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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:01 PM
Original message
Michelle Obama's toxic veggie nightmare: White House organic garden polluted with sludge
Edited on Fri Jul-31-09 12:01 PM by Beacool
Alex Salkever
July 30th, 2009

When First Lady Michelle Obama planted an organic vegetable garden on the White House lawn in March 2009, she hoped to both set an example of healthy eating and to grow tasty edibles for her daughters and husband. But Michelle's organic dream has been dashed by a nasty toxic legacy lurking in the soils of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. It turns out that a previous Presidential gardening team had used sewage sludge for fertilizer.

This is a fairly common practice with one huge problem. Sewage sludge tends to be laced with anything that people pour down the drain and often contains heavy metals. Not surprisingly, the National Park Service tested the dirt beneath Michelle's garden and found the plot has highly elevated levels of lead averaging 93 parts per million. That's below the 400 ppm that the Environmental Protection Agency says is a threat to human health. But I'd wager that Sasha, Malia and Barack won't be getting arugula or tomatoes from this garden any time soon.

The likely source of the toxic sludge that has ruined Michelle's garden? The Clinton White House apparently used a sludge-based product to fertilize the lawn during the 1990s! Aside from casting a shadow on the first White House vegetable garden since Eleanor Roosevelt resided there, the sludge ensures that Michelle's garden will never attain organic status. Organic certification processes strictly prohibit the use of sludge as a fertilizer substitute.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/07/30/michelle-obamas-...

I don't know anything about gardening, but couldn't they clean the soil and replant the veggies?

:(
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sweet Revenge!
:rofl:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. What you talking about, Willis?
:eyes:
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Revenge? Upon whom? For what?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. They could build a little (or good sized) greenhouse. Might not be a bad idea anyway,
with all the damn bugs up in DC. They could extend the growing season that way, too.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. A green house sounds like a great idea.
Maybe they'll do just that.

;)
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. That's a decent idea and a better plan. It would be a nice attraction to visit. n/t
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. Or plant a bucket garden like I do because our soil sucks. n/t
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
85. Raised garden beds would work, too. (nt)
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. Of course, the link says this started in the late 80s
but it's more fun to just blame the Clintons, I guess.

I wonder why they didn't test the soil first?
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I know...........
:eyes:

To be fair to past administrations, I guess that they were trying to avoid using chemicals and no one was planting edibles at the time.

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Two very good points. So, it's either Reagan or Bush-shit, then?
And why didn't they test the soil? That's usually the first thing you do.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. no wonder its so toxic.....
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. Good catch
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-05-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
87. Clinton is very tied to sludge fertilizer because the EPA vigorously
promoted it during his administration and there was much intentional publicity about it being used.

In the 93 clean water act sewage waste could no longer be dumped in water so it was burn, bury or convert to fertilizer. It was offered for free to farmlands in many places (cheaper than other disposal methods). This did clean the water but...
Municipalities have imperfect waste treatment and as it turns out there are issues with toxins in sludge fertilizer, especially heavy metals. They are also finding all the prescription drugs we put in the system, antibiotic resistant bacteria, some virus strains like hepatitis...
There were EPA whistleblower issues...some guy...well let me find that
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Toxic/062603_sludge.cfm
Critics are skeptical that the E.P.A. can objectively assess the program, given its promotion of sludge since it set new regulations in 1993 under the Clean Water Act. For example, a 1994 E.P.A. brochure says that biosolids may "protect child health." The brochure cites a study showing that animals that ingest "biosolid-treated soil and dust may have a decreased absorption of lead into the blood stream, thus lessening the potential for lead-induced nerve and brain damage." A researcher with the Sierra Club, Caroline Snyder, said, "Instead of protecting the public, they are right there in there with industry promoting the practice." One of the agency's most senior scientists left as a result of a dispute over sludge research. In May, the agency terminated the scientist, David Lewis, a 32-year veteran who had published an article in the journal Nature raising questions about the agency's sludge research. "To me, of all the environmental issues, this is Mount Everest," said Dr. Lewis, who won the agency's top science award in 2000.

The Labor Department ruled in 1996 and 1998 that the E.P.A. had retaliated against him for whistle-blowing.


(The guy was fired in 2003, not under Clinton)

Erin Brockovich is on the toxic sludge issue these days. There is a lot with sick or dying cows and when they look at the sludge, the fields and then the milk they found things like 120 times allowable level for thallium, high arsenic levels and PCBs over 2,000 times the EPA standard.

Anyway those who know about sludge do think Clinton administration, including those who favored it's use. That might be why they mention Clinton in article.

But it would have been good if Obama's had tested soil first, especially if they wanted it "labeled" organic. Still this part can serve as a lesson both about soil testing and sludge fertilizer.
I hope part of what they do next is hydroponic since encouraging that could really increase production in urban areas. That can be organic too and done outdoors or indoors.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Time out! About those "highly elevated levels of lead".
Edited on Fri Jul-31-09 12:10 PM by Buzz Clik
A concentration of 93 ppm is average or below for normal concentrations of lead found in soils.

As far a cleaning the soil goes -- it would be a simple task to excavate the soil and replace it with soil that had not been amended with sewage sludge-based fertilizer.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. OK, so it's not a major issue to correct?
Are those veggies safe to eat?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Two issues -- safety and organic production.
Edited on Fri Jul-31-09 12:25 PM by Buzz Clik
On the safety side -- yes, the veggies will be perfectly safe to eat.

However, many would not consider the garden to be truly organic if it has been consistently fertilized with sewage sludge.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. OK, thanks for the clarification.
:hi:
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. One more item: I'd venture to guess that many DUers consider the application of sewage sludge...
... to a garden soil to be an abomination. They don't trust it and consider it lethal regardless of how much or how little is applied. I consider that to be an emotional reaction without scientific basis.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. In Japan they had some dyn-o-mite looking veggies....
And they used to fertilize with "night soil" too!!!
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. Probably more than just Japan?
and of course, we do use other animal 'sludge,' don't we, as fertilizer? Or why did my Dad 'import' such stuff from uncles farm for our garden????
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Oh, horse poop!!!!!!
Hee hee....!

The Japanese had an organized system for it, a little wagon that went round the countryside, collecting those human poops in a rather concise and precise fashion! I'm sure other countries did it/do it even today!!
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. And cattle poop!
;-)
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. Hee hee!!!! nt
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
82. Ouuuuu, that sounds
disgusting. And I heard Michelle fed it to her family and visiting dignataries............I wonder if anyone got sick??
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
49. sounds expensive...
They have grocery stores and farmers' markets in DC, no?

Why not stimulate the economy that way, rather then spend many thousands to replace the soil, all so they can spend time and even more money to grow $100 worth of vegetables each year?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #49
71. The reality is that the soil most likely doesn't need to be touched.
I was merely answering her question.

And, I don't understand your question about "stimulating the economy." Home, organic gardening is not a choice based on economics.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. well, the spin on this thing from the start has been as a "victory garden" of sorts
Personally, turning the White House lawn into a truck garden strikes me as tacky. But the spin has been she's setting some sort of example in these tough times, that we should all start a veggie garden since that may be all we have to eat once the economy collapses completely. What's next? Livestock?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. You've got a helluva point. That 1100 sq ft plot (1/40th of an acre) is HUGH!
Friggin' enormous. I'm sure that White House caretaker is thrilled that all the grass is gone -- no more mowing.

Do you figure that the Obamas could possibly eat all that bounty themselves? Maybe they could get UNICEF to use the cargo hold of one of their ships, and they could send the load to Africa to feed the continent.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe she could go to raised bed gardens and truck in some
uncontaminated dirt. There's a fertilizer made of Milwaukee sewage (Milorganite) that is often used by public gardens because it supposedly keeps deer away from the plants. I can't imagine a deer problem around the White House, but maybe that's what their gardeners use.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I don't know.
I'm a city girl, I didn't even know that you could use sewage sludge to fertilize soil.

Though it does sound gross....

x(
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. We used Milorganite on our gardens
when we had our farm. We stopped because of the heavy metals but that was 30+ years ago too. Is it still produced?
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
45. I saw it this spring when I went to buy my seeds.
The deer love my hostas and daylilies, but I didn't want the Milorganite anywhere near our water supply so I wouldn't buy it.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Do people have to put a negative spin on every fucking thing the Obamas do?
Edited on Fri Jul-31-09 12:18 PM by Mrs. Overall
Is this garden story just speculation or has the soil been tested? Did Michelle have a hefty layer of compost put on top that would somewhat negate the elements in the topsoil below?

I can't stand these stories that nitpick, when HUGE things going on in the world are ignored.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I think that most people think that the veggie garden is a great idea.
The concern would be if the soil is contaminated, but several people here gave solutions to the problem if it is. I don't know if they tested the soil recently.

;-)
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. Don't get your hopes up...they may salvage it!
:rofl:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Shoo, disagreeable person.
Don't cause strife.....

:eyes:


:P
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Who, ME?
Let's see, two shiny-happy-wonderful-Clinton posts, one trouble-for-the-Obamas post.

Check! The pattern is in full working order.

:hi:
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
77. some never know when to say uncle
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 03:20 PM by Aramchek
they just continue to pursue a dream that will never come to fruition
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
83. Don't
you have something better to do, like a life maybe.................
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. Probably Ronnie McReagan.
"Oh, a bag of toxic shit? Well, now, would you pour that on that garden there?"
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. Try square foot gardening, that does not use existing soil.
The book is a must have for organic gardening.



White House organic garden polluted with sludge, July 30, 2009

.....

The likely source of the toxic sludge that has ruined Michelle's garden? The Clinton White House apparently used a sludge-based product to fertilize the lawn during the 1990s! Aside from casting a shadow on the first White House vegetable garden since Eleanor Roosevelt resided there, the sludge ensures that Michelle's garden will never attain organic status. Organic certification processes strictly prohibit the use of sludge as a fertilizer substitute.

.....




Revenge of Big Agriculture strikes again.


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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Thanks for the info.
:hi:
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. IIRC, soil with a high organic matter/compost component does a very good job
of sequestering heavy metals and toxins, and they do not wind up in the crops.

And no, I DON'T HAVE A F---ING LINK. I have a recollection.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. OK............
No need to get testy.

:7
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. Sorry. I just get so tired of demands for links on every single thing I say,
even when it's a vague recollection or OPINION, lol.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. Clean the soil? Fungi to the rescue
Here's how to do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI5frPV58tY
Maybe having this experience, Michelle will become a vigorous spokesperson for bioremediation technologies.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Thanks for the link.
I'll watch the video later (I'm at work).

:-)
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. Sewage sludge....ewwwwww
We're still uncovering Bush's screw ups.

LOL
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. Geez, not this story again. It was debunked the first time it surfaced about a month ago.
:eyes:

"It would be nearly impossible to find a garden anywhere with less than 93 ppm," Dr. Filippelli said, and added that it's absurd to claim contamination based on this test result."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eddie-gehman-kohan/the-on...

AND

"WASHINGTON (AP) The White House says its high-profile garden on the South Lawn has tested positive for lead although it is not at dangerous levels.

White House spokeswoman Katie McCormick-Lelyveld said Thursday that tests on the soil in the White House garden detected lead levels of 93 parts per million. Soil is considered unsafe for growing vegetables when it reaches more than 500 parts per million."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gCGtN...

AND

"UPDATE: The blog Obama Foodorama interviewed lead experts who pointed out that 93 ppm is not an unusual level of lead in urban soils. That level is still well above natural levels and the EPA's own 56 ppm "ecological soil screening level"---hence my reasonable assertion that the garden is "contaminated with lead"--but the contamination could also be the product of old exhaust from lead-based fuel. Of course, it won't be possible to know the background lead level on the South Lawn unless someone sampled it before sludge was applied (a White House spokesman did not return a phone call). Given that lead levels in sludge can legally be way higher than what was found on the Obama garden, I still believe sludge could be a factor in the 93 ppm, but how much of a factor will be hard to say."

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2009/06/did-slud...
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tosh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. +1 for #32. nt.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. You have to wonder who's working overtime to keep it out there, and why?
It's the drip, drip, drip of incessant carping and nitpicking. It doesn't work to depress my support of the President though--in fact it has the opposite effect.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. +1
If it has any sort of negative spin against the Obama's, it will get posted.

:eyes:
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. Thank you.
The unscientific noise on this board really gets to me at times.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #32
70. You make sense. There's no way they'd grow 93 ppm arugula and then not eat it because ....
the EPT says 500 ppm is dangerous. Pulling 93 ppm ARUGULA from Sasha and Malia would be DOUBLE latte-liberalistic annoyingness --- a perfect storm of foodie-ism and helicopter parenting.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
33. By late July, I think The veggies would have already "processed" a lot of the sludge
This is really too bad because it is a nice example, but maybe this too can be a learning moment. I assume that if any of us in suburbia wanted to follow the example, we should test of build raised beds.

Hard to believe that sludge was ever used on teh White House grounds. ( Want to bet the right has a field day using the fact that the Clintons did it?)
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
36. Cheney used the garden for target practice.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Could be from Shrub's tobacco chewing...
Edited on Fri Jul-31-09 02:01 PM by KansDem
I remember seeing Georgie at the Harvard Business School, said Torbert Macdonald, an old classmate from Andover, but he looked so lost and forlorn I didnt have the heart to say hello.

Others were less sympathetic. I can still see him in his cowboy boots and leather flight jacket walking into macroeconomics, recalled a classmate. He sat in the back of the class, chewing tobacco and spitting it into a dirty paper cup . . . He was one red-assed Texan who made sure he was in your Yankee face and up your New England nose.

Most of his contemporaries at the business school headed for Wall Street after graduation but W moved back to Midland, his boyhood home town in Texas, trying to become an oilman. He lived above a garage in an apartment that was piled high with dirty clothes that his friends wives periodically washed. Most of his nights were spent in bars, drinking with buddies in the oil business.


Cocaine

on edit: I believe I once read that W used to chew tobacco during his campaign for governor and would spit in the wastebaskets of campaign offices when he visited...
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
40. Why would anybody unrec. this?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Because toxic sludge is a bad thing?
I didn't unrec, but I'm sure many folks here are offended by the toxic sludge.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Because this faux issue was widely and soundly debunked when it first came up weeks ago.
See my post above.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
65. Because it's recycled debunked bullshit.
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. There ya go!
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. Poetic
American Sludge: Feeding Our Children the 21st Century way!

Agra Biz hated that garden. Too bad it was not made with more forethought.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
50. So, Bush literally turned the White House into a toxic waste dump.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
80. It was under Clinton that sewer sludge was promoted, including by putting it...
...at the site of the White House garden.

Today, half of what we flush is used as fertilizer.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
53. Its GARDEN-GATE!!
It was ROVE!! I KNOW IT!!

I am sure there is an all natural way to repel them from the garden. They are attracted to beer so she use that shitty beer Obama was drinking to drown them.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. OMG. Poison is everywhere, nowadays. This is the fault of whoever planned and supervised
Edited on Fri Jul-31-09 06:36 PM by Honeycombe8
the planting of the garden, I would think. That person should've known to test the soil, properly prepare the grounds, etc.

As far as cleaning, I'm a paralegal and have worked on some environmental cases. From what I've read (and just a cursory reading of some documents), "cleaning" toxicity from soil legally means cleaning it to the point where it is acceptable for the purpose of where it's situated. Some toxic substances (many, actually) can not be totally cleaned from soil. Once put there, some part of it ALWAYS remains.

Sometimes, the site can be cleaned to the point where kids can play on it, but it can't be used for growing food. And sometimes, it can be cleaned enough to where a commercial establishment can be placed there, but not a home where people will live on it.

I would think sewage can be cleaned out of it, though, since after all, we have complex systems we use to clean sewage so that it comes out of our tap and is drinkable. (Altho some part of that sewage still remains in the drinking water, you know. It's just declared drinkable because the amount is low enough. Pretty creepy, huh?)
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
56. "The Clinton White House apparently used a sludge-based product to fertilize the lawn during the
1990s!"

Why didn't Hillary say anything to Michelle?

x(
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. LOL
:thumbsup:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Thanks...
Sometimes people REALLY stretch to find something else to start a negative Obama thread about. :D
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. And it's a BS story on top of it.
Just let's you know how well the President is doing! When people have to find crap like this to post, they are truly reaching!
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Yeah...
I read about it above. It's unbelievable how some posters here do NOTHING but post negative BS about our president they're SUPPOSED to support on this site.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #56
78. That's hilarious.
Not as hilarious as the constant posting of old BS. It's the cheap thrill of seeing a negative headline get kicked. Wheee!

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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #56
84. HRC has
Edited on Tue Aug-04-09 09:25 PM by laugle
more important things to do. Michelle has a staff of 22 people working under her, though I can't imagine what they have to do. I guess none of them was assigned to garden duty.................
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
58. It's amazing that you manage to find so many positive stories about Hillary....
...and so many negative ones against the Obamas.

Coincidence, I'm sure.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Hey, I like Hillary---and I like Obama, too!
They're on the same team now.

It's past time to "get over it," no matter what. It was a tough election, but they're a united front.

I don't think there's any percentage in putting down Obama--it doesn't boost anyone else in his administration up to put him down.

Since the story has already been debunked, and the ground isn't toxic, and it was "sludged" under the GOP....it's all kinda silly, at the end of the day. Pity your little dragon couldn't just light this entire discussion up, burn it to a cinder, and have done with it...
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
64. 93ppm
Safe level is <400ppm. What's the big deal?
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
66. Oh for heaven's sake, this trope has been dragged out *again*???
BIG AG=SAFE, Home Grown=SCARY

No soil is lead-free, and 93 ppm is FINE!
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
68. First oppty to unrecommend! Woohooooo!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
69. What in the FUCK are you all trying to hide by unrecommending this thread?
:wtf:
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. Did you read any of the replies above? This story is A) old and B) debunked.
Hence the unrecs. Old, innacurate news deserves to be unrec'ed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. And C) too perfect a political metaphor.
Can't wait to hear about the Bush-era bodies they'll find.
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hileeopnyn8d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. Just an FYI
I saw this story on Yahoo's homepage yesterday too. I don't know why they're re-running debunked news.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
75. deleted
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 12:02 PM by lunatica
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
81. Mission accomplished by the RW trolls. My stepdaughter, an avid gardner, informed me that
this has hit a number of gardening websites that she frequents. Apparently, the mission is to spread this information about the toxicity of the produce being served to diplomats and White House denizens. We need to get the truth from the White House. Has the soil been tested? Is the produce toxic? If true what do they intend to do to rectify the problem, raised beds? containers? Has Michelle in fact abandoned the garden? Although debunking all this helps, it seems the intent is to make it into another myth that goes viral and that no one corrects.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. see post #32
It's been debunked...trolls are spreading it for sure...anything to try and slam the Obama's. Ignorant as hell.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-05-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
88. Oh wow. This lie is still making the rounds?
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