Is President Obama really ready for the backlash if a bad healthcare bill is passed?

[rudy23]

This is the man who can give a memorable and resonant speech any time he wants to. He threw single payer off the table without a word of protest.

Let's see what happens a year, two years from now when the "Sicko" stories keep piling up. President Obama is making a mockery of his own campaign, and a mockery of all of us who were dumb enough to believe a politician can come along and capture the presidency WITHOUT selling us out to corporations.

I feel so stupid for believing this time. This is a horrible narrative for the president to write---does he realize how badly it will cripple his presidency?

[villager]

1. that and the spineless, shitty environmental policies, you mean?

n/t

[uponit7771]

2. Like? TIA...

[villager]

3. Like?

You haven't been reading much environmental news, then?

One small sample, from LBN:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3971999

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Why are you ignoring the 2.6 million acres of forest he just saved in Oregon?

As if I didn't know.

[villager]

7. why are you ignoring the things they could do easily -- like not road build in the Tongass

or not cave to ranchers in the matter of killing wolves, or not yielding in the destruction of mountain tops for strip mining, etc., which they refuse to do, as they cave in --again and again -- to special interests?

As if I didn't know.

Sure, "something" is better than nothing. One partially-saved ecosystem in Oregon isn't going to cut it, though, as this juncture in "eco history..."

[LiberalAndProud]

41. I'd like to point out that 381 acres is equal to 0.60 square miles

It might help to put things into perspective.

[earth mom]

24. Doncha know? It's ALL good when Obama does it.

:sarcasm:

:puke:

[Romulox]

55. Don't forget selling out labor while pandering to Wall Street. nt

[busymom]

4. Got a call yesterday

from one of my closest friends who lives in the UK.

Her 4 year old was born prematurely and has a speech problem. It got so bad this year because he can't make himself be understood and his peers started rejecting him. He has gone from a cute,happy boy to being isolated and having tantrums. There isn't money in the UK for all of the speech therapy etc in the schools so he was referred out for "intensive therapy" last year. After 6 months of waiting, he got the intensive therapy. It consisted of 5 meetings over the course of 5 weeks with a foreign speech therapist whom my friend had trouble understanding. There is only one speech therapist that can be afforded by the NHS for her entire region...and you get your healthcare in your region, not out of it. Her son enters real school next year and she is overcome with worry because the intervention (ummm...FIVE sessions??) obviously were ineffective. Of course, this is the same friend whose daughter had undiagnosed kidney reflux disease because her general practitioner wouldn't refer her to a pediatric urologist and didn't adequately treat her for years. This summer, the little girl finally had surgery after testing was done. She has serious damage now to both kidneys that could have been prevented.

All of my friend's healthcare if "free"...so-to-speak.

But...she is coming here for a visit in a few weeks and asked me if I can set something up with a speech and language pathologist for an evaluation and then 2 weeks of daily (if possible...and I'm sure it is) visits. We have a couple of different businesses to choose from and she will be paying for it all out-of-pocket...anything to help her son.

I guess we'll see what ends up happening here in the USA as things slide down that slippery slope. People think they don't have choices now? They get outraged? Just wait...

And fyi, my friend has no legal recourse or otherwise. In order to keep costs low, there are serious restrictions on litigation in the UK. Basically, you just suck it up when things go wrong. That will come here too. It has to.

[LiberalAndProud]

32. My insurance -- when I still had it,

wouldn't have covered the cost of speech therapy either. I'm almost certain they didn't list Speech Therapists in the catalog of preferred providers.

[kath]

56. Right - I don't think speech therapy is rarely, if EVER, covered by insurance here.

It is provided through the schools or through early intervention programs.

[busymom]

58. Schools...exactly...my

daughter had to have speech therapy that also was through the school. That is not within the budget in the schools in the UK.

[Leo The Cleo]

6. Maybe . . . Maybe Not!

If people without healthcare can get health care, then he'll get some decent reviews and argue for a better one. I'll say this, he'd better hit the road and do some rallies. Gotta make it visible.

[karynnj]

8. He NEVER promised single payer when he was running

His plan conceptually is very similar to the plan Kennedy has written. The biggest difference is that it does include the mandate that Edwards and Clinton favored.

The fact is, from what I've seen, the plan is an enormous step up from what we currently have.

Single payer is really off the table because of the way the American health insurance developed and the fact that a very large percent of Americans want what they currently have. Yesterday, I heard Obama speak in NJ - he was cheered both when he spoke of the public option and when he said that you could keep your doctor and your plan if you wanted. The fact that everyone from Dean to Kerry to Obama has said the latter thing means they know this is a popular thing to say.

[earth mom]

23. Excuses excuses. Obama needs to do the right thing. And you know it.

[karynnj]

48. The right thing is for him to push Congress - especially the Democrats

to pass the best bill they can. Additionally, he should use the platform he has to advocate for what he thinks the plan should be - using his eloquence and ability to communicate to Americans what is needed and get them to lobby their representatives.

He is in fact doing the second thing. I saw him in NJ yesterday. The two things he was there for were to get support for Governor Corzine and to push healthcare. My county's Democratic party had 10 50 people buses that went to the event, which was about an hour away. The Organizing For America (Obama's advocacy organization) forms supporting what he wants in a healthcare plan were passed around so people who had not signed up on the web could do so. Here is a local paper's coverage - http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20090717/COMMUNITIES/90717001/-1/frontpagecities/Rally+meant+to+boost+Corzine++but+Obama+stars

"But it was for President Barack Obama that the crowd — estimated by State Police at more than 17,500 — let loose its mightiest cheers. Obama spoke for more than a half-hour, promoting Corzine's re-election but spending most of his time lobbying for his health care reform proposal."

Obama was great speaking about this and other things.

[Oregone]

35. Because he was running

What one says to win an election is never a valid excuse to not do the right thing.


"the fact that a very large percent of Americans want what they currently have."

Just ask 3 out of 4 of the insured with a catastrophic health crisis if they liked their insurance--oh wait, thats right, they are bankrupt. Ya know, polling actually suggests over half (most) Americans prefer single-payer.

[karynnj]

47. Link please to a study that defines single payer that shows

the % of people in favor of it at over half. To help you, here's a link to polling report.com which archives polls on many issues and races - http://kerry.senate.gov/cfm/record.cfm?id=315929 Here is an interesting NYT/CBS poll where you can see the question asked and the responses. http://documents.nytimes.com/latest-new-york-times-cbs-news-poll-on-health#p=1 The closest you can get to single payer is question 43 - as single payer is a total rebuild from scratch of healthcare insurance - and it is 34%. Because this poll exists since the 1990s, you may want to look at the results for 1993, when Clinton tried to pass a plan or just look at the trend.

As to those with a catastrophic health care crisis, a better solution is something like Kerry's reinsurance of catastrophic costs.

So, Ya know - I am backing my statement with real polls - where are ya know your polls?

[Oregone]

50. Is this language clear enough?

"Which would you prefer: the current health insurance system in the United States, in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance, OR, a universal health insurance program, in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that's run by the government and financed by taxpayers?"

2003 Washington Post/ABC poll in which 62% favored Medicare for all

There are some other polls with a lot less clear language. Not that an argument to popularity is all that important in the first place.


"As to those with a catastrophic health care crisis, a better solution is something like Kerry's reinsurance of catastrophic costs. "

I wish that is where they started with this reform. I really do. It would of made the whole thing more effective and more believable, and more open to going single-payer later (this is actually a real path-way there).

[karynnj]

60. The problem in the poll is there are only two options and the question is a loaded one

Your only choices are the status quo and single payer. It is also from 2003.

I agree that Kerry's reinsurance could have been an ingenious way to get to single payer. It would definitely have cut costs on all policies by greatly reducing the risk to the insurer and then paying for covering that risk via a single payer government pool. I posted many times - in 2005 and 2006, that this could lead to single payer, because it could be done by simply lowering the threshold over time to gain more efficiencies. It really deserved being called the best, most creative idea of 2004. (I liked this link to a paper by Littlefield, Kerry's health care person, who had been a Kennedy aide. The idea was Kerry's stemming from his concern about the problems faced by small businesses where an employee has a catastrophic illness. http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~hhpr/publications/previous/04s/Littlefield.pdf )

I have not read the details of the Kennedy plan enough to know if they have something like this in there. I know Kerry did introduce it as legislation in the past and Kenendy spoke more positively about it in 2004 than he had to.

Kerry incidentally responded with this when asked about the public option on a diary he wrote refuting Palin on energy and environment -
"Been working very hard on the Finance committee to try to see it included. Harder slog than it ought to be. I ran for President with a public option as an anchor off my health care plan, want to see one now that we get to do reform. Would do Medicare for all if I could start from scratch, so I’m a definite supporter of a strong, national public option. We’ll see what we can do. Glad to see HELP Committee passed out a bill with one today – EMK and Dodd, you couldn’t have two better leaders on this issue."


http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/7/15/124310/060/125#c125

[frazzled]

9. There will be backlash whether a good, bad, or no healthcare bill is passed.

It will be either:

(a) too expensive (b) not big enough
(c) taxing the wealthy too much (d) not helping the poor enough
(d) helping the insurance companies (e) killing the insurance companies
(f) letting government bureaucrats decide your health care (g) failing to provide a strong enough government option

You get the picture, and should rest assured you will have something to complain about, no matter what kind of bill is passed. Though that should come with a medical warning: gloating is seriously bad for your health.


It's clear that even a moderately helpful health bill is having trouble getting passed. A massive change to single-payer was never a realistic possibility. You should be more worried that no health care bill will get passed.

[rudy23]

13. Obama has done nothing to remedy this, and make sure the backlash comes from the "right" people

I.e., not the people who just put him into office.

Sure, someone will complain. I'd like to see the people who just lost the White House and Congress doing the complaining b/c that's how our system is supposed to work. Elections are supposed to have these consequences.

As it stands, Obama has done nothing with his popularity, speaking skills, the bully pulpit, or anything else to push popular opinion towards single payer healthcare. This will have dire consequences on the narrative of his presidency, which is shaping up to read that Obama is another bought and paid for politician who duped us all.

[SpartanDem]

16. So you're faulting him for not pushing something he didn't even run on?

[rudy23]

17. Did you see today's article in Salon?

www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/05/16/sirota/

"In that speech six years ago, Obama said the only reason single-payer proponents should tolerate delay is 'because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.'"

[dolphindance]

27. The problem is, blue dog democrats are pretty much just like republicans here.

So we haven't REALLY taken back the Senate. At least not for really "left" type things like single payer health care.

[masuki bance]

37. Todays article? That is dated 5/16. nt

[rudy23]

40. I was confusing that with today's article blasting Obama on healthcare.

There is something he could do to remedy all this bad press.

[CakeGrrl]

10. No, he's a naive rube who just lucked his way here.

He has NO clue about cause and effect. Thank gawd there are plenty of people here to edumacate him about the ways of the world.

:evilgrin:

[rudy23]

14. I give you that, he didn't luck his way into the WH. He got there by touting Democratic policies.

Which he then immediately reversed course on, once he was in office and we were of no further use to him.

[scheming daemons]

42. He NEVER touted "single payer" during the campaign. Not once.

So.. he hasn't reversed on Health Care at all. not in the least.


He's doing the Health Care plan he RAN on.

[Vinca]

11. Are the Democrats in the House and Senate prepared?

I, for one, will never, ever vote for anyone who sides with the insurance lobby over the citizens.

[rudy23]

15. Me neither. And there will be lists so our like minded fellow voters can do the same.

There will be lists.

[BlooInBloo]

12. (shrug) ANY bill that isn't from Kucinich will be considered bad here....

Knowing that, there's little reason to pay much attention to what DUers say about it. They're going to hate it no matter what.

[scheming daemons]

44. Exactly.

Some people think that Obama's promises were the same as Kucinich's.


They weren't.


Obama is keeping his promises. The fact that these are NOT the promises that the Kucinichians wanted is the problem.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. I think Obama knows that he will occasionally disappoint us

He said as much during the campaign. Obama knows that it won't be possible to please all of us all of the time and any POTUS would be tying him- or her-self into gordian knots trying to do so. So, I believe that, yes, he will be prepared for a "backlash" although, frankly, judging by some people's comments here at DU, the "backlash" against him has been going on from nearly his entire Presidency so far.

However, it's impossible for any one of us to know right now exactly whether whatever ultimately gets passed and signed into law hurts or help us. There seems to be an awful lot of people here ready to assume the worst but the simple fact of the matter is that we won't know the effect of any plan until it has been implemented.

If something akin to what has been produced so far doesn't dramatically improve the situation, we will just need to keep mobilizing and pressuring Congress to continue working to improve it. Organizing to get rid of a few more Repukes and anti-reform (aka Blue Dog) Dems wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Whatever passes in the near future will likely not be the end-all be-all of health care reform and whatever passes WILL inevitably have some "rough edges" that will need to be smoothed over. It will NOT be *perfect* on the first go-around but doing nothing seems, at least to me, worse than doing nothing at all and I'm concerned that doing nothing will only further erode forward momentum towards reform of any kind.

[Autumn]

19. I hope he is, because if a

bad healthcare bill is what gets through there will be backlash.

[Writer]

20. Sometimes... just sometimes... I'm glad that none of you idiots are in office.

Because you're doing such an excellent job serving as underinformed rabble who can't stop their incessant need to backseat drive their politicians and can't understand WHY we have to - HAVE to, per democracy - discuss and come to a compromise with people who share different ideological views. It's a zero-sum game for you fools. Petulant politics from a pseudo-informed mass who only THINK they understand the political reality in Washington. Well, the truth is, none of us understand. And as much as complaining and dissatisfaction is a part of human nature, I wish that once - just ONCE - we would admit that politicians are where they are because they are both capable and willing to put up with the daily bullshit fed to them by the whining public interest groups, the whining reporters, and not to mention the whining, duplicitous, backbiting, two-faced American people. Politicians sometimes withhold truths from us. Why? Because sometimes we don't want to hear the inconvenient truths. We want to be lied to - no, seriously we DO - sweet little lies that help us go to sleep at night. We don't want to hear that 2,000 people losing their jobs during a near-depression economy might mean compromising on environmental regulation. We don't want to hear that in health care we have to balance giving people affordable access to health care while maintaining the high standard of health care in this country... provided by - YES - medical research CORPORATIONS. Instead it's ideology over reason. Idealism over sanity. Forget solutions, you say, they'd better damned well be YOUR solutions - or you'll take your marbles and go home. Forget the trust you originally placed in Obama's intelligence and the wisdom and education of his advisers. That doesn't matter to you and it never DID matter to you. What matters are your silly little litmus tests and microanalyses of whether that ideological curve has bent your way by two-tenths of a centimeter at the end of the day. The hard truth is that none of you will never be cut out to be politicians, but you're damn good at being underinformed rabble, and that is what you always will be.

This rant felt good. Quite good.

~Writer~

[rudy23]

22. Compromise doesn't bother me. Negotiating WEAKLY and caving instantly are what bothers me.

Wouldn't it be nice, after electing a president in a landslide victory, and getting 60 seats in the Senate, to see the Democrats using that leverage so that the compromise ends up more on our side of the fence than the Republicans?

The thing that Obama deserves backlash for, is how weakly he led on this issue, and how quickly he caved to insurance companies (who btw, spent a TON of money on his campaign.)

[redqueen]

28. ...

:applause:

[Uzybone]

29. I liked it much myself

[RoadRage]

30. Can you do me a favor?

And re-post this as an OP? That was fantastic.. and sadly will fall upon deaf ears to many hear on DU - but you are EXACTLY RIGHT.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Jennicut]

34. Yeah, that was awesome.

[masuki bance]

38. Shorter writer- Politicians>The People. nt

[BklnDem75]

39. That... that was beautiful...

:applause:

[rudy23]

45. For everyone making their own shill lists at home---this is a great place to start.

GOOOOO CORPORATIONS!!!!!

[scheming daemons]

46. A-fucking-men. If only that shit would fit on a bumpersticker.

[Deja Q]

52. Bumper sticker politics distract from the road...

and the time I had, it was more harm than good anyway...

Like Writer is alluding to, realism...

[boppers]

51. Nice rant, Writer.

"Petualant politics" certainly sums it up.

[ShortnFiery]

54. I wonder if you don't have your day job with the American Enterprise Institute (AEI).

That was beautifully presented bullshit.

TRANSLATION?

under-informed rabble = those who would dare allow the Bush tax cuts to expire and concurrently tax millionaires to help balance the cost of a truly universal health care system.

two-faced American people = any American who will stand in the way of continued corporate welfare programs presently ENABLED by all three of our Branches of Government.

Idealism over sanity. All of us THINKING "chattering classes" who see that OUR SENATE, in particular, takes its marching orders from both Wall Street and The Pentagon.

However, no worries: We have people with super high IQs (hired by the mega-corporations) to RATIONALIZE why most of us need to fight over the scraps while the Banksters and War Profiteers bleed our country dry of all treasures. :thumbsdown:

As both P.T. Barnum and his brethren within the A.E.I quip, "There's one born every minute."

If you honestly believe that the Senate will do the right thing for the American People above the interest of the corporations who bribe them every damn day, then you are part of the under-informed rabble. :evilgrin:

[Occam Bandage]

62. +1

[ipaint]

63. Mouseland

The Story of Mouseland was a story told first by Clarence Gillis, and later and most famously by Tommy Douglas, leader of the Saskatchewan Co-operative Commonwealth Federation and, later, the New Democratic Party of Canada, both social democratic parties. It was a political fable expressing the CCF's view that the Canadian political system was flawed in offering voters a false dilemma: the choice of two parties, neither of which represented their interests.

The mice voted in black cats, which represented the Progressive Conservative Party, and then they found out how hard life was. Then they voted in the white cats, which symbolized the Liberal Party. The story goes on, and a mouse gets an idea that mice should run their government, not the cats. This mouse was accused of being a Bolshevik, and imprisoned. However, the speech concludes by saying you can lock up a mouse or a person, but you can't lock up an idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas

Medicare
Douglas's number one concern was the creation of Medicare. In the summer of 1962, Saskatchewan became the centre of a hard-fought struggle between the provincial government, the North American medical establishment, and the province's physicians, who brought things to a halt with the 1962 Saskatchewan Doctors' Strike. The doctors believed their best interests were not being met and feared a significant loss of income as well as government interference in medical care decisions even though Douglas agreed that his government would pay the going rate for service that doctors charged. The medical establishment claimed that Douglas would import foreign doctors to make his plan work and used racist images to try to scare the public. Their defenders have also argued that private or government medical insurance plans covered 60 to 63 percent of the Saskatchewan population before Medicare legislation was introduced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas


What we need is a leader with the balls to represent the people.

[ipaint]

64. Tommy Douglas's own words

Mouseland (As told by Tommy Douglas in 1944)

(You can listed to Tommy tell this story in his own words in our Audio Files section )

It's the story of a place called Mouseland. Mouseland was a place where all the little mice lived and played, were born and died. And they lived much the same as you and I do.

They even had a Parliament. And every four years they had an election. Used to walk to the polls and cast their ballots. Some of them even got a ride to the polls. And got a ride for the next four years afterwards too. Just like you and me. And every time on election day all the little mice used to go to the ballot box and they used to elect a government. A government made up of big, fat, black cats.

Now if you think it strange that mice should elect a government made up of cats, you just look at the history of Canada for last 90 years and maybe you'll see that they weren't any stupider than we are.

Now I'm not saying anything against the cats. They were nice fellows. They conducted their government with dignity. They passed good laws--that is, laws that were good for cats. But the laws that were good for cats weren't very good for mice. One of the laws said that mouseholes had to be big enough so a cat could get his paw in. Another law said that mice could only travel at certain speeds--so that a cat could get his breakfast without too much effort.

All the laws were good laws. For cats. But, oh, they were hard on the mice. And life was getting harder and harder. And when the mice couldn't put up with it any more, they decided something had to be done about it. So they went en masse to the polls. They voted the black cats out. They put in the white cats.
Now the white cats had put up a terrific campaign. They said: "All that Mouseland needs is more vision." They said:"The trouble with Mouseland is those round mouseholes we got. If you put us in we'll establish square mouseholes." And they did. And the square mouseholes were twice as big as the round mouseholes, and now the cat could get both his paws in. And life was tougher than ever. And when they couldn't take that anymore, they voted the white cats out and put the black ones in again. Then they went back to the white cats. Then to the black cats. They even tried half black cats and half white cats. And they called that coalition. They even got one government made up of cats with spots on them: they were cats that tried to make a noise like a mouse but ate like a cat.
You see, my friends, the trouble wasn't with the colour of the cat. The trouble was that they were cats. And because they were cats, they naturally looked after cats instead of mice.
Presently there came along one little mouse who had an idea. My friends, watch out for the little fellow with an idea. And he said to the other mice, "Look fellows, why do we keep on electing a government made up of cats? Why don't we elect a government made up of mice?" "Oh," they said, "he's a Bolshevik. Lock him up!"

So they put him in jail.

But I want to remind you: that you can lock up a mouse or a man but you can't lock up an idea.

http://www.saskndp.com/history/mouseland.html

[Engineer4Obama]

65. I want to buy you a beer for that rant

So here take one:

:toast: :beer:

[Spazito]

66. Excellent rant!

:applause:

[Phx_Dem]

21. Yeah, he should just forget it and give up since the assholes

are already out in force criticizing a bill that hasn't been passed, and thinking up ways to critize it once it is passed.

Who needs Rush Limbaugh when we have people like you.

[rudy23]

25. Or he could push for a better bill.

That would help him avoid much of this criticism, too. Simple. The man is not a victim, he's earned this criticism.

[Sebastian Doyle]

26. If he signs a bad healthcare bill, he DESERVES the backlash

He can avoid that by vetoing the bill, if it's a corporatist bait and switch piece of shit. As I suspect it probably will be. :evilfrown:

[Beacool]

31. Yep, the man can deliver a good speech.

No one can argue that point. Hope, change, hope, change, etc., etc.

No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American public.
—H. L. Mencken


:eyes:

[Jennicut]

33. And he can inspire people to move toward the left on certain issues when they did not

thing they wanted to be there because of his personality...such as Reagan did. Except hopefully Obama won't abuse that ability.
The thing is, the majority of Americans want health care reform but then it gets complicated because not all agree on all the details.

[Beacool]

49. I don't know, Jenni.

Time will tell.

;)

[PretzelWarrior]

36. AHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHH!! Yes, he is. He's a leader

We can guarantee there will be manufactured "horror stories" just so idiot flat earthers can say they were right.

Why are you throwing such a hissy fit? Is it because you're afraid it is REALLY going to happen? Or is it because you are truly "concerned".

[rudy23]

43. "Manufactured 'horror stories'"? Is there already spin to defend this bill's failure?

I am afraid a backlash is going to happen, b/c I think Obama is acting on some horrendously short-sighted political advice. The same ol' "let's keep our powder dry, never offend Repubs, and win the next election 51-49" DINO politics that hurt us during the Bush adminisration.

Only then, we were in the minority. Do you remember Bush carping on and on about bipartisanship when they had the numbers?

[WI_DEM]

53. Nobody knows what kind of bill will pass as yet because no bill has even been reconciled

and my guess is that we will get a bill with a public option and it will be more than any other president will have accomplished on health care.

[jasi2006]

57. I think he is ready for everything and anything.

He already said if you don't like what I do, fire me in 2012. i don't think he really givesa damn. His attitude is: "What you think of me is none of my business."

Some detractors call it arrogance. Others confidence. Whatever it is, it is. And he steps right up to plate and takes a swing.

[truedelphi]

59. I don't know if he threw single payer off the table without

hearing A Single word of protest.

According to Bill Moyers, the only people allowed at the Obma discussions of Health care are those with 200K + to spend.

So it might surprise him to have to remember that to get back into office, possibly he won't be able to count on some of us.

On the other hand that statement of mine is probably naive. The thing is the Powers that Be are grooming idiot Palin as his opposition, and so once again, we will be unable to entertain voting for a third party as doing so will allow the Complete-and-total-meltdown-doofus into office.

[Occam Bandage]

61. He ran against single payer. Not for it. Against it.

He wasn't even committed to a strong public option while running. What exactly were you "believing," that he'd live up to his campaign promises? So far, so good.