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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:29 PM
Original message
Words you'll never hear in the Canadian health care system
As a Canadian I marvel at all of these terms that are so common to Americans, but are virtually unknown to us.

Here's a partial list off the top of my head:

1. "Out of network"
There are no "networks" in Canada. Doctors and hospitals are not affiliated with private insurance companies. Doctors are private business entities and hospitals are usually run by non-profit boards or regional health associations.

2. "COBRA"
Health coverage is NOT tied to your place of employment in any way. So any COBRA-like scheme is unnecessary.

3. "Co-Pay"
The government pays 100% of basic care, 100% of the time. Drugs are not covered, but are subsidized by government to a point. And because of mass buys, discounts are obtained from the drug companies. That's why our prices are so much lower. Most employers offer a drug plan that pays for 100% of drug cost coverage.

4. "monthly premium\deductible"
Wazzat? We don't consider our health to be the same as our possessions.

5. "waiting for approval"
Doctors are the sole decision makers for health care. NOBODY influences or delays their decisions, warns them of costs or prevents them from giving treatment for any reason.

6. "Government interference"
The provincial government in each province PAYS for whatever services doctors provide. No questions asked. Unless the procedure is experimental, not medically necessary or unwarranted, doctors cannot deny basic care - by law.

7. "Health insurance lobby"
There are NO insurance companies for basic care, only companies for providing insurance for travelers. No money to be made here.

8. "bureaucracy"
When we visit a hospital or doctor's office, we walk in, get treated, walk out. No "applications", "registrations" or any other kind of paperwork is required. We NEVER have to talk to a single "government official" or wait for a "judgment".

9. "PRE-EXISTING CONDITION"
This is such a foreign concept to us. A Canadian's usual reaction to the explanation of this term is astonishment.


I'm glad to see that a sane health care system is within reach in America. Fight for it. It's WORTH it.

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Betsy Ross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nice encapsulation of the issues.
K&R
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Thanks n/t
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
156. This is a great email. I just sent it to my whole list. I hope others do the same.
I've gotten so many lies from conservatives through email. It's time we fight back with the truth.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R. nt
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for posting this
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 02:35 PM by livetohike
:hi: I have cousins in Sask and Alberta and BC - I have been treated in a Canadian hospital ER and the difference in systems is outstanding.

Your points need to get out to every American citizen. May I e-mail them?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Be my guest
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 02:39 PM by Canuckistanian
It's not an exhaustive list, just what I was thinking of this afternoon.
:hi:
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Well it hits upon the major problems with our insurance companies
and I appreciate that you took the time to point that out :-).
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offog Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
191. Hi, lovetohike!
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 06:01 PM by offog
Greetings from another concerned Canadian! I live in Saskatchewan, the birthplace of Canadian Medicare. I hope the people who read this thread spread the word to everyone they know. It makes me mad when I see the misinformation the Repugs are spreading.

Canuckistanian says all the things I want to say to Americans in a much more concise form than I could come up with. Yeah, everybody - go viral with this!
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mgcgulfcoast Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. i agree
we must fight for this
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fadedrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. K & R
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. And there is not one goddamn good reason why we should not have this in the US
Plenty of lame excuses, yes. But not one valid reason.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
135. Oh, wait....
you're looking for VALID reasons......How unreasonable! Are you truing to say that good old fashioned greediness is not enough? :silly:
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. K & R
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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you for this list.
And a born and bred American, I love to see the utter astonishment when foriegners to America learn that only healthy people can obtain health care and we're bound to our employers for health care. It literally makes their brains hurt when trying to understand how anyone in their right minds can defend our health care system. Then I tell them that mental health services are also limited, and that explains how people not in their right minds are running around free, defending our current health care mess.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You're welcome
I only hope that people see some sense in what I say.
:hi:
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Puzzler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. Exactly... and it's the doctors that make 100% of the medical decisions.
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 03:15 PM by Puzzler
Anyone that tells you otherwise is either grossly misinformed or lying.


I've lost count of how many times I've posted this and similar information. The GOP lie-machine is working full time right now, planting the seeds of doubt everywhere.

Remember, almost of all of the GOP propaganda on the health debate is wrong!!!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. It's frustrating, isn't it?
Even Senators are telling bald-faced LIES about our system and nobody calls them on it.

And the media is worse. Glenn Beck with his "doctor lottery" and "old people denied care" lies are maddening.

Even people here on DU don't realize the myths told about our system are just that - myths, fairy-tales, total fabrications.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
46. Glenn Beck
is a pathological liar. It's in his DNA. When Republicans tell the truth their tongues catch fire.
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irislake Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. The lies that your politicians and pundits are telling you
make me FURIOUS!. I wish I could laugh they are so outrageous. What a corrupt bunch of bastards. Please don't let them get away with it.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #55
196. They're not MY polticians, irislake
I just down the road from you, in Lanark County.
:hi:
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ImOnlySleeping Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
117. Those ads
That are on constantly drive me crazy. Especially the new one with 'government says they're not worth it' or whatever. Ya, that's likely. As if anyone that requires re-election would allow craziness like that to carry on.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
118. My Canadian friends wouldn't trade their health care for ours!
NONE of them would trade their health care away for the mess that passes for the American system.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. Our brave Democratic Congress ....
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 02:58 PM by bvar22
...is working very hard to ensure that those words are permanently enshrined in our Health Care system. HR 3200, currently in the House "Firewalls" and Protects the Health Insurance Industry.
The CBO states that under the guidelines of HR 3200, only 10 Million Americans will be in the proposed Public Option by 2019.
The rest of the currently uninsured (30 Million) WILL be MANDATED into For Profit Health Insurance. The majority of Working Americans current in Employer based Plans (150 Million +) will NOT be allowed to "choose" the Public Option, even if it is much cheaper!

While Health Insurance will be mandated, Providers will be free to turn down Public Plan participants. It is "assumed" that current Medicare Providers will accept The Public Plan, but they will be free top opt out if they wish.
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Our system offers coverage - cradle to grave
Regardless of your income, regardless of your "position" in life, universal healthcare in Canada offers healthcare - cradle to grave.
Does not matter where you work, when you work, how many jobs you switch to, how many times you move - as a Canadian citizen, you have the RIGHT to accessable healthcare - yes, it is a RIGHT.

Yes - we pay taxes to offset costs of healthcare - and to taxpayers, government offers universal healthcare as a vital institution of wellbeing for its citizens. Healthy citizens make better workers, which, in turn, provide more revenues to government. This is an investment in its citizens, its tax base, so to speak.

America too - should INVEST in the well being and health of it citizens, of its taxpayers, of its workers. I have heard those in power state that the American worker is one of the best, most innovative and hard working in the world. Why then, with such pride, and faith in a group, can one declare the American citizen does not DESERVE universal healthcare as a fundamental right? How can one state on one hand that this is such a illustrious group, and then not have FAITH in that group enough to offer universal healthcare?

You do deserve it. Fight for it. We, up here in Canada admire your efforts, and we are with you in spirit.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. As a fellow Canadian i THANK YOU for posting this!
It needed to be made clear! Well said.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Thanks!
Sometimes, I just get tired of the untruths told about our system!
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. "Patient Portion"
Really sticks in my craw. The reason any health care system that still has the insurance companies embedded up to their necks will fail the very people who need it is because the damned "Patient Portion" is a huge fucking X in the equation. And X can mean any amount they want it to. :grr: And what happens if you've already gone bankrupt from medical bills, have more medical bills accumulated? Are these current medical bills going to be counted when it is determined whether you can afford medical insurance or not?

Sorry for the rant. Just kinda down about the whole thing. :(
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent summary but I need to nitpick one thing...
In your #4, you state:

"4. "monthly premium\deductible"
Wazzat? We don't consider our health to be the same as our possessions."

I did pay a monthly premium, while I lived in British Columbia, of $56.00 a month and when I first moved to Alberta my premium was $49.00 a month but the Alberta government did away with premiums as of January of this year.

I guess one could classify this, at most, a half nitpick as your other point re deductibles is right on point.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Yes, I realized that after I wrote it
A few provinces have monthly fees - I forgot about them. Even here in Ontario a long time ago, I remember we had to pay about $50/month and I think it wasn't charged if you weren't working.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I wanted to add it mainly because I didn't want your great summary...
to be sidelined by those who will use a minute point like that to try and sideswipe the great points you were making. I have bookmarked your thread as it will become useful to me I am sure!

One point I would add about the premium I paid, at $56.00 a month, it was the TOP rate, the MOST one person would pay a month and depending on one's financial circumstances it went down to nothing. Given all I have learned about the US system and what American citizens pay each month (more than I paid per year!)providing they could get insurance at all, I realize how fortunate I was even in having to pay the $56.00 a month.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. I just sent your comments around here & there, eh?
One of these days I may have to throw myself on the mercy of my relatives in Saskatchestan and ask them to take me in.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. You ought to submit this as an Op Ed to some American newspapers
Seriously.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. +1
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
63. I agree - please do...n/t
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
72. Yes, that's a wonderful idea! -nt
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Not all drug plans are 100%
Mine is 80/20 and insists on generic if available. That means for most medications, I'm a few dollars out of pocket.

A lesser-known fact is that Treaty Indians get 100% coverage including dental.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I've always had a 100% plan
But I guess you're right, not all plans will cover 100%. Still, it's tax-deductible...
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Why no drug plan?
And what happens if you don't have an employer who provides one? Medications would probably be my one of my biggest costs if I had no insurance, so I'm just curious why there is no drug plan, and what type of prices you pay in Ontario (I live around 20 minutes away from Ft. Erie, but a world apart in health care!). I know a couple of my medications run over $100 a month, so I'm wondering if you could explain a little more about the drug plans?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. There's been talk of having a drug plan
But nothing yet.

And what happens if we have no plan? Tell you the truth, i don't know exactly. I know it can be subsidized somehow, but I don't know how it works. Drugs ARE free while you're in the hospital, though.

And remember, our drugs are partially subsidized, the provinces all negotiate for mass buyouts (which Bush banned), so that our drugs are far cheaper than yours, despite having come from the very same drug company.
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irislake Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
57. Seniors get "free" drugs don't forget.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
149. I've talked to so many Canadian's who love their health care
Sure there's griping here and there, but overall when they compare theirs to mine, I think they're quite happy with what they have!

I was just wondering about the drug plan because between my husband and I, we would spend a lot - I know you can match up prices on here, so when I have time, I'm going to take a look. Of course bush banned it, it would have taken money out of the pockets of the big drug companies! I'm one of the lucky ones who have almost always had insurance - the few times I didn't, many years ago, I qualified for medicaid or medicare (not the one for older people, but the one for poor people). Thanks for answering my questions - I was really just curious, as I'd always assumed your health care plan covered medications, too.
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Puzzler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #149
154. Just remember that any griping from Canadians...
... about their health care system is fixable by adjusting funding priorities (by the various provinces).

Conservatives are fond of nit-picking, and then think that their nit-picks are reasons to scrap an entire system. Not at all. Even if some of the minor gripes are true, as I said above, the minor gripes can be fixed within the system.

(It's kind of like saying that there are some problems with the US voting system (which there are), therefore the whole democratic system needs to be scrapped... rather than simply fixing the problems with voting.)
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #154
163. ...is from Conservatives lying through their teeth
...terrified that the Liberals might get back in.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
82. And their health care system is very good. Most of my family go to
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 10:31 PM by jwirr
Indian Health facilities for care. I am white so I do not qualify but from what I can see the service is very equal. Edited to say that I was referring to US natives and our Indian Health Program - it is single payer!
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Shireling Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. I don't understand why we can't have this!!
I love Canada!!
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
114. because everyone is jealous of OUR system and wishes they had OUR healthcare.
uggh. there is national pride, and then there is just stupid. just because we say we are the best doesn't mean we are.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
202. You are fooling nobody.
Enjoy your stay.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. Once again you make me wish my husband of 35+ years and I
had established our life in Canada way back in 1973. He was a Canadian, I was an American and we didn't think twice about staying in the United States. Those were the days when health insurance was so cheap you didn't even think about it and it was 100% coverage. If I knew then what I know now . . .
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. Thank you, Canuckistan! Excellent post. Because I am constantly hearing this from the
right-wingers, I have to ask you this question: Do you know any Canadians who go to, or have gone to the U.S. for medical treatment?

And, if so, what would be their reason(s)?

Thank you for humoring me. I don't know any Canadians so I figured you could help with this.

Recommend.
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Sodan Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. The massive wait times??
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You've posted a link to a set of links, but nothing to subtantiate "massive".
Here's what I consider a "massive" wait time: Forever. That's how long the uninsured will wait for treatment.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. That's not true, JBoy. If they aren't terminally stupid and live here in North Carolina they
can go to one of our state-run hospitals/medical centers and get excellent care. And the state pays for it.

Unfortunately a lot of the uninsured wait until they are in dire condition before they go anywhere, so the bills for helping them are astronomical.

We already have state-funded medical care for the poor but it's a poor substitute for a good universal health care plan like we need.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. Thanks, bertman
I can say I've never known anyone who's gone to the US for treatment. There really is no need.

I have heard of people going for experimental treatments that are not approved on the "medical schedule" of accepted treatments. And yes, there are some who go to US private clinics for CAT or MRI scans, but for standard treatments that are available at any hospital, no.

And there are some that "self-diagnose" themselves as being worse off than their doctor says they are. So they go outside the system. But those are VERY rare instances.

There are some cases where local hospitals are overloaded and patients are sent south for treatment. For example, Alberta, whose system is strained right now because of a massive influx of workers coming in for the oil sands project, there have been cases of people sent to the US for emergency treatment. But even then, all costs are covered by the province.

But well over 85% of Canadians are satisfied with their health care system as it is. Why go outside the system and incur those costs?
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
87. I really appreciate your help on this Canuckistanian. It's good to hear this from one
who has personal experience with the system. I'm glad that you and your fellow Canadians are happy with your health care. Maybe one day 85% of Americans will be able to say the same thing.

:hi:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
58. I 'm not Canuckistan but am Canadian and...
I can honestly say I know of no one who has gone to the US for medical treatment voluntarily, preferring to pay out of pocket rather than use our system of care nor do I know personally of any one who has been sent to the US for treatment. I do know our government will send patients to the US for care and cover the cost if the following criteria is met:

services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care.

Here is some info on how few Canadians actually access the US system:


"Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians' Use Of Health Care Services In The United States", by Steven J. Katz, Karen Cardiff, Marina Pascali, Morris L. Barer and Robert G. Evans, in Health Affairs, May/June 2002.

To examine the extent to which Canadian residents seek medical care across the border, we collected data about Canadians' use of services from ambulatory care facilities and hospitals located in Michigan, New York State, and Washington State during 19941998. We also collected information from several Canadian sources, including the 1996 National Population Health Survey, the provincial Ministries of Health, and the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association. Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectible relative to the use of care by Canadians at home.

I have been unable to, as yet, access the full article "Phantoms In The Snow" except for the above abstract and this info with some more detail on thier findings:

They surveyed medical institutions in Buffalo, Seattle, and Detroit, across the border from large Canadian population centers, for procedures which were reported to be in short supply or waitlisted in Canada like CAT scans, cataract surgery, MRIs, etc., and found a few hundred Canadians max per year, as opposed to tens or hundreds of thousands of Canadians having the same procedure in each Canadian province.

They checked with mental health organizations (clinics for depression, rehab, drug abuse, etc.) and found all but one having seen fewer than ten Canadians, and one fewer than 25. In New York State, out of over 100,000 patients treated for alcoholism and drug abuse, only 246 were from outside the US at all.

Over five years of hospital admissions, Canadians admitted to US hospitals in the three cities represented 0.23% of the total Canadians admitted to hospitals across the border from the three US cities. And, 80% of those 0.23% were emergencies and childbirths.

They surveyed 11 of "America's Best Hospitals", (according to US News and World Reports), and found that 6 had seen fewer than 15 Canadians and 4 had seen 20-60 Canadians. The last had seen 600 Canadians, 90% of whom were outpatients being sent there by their provincial plan for proton beam therapy for cancer. When asked directly, which would presumably give Canadians forced to leave the country for medical care a chance to complain, "Only 90 of 18,000 respondents to the 1996 Canadian NPHS National Population Health Survey] indicated that they had received health care in the United States during the previous twelve months, and only twenty indicated that they had gone to the United States expressly for the purpose of getting that care."

I hope that helps answer your question.



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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #58
90. Yes, that does help. A lot. Thank you, Spazito, for that information. We American progressives
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 10:42 PM by bertman
appreciate all the help you folks in Canada can offer us in this struggle to free our healthcare system from the deathgrip of corporate America.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. You're very welcome! I would love nothing more than to see....
every American able to receive care with the same ease and affordability as we in Canada can. Anything we can do to help dispel the lies and distortions of those who want to kill reform by providing the facts we certainly will do!
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. Probably "maximum benefit" too
I've got great health insurance but it maxes out at 2 Million - some really awful disease could goggle that up in a year and then it is on to bankruptcy.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. The USA healthcare - of the insurance companies, by the insurance companies, for the insur.........
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livingonearth Donating Member (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I can never understand why right wingers
are always worried about the government making their health care decisions when they are perfectly willing to let insurance companies do it.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. well yes, the point should be made by Dems every day
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howmad1 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
100. Not as long as those dems.......
.....are on the receiving end of the largess of HMO's big Pharma, etc. One Max Baucus comes to mind along with other "Blue Dog' dinos who are against any form of health care. Unfortunately, not in our lifetime will we see anything resembling Canadian healthcare in this country; and that's the truth.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. And they have no problem with the government getting between a woman and her doctor
At the most basic level of her control of her own body - reproductive choices.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
36. This needs to be seen by everyone in the US.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
38. MASSIVE kick & rec
I wish every American would read this.

:kick:
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Bennyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
39. We need more of this type of thing....
We need to shout down the right wing echo chamber and the only way we can do that is to have things like this to show them how wrong they are.

Thanks for the post< i will be using it in about ten places in the next five minutes.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. Please DO send this to a major American newspaper
or even a minor one, like the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, where the online comments are dominated by wing=nuts.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #41
141. Sending to St. Louis PD now! Got to turn that state blue.
:hi:
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
43. great post - somebody linked to your post on Kos, too
Maybe you should make a diary there, too?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Really?
Not bad for something that only took 15 minutes to write. But I've been thinking about writing this for a while.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Yes, here is the diary
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 07:54 PM by NewJeffCT
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
44. I love that we (DU) have you Canucks on our side!
:thumbsup:
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. I heart Canada
Used to go up to Manitoulan Island every summer as a kids, lots of family there. My family came to America (Michigan) from Ireland via Canada, many stopped there. Those who went on to Michigan returned to visit those who'd stayed in Canada every summer. Always loved the place.

Great presentation of the perspective of Canadians regarding the lexicon of our health care system. It really is astounding. Your post should be printed on every editorial page in this country.



Cheers :toast:

Julie
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Thanks!
Oh, I love Manitoulin Island, my idea of heaven. Met lots of nice Americans there, too. Maybe you were one of them!
:hi:

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heliarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
51. Rub it in why don't you? nt
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tnlurker Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
54. Great List
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
56. One of my coworkers recently had to make a trip home to the U.K as his mother was quite ill and not
expected to pull through. Fortunately, she is making such a remarkable recovery that he felt he could return to the states and is back at work this week.

While he admits that the NHS, like any health program, has some problems, he cannot say enough about the wonderful care his mom has received. He said that perhaps he's been in the states too long because he wasn't aware of how different health care is there. A few things he mentioned:

1. Money was never mentioned.
2. The doctor decides how long the patient stays in the hospital, not some chart invented by a bean counter that says for condition Y you get X days
3. Nursing homes are not used for interim care. Every effort is made to get the patient home with what ever health care services are needed.
4. As his mother is older and was waking up a bit confused if she woke up in the middle of the night, an aide was assigned who saw only to her needs over night.

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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
59. K/R
How can northern America be so smart and southern America be so myopic, manipulable, and just plain stupid?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
60. Dirty words that we should never hear -- !!!
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 08:38 PM by defendandprotect
May I ask you for some details of what the Canadian health care covers . . .

You see there is a building right-wing argument vs women's care ---

specifically abortion.

How do they handle it in Canada?

:)



PS: And any other tough issues that got argued out in Canada?

You're a sane people and we could certainly use some advice down here as we

pretend we're reinventing the wheel!



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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Abortion is a medical procedure and, as such, is fully covered...
cosmetic surgery is not.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Just for curiosity's sake
do you know if reconstruction after mastectomy is covered? Here it's one of the "mandates" that the insurance companies like to whine about (yet they don't whine about us being mandated to buy their lousy product).

Strangely, most of those mandates are for conditions unique to or more common in women or children.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Yes, it is deemed a medical necessity...
even some breast reductions are covered provided there is a health issue related to it.

Breast enhancement, on the other hand, is not covered.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. Reductions are covered here
though the patient and her doctor often has to jump through lots of hoops to prove it is medically necessary.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #77
92. I have been astounded by the number of hoops both the patient and the doctor....
have to go through to get coverage for what would be considered pretty basic here and would simply be covered without question.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
74. Thank you -- !!!
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #60
106. For comparison
The NHS (the British system which I live under) covers abortions if your doctor considers it necessary for your physical or mental health. Abortions for all other reasons have to be paid for privately but at NHS rates.
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
61. Well the baby boomers, corpratist, and southern repiglicans think there is
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #61
78. I don't know why you're lumping boomers into with the other two
The Boomers I know (myself included) all lean heavily toward single payer.
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. But most are
Ever see a tea bagger rally or those birther people? 90% of them are boomers.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. I think it may be the size of the generation
you go to any of the DFL events in my area and 90% of the people there are boomers.
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. And the part of the country you're in.
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #86
180. Love the pic...
"Who would win in a fight? Lemmy or God?"

"Lemmy."

"Trick question! Lemmy IS God."
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
64. knr "Fight for it. It's WORTH it." Great post! n/t
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
65. K&R...and I will pass this around if you don't mind...
I dated a Canadian in the early 90's, and I was always amazed about how easy and inexpensive it was to get medical care; although I knew it was easier, because I knew Canadians in Florida where I grew up.

Thanks for posting!
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
67. KNR (nt)
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
69. That list should be nailed to the forehead of every person in Congress.
And shown to every faltering citizen.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
70. Excellent! Thank you for this! K&R
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
71. Rec # 120
Thanks for the info Canuckistanian :hi:
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
73. Seconded!...
Great post, Canuckistanian. :applause:

Sid
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
75. Where did you hear a sane HEALTH care system was in reach....
for the US? The only talk down here is for more INSURANCE. A public option, but insurance, none the less. Insurance does not = health care.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
76. Thank you :) K & R
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
80. Thank you. One question: Who pays for the drugs for the poor? I
am particularly interested in someone like my daughter who was born totally disabled and never has been able to work. What is happening in Canada with this group? England? France? Germany?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #80
93. Your daughter's prescriptions would be totally covered if....
your income level is below a minimum of, I believe, $24,000.00 and above that, to a certain income level, subsidized. Her care would be totally covered and, as an adult, I believe she would receive a disability pension as well.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #93
179. Thank you. This is the group I try to lobby for and it helps to know
what other countries are doing.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #80
201. In Alberta she'd be on AISH ( Alberta Income for the Severely Handicapped)
...and everything would be covered.

Other provinces have similar programs.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
81. When
I talk to my Canadian friends about our two health care systems they just laugh and shake their heads. They can't believe what a bill of goods we've been sold. They can't believe how much we pay out of pocket and how little we get for our money. The same thing happens when I talk to my friends that live in the UK. Its true the US has the most expensive health care system in the world - unfortunately since its designed to maximize corporate profits and not health outcomes its far from the best.

This is the fight of our lives - and yes its worth it.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
83. Well done.
~
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
84. Recommend
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
88. rec #147, and.... i could not recommend this enough.... nt
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
89. K&R. rec. #150
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 10:41 PM by invictus
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
94. Let's fight to get these in our new health plan! Nt
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lexanman Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
95. I dont understand how this system doesn't immediately collapse
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 11:35 PM by lexanman
I mean, this is the definition of evil and dictatorial socialism. What, no profit? Owners don't make 800,000 a year ripping off consumers with overpriced medical equipment like here in the good old Capitalist USA? No CEO's pulling down 50 million dollars a year in profit at the expense of patient health. My mind is just spinning and my head is about to explode. I was told Obama wants to "punish" these noble companies who deny pre-existing conditions so the CEO can have a new Porche, instead of actually providing health care. Im told over and over that how are owners and CEO's and top managers supposed to feed their families and keep a home if they cant profit. How on earth do you pay all the employees if you don't make crazy money? Could it be doctors and nurses and health care providers are actually paid what they are worth, and not some scum sucking CEO skimming millions off the top. Could that be it?

Im told by so many that our for-profit system is the best in the world. How can all of these evil socialist Canadian lies be true? Heaping helps of

:sarcasm:

Its not just health care people, its every business model that is for profit. Wake up! Rant off.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
96. K&R
:thumbsup:
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
97. One thing that is glaringly missing in the Canadian system.
I'm in canada on vacation right now. I run a health clinic in the US.

I noticed a lack of something here in Canada which is as common as gas stations in the US. In fact it is available at any gas station in the US.

What am I talking about? The poster advertising a fundraiser for some kid to get cancer treatment or something. Or the poster of someone's mother or father some treatment. I see one of those poster at every gas station in the US. I haven't seen a single one here.

Oh the humanity.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #97
101. I noticed that in Sicko
I was shocked to hear that it was such a common practice.

We do have them here in Canada, but it's usually to help out the families with incidental costs, such as food, caregiving or travel to and from distant hospitals.

But it's not something you see on a regular basis.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
98. K&R. This is beautiful ! Thank you !! //nt
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
99. Thanks for those points.
As a fellow Canuck, I am continually amazed at the lying and deceit about our medical system from the right wing machine down south on a nightly basis. But more astounded with the lackluster journalism from the News Media in actually calling these guys out...maybe interview actual Canadians would be a start. Maybe they're having trouble finding one disgruntled enough.
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qwertyMike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
102. Canadian here
Like Canuckistan I have been wanting to make such a post, but I can't because my hands tremble when I get SO FUCKING ANGRY at what I hear from the GOP and Mod. Dems about Canada.

I've had it all, hospital stays, many rehab stays, 2 childirths, countless doctor visits and was even offered a choice of plastic surgery over suturing, a CHOICE, for a deep gash in my arm because the resident said it might look a bit ugly if she stitched it. The cut happened at 4pm on a Sat afternoon, and she hurried me into plastic surgery before midnight "to avoid the usual sat. night drunken bloodbath" as she called it. Car accidents, drunks fighting and so on.

I was home for breakfast Sunday.

Total cost of all the above and much more ZERO.

In fact if I had ever recived a bill I would have called my Member of Parliament.

I'm 64, have a $5 co-pay on each prescription. That co-pay disappears when I turn 65.

And if any of you visit Canada and get hurt or very sick you are treated immediately, no paperwork. You will probably get a bill weeks later, but . . . . well I hope you pay it. This applies to everyone, including illegals. Everyone.

Watch this video:
CNN: Canada's Former Minister of Health Reacts to Lies About System ('Absolute Nonsense')
I saw this on Rick Sanchez. Amazing


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=340159&mesg_id=340159

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. Hey, qwertyMike
Thanks for your story.

Sounds like you get a great deal for drug coverage there in Nova Scotia. We still have to pay for ours, but it's not expensive.

And yes, I've wanted to make a post like this for a while. I had no idea it would get so many rec's though.

Cheers!
:toast: :hi:
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Tindalos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
104. "Fight for it. It's worth it"
This Canadian whole-heartedly agrees with you. It's worth is beyond measure.

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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
105. Much the same here
I'm British and our system is much the same. We don't have any sort of premium, it's all paid for out of taxes (my income tax and NI add up to about 30%) and drugs are covered here. The only out-of-pocket cost is a fee of 7 for each prescription filled (the young, old and poor are exempt).

Now, we just need to close that bloody dentistry loophole.
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
107. I'm covered by the VA, and I could spout the same list.
Sucks to be you poor folks who actually need to get insurance. I'll take my 100% VA disability rating and associated health care ANY DAY over your insurance.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
108. Correction: BC MSP has a monthly premium
Beyond reasonable though. Alberta used to have one.

Every province is different. Everything else is spot on.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. Yes, I know. Spazito corrected me.
And I should have known better. Some provinces have fees, some don't.

I'm in Ontario, so I don't have to pay any.
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Swagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
110. ditto all of that for the Australian Medicare system..works exactly the same and
you get the very best of treatment with the doctor of your choice. All I do is pay a Medicare supplement with my taxes every week and if I'm unemployed the government covers that for me.

Funny isn't it that the government can also raise billions of dollars also for medical research.

In the last 5 years I've had 2 knee replacements and paid only for my tv by my bed in the hospital..that's all !.(could have used the comfortable lounge though for free). Of course nothing is free but this way everyone gets covered.

And you can have your own private gold plated healthcare if you want it.
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Habibi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
111. Thank you!
Linked to this on my Facebook wall; sent around to a big group in an email. This should go viral!
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Monk06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
112. Two links that show subsidy and premium schedules for medical and drug coverage in British Columbia

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/pharmacare/plani/planiindex.html#6


These two links will solve much of the confusion about
medical and drug coverage under MSP BC which is similar
to other provinces.

Personally I qualify for full medical disability due to
COPD. I have income assistance and all my medications and
visits with GP's and Specialists are paid for as are,
motorized scooters, oxygen, physiotherapy and household
nursing assistance for those who need these services.

I'm not there yet but presently I pay $0 for drugs or medical
care and I don't pay monthly premiums.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
113. K&R
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a kennedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
115. k & r
:patriot:
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kedrys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
116. Thanks for that list!
We're in Montreal. I'm Canadian, and my spouse is American, with a permanent resident application pending. In the meantime, I had to buy private insurance, which is tax-deductible. Anything medical that doesn't get reimbursed is tax-deductible (doctor visits, tests, medicine, etc.) Plus I get tax credits because my spouse is not allowed to work until the resident status is finalized, so I can essentially claim my spouse as a dependent. Compared to our astronomical health insurance premiums in the States that cost more and covered less and less every year, well, the math is obvious.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
119. i am not bullshittin'
you have GOT to help me find a job in Canada...PM me if you like...
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
120. The insanity we've been living under for so many years. Who wants to keep it?
Other Americans who willingly or blindly suck at the fruits of our own misery. Nobody hates Americans more than "conservative" Americans.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
121. Proud to be the 200th Rec.
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
122. K & Highly rec'd nt
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
123. Sounds like a wonderful, beautiful dream. K & R.
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
124. I digress
I have read with interest all the posts on this thread
praising the Canadian health care system over the U.S. one but
I am one Canadian that disagrees.

I am 69 years old and have led a healthy life style with no
smoking or drinking, plenty of exercise, vitamin and other
supplements, etc. I have probably paid between 100k and 200k
into the system in premiums(BC) and indirect taxes (about half
of provincial income tax collected goes to health care) and
received a minuscule amount in benefits. I feel that my tax
dollars have simply helped subsidize the obese, smokers,
drinkers and hypochondriacs in our society.

I am sure that an insurance policy with a high deductible to
insure against catastrophic illness or accident would have
served me much better financially over my lifetime.

I knock on wood that I don't yet require a huge payout from
the system but at this point I would opt for a choice instead
of the socialized alternative.   
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #124
126. Really? I believe you are a liar. Plain and simple. Your post is meant to appeal to the most
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 09:23 AM by Raster
basest, vulgar and selfish instincts in all of us.

Be gone. Your purpose is to disinform and derail pertinent discussion.
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #124
127. What you are doing is not "digressing"
It's quite on topic, if you must know. However, I will put to you this.

If, by age 69 you have put in only about 100-200K then you are miles ahead of the game when it comes to the cost of insuring an American worker. Most workers, with a "good" health plan, will have spent (if their employer gave them the money instead of withholding it from their paycheck) at least that much by age 40. The average "full coverage plan" can be between $8-10K per year. A person who has been gainfully employed since 18 with a job that provides health benefits has lost roughly 200K in potentially earned wages by the time he/she reaches 40.

Welcome to DU... I guess.

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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #127
132. Numbers
I am not sure about the numbers and I am talking 1959 to
present dollars not all 2009 dollars. I was an above average
earner and retired at 60 so if I didn't over contibute to the
system I don't know where they got the money from.
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #132
165. Ah. I see...
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 02:48 PM by ElboRuum
That changes everything... :eyes:

The fact is that we are talking about spans of 20+ years and I'm taking that into account.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #165
195. I'm sure he would feel better
If he had been hit by a bus in 1969 and rendered a paraplegic with painful neuropathies from a shattered lumbar spine. Then he would have at least gotten his money's worth. :eyes:
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #124
128. Lucky you. But in a for-profit "choice system" as in the US, all your healthy lifestyle
will mean absolutly nothing if something catastrophic happens to you - especially end of life issues, which are pretty much all catastrophic, unless you go quickly in your sleep with no previous indicators.
In a medical "for profit" system, all that will count would be how much money you saved up and where you are in the corporate ladder. You'll still have to pay for your health care - you'll just pay the majority of it when you need help the most.

Of course, you probably wouldn't see even that at 69, if what you say is true. You're eligible for Medicare, and if you're willing to give up almost everything you've worked for and saved up, you can pay for all the things that happen to you when you're old.

My mother just turned 70. To be comfortable and continue her current healthy lifestyle (she looks and acts like a 50 year old), she's going to need knee and back surgery. Things are starting to fall apart on her, and even though she sees her "socialized" TriCare provided doctors - her rhumetologist, her GYN, her GP, regularly (dad is a retired vet and gets the public health care), the costs she doesn't see are starting to add up just on maintenence. Her genetics show she should be able to live up through her mid to late 90's so long as she keeps herself healthy.
But again, the costs to maintain that health are going up. If she wasn't under public health care and had to live off what an employer or what she could buy on the open market, her premiums just to maintain her health would be around $1400 - $1500 a month for her alone - because of all the other obese, smokers, genetically unhealthy, and hypocondriacs that are in the market place looking for health care and skimming "profits" off the companies that are providing it.

For profit health care just means that the money you spent to pay for your health care when you need it is subsidizing some CEO who's gaming a financial system for his or her third summer home, than to subsidize some poor slob who lost the genetic lottery and needs $10K in procedure and care to fix his problem so he can live a healthy, productive life and his tax dollars can help pay for both your safety and comfort.

Haele
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #124
130. Hello, there, Mr. Cigna! nt
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #124
131. ROFLMAO!
What a LOAD of horseshit! I was going to tear your crap apart piece by piece but, instead, my advice to you is to at least do a modicum of homework on the subject BEFORE you attempt to post mistruths you hope someone will believe.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #131
133. Hey ROFLAO
I don't know why you would think I am lying. I grew up and
lived in Saskatchewan the birthplace of universal medical
insurance in North America when introduced in the early
sixties so I know of what I speak. At the time there was much
concern of abuse of such a system by people running to the
doctor for every little ache or pain. Not much has changed
judging by the waiting rooms of some of the (free) walk-in
clinics here that I have seen. No system is perfect but some
choice in coverage would be my preferred option.  
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #133
134. Another piece of advice...
If you are in a hole, stop digging. I actually did live in British Columbia and am actually a Canadian that's why I know you are trying to shovel a load of crap. The least you could have done was to douse the load with a little perfume ie homework on how the payment system works between the Federal government and the Provinces. Citing you lived in Saskatchewan, believe it or not, doesn't help your sale at all.

Oh, and not to be a nitpick or anything, my header was ROFLMAO (Rolling on floor, laughing my ass off) as opposed to ROFLAO, tsk, tsk, more homework needs doing.
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #134
137. ROFLMAO
"how the payment system works between the Federal government and the Provinces" I don't know what I am supposed to know about the intricacies of this to prove what I have said. Ask me something only a Canadian would know if you want proof.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #137
138. Canadians, real Canadians, would know immediately what I was...
referring to, it was a test and you failed badly. The reference to Federal/Provincial payments WAS a question a Canadian would know and you, quite obviously, have NO IDEA about it.

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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #138
139. Was a test ?
Sorry Spazito but I don't know what you are talking about. I actually find this thing quite funny as to why you people think I am lying. Do you think every Canadian thinks we have the best health care system when we are actually 30th or something.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #139
147. "Sorry Spazito but I don't know what you are talking about."
I know you don't, you don't even know what YOU are talking about, that was exactly my point.

Canadians favour their health care to American system: poll
Provided by: The Canadian Press
Written by: Steve Rennie, THE CANADIAN PRESS
Jul. 10, 2009

The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey suggests 82 per cent of Canadians believe our system is better than U.S. health care.

snip

Currently, 47 million U.S. citizens - mostly the poor - have none. The U.S. also has the highest health-care costs of any country in the industrialized world.

Those figures might explain Canadians' preference for their own health-care system, said Harris-Decima vice-president Jeff Walker.

"I think what's happened over the last year or two is that even more problems associated with the U.S. health-care system have come to light," he said.

http://health.lifestyle.yahoo.ca/channel_health_news_details.asp?news_id=18654&news_channel_id=131&channel_id=131

I do appreciate your responses as it keeps bumping this great OP and increases its visibility!



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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #147
151. Spazito - Global comparison
I notice you neglected to comment on where we rate on the
global scale. I am sure a majority of Canadians think we have
a better system than the U.S but if the health conscious ones
did the math on what their actual costs were over a lifetime
of taxation I don't think they would be so sure. As a younger
person I also felt we had a good system but age has changed
that opinion. The destitute still get some health care
services in the U.S. even if they don't have insurance from my
understanding.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. Thanks again for bumping the thread up!
It seems you not only don't understand the Canadian system, you are totally unaware of the US system, the system to which I believe you 'belong'. Why am I not surprised!



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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #153
155. So long
Goodbye Spazito. Just keep smiling and paying your taxes into a system that ranks way down there on a global scale. I never claimed to be an expert on either system but one thing I know for sure is that I have been ripped off by the Canadian system.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #155
157. Bye bye!
I hope, now that you have your homework assignment, you will actually do some of it, it might, just might open your eyes!

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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #151
166. Why is it Freepers always turn on the "plain text" feature and disable their profile?
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #166
168. I think they think we can't tell it's them... they're being sneeeeaaaky.
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #166
169. Hello
Didn't know I was a Freeper(whatever that is) but here is my profile for what it is worth.
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #134
174. Info
Please see posts #170 and 173 if you haven't yet. Proof enough?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #174
177. Ahh, welcome back!
No, knowing a sports term doesn't convince me of much, sorry, given the conversation was regarding healthcare, how it's funded in Canada it was not about football.

Your knowledge about the Canadian healthcare system is abysmal and knowing a football term used in Saskatchewan doesn't fix that.
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #177
178. Thank you
You are funny and no doubt a baby boomer female(undeclared in your profile). I would match my knowledge of the Canadian health care system or any other topic with a puppy like you any time.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #178
181. I really hate to do this to you but ROFLMAO yet again...
I gave you an opportunity to "match" my knowledge of the Canadian Healthcare system and yet you knew nothing of how the funding of the system works, had NO IDEA what I was talking about and I even gave you a hint re Federal funding, yet you still had NO idea.


I did love the "puppy" comment, it was precious but, yet again, totally irrelevant to the discussion as was the reference to "baby boomer", which was even more 'huh' worthy than the puppy one.

Here's a goodie for you, though! What is the CCF and what is it's connection to Canadian Healthcare?

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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #181
184. CCF
Now that is an easy one for a former Saskatchewatonian. Socialist party that first started universal hospitalization coverage in the Swift Current health region and universal health insurance in 1964 which was copied by the federal government and the rest of the provinces at a later date.

I don't know why you keep saying I know nothing about the funding of health care in Canada as you ask nothing specific about it. I will say that the federal government now contributes a much smaller share after Paul Martins deficit reduction a few years back.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #184
185. How about the other CCF?
The one harper's neocons and B.C.'s old SoCreds support?
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #185
186. Other CCF
Sorry I concede you've got me there. Explain.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #186
190. Okay, will do...
It is the Canadian Constitution Federation and here is some info for you:

The Calgary-based CCF is an extremely right-wing legal advocacy organization (and registered charity) that uses Charter challenges and public campaigns to promote its vision of "constitutional freedom"- specifically individual and economic "freedom", property rights and the restriction of government - and to defend the Constitution against "improper decisions or actions of governments, regulators, tribunals or special interest groups." The CCF is radically ideological and strongly linked with other right wing causes and organizations, most notably the Fraser Institute.

The CCF was founded in 2002 by lawyer John Weston of Vancouver to fund James Robinson's legal challenge to the Nisga'a Treaty (an aboriginal land claim in B.C.). Weston left the CCF and the Robinson case in 2005 in order to focus on his political ambitions as a federal Conservative candidate in West Vancouver (he was narrowly defeated in 2006 despite the support of Dr. Michael Walker, former Executive Director of the Fraser Institute). The CCF hired John Carpay, a former Reform candidate and the Alberta director of the Canadian Taxpayer Federation, to be the CCF's new Executive Director. The organization relocated to Calgary and re-launched itself in the summer of 2005.

The Canadian Constitution Foundation (CCF) funded, in 2007, a Charter challenge, to single tier Public Medicare in Ontario. This group also launched a class action against single tier in Alberta in 2006. The goal appears to be to extend the Chaoulli decision outside of Quebec to bring down the ban on two-tiering and to widen the opening for two-tier Medicare, extra-billing, user charges and out-of-pocket payment for medical care.


Given your beliefs as espoused in your "I digress" post, this is an organization that may well suit your needs and they ARE a registered charity too!


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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #185
187. PS
It must be tough living where you do with your political views. I spent 7 years in Calgary.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #187
188. Ahh, not Calgary here...
I live in what could be considered the "liberal" oasis of Alberta, St. Albert, a bedroom community of Edmonton, the city members of CRAP love to hate so it ain't bad at all.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #133
140. I've never had a doctor complain about "aches and pains"
The don't mind seeing me when I'm "normal" and take the opportunity to ask about routine health issues and take a blood pressure.
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #140
143. Dollars
Why would a doctor complain about you coming to see him(her) for minor or routine issues when they get a fee for it? Much better than having to tell someone they have cancer or some such thing. I have my own blood pressure tester and it looks to me like you are a system abuser that I have talked about.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #143
167. Yeah, well, when I come in complaining of chest pains and shortness of breath
...they say I did the right thing, even if it did turn out to be pulled intercostal muscles and asthma.
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #167
171. Come again
Chest pains and shortness of breath are hardly routine matters. I would also go and get that checked out.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #133
170. Well I'm in Saskatchewan right now.
What's rider pride?
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jimha Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #170
173. Rider pride
Cheering for the good old Saskatchewan Roughriders that won the Grey cup in about 66 I think it was with Eagle Keys as coach Ronnie Lancaster at quarterback George Reed at fullback and who can forget gluey huey the wide receiver. Satisfied?
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #173
175. Yep.
I'd activate my profile if I were you. If you stick around welcome to DU.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #175
176. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Fla Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #124
189. This would be a remarkable story except for two points:
Edited on Wed Jul-22-09 05:52 PM by Fla Dem
1.) You imply you have never received anything but "minuscule benefits". You retired at 60 (cited in downstream post), which means you are either a remarkably healthy individual or lucky. Usually by 60, even the healthiest individuals have required some medical care or hospitalization; broken bones, pneumonia, appendicitis, gallstones, infections, etc. Also, if you are a family man, wife/kids.....did the 100K to 200K you paid in taxes cover their health care as well? And if so, then you certainly received benefits when your child(ren) were born. And if you have/had a family were they as healthy as you? No childhood disease and the like? Just asking.

2.) You mention you began working in 1959. So as of 2009 that's 50 years. If over 50 years the average you paid in taxes for health care was $3000 per year that's $150,000 for 50 years of health care. That my friend is a bargain. You say you would opt for choice. If given the choice and you elected an "American Style Health Insurance Benefit" you would have paid much, much more over those 50 years, plus co-pays and deductibles. One major medical hospitalization will eat up that $150,000 in the blink of an eye. Had you opted for No insurance at all, then I guess based on your claim of minuscule medical need, you certainly would have been ahead in the game. But then, when the time comes you need medical care, who would pick up your costs? Those of us that do pay for insurance, that who.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #124
194. So you're NOT your brother's keeper
God wouldn't like you very much...

Nor would the FSM...

--------------------
But...

This is a right-wing computer, right? It's a Touring test, right?

Very stilted language, no rational process seems to be in evidence...

I guess computer!
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garthranzz Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
125. THIS NEEDS TO GO VIRAL!!!!!
Spread the word!!!
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #125
144. It did. It's on DailyKos
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
129. One more: "Claim denied."
Thanks for the list.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
136. Excellent! Smashing! K&R.
KIck. I hope that this gets picked up.

Thanks, Canuckistanian!
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Veruca Salt Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
142. Kicking as this needs to stay at the top
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
145. knr!!! n/t
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
146. Way to go Canuckistanian!
Most of us know this already. But, the vast majority of American citizens don't know about the half truths and myths. The reason is because our media is entirely one-sided. Indeed, even our public radio, NPR, gives a completely one sided view of healthcare issues. And it is this ignorance, perpetuated by the insurance industry dollar, that makes healthcare improvement so unlikely.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
148. convenient payment plan
I especially like the way that the Canadian Government lets its citizens pay for this service: 50% off-the-top income taxes on a family with $50K of income, and by destroying a great part of Alberta by extracting oil tar sands.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #148
150. LOL, 50% off-the-top???
Federal tax rates for 2008 are:
15% on the first $37,885 of taxable income, +
22% on the next $37,884 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $37,885 and $75,769), +
26% on the next $47,415 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $75,769 and $123,184), +
29% of taxable income over $123,184.

http://www.tax-services.ca/income-tax-rates-2008.html

Wanna try again?
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #148
199. Ummm...WTF???
"Off the top" of something, alright. But certainly nothing within reach of FACT.
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
152. I notice the fake Democrat(s) claiming to be a Blue Dog
has nothing to say about the great Canadian system. Seems to be speechless.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
158. AWESOMELY EXCELLENT POST!!!
Perfectly stated!

:applause:
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #158
161. Thanks, Nance!
Boy, I didn't think my little post would get so much attention!

How are things in Toronto, my old home town? Stinky enough for ya?
:hi:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #161
164. Well, it's less than pleasantly aromatic at this point!
But we soldier on.

Of course, the raccoons are having the time of their lives - an all-you-can-eat buffet, 24-7 - gives our "Taste of the Danforth" festivities a whole new meaning.

Your post is excellent - you've captured everything with precision and eloquence!

I had a potentially fatal medical misadventure in 2007, which required months of treatment, at-home nursing care, and multiple visits with a number of specialists. Had we been living in the States, we no doubt would have been bankrupted by the bills - and I am not kidding about that.

The misrepresentations of the Canadian healthcare system by the GOP and the insurance industry in the US never fail to get my blood boiling - good thing I can see a doctor about that condition, should the need arise!



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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
159. Another one: "Charging Room". A Canadian RN at a health care convention I
attended in Sacramento said when she rounded in an American hospital, one nurse asked her if she'd been shown the charging room. This is the room where supplies are kept, scanned and charged to the patient in American hospitals. (some use stickers or check marks beside items, but same difference).

She said she thought it must be a place where people could charge their cell phones or IV pumps or other electrical items and was surprised to see it was a room where patients were charged for everything from cotton balls to alcohol preps to high ticket items like central line kits, etc.

In the ER where I now work, if a patient gets hungry they get a boxed, cold turkey sandwich with wilted lettuce and an 8 oz juice. Cost to pt: $80.00.

GO CANADA !
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
160. Just saw a TV ad with an alleged Canadian
warning Americans that we should NOT want a Canadian-like healthcare system, as she would be dead from her brain tumor had she waited to get treated in Canada. It's these fear tactics we're up against.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #160
162. For-Profit insurance tool Shona Holmes is a FRAUD.
LSS, Ms. Holmes, a Canadian citizen, had supposedly a "life-threatening" tumor that was ruining her vision and needed it removed. Rather than go to the Canadian doctors, she went to a US Mayo Clinic and had it removed right away. Therefore, according to the hit-piece ad, this means the Canadian health care system sucks and such a system would surely be "the Death of the US as we know it!"

Or is it all a buncha hooey?

It appears not only were these ads funded by Americans for Prosperity and Patients first (both Right Wing "Red Menace"-peddling organizations), but Shona's story and background is questionable as well . . . It appears her problem wasn't really life threatening and she's pushed for a Privitization of Canada's health care with conservative groups there. Read on . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6102187
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dropkickpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #160
197. Funny thing is, it wasn't even a fucking tumor
it was a benign cyst cyst that was NOT emergent in any way, shape, or form. She's a real person and real patient, but since there were patients with real tumors that were real emergencies and her condition was benign, yes, she was goning to have to wait to get it dealt with. Just as I had to wait to get a mole removed when I was on ghetto health inssurance (medicaid) because it was benign but the guy I wanted to see was a melanoma specialist and he had real cancer patients lined up ahead of me. I was okay waiting.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
172. From another Canadian,that sounds about dead on Canuckistanian.
That the USA doesn't have universal care is just not right.
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ROFF Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
182. Peace of mind
There is another aspect that does not get discussed much, peace of mind. I retired at the age of 53 (10 years ago) partially because I knew I would not have to worry about health care costs. I was a maintenance man at multi-line retailer(food petroleum lumber hardware etc). The guy who took my job got a step up and so on down the line.

This peace of mind has a value that cannot be measured. For example. About 27 months ago, my mother, who was 84 at the time went to see her doctor complaining that she had difficulty breathing through her nose. This was on a Tuesday. He looked up her nose and scheduled her to see a specialist two days later (Thursday). The specialist saw her and diagnosed cancer. The next day she went to the Cancer Clinic to have a lead mask made for Radiation treatments. Her series of 35 treatments (5 per week for 7 weeks) started the next Wednesday. So, EIGHT days after seeing the GP her treatments started. She had a little trouble managing her medication and was put in the hospital for a week to get back in balance.

After the 35 treatments the specialist said that she was cured. This surprised the crap out of me because I thought a doctor would never say this to a cancer patient. But follow-on examinations showed that he was right. She is 86 now and goes every 6 months to be reexamined. Now that is peace of mind.

BTW her cost $0.00

Another thing to think about. It is to the Health Care systems benefit that the patient is cured the first time. Repeat visits for the same thing are expensive.

Anyway, there are many aspects that are not discussed but should be. I guess that I will have to post more.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. Excellent post!
Thank you for sharing your personal story, it is much appreciated and Welcome to DU! There are a number of Canadians here and we, thanks to our gracious hosts, even have our own forum, it is located under Country and International Forums, here is the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=190

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blaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
192. Damn. Too late to R!!!
But I'll happily K!!!

Would you consider sending this to the Denver Post? I'd love to see if they'd publish it.

[email protected]

Thanks so much for such a great outline!! :hi:

:patriot: (wish I had a Canadian version of this smilie :) )
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
193. Kick (n/t)
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
198. Kick.

Every day, 273 people die due to lack of healthcare in the U.S.

We need single-payer healthcare NOW. Find out about single-payer from the Physicians for a National Health Plan. Who should you trust -- insurance company fatcats who make money by denying you care, or doctors who care about their patients?


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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
200. ttt
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
203. Whilst I agree with you on your post, you have to remember that
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 12:38 AM by akbacchus_BC
health care differs in each Province. When Campbell got elected, he immediately took eye test off the medicare system plus it depends on the company you are with, glasses and contacts are not covered. If you are single, dental care is not 100% covered. I love your system especially when one has to go to emergency, it's a triage system but it works and I admit, the best doctors work in our hospitals. However, our system is not perfect but it works for us. Big companies are able to negotiate better coverage but a small company of 30 does not have the same advantage.

Transit employees have a much better health care than small businessess but all in all, our system is excellent!

Edit to say'our' system, not 'your'
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
204. Bravo.
I try to stay out of this argument, but as an American long resident in Canada, I'm at a complete loss as to how health care in my country has declined so precipitously over a few short decades that America is now a laughingstock on the issue. An absolute laughingstock, an international disgrace, a nation that barely has a pretense to being considered civilized on this and many other issues. It's nothing more than a goddamn disgrace. I love my country, but in so many ways I hate what it has become: the United States of Sophistry.

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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #204
205. JeffR, you and Nance are such a great voice of reason on here, I
really appreciate that and I love that am Canadian. Having said that, I really wish President Obama can get his health care reform go through. Too many Democrats are opposing him and that is sad! If he does not get this through, am not sure what he can do to regain the trust of Americans who voted for him! Why are the DLC so opposing him?
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #205
206. Thank you very much. The sad reality is that some Dems simply bite.
My Congressman (Georgia 12th) is a classic Blue Dog, i.e. pretty much good for nothing. My absentee vote helped the little bastard squeak out the smallest electoral margin in the country that first year he was elected. By the time he ran for re-election two years later, after calling and writing his office over a number of important votes he came down on the wrong side of, I wrote in the name of his progressive and unsuccessful primary challenger. These people are pigs, beholden to corporate interests but always happy to wrap themselves in the flag of pseudo-populism. Conventional wisdom has it that they have to hew to a more conservative line in order to get elected at all. My take is that it's time to stop bothering with people like them at all. Leave the districts beyond hope to the utterly hopeless Republicans and let the chips fall where they may. Majorities in both houses mean little when the results, again and again, are what they are.

It makes me feel very bad that I haven't appreciated enough over the years just how very civilized Canada is. I do now and I will continue to do so.

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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #206
207. Thank you for your response. I really do love my country and I wish
all Americans can have our health care system. But from what am seeing, a lot of Democrats in the Senate are opposing the Public Option and am wondering why? Don't they want their fellow Americans to have access to health care?
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #207
208. They probably wouldn't mind personally, but their corporate masters
are calling the tune they dance to, and their corporate masters are not at all keen on the idea.

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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #208
210. Thank you for that perspective but what can we do to help President
Obama to make health care universal for the American people who have been so disenfranchised? The horror stories I hear on here are mind boggling. Is there anything we can do apart from writing letters and sending e-mails. I tried, I was told my voice don't count, I live in Canada!

You all got to fight for a better health care reform! It makes me so sad that people seek treatment when their symptoms are so far gone. And then there is no hope or the medical care is so expensive, they have no alternative!
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #210
212. You're right. A lot of it, it seems, is conditioning.
And the conditioning has been going on for 30+ years. A whole generation of Americans has grown up believing this is the way things are and have to be. The media's heavily involved in it, the right-wing propaganda machine is in on it, and Americans have been conditioned to think - despite all evidence to the contrary - that we're still (rah, rah, rah) a world-beater. It really gets to me at times. It should get to everyone. And on no other issue are the opinions of Canadians, first cousins of Americans for centuries, more important to shaping American domestic policy. I urge you to keep trying, and I thank you for what you've done.

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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
209. Being Canadian i take for granted my AMAZING healthcare system -- this drama in the States is like a
movie...a bad one at that... :popcorn:
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #209
211. And we are so lucky! How could the richest and most powerful nation
on earth is denying its citizens basic medicare? That is mind boggling!
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