Clinton: I'm secretary of state, not Bill

[masuki bance]

KINSHASA, Congo — U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's temper flared on Monday when a Congolese university student asked for her husband's thinking on an international matter.

"My husband is not secretary of state. I am," an obviously annoyed Clinton replied sharply.

A week after former President Bill Clinton traveled to North Korea to secure the release of two detained American journalists and stole the limelight from the start of his wife's first trip to Africa, Clinton was clearly nettled by the question at a town hall forum in Kinshasa.

"You want me to tell you what my husband thinks?" she replied incredulously when the male student asked her what "Mr. Clinton" thought of World Bank concerns about a multibillion-dollar Chinese loan offer to the Democratic Republic of Congo. . "If you want my opinion, I will tell you my opinion. I am not going to be channeling my husband," she said.

...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hJUIqTHOETG5ziqX7qtQz8ZjOfvgD9A07PC80

Good for her, Bill is important but this is getting ridiculous.

[tabasco]

1. Letting her temper and ego get the best of her.

Too bad.

Probably embarrassed the student.

[paulk]

2. yup,

that will be the right wing spin...

[tabasco]

6. It's not spin when it's the truth. n/t

[Jim Sagle]

14. It's not the truth, it's right wing spin.

[tabasco]

17. Why?

[Jim Sagle]

21. Because her response was NOT " Letting her temper and ego get the best of her".

Rather, it was a sharp rebuke to a sexist comment.

[tabasco]

23. That's laughable.

[Jim Sagle]

46. Only to sexist bozos. To anyone else, not so much.

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. It was an untempered reaction to a MISTRANSLATED QUESTION.

Jesus Christ.

[wisteria]

31. She seemed riled and defensive. Although the question was misquoted she could have considered that

before behaving as she did.

[polmaven]

144. You are aware, are you not

that she did not KNOW that the question was mistranslated? The question, AS SHE HEARD IT, was extremely sexist, and she reacted to it. Her reaction was justified, in my opinion. But then, what could I possibly know, bing female, and all? I mean, I have only my brain with which to think.

[butterfly77]

172. I agree..

[wisteria]

30. It sounded otherwise to me. She seemed defensive. Her response could have been better. n/t

[ruggerson]

42. I agree, she seemed almost Kerry-like in her defensiveness and choice of words

:hi:

[ProSense]

44. WTF?

When was Kerry every rude to a questioner?

[masuki bance]

49. Don't taze me bro?

ɯsɐɔɹɐs/

[ruggerson]

51. lol

n/t

[ProSense]

52. Anything to excuse Hillary's behavior, huh. Kerry wasn't rude to the

questioner. The person was being belligerent.

Kerry has made numerous overseas trip, and he doesn't go over there insulting people.

[masuki bance]

58. I think you missed the little sarcasm tag. nt

[ronnykmarshall]

161. Oh please

this is coming from "Bash Hillary at any cost" poster child.

What a fucking load of shit.

[wisteria]

65. LOL, there was no rudness on his part. He suggested the person be allowed to continue speaking and

he wanted to answer his question.
I think you have the campus police confused with Kerry.

[karynnj]

129. Actually, Kerry was quite polite to him

Kerry allowed him to ask a question when he first acted up when he was too far back in the line to get a question and the police were going to remove him. He also did try to engage him to calm him down, but Meyers was out to create a confrontation and did.

Meyers was out of line, the police were out of line and the peopl running the event were out of line. Kerry wasn't - the police did not LET Kerry control the situation.

(This for those not getting the sarcasm tag)

[wisteria]

63. You are joking? I can't imagine Senator Kerry ever becoming defensive and unprofessional

when asked about a Clinton-either one of them. And, this has nothing to do with him. SOS Clinton was wrong.

[saltpoint]

102. Agree. Kerry would have handled this very well, keeping the

big picture in mind.

Who knows what HClinton was thinking?

[Metric System]

107. lol

[wisteria]

205. Your laughter is misplaced. n/t

[karynnj]

128. This is anti-Kerry like as anything I have ever seen. I have seen Kerry respond with politeness

to incredibly rude questions - never losing his temper or dignity. Even Obama, has shown more anger than Kerry. In fact, I have seen thousands of posts right here - on DU - where it was argued that he NEEDED to show greater anger.

This is actually where they are opposites - this is something Kerry has never done. Even in 2004, it was Dean who responded with anger to a heckler. Kerry never did - not even in 1971, as a 27 year old.


As to choice of words, Kerry would never use these.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

159. Hillary needs a thicker skin- BC was just triumphant in rescuing those 2 women, what's the big deal?

[Dennis Donovan]

4. According to Tweety, the translator mistranlated the question...

...it was asked by the student what SoS Clinton's opinion was, not President Clinton's. The translator translated it into a question posed to the President, not the Secretary.:shrug:

[emilyg]

16. That's what I heard, too.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

103. +1.

I didn't want to agree, but she did fly off the handle even if the question was wrongly translated.

[quickesst]

150. I wonder if the new health care plan...

...will cover illnesses such as Clinton Fever. I hope so. Thanks.
quickesst

[ronnykmarshall]

162. It's chronic at DU.

[wisteria]

232. Unless she is trying to redefine the role of SOS and make it an undiplomatic one. n/t

[saltpoint]

104. She's supposed to drive the bus, not stick her fanny out its window.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

214. Yeah, but she looked so good doing it. Did you see the outfit she was wearing?

[saltpoint]

215. I couldn't see the outfit because her ego was glowing so brightly.

[DURHAM D]

3. Good for her.

Fuck the little sexist bastard that asked the question and fuck the little sexist bastard that colored the reporting.

Pigs - just pigs, squealing because of the lady parts.

[masuki bance]

5. Comes down to fear of a strong, intelligent woman. nt

[DURHAM D]

9. Yep -

I love this kind of thread - all the so called progressives and Dems show their real sexist colors.

[karynnj]

132. No, it shows the length you are willing to go to to avoid thinking

Hillary Clinton is less than perfect every minute of the day. It is not sexist to say this was not the most diplomatic response the top diplomat gave.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

216. That's why Hillary is relegated to places like the Congo and Bill gets the more high profile gigs.

[Captain Hilts]

11. It's a broken record, isn't it? nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Wrong. It comes down to a mistranslation. Nothing more than that.

[wisteria]

33. What? I don't think the person answering the question feared or even disrespected Clinton.

It appears the translator quoted the questioner.

[karynnj]

131. No it doesn't It comes down to an intelligent woman becoming too brittle or frazzled to take

a question that was at worse annoying in stride - in a foreign country representing our country.

I have no idea what really caused her burst of anger, but it was unwarranted.

[saltpoint]

133. Seconded.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. You serious, Clark?

[tabasco]

12. Seek help.

Now.

[DURHAM D]

15. Spoken like a real man.

:sarcasm:

[tabasco]

19. LOL

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. The "little sexist bastard" had his question MISTRANSLATED.

Pigs? You're going to stand by that knowing that it was a mistake and she shook his hand afterward?

[wisteria]

32. Oh brother. Was it still sexist if the questioner really meant Pres. Obama? n/t

[DURHAM D]

34. No.

That is not how the thread started however.

[karynnj]

134. Even President Clinton is borderline

and could represent simply a fascination with the former President - her husband. It still did not justify public anger. She knows she is the SoS.

[Brother Buzz]

7. Secretary of State's job is diplomacy

Letting a student rattle you cage is not good.

[wisteria]

35. you are exactly right. There were any number of better answers that the defensive one she gave.

She could have even made a joke out of it rather than make the entire situation more tense.

[Brother Buzz]

57. Making a joke of it would have been super but it is my opinion that humor is...

Hillary Clinton's weakest suit. Her spring was wound too tight. Check out the video.

[Beacool]

78. Actually you're wrong, Hillary is wicked funny off stage.

But I do agree that she sounded defensive.

[Brother Buzz]

92. Wicked funny is subjective, no?

My opinion is my opinion. Her brand of humor doesn't send me. :shrug:

[DevonRex]

8. I'm glad she said what she did. The question was demeaning, IMO.

[wisteria]

36. The questioner meant Pres. Obama- would that still be a demeaning question?

And, do you really think a SOS should jump to conclusions and become defensive in public? Is this real diplomacy?

[DevonRex]

38. She answered the question as it was translated. Next. nt

[Doctor_Horrible]

13. Good for her!! mistranslated question or not - she didn't know that at the time and I am glad she

took such a strong stance.

[wisteria]

39. What? By becoming defensive and undiplomatic? There were many ways she could have answered this

question that would have made her appear more in control and diplomatic.

[Doctor_Horrible]

173. oh please - I just rewatched the video- there was nothing wrong with her response. it was direct and

to the point. Once she understood that the question was mistranslated, she discussed it with the student. The poutrage about her being "testy" is just ridiculous. I for one, think she set a great example for women who are asked -albeit in smaller settings - what their husbands think about things like car/house repairs. Example... I went car shopping the other day and the asshole asked me if I wanted to wait to talk to my husband before going inside to negotiate. I told him I wasn't married... "oh, do you want your dad to be here?"

However, all of this is clearly an opinion. YMMV

[wisteria]

208. Welcome to the real world. Sexism is still alive and well. However,

IMO, as a former member of the National Organization for Women, I found her comments very defensive, caustic and very unprofessional. Everyone in that room knew who she was and were aware that she is our top diplomat. As our SOS, she should carry herself with more self-confidence and exercise better diplomacy. She did neither in this case - respect is earned by ones actions and deeds- and is not demanded.

[Doctor_Horrible]

213. I don't need you or your expired NOW card to welcome me to the real world. No matter how many times

you tell me how you found her to be defensive/unprofessional, I'm going to disagree. While everyone in that room knew who/what she is... there were women - truly oppressed women - listening to her. They were able to see a clear demonstration of how the question AS SHE UNDERSTOOD IT TO BE TRANSLATED could be answered by a self-confident, self-possessed woman who doesn't need to channel her husband to answer a question. I couldn't have been happier with her reaction. But again - YFMMV. Keep beating your dead horse up and down this thread - I STILL won't agree with you - regardless of your NOW status.

[marshall]

149. Reminds me of Rosanne Rosannadanna

She would go off on a tangent and after some time she would be told that she had misunderstood the question or comment, and her reply was a rather meek "Oh, never mind."

[ronnykmarshall]

163. That's Emily Litella.

[marshall]

188. Thanks for the correction

Gilda was wonderful.

[dionysus]

18. good for hillary. i'd be pissed too.

[dalaigh lllama]

20. "It was not immediately clear why Clinton reacted with such umbrage"

Really? Really! :eyes:

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. It WAS a mistake, and she was NOT diplomatic, by any stretch of the imagination. Video here.

http://www.youtube.com/v/3_BsvqNnMZU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0

[wisteria]

41. I have to agree. This is very unusual behavior coming from a SOS. n/t

[ruggerson]

43. Highly, highly unusual. I'm deeply, DEEPLY concerned about this

n/t

[wisteria]

69. I am sure you are. What would you propose we do about it? n/t

[saltpoint]

101. Left to me, I'd replace her.

She sounded in way over her head. Her body language alone did not suggest big-picture problem-solving. The student's "thank you" at the end of his question is plainly heard. He was the diplomat in this exhcange, not Sec. Clinton. And to make matters worse she lost an opportunity to make global issues the point and reduced the event to a gossip item in which she's on 24-hour cable replays sounding like she's jealous of her husband.

Good Christ.

[Metric System]

111. Of course you would replace her. No shock that you'd jump all over this and conflate it.

[saltpoint]

114. No one had to lift a finger on this story, MS. Secretary Clinton

made a mistake.

Don't imagine that everyone loves HClinton as you do. A good number of us voted against her in the primary campaign, and with good reason. Her campaign was very poorly run. She lost a 12-month commanding lead in public opinion polling, finishing third in the Iowa caucus.

In the present case a student asks her a question on a global issue and she turns it into a snarky, petulant issue in which SHE is a victim.

Jesus.

[Metric System]

115. I'm not about to rehash the primaries. Sorry.

[saltpoint]

117. And you don't have a point in this argument, either.

She's among the weakest of Obama's Cabinet choices.

[Metric System]

119. "She's among the weakest of Obama's Cabinet choices." In your opinion.

[saltpoint]

120. And indeed, what right do I have posting opinions on opinion boards.

May God strike me dead.

[Metric System]

122. That's kind of an over-the-top reaction given my benign post. Of course you have a right to your

opinion and I was simply highlighting that what you wrote is indeed an opinion and not fact (since you wrote it with such matter-of-factness).

[saltpoint]

124. That's how it goes in the world of opinions.

Buckle up and hold on tight.

[wisteria]

211. Don't you know that since you don't care for her, her supporters think you can't post a fair

and unbiased opinion. It is their excuse for every unfavorable comment directed toward her- it couldn't possibly be that sometimes she is just wrong.

[saltpoint]

217. It's odd. She has an important job. She sounded quite defensive and

jealous of her husband in this exchange with this student.

When she does something right and is praised for it, the right she does is its own point and has nothing to do with her being female.

When she does something wrong -- say, a presidential primary campaign or national health care reform -- and is criticized for it, the wrong she does is also its own point and has nothing to do with her being female.

Hi, wisteria. Good to run into you. Hope all's well your way.

[wisteria]

209. You make some good points. n/t

[nonsequitur]

218. I agree too. I was shocked when I saw her almost come unglued. it was a wtf moment...

Maybe she was tired, but it shocked the hell out of me. She's usually so composed.

[karynnj]

236. I was surprised, but not shocked

This is like what was seen when things went badly in the campaign and she was tired and stressed. The normally composed gracious Clinton disappeared and this more brittle, angry woman appears. Here, the stunning thing is that it took so little to push her to that edge.

Many Democrats on TV are now calling this "human" and "honest". That is the best spin available, but I suspect that the seemingly spontaneous comment that they couldn't believe she is that insecure was one of the few genuine reactions.

[ProSense]

45. That's uncomfortable to watch. n/t

[ruggerson]

50. Deeply, deeply uncomfortable. I squirmed. Very, very concerned.

[ProSense]

53. Yeah, it was embarrassing, jokes about Kerry aside. n/t

[wisteria]

71. I am sure you are. n/t

[vaberella]

105. Are you serious? Well I'm not that concerned.

I think she needs to check herself in future and be a bit more calm in situations....

[Blasphemer]

55. Very unfortunate

When I first read the story, I understood why she would have been annoyed but I did not imagine that the tone of her voice would have belied quite that degree of frustration. She definitely could have expressed the same sentiment (which was appropriate given the translation she heard) without being quite so exasperated with the questioner. I will say that I got the feeling that her frustration was not just based on that one question. I wish there was video of more of the Q&A session. I'm not willing to question her diplomatic abilities over a minute long clip out of the hundreds of hours she had put it. I'll chalk it up to a bad day. I hope the misunderstanding was/is eventually sorted out and everyone involved understands that a mistranslation was the root cause.

[Number23]

68. I love Hillary. Always will. But she has lost her damned mind. That was so unprofessional

And so very unlike how she normally is. She knows it too.

[karynnj]

135. WOW

The visual is really unappealing there. HRC is way out of line.

[BlooInBloo]

171. Wow. That was ugly. I thought she was going to jump into the crowd and kick the guy's ass.

[AspenRose]

184. *nodding*

[karynnj]

237. You know - without the video - I would think that comment unlikely,

but she really did.

[BlooInBloo]

259. Yah - I was happy to write it off to context or something until I saw the video.

[hulka38]

27. I'm an Obama backer from way back and was pretty anti Hillary in the primary

but give this woman a break.

[ruggerson]

28. "WHAT DOES MR. CLINTON THINK THROUGH THE MOUTH OF MRS. CLINTON?"

Whether the translator screwed it up or not, THAT was the VERBATIM question that was asked.

Any sane person would respond with a WTF grin of disbelief, as she did.

Gotta love how the media filters out the important things, like what the actual question was.

[DevonRex]

47. Agreed. nt

[Starry Messenger]

54. Whoa.

I think she was quite funny in her response. That question makes her sound like a meat puppet for her husband. I would have been seething.

[cherokeeprogressive]

56. She responded with a "grin"? I must have missed that part.

[ProSense]

59. The question was a poor translation, but that is no excuse for the reaction.

This is a foreign country, cultures are different. The situation appears to have been handled, but this was not a good thing to see.

<...>

At the State Department, Assistant Secretary P.J. Crowley said the question she heard "struck a nerve" — that her opinion on the matter was apparently of less interest than that of her husband, the former president.

Crowley told CNN her answer must be considered in the context of her African trip.

"The Secretary of State is going to Goma Tuesday, to draw attention to the plight of women who are victims of rape as a weapon of war" in Congo, he said. "She did react to what she heard," Crowley explained. Even if the interpreter mixed up the translation, he said, "you can't separate the question from the setting."


"If Africa, if Congo is going to advance, women have to play a more significant role," Crowley said. "She was in the setting of a town hall, and the questioner was interested in what two men thought, not the Secretary of State."

Crowley, who has just returned to Washington after traveling with Secretary Clinton during the first part of her trip to Africa, said the State Department has not yet reviewed recordings of the original question in French to learn whether the student clearly intended the question to refer to President Obama, not former President Clinton.

"She did talk with the student afterward, and they seemed to have reached an understanding," Crowley said.

link

She should never have reacted in that manner.

[paulk]

60. I guess you'll be applying for a job with the diplomatic corps,

then, since you're such an expert in diplomacy.

'course, since you wear your Hillary hatred right there on your sleeve, I doubt you'll get the job.

[ProSense]

61. You're right, my bad.

Her response was great. She should respond like that to every misunderstanding. The video collection will be in hot demand.

You put me in my place. Sorry.

[paulk]

66. "misunderstanding" in hindsight

[hulka38]

76. This is all very minor stuff. Hillary will be a good SoS. You should've taken her off white whale

status a year ago.

[wisteria]

74. You seem overtly sensitive to the suggestion that SOS Clinton

was unprofessional and let her temper get the best of her.
Like or dislike for Clinton has nothing to do with the fact that for many people this was an inappropriate personal comment coming from our SOS- America's top diplomat.

[paulk]

86. you seem overly sensitive to Hillary Clinton, period.

both you and I know that your 2nd sentence is bullshit, btw.

there are many people on this board who drool for the chance to attack Hillary Clinton for any slight, real or imagined.

[Beacool]

79. Good one!!

Some things never change........

:eyes:



:7

[noiretextatique]

262. n a country where women are chattel

a male student insults the female us sos. kudos to clinton for putting the jackass in his place.

[phleshdef]

29. SOS or not, people do want to know what Bill Clinton thinks, she is gonna get questions like that...

Wrong or right, thats just how it is. I like Hillary Clinton and I think she is a great asset to this country for many, many reasons. But its no secret that her personality can get the best of her at times. Thats somewhat true for the majority of prominent political figures in this day and age. She needs to get over the fact that being Bill Clinton's wife means you are going to get questioned on what he thinks. The Clinton years were all right, especially compared to the years that came after, and people remember that. Throw Bill's recent actions into the mix and I don't see how she could be surprised at the curiousness regarding Bill's thoughts on an issue. Thats what its like to be Hillary Clinton. She isn't second to Bill but Bill isn't second to her either.

[Bolo Boffin]

37. Time for a beer summit. :D n/t

[derby378]

40. Don't congratulate Hillary - the translator fucked up big time

Which means we've got one pissed off Secretary of State and one dejected, confused Congolese student who never got an answer to his real question.

The translator needs to be fired. Or at least reassigned to something stateside.

[invictus]

48. Hillary needs to learn how to control her temper. That was embarrassing.

http://www.youtube.com/v/3_BsvqNnMZU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0

[Lord Helmet]

64. After viewing the video you posted, I tend to agree.

[Becky72]

91. I think that those who hate Hillary pretend that it was embarassing

Just a theory.

[vaberella]

109. I think you're reaching and it's not a theory.

Look at post #22. That reaction is a bit OTT if you ask me. Even if we think the translation was right, she could have answered a little less irate. Added to that this seems to be in lieu of the Clinton/Gore triumph in North Korea. However, that would be the case if the translation was correct. But it wasn't, it was incorrect, and her response was a bit overly aggressive and annoyed. I don't see this as a big deal, but it would cause some attention calling and interesting.

On edit..welcome to DU.:hi:

[saltpoint]

112. If that's your theory, it needs some work.

[karynnj]

140. Here's a clue for you

I am a 59 year old mother of three girls. This was very embarrassing as a reaction of our top diplomat. Look at the polite demeanor of the kid who asked the question. There was NOTHING belligerent there.

Even if the question had been as translated, it could have been out of his male dominated culture. A friendly, polite, definition of current roles, done with a smile and an answer to the question is what should have happened.

I am not a HRC fan, for which I have my reasons, but my reaction here is to that video. She will be lucky if it gets scant play.

[wisteria]

157. The reaction of many to her comments have nothing to do with personal feelings about her.

People can make an honest judgment regarding these comments she made and not allow bias to become a part of the judgment.

It is a poor excuse to brush off serious comments regarding our SOS by neatly suggesting it is all do to hate, that is nonsense.

[paulk]

62. I wonder if a male SOS had responded angrily

to a stupid question, what the response would be...

[wisteria]

67. Surely, SOS Clinton is not the first female SOS to be asked a stupid question.

I don't recall any reports of them getting defensive and angry.

[paulk]

72. there's only been two others

not a lot to draw from - and I don't think either of them was asked to be a mouthpiece for their husband. Especially Condi.

and really, that's not the point, is it?

the point is that women, and especially Hillary Clinton, are judged differently than men. And what is strangest about it is that those whose judgment is the harshest are often other women.

[wisteria]

75. True, but I am sure they must have been asked other types of

questions or perhaps even treated differently because they were women. When you consider how some countries view the importance of their women, things like this are bound to come up.

[paulk]

77. countries like the Democratic Republic of the Congo?

"The United Nations Committee on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women in 2006 expressed concern that in the post-war transition period, the promotion of women’s human rights and gender equality is not seen as a priority.<29>

In eastern Congo, the prevalence and intensity of rape and other sexual violence is described as the worst in the world.<4> A 2006 report by the African Association for the Defence of Human Rights prepared for that committee provides a broad overview of issues confronting women in the DRC in law and in daily life.<30> They have been raped during warfare and kept as slaves for soldiers. When the women are released, most killed themselves or checked into a hospital where they would die.

The war has made the life of women more precarious. Violence against women seems to be perceived by large sectors of society to be normal.<31> In July 2007, the International Committee of the Red Cross expressed concern about the situation in eastern DRC.<32> A phenomenon of 'pendulum displacement' has developed, where people hasten at night to safety. According to the UN Special Rapporteur on Violence, Yakin Ertürk, who toured eastern Congo in July 2007, violence against women in North and South Kivu included “unimaginable brutality”. "Armed groups attack local communities, loot, rape, kidnap women and children and make them work as sexual slaves," Ertürk said."


--------------------


Maybe this is why her reaction to the question was so forceful.

[Beacool]

80. Sure they were!!!

Didn't Condi once call Bush her husband?

:7

[karynnj]

143. The problem is that no one other than HRC has been in exactly that situation

Even turning it around - to men asked their wife's opinion doesn't work. (ie asking if Obama would have responded to being asked Michelle's opinion - or Kerry being asked Teresa's - does not carry the same history. Both of them would likely start with a huge grin or smile.)

The only way to look at it, to see it compared to anything else, is to ask if there was ever such an angry, condescending response given in a similar forum to a non-belligerent question.

[beachmom]

83. I think that Angela Merkel or Margaret Thatcher would understand

that a student in Africa who is essentially powerless, talking to someone who is very powerful like a Secretary of State of the most powerful country in the world, should be given some slack (and we now know it was a mistranslation).

I only think that perhaps Hillary was tired. She made a mistake here.

[paulk]

87. perhaps, as a woman, she was a little on edge from being

in a country the UN ranks as number one for violence against women.

[beachmom]

89. I am quite familiar with the situation for women in Africa, and the Congo in particular.

But Hillary did not further THE CAUSE of women's rights with her outburst. Being poised and professional and unrattled would have.

[saltpoint]

110. Fire fighters sometimes have to go into buildings that are on fire.

It's a tough job.

[paulk]

126. I imagine that going around internet message boards

and spreading the Hillary hate is a tough job, too.

[saltpoint]

127. I wouldn't know.

But she was taken on as Secretary of State and a student's relatively harmless inquiry appeared to send her into a tiny tempest.

As others in this thread have suggested, the Secretary of State's job is diplomacy.

[paulk]

200. you wouldn't know?

hard to believe after reading your posts on this thread.

[saltpoint]

201. You should ratchet up your faith in the possible.

[karynnj]

138. Likely calls that he be replaced

Watch the video. Even as mistranslated, she could have pleasantly "educated" the student - that her husband was no longer President and she represented Obama as SoS - and i given the administration position.

[deep1]

70. Temper temper..........

Who the hell said she wasn't? Never liked the woman. Obama just handed her the job to shut her up and her fervent puma supporters.

If it weren't for Bill she wouldn't even get as high as the votes she did during the primaries. He is an asset for her.

Bill is still an ex president, a beloved one, and he is still important.

There is a way to be assertive without being seen as a ball breaking you know what............look at the southern steel magnolias like governor Bev Purdue who is strong willed without being nasty. That's how you go through people.

He cheats on her over and over again yet she still continues to stay with him. Hmm, wonder why?

People turn off to that aggressiveness, whether in men or women. But it seems on this thread, it's cool for a woman to act like a jerk, "she's taking it to the Man"! Women being nasty is acceptable here.

Sad.

[Beacool]

81. What you know about Hillary can be filled in a thimble.

Go hate on someone else........

:eyes:

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PeaceNikki]

169. Seconded.

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

242. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raffi Ella]

257. "...without being seen as a ball breaking you know what..."

A BALL BREAKING BITCH!??? HELLO DICK ARMY!


Go to hell and take that sexist shit with you. How fucking dare you bring that to D.U. How fucking DARE you for a SECOND think it would be alright to say such a thing HERE!



YOUR attitude is EXACTLY what misogynistic people throughout history have courted and counted on to CONTINUE the misogyny! Hillary CLinton acted angrily - TOUGH SHIT if you interpreted as a BALL BREAKING BITCH. Women are not men- DEAL WITH IT!

[beachmom]

82. Highly unprofessional. Perhaps she has had a lack of sleep?

Regardless of what I think of her politics, I have never seen Hillary Clinton behave like this. Very strange. And the translating was choppy. She should have rephrased the question, and then answered it.

[CakeGrrl]

84. She could learn from the President about keeping levelheaded when

asked some really dumbass or bizarre questions. Unfortunately our worthless MSM is great at doing that so he's very adept at dealing with it.

[Beacool]

88. Yeah, she should learn from Obama.

Remember the "stupid" remark? That went over well.......

:eyes:



:7

[CakeGrrl]

95. Not his fault that it was blown up by a bunch of mediawhores

Reasonable people understood it and knew what he meant - and many agreed.

Anyhoo, not a great showing by the top diplomat, especially when it wasn't the questioner's fault the question got mangled.

And this wasn't about whether or not the best words were used; it was about the tenor of the response.

[Clintonista2]

106. Gee you're right, cause the mediawhores NEVER make up shit about the Clintons

:eyes:

[saltpoint]

108. No one had to in this instance. HClinton's comments are on videotape

and have likely made the rounds.
Her petulant behavior turned what ought to have been a focus on a world concern and legitimate issue into her own private huffiness. She made the global selfishly personal, exactly the reverse of what diplomats do for a living.

There was no distortion of Sec. Clinton.

[Clintonista2]

192. Actually I watched the video and was pretty surprised

She held herself back much more than I would have.

[saltpoint]

198. Good thing you aren't Secretary of State, then.

[wisteria]

206. Wow, you must be a very uncontrollable hothead who doesn't think before they speak. n/t

[CakeGrrl]

179. You're getting away from my point

I never said the media DIDN'T go after the Clintons. That doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making.

The poster was trying to imply that President Obama is not a good example of pressure under fire because of his comment about Gates.

I'm pointing out that his response was not reactive and defensive, in contrast to Hillary's. IMO, he is simply better at not letting really stupid questions rattle him.

[karynnj]

147. The stupid remark was stupid - and Obama paid for it and made up for it

Obama had said first that he did not have all the details. His wording was poor, but the intent seemed to be that the police should have been able to keep this from going as far as an arrest. In that way, the police actions should have been different.

Obama has answered many far ruder questions, and done so keeping his humor and dignity.

I agree with Beachmom, maybe HRC was tired. In the campaign, the same brittleness showed at the end when she was exhausted. You have to admit that this is not HRC at her best.

[Beacool]

175. No, it wasn't.

I'm just pointing out that all of them make mistakes. She's as human as the next person, and as the SD spokesman said, it touched a nerve.

[karynnj]

182. True - and she has often received more of a break than others

when she does err. She herself has been known not to extend the same kind understanding to others, as human as she, - especially if they are potentially in her way. She showed impatience and sternness for errors of others that were more explainable and innocent.

Here, the saving grace is that no damage was done to any relationship.

[wisteria]

207. Yes, she has been given a lot of rope on occassions, something that she has not extended to others.

I have seen her twist a gaffe into something it wasn't, use it to her advantage, and twist the knife in someones back.

[ecstatic]

158. True. I wonder how he keeps a straight face and cool demeanor

when asked the most bizarre questions (especially the death panel one). I have no problem with SOS Clinton now, but I already know such questions would be met 1st with "the laugh" and second with, well, possibly the tone we witnessed in this video.

[sunnybrook]

85. I adore Hillary

I have always been a huge fan of hers and I am a feminist. I also recently visited South Africa and learned ALOT about the rape crisis in that country, and it is absolutely horrendous, although apparently where she was in the video is much worse. I do not agree with the last poster who was addressing her in sexist terms.

However, that response was ridiculous and TOTALLY unbecoming a secretary of state. She could have said the same thing without the absolute DISGUST toward the questioner, i.e. if you want to know his opinion you will have to ask him, but since I am Secretary of State let me give you my opinion. I agree that she went WAY overboard in her response. You cannot just use the context of violence against women, which is horrible, but it does not make it ok for her to look so easily rattled. She came off as rude. REGARDLESS of the ignorance, intentional or unintentional, of the questioner, she just came across very rude.

[Cali_Democrat]

90. Lost in translation?

:shrug:

[Metric System]

93. She handled that goat question well the other day and in a culturally sensitive manner. I cringed at

that question but I thought her response was perfect. So I'm a bit surprised that she handled this question in this way and lost her cool in public. I doubt you'll be seeing this side of her again and I'm sure it is a learning lesson for her. She is human, after all. I must say that it is interesting to note how certain unambiguous Hillary detractors on DU flock to negative threads about her like flies on sh*t but are never found whenever anything positive is posted. There's no sense in naming names, but we know who they are.

[sunnybrook]

94. What is unfortunate is how this will be used

The Hillary haters at FAUX are probably having a party. The media will probably make this way bigger than it should be. She may have been tired, and no one is perfect. She is an excellent SOS, this is unfortunate.

[CakeGrrl]

97. Oh well, par for the course for a Dem. President Obama knows this well

Like him, she will likely just keep doing what she's doing without paying Fox Noise any mind.

[wisteria]

156. No, it will be dropped and forgotten because of the powerful media people who support her.

Frankly, I didn't even see where FOX even commented on this. And, I an not saying this because I support FOX News in any way, shape or form.

[liquid diamond]

98. I agree. People in this thread need to cut her some slack.

Being a diplomat doesn't mean being a fucking robot.

[cherokeeprogressive]

99. You're right. It means being fucking diplomatic. n/t

[liquid diamond]

174. Face it. That's not going to happen at all times. To expect that

is asinine and unrealistic. Carry on now.

[saltpoint]

100. I'm not seeing the point of snapping at the student's question.

Her husband did in fact go to North Korea and along with the considerable assistance of many others behind the scenes delivered two journalists back to freedom.

The point at hand, IMO, has to do with the range of esteem in which a free press is held, country to country. Sec. of State Clinton sounded huffy and petty in her response to the student.

The student's question was pretty well stated and appropriate, given that HClinton's husband had been the U.S. president for 8 years.

She made something global specifically personal. She looked bad.

[vaberella]

113. That's what I brought up in another post. If it wasn't mistranslated, the Q hahd some validity.

He saved the lives of two journalists...it doesn't make sense to me.

[saltpoint]

116. Not a Bill Clinton fan myself, I think you're exactly right about his

triumph here.

And he had very significant behind-the-scenes help, including from John Kerry.

I have no idea why Hillary Clinton needed to make her presence there about her. Her job is to shift the context of crises and conflicts into common purpose through diplomacy. Now, the videoclip is zooming through cyberspace across the globe.

She sounded petulant, selfish, and jealous.

[Metric System]

118. "She sounded petulant, selfish, and jealous." Her reaction was to the question's insinuation that

she's basically an empty vessel only capable of regurgitating her husband's opinions. And to clarify, I mean the question as translated (WHAT DOES MR. CLINTON THINK THROUGH THE MOUTH OF MRS. CLINTON?). I didn't see it as her being jealous of Bill. And yes, I do think she should have handled the question better. That being said, it was a mistake and she's human. As long as this doesn't become a habit (and I highly doubt it will), I don't see a problem. Of course, some here have an agenda and will use this occurrence to their benefit given their obvious dislike of her.

[saltpoint]

121. Your post begins with Hillary Clinton as victim.

She is the Secretary of State of the United States of America.

I'm not seeing that as a victim role.

Perhaps she's better at her job than this instance would suggest.

I hope so.

[Metric System]

123. There is no use arguing with you. Clearly your mind is made up about her and even if this incident

hadn't occurred you still would have a poor opinion of her, judging by your posts in this thread.

[saltpoint]

125. I'd be offended if you didn't think so.

I'm not a Clinton Democrat. Never was.

There's no obligation for anyone to BE a Clinton Democrat.

I praise the Clintons when praise is due. Run a DU search. You'll see.

I also blast them when they're wrong.

And they've been wrong often.

[Beacool]

136. Perhaps????

That says it all.........

:eyes:

[saltpoint]

142. Actually I've been pretty impressed with some of your posts in

this thread.

[karynnj]

148. Kerry also prevented the Republicans from destroying the possiblity of the release

In addition to whatever Kerry and the SFRC staff did via the UN office (Susan Rice's), his biggest contribution was likely his professional, reasonable success at defeating a Brownback amendment that would have recommended the SoS relist Korea as a terrorist atate. Kerry quickly, wrote a substitute amendment that asked for a report on anything Korea might have done to be delivered in 30 days and made a strong case that there was nothing in National Intelligence Estimates that justified the action of relisting them.

Kerry has defeated several of these Republican amendments, designed to get knee jerk backing, because they are against Iran, the Palestinians or NK. What they really do is complicate foreign policy for the administration. In the past, they passed easily - witness Kyl/Lieberman. What Kerry has quietly done here, often with the support of Dick Lugar is serious foreign policy diplomacy.

[saltpoint]

199. Kerry is the big mind. He's effective and far-seeing in a way

that his detractors never appreciate, may not even understand, and therefore open fire.

John Kerry is the champion of the public sector in the upper chamber.

[slackmaster]

130. A momentary display of cultural insensitivity on her part

K&U

:kick:

[Beacool]

139. Cultural insensitivity my ass!!!

She could have "calibrated" (to quote president Obama) her answer better, but it IS offensive to ask a female SOS what her husband thinks about some issue instead of asking HER opinion on it. Granted the poor guy got sucker punched by the translator and he wanted to know Obama's opinion, not Bill's.

[Jennicut]

137. I like Hillary and she had a bad moment there but I think people

are human and make mistakes. Its not an all the time thing for her, so I will let it go. She had been a very good SOS.

[Beacool]

141. Yep, we all have our moments.

Interesting how the media didn't give much of a flying fig about the important issues being dealt with on her trip, but they are sure all over this minor thing as if she had started a war in the Congo. I saw the video clip on every major network and heard it also on the radio. Of course the running commentary that went with it was mostly snide and sexist. It's also on the cover of the local NY rags (not the Times though).

:eyes:

[Jennicut]

146. When has the MSM ever concentrated on the important issues?

Its like the health care debate, most of what we see on tv is nonsense.

[Beacool]

153. Yep, they only care about conflict

and the Clintons create ratings. They could live to 150 and there would still be a fascination over their marriage.

:eyes:

[DevonRex]

145. That is exactly what I think. After seeing the vid, it's not her best moment. BUT

I think she has been doing a great job and deserves some slack.

[Beacool]

151. This is the State Department's response

At the State Department, Assistant Secretary P.J. Crowley said the question she heard "struck a nerve" — that her opinion on the matter was apparently of less interest than that of her husband, the former president.

Crowley told CNN her answer must be considered in the context of her African trip.

"The Secretary of State is going to Goma Tuesday, to draw attention to the plight of women who are victims of rape as a weapon of war" in Congo, he said. "She did react to what she heard," Crowley explained. Even if the interpreter mixed up the translation, he said, "you can't separate the question from the setting."


"If Africa, if Congo is going to advance, women have to play a more significant role," Crowley said. "She was in the setting of a town hall, and the questioner was interested in what two men thought, not the Secretary of State."

Crowley, who has just returned to Washington after traveling with Secretary Clinton during the first part of her trip to Africa, said the State Department has not yet reviewed recordings of the original question in French to learn whether the student clearly intended the question to refer to President Obama, not former President Clinton.

"She did talk with the student afterward, and they seemed to have reached an understanding," Crowley said.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/10/lost-in-translation-question-struck-a-nerve-with-clinton/

[karynnj]

238. They are dealing with a bad PR situation

The fact of the matter is that HRC could have helped convey the fact that she, though a woman, has a very important role, by answering the meat of his question as clearly and decisively as she could, then refer to that as her opinion and/or also the policy of the current President of the US, who she is representing.

[JimGinPA]

152. Good To Know You'll Be Here Whenever A Democrat Can Be Made To Look Bad

:thumbsdown:

[wisteria]

154. She made herself look bad. Her comments did not have to sound so caustic. n/t

[JimGinPA]

160. My Post Related To This OP - Not This Topic In General...

This one only posts articles critical of Democrats & progressives.

[Thrill]

155. The media is so pathetic. A man does it and he is strong. A woman does it and shes testy

You really can't make this shit up. Its a shame people don't speak out this.

[ronnykmarshall]

165. It's raw meet for the Hillary bashers on DU.

They haven't had a fix in a while.

[vaberella]

167. Actually Obama does it and he's an angry Black man. Michelle does it

she's an angry Black woman and militant. So it's not a double standard. To be honest, it's not a double standard and I thought she was a bit OTT in her reaction. I don't think it was a detrimental aspect of her but it wasn't good and added to fodder we don't need.

And lets be honest, if it was Biden who did this it would have been the same shit.

[karynnj]

168. Not true - a man who gets as angry as this gets hurt too

In the 2004 primaries, Howard Dean was hurt by getting extremely angry and telling a 70 something heckler to sit down. This was played on a hourly basis on stations like CNN for about half a day. (It was the same day Kerry was re-united with Rassman - which was such good tv that it kind of pushed the bad Dean story out.)

In the 2008 primaries, Bill Clinton's bursts of anger hurt HRC. (One was slihtly before NV, where Clinton had his finger in a reporters face.

Anger is discomforting, so unless it is in response to something unambiguously wrong done to someone else, it is usually a negative.

[Beacool]

176. Same as in the primaries.

I read the responses on other sites and there are many comments about having her period, being on the rag, having PMS, having hot flashes; all interspersed liberally with the words bi*** and cu**. Forgot to add, also many comments about not being able to please her husband and understanding why Bill cheated on her.

Reminds me of last year. Same crap, different year. BTW, the RW and LW blogs are interchangeable in this respect.

We live in a misogynist society, Hillary and the rest of us little women, best not forget it!!!!

:puke:

[vaberella]

194. Many used this as a platform for criticizing in a sexist way.

I'm not even defending that. However, if it was Biden, he would have been tarred and feathered for this and everyone knows it. The criticizim over her actions (the legitimate ones) would have happened if it was a man or a woman. If it was Obama, it would have been 100% racial but I would have also used Biden as an example. Her actions were a bit off---as for the shit of pms and rag---that's just abhorrent.

[Beacool]

196. Par for the course.

Most people on the internet are male and young........and also sexist.

x(

[Strong Atheist]

166. Recommended. nt.

[argonaut]

170. Wow, Hillary Clinton's gargantuan ego getting the better of her?

I'm not exactly shocked.

[Beacool]

177. Gargantuan ego?

As opposed to which humble politician?

:eyes:

[EmeraldCityGrl]

197. I agree with all of the above, but

I'm sure glad Hillary is on our side. She can play the diplomacy game with the best of them. The question, whether it was misinterpreted or not was insulting
and deserved a bad ass answer.

[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SKKY]

178. Hillary DID NOT need to respond to this.

[espiral]

181. Some of the responses on this thread...

...are as telling as the actual incident itself.

Ms Clinton's response was emotional, poorly-reasoned, aggressive and culturally offensive. Her body language, tone and demeanor were just as obnoxious. There are valid, non-sexist reasons why progressives do not universally love the woman. She is also part of what much of the rest of the world dislikes, to say it politely, about the US- the swaggering, confrontational attitude for which so many yanquis are known so well around the world...

[StevieM]

183. Sorry, but Hillary is incredibly popular around the world. (eom)

[Metric System]

185. Culturally offensive? Huh?!?

[espiral]

186. Yes, culturally offensive.

Not all of the world is in love with boorish, stereotypical USian behavior. Many people find it rather irritating, whether it comes from a man or woman, and regardless of a person's political affiliation.

[Metric System]

189. That's an odd definition of culturally offensive. In my view, it would have been culturally

offensive if she had responded this way to the offer of marriage to Chelsea in exchange for goats. She handled that question deftly and with cultural sensitivity, even though many of us would see it as treating women as possessions.

[karynnj]

239. That question was actually far easier for her to answer

as it was so far out of our cultural norm that good humor is easy. This question did obviously hit a nerve and when that happens is when she should raise to the occasion and show she is better than the question suggests.

[Beacool]

187. Yeah............

The woman should have just kept her mouth shut and taken it like a good little girl.

We wouldn't want to offend men who want the opinion of other men (whether it was Bill or Obama) over her opinion. Even if she flew half way around the world and took the time to hold a town hall meeting.

:eyes:

[espiral]

190. re:

"The woman should have just kept her mouth shut and taken it like a good little girl."

Nobody said anything of the sort here.

[Beacool]

191. I understand cultural differences.

After all, my father was a diplomat and I was raised in several countries. But to ask a female SOS not HER opinion, but that of a MAN (regardless of whether it was about Bill or Obama) is offensive. I do concede though that she could have answered him in a different manner, as she usually does when offensive questions are thrown at her, but this time it touched a nerve and she let the guy have it.

[wisteria]

228. Her responses are to be that of the President- she is HIS representitive.

So it would not have been wrong for the young student to ask her what President Obama's opinion was on the matter.

[wisteria]

229. She is President Obama's Representative and she is suppose to speak on his behalf -

not her own.

[me b zola]

193. I am often quite critical of Hillary, but not for this

She responded to the question as it was translated to her. Women shouldn't have to sit there with a dopey smile on their face when sexists comments come their way. I'm with Hillary on this.

[Raffi Ella]

195. I saw the video this afternoon, lol

I *loved* it. That's how I thought she'd act toward the repukes if she'd won. The woman is fierce no two ways about it.


To those that have a problem with the way the SOS reacted, I get what you're saying but Hillary is only human; the vitriol toward her over this here at DEMOCRATIC underground is disgusting. YOU'RE the ones who should be acting with a little more respect and understanding toward a woman who has worked her ENTIRE adult life for OUR cause.

[wisteria]

227. If she has worked so hard for our causes and not for herself,

than she would not have felt so compelled to remind everyone who SHE is and what HER position is.

And, how come SOS Clinton is always supposed to be given the benefit of the doubt? Other political figures are not extended this courtesy repeatedly. And on occasion, I have seen her join others who are attacking and lying about another Democrat.
I did not find the video funny or likable. I actually found it to be embarrassing.

[MasonJar]

202. Let me see if I have this right. Hilary Clinton is in a very dangerous

country, trying to help the people there, especially the women being raped, 3500 this year alone according to reports, and some of you are actually criticizing her for showing a little temper? I'll let that pass when you drag your backsides to battle-infested Congo and stand up for women and children there. Until then I'd support her efforts if I were you by not helping the rightwing and MSM overlook the important agenda of this effort on the SOS's part.

[wisteria]

204. Her comments were unprofessional and unbecoming for the chief diplomat for the US.

And certainly, what she is doing is noble, but she is doing this in the capacity of her postion as SOS. If she were a private citizen putting herself through all this, than your defense of her and her caustic comments would carry more weight.

[saltpoint]

223. If the president appoints someone on DU Sec. of State that appointee

can make travel arrangements to the Congo or elsewhere as needed.

Right now Hillary Clinton holds that position, although despite the nobility of her mission in the Congo it was her personal petulance that became the story.

I doubt her job is in jeopardy. I hope she has better moments.

[wisteria]

226. I never suggested it was in jeopardy.

I don't understand your reply to my comments.

[saltpoint]

230. wisteria, you didn't understand them because I posted them in

the wrong place.

My stupid.

Sorry about that.

[wisteria]

233. Just checking it is late. n/t

[saltpoint]

234. You are gracious as always.

:hi:

[Raffi Ella]

255. Amen!

:applause:

[Honeycombe8]

203. She was right. Hope that stopped those silly "What does Bill think?" questions.

I know it was a supposedly translation error (I don't believe that for a second).

A friend of mine the other day said that he hoped Bill would go out on the trail on behalf of Obama's healthcare plan. I said, "Whoa...wait a minute. Why would Bill Clinton, a former President who is now a private citizen, campaign for a bill that is not even written yet, or passed, or specifically proposed by a sitting President? Especially a former President who wasn't able to do that when it was his own bill. That's not his job OR his problem. Hillary is SOS. Obama is President."

[Life Long Dem]

210. If she was President?

The media would be Bill this... Bill that... Bill... Bill... Bill...

And she will get nasty even more toward the media.

And the media will want to know what Bill would do in every move she made. Not good ladies and gentlemen.

[karynnj]

240. Actually if she were President, it would rightly be Hillary, Hillary, Hillary

and we would have Bill blowing up because he would be asked what his wife thinks.

The media has always been intensely fascinated by both of them - sometimes to their advantage, sometimes to their detriment.

[ohheckyeah]

212. I love HIllary and I think she's doing an

outstanding job as SOS, but, I have to say she looked exhausted and her reaction demonstrated that. Regardless of whether or not the question was sexist, she is the SOS and I believe she should have clarified the question before she got defensive. That doesn't mean she's a bad person or a bad SOS it's just a demonstration of her humanity.

It's just completely ridiculous for any of us to expect our politicians to always be letter perfect and free of faults.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

219. I missed some of this story while I was on vacation

but why did Bill Clinton get involved with the situation involving the journalists in NK? Was it because the North Koreans specifically asked for him? I'm happy that everything turned out well but I admit that I am somewhat puzzled by his involvement in this when it's Hillary who is the official SOS. :shrug:

[Beacool]

248. Yes, "Dear Leader" asked for him.

But the deal had already been worked behind the scenes by many people, including Hillary, the State Dept. and Kerry.

:-)

[Proud Liberal Dem]

252. Thanks for the information.

It's nice to hear how everybody really pulled together and worked like a well-oiled team to get something immensely positive like this accomplished. THIS is how government is SUPPOSED to work!!!!
:-)

[Beacool]

254. Yep, a good job was done by all.

Team effort!!!

;-)

[marlakay]

220. I noticed Bill was in Vegas having a party

while she is working her ass off, just wondered if that is where her anger came from. Heaven knows who? he is partying with, they showed some of the people on tv and then made a joke about who else will be there...as in how many girls????????

I wasn't a Hillary supporter but I think she has tried hard for Obama and is probably pissed at her husband. My husband thought she was mad he got the glory from N. Korea.

[saltpoint]

221. Bill stood aside in the N. Korean diplo-swap. He let the two journalists

shine. There was no grandstanding.

Hillary accepted the job she holds.

[marlakay]

222. Personally I didn't think he looked very happy to be there

from the pics I saw. It looked to me like he was forced to go.

And yes Hillary did accept the job, I bet she will be more careful after this because part of her job is creating peace.

[saltpoint]

224. That should be a big part of what her job is, yes, and she appeared to

lose that focus in the exchange with the student.

If Bill didn't want to go to N. Korea he didn't have to say 'yes.'

[cherokeeprogressive]

225. I don't think anyone could force Bubba to do anything.

I'd have to say though that my belief is he was nothing more than window dressing, used by KJI.

IMHO, this trip would never have been allowed had it not been agreed in advance that the "journalists" would come home with him.

[Beacool]

249. I don't think that's it.

Bill's birthday is next week. Some of his friends threw him an early party in Vegas, that's all. He'll celebrate his b'day with his family next week.

What appears to have ticked off Hillary is that some guy was asking her what her husband thought of an issue, and not she, who happens to be the SOS. The student seemed to be more interested in her husband's opinion than her own. Yes, she could have responded in a different manner, but I don't blame her for getting annoyed. It was a sexist question.

:shrug:

[wisteria]

231. Secretary of State Clinton is President Obama's representative around the world and she is suppose

to promote our president's opinions- not her own. It is his opinions that matter more.

[Eric J in MN]

235. She gave an appropriate answer. She didn't scream. She didn't throw a fit. NT

NT

[karynnj]

241. It depends on your definition of a "fit"

in the context of a low key town hall, it was a "fit". If it weren't, no one would be playin the video. The first discriptive word I heard describing it was "hissyfit" that I thought was unlikely - until I saw the video. That word, though sexist, was a pretty good description - A sudden outburst of temper, often used to describe female anger at something trivial. - from the urban dictionary.

[Eric J in MN]

243. She didn't call the questioner names. She didn't scream.

She did nothing wrong.

[karynnj]

247. No one said she did either of those things - but her answer certainly

had a belligerent tone, or these threads would not be here.

As to wrong, it did not add to diplomacy. As a stand alone moment, it doesn't hurt - if it were one of many, she would hurt Obama. I doubt it will be one of many.

[wisteria]

258. This incident is so unusual for Clinton, who is a top notch politician and is very civil in public.

I have concerns about what underlying matters may have contributed to her reaction and comments.

[Gin]

244. IMO...she was already irritated by something or someone and then

she got that stupid question....she was in an area where females are worth zero....

Hillary has more intestinal fortitude than any man I know.

[karynnj]

246. I am really tired of the "intestinal fortitude" nonsense

expressed here for either men or women. The fact is that you likely could not have a political career at the highest level without it. I don't see that HRC did anything more than any other candidate. Running a nasty campaign does not take strength of character.

In terms of her Senate career, I can not think of even one unpopular effort she led. Now, the politician I most admire is Senator Kerry. I can list MANY possibly career ending things he did, because they were right. His work against the Vietnam war and support for veterans on things like Agent Orange, his fighting against illegally funding the Contras and his 5 year investigation of BCCI, when the entire leadership of both parties was against him are examples of real strength. Even in the time they were jointly in the Senate, Kerry led on trying to stop Alito, while her office said there would be no filibuster. Kerry led by fighting for Kerry/Feingold; Hillary called in cut and run in summer 2006, then by 2007 was actually using Kerry's words and logic to support a variation of it.

I do not see her as weak, far from it. She is a woman who has had the power since at least 1992 to make real changes in government policy. That strength is what makes this inexplicable to me. She should be way past letting this affect her in PUBLIC.

[wisteria]

260. I agree with everything you have said. n/t

[Beacool]

250. Yes, they would be playing the video.

They would be playing the video if the Clintons burped. They are not just politicians, they are considered celebrities and they move papers and create ratings for the networks. Any little drama will do. This nonsense issue took the entire front page of the NY Post and the NY Daily News. Do you think that nothing more important happened yesterday that should have gone on the front page? The only one that didn't bite was the NY Times. They actually reported on the purpose of her trip. Kudos to them.

:eyes:

[karynnj]

253. Had she given a polite answer to the actual question, they would not have played the tape

anymore than they played the tapes of the other days she was there. There was some coverage, but this has likely gotten 10 times as much as the rest of the trip put together. Now, if the burb were loud, they might play it - but the idea that anything the Clintons do gets coverage is less true now than a year ago.

The NY Post and DN will go with anything controversial - from anyone. They had just as much fun with Judy and Judi, when that was the story, as will Bill and Hillary. They cover Lindsey Lohan a lot. If it were just celbrity driving it, the NY Post / NY DN celebrity would have daily front page stories of her trip in Africa or elsewhere. The only ones who seems to get that kind of positive coverage for trips are the Obamas, who are not just in the WH, but are far bigger celebrities than anyone else.

[Beacool]

256. This is the NY area.

The Clintons are obviously big in NY, so they do get plenty of coverage.

[karynnj]

261. The Clintons get big coverage all over the US

I really see no difference between the coverage here - I'm NY too - and Chicago, where I have family and visit. Hillary was a NY Senator and Bill has his office in NYC, but they don't have deep roots in the NY area.

Their status was and is because he was President and because she is S0S - and because other than Gore and Kerry, she was the Democrat who came closest to being President herself.

[boris the spider]

245. Dayum...she got all up in that girl's grill!

She even snapped her head around...

"Don't make me take off my earrings, biotch!":rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Beacool]

251. Guy, it was a guy who asked the question.

And a sexist question it was at that.

:D

[Phx_Dem]

263. Getting an idiotic or even insulting question, doesn't warrant rudeness.

She's the country's top diplomat but her response was anything but diplomatic. It wasn't her words, it was her gesturing and body language that was rude and inappropriate for someone of her position.