/t
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. I agree with this 100%. It will be on Obama's desk in the late Fall and will include a solid PO.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. With all of the, deserved, admiration we have of Dean....
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 11:14 AM by Clio the Leo
.... why are so many of suddenly ignoring what he's saying?

"There will be a public option in the final bill."

Works for me.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes, interesting. n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. Not a Jedi
and acts like a member of the Imperial Senate.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. You know what? I'm tired of your incessant negativity.
Your posts are a bummer - nothing to add, just detract.

Have a good September - October, and when we have Health Care Reform with a Public Option, despite all your current dark and cloudy moodiness, I hope you remember these daya, and apologize for your gloom.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. knr. we'll see if Dean has it correctly.....
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. I like Dr Dean's analysis on the outcome.
Very interesting.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. Both.
Like a Jedi, though, he will pull off some victory. Getting his ass kicked wasn't optional, though; it's what he signed up for, and that may be the biggest reason I respect our president. He can take the kind of ass-kicking that his predecessor could never have endured.
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. I think this is a very important point. Obama isn't caving. He's battling in a serious fight
against some very determined adversaries. The big surprise to his opponents is going to be his fortitude and persistence he will continue to exhibit in getting this bill passed with a solid public option. The GOP is going to complete its implosion sequence in late Fall when they're forced to realize they're fighting against an incredible POTUS with enormous support.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not at all a complicated strategy.
Just a possible basic necessity because of the undemocratic rules of the Senate.
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well, since I see the world through rose-colored glasses...
...I'm going to go with Jedi on this one. The only thing Obama has failed me on is DADT. Other than that, he's been about 5 steps ahead of everything.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Who was the right winger who asserted that Obama doesn't understand how D.C. works
It was recently.

I've been very worried about all this. But last night, Dean on KO's program was like a breath of fresh air. I hope to heaven that he's right. Seems quite plausible. And if we keep pressing on the Public Option that isn't a Co-Op, we might just get something we can call "progress".

Seems like I heard another conversation somewhere this past week about how the only thing that matters is the budget committee and how the bill will be written by the White House and Baucus.

I'm glad I have appointments this afternoon and will be away from tv and the net for several hours.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. Rope-A-Dope they azz's right out of congress!!!!
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. Do jedis play chess? n/t
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Yeah, but only the cool 3 D holographic kind
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. And they are always 10 quadrillion billion zillion moves ahead of everyone else. n/t
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. He's a Jedi who's getting his ass kicked because he refuses to use the Force or his lightsaber
Sorry, that's my dorky analogy. ;)
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You win with your dorky analogy.
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 01:10 PM by SIMPLYB1980
But isn't that what Yoda would teach. Only use the force as a last resort, and only to protect the people.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Good one! nt
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. The Force or the lightsaber will come out in the final round if he hasn't shifted the momentum
greatly in favor of his goals.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Dr. Dean has been the true "chess player" all along in this fight.
If Obama is also playing chess, I just hope he's using the same board. Because the good doctor's strategy only works if the Prez holds them to it, and vetoes any shit bill that reaches his desk. Assuming the problem is not resolved in reconciliation.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. Very interesting analysis. Obama's brain and that of his team have been underestimated before
Nothing strategic that he does should surprise anyone anymore.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. This is what FrenchieCat said on Sunday
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 06:12 PM by CreekDog
sort of.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8592463

I was skeptical to say the least, but the logic is there.

Will it really play out that way?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. I think she's right. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. Obama is a long distance runner. He's not a super hero or a victim.
But he can outlast us, he can outlast them. That's one of his strengths.

It's counter intuitive to be patient in a 24/7 news cycle but, afaik, that's how you win.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:56 PM
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
32. Of course, it's "complicated"!
Thanks Gov Dr Dean..my hero from the old days:patriot:

He's helping Obama and us a LOT!:bounce:
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
34. Jedi. Obama and Dean, my two favorite politicians ever. I'm with them.
Not the handwringing screaming crybabies like Arianna FuckingHuffington who is an expert at nothing.
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. I really hope this is how it goes down. I trust Dean.
If we get a good public option, Pres Obama is a Jedi.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. K&R -- most (reasonably) hopeful post I've seen in ages on healthcare --
50 votes, not 60! Makes sense! Go, Obama, go! :)
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
37. Djedi
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