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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-06-09 11:57 PM
Original message
So... No Single Payer... No Public Option...
Can someone please tell me what the hell is happening here? Where is the real reform? Am I just missing it?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-06-09 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Audacity of Nope
Edited on Mon Jul-06-09 11:59 PM by MannyGoldstein
Coupled with The Fierce Urgency of Whenever.
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Hate to rain on the mild obama bashing...
...but the current medical health estabishment system has been firmly entrenched in the american landscape
long before obama and has managed for many administrations to stay in power. Even when obama steps down and you
put your next pawn in the WH, the insurance companies will still be making out like a bandit, (the bandits they are)
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Obama played his part in making sure the public option had no teeth
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. now they spin it "obama wanted the public option but...."
emanuel is so thoroughly repulsive as is obama

"The president and his aides already have signaled a willingness to consider an alternative to a public plan under which a network of nonprofit cooperatives would compete with for-profit insurance companies. That is the leading idea in the Senate Finance Committee.

The Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, meanwhile, has put forward its own version of a government-run plan, closer to what most liberals and the White House favor.

On Monday, Mr. Emanuel said the trigger mechanism would also accomplish the White House's goals. Under this scenario, a public plan would kick in under certain circumstances when competition was judged to be lacking. Exactly what circumstances would trigger the option would have to be worked out."



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124692407982802911.html...
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Can You Imgine Obama Making This Speech?
"Yet our distress comes from no failure of substance. We are stricken by no plague of locusts. Compared with the perils which our forefathers conquered because they believed and were not afraid, we have still much to be thankful for. Nature still offers her bounty and human efforts have multiplied it. Plenty is at our doorstep, but a generous use of it languishes in the very sight of the supply. Primarily this is because the rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed, through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men.

True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence. They know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers. They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.

The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.

Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits. These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow men.

Recognition of the falsity of material wealth as the standard of success goes hand in hand with the abandonment of the false belief that public office and high political position are to be valued only by the standards of pride of place and personal profit; and there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing. Small wonder that confidence languishes, for it thrives only on honesty, on honor, on the sacredness of obligations, on faithful protection, on unselfish performance; without them it cannot live."


- from FDR's First Inaugural
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. Maybe somebody should provide Obama with a copy
of that short story, "The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson. "We've always done it this way." (Not an exact quote from the story, but you get the idea).

Most people have encountered that story by the time they graduate high school.

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Marsala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Washington is happening
Specifically, the Senate is happening. And the Senate is a truly ridiculous holdover from an 18th century compromise that has only grown increasingly broken with time.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. When did Congress send the President a heath care bill to sign?
n/t
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. No single payer, but at the end of the day, youll probably get a "public option"
Emphasis on option, whatever that means. Co-ops, exchanges, watered down medicare with conditional enrollment
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Oregone the prophet speaks...
again ;)))
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. You are speculating about a future thrown at you by a few and acting like it is the past.
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 12:04 AM by FrenchieCat
But I'm starting to realize that folks don't have much more to do than to hang on to a word or two and fly into a panic, and do poor imitations of the Chicken Little dance.

It's actually quite fascinating; to watch folks pointing fingers and yelling guilty.
Reminds me of a vigilantes going to the jailhouse to "get" the accused based on rumors about what some folks thinks they perhaps saw, all the while calling it justice.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Propbably relying on the Wall Street Journal- which is never very wise
and has only gotten more foolish now that Murdoch's in control.
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Rahm Emmanuel may have some inside info. I could be wrong. nt
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Speculations and reports have been going on for weeks......
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 12:28 AM by FrenchieCat
Any said that can be interpreted is being interpreted.

Its all becoming a bit too manic for my taste.

I've read the House plan....and I've read this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Last week, it was "reported" that Pres. Obama was for taxing health Benefits.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

then they got this wrong:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-06-29-obama-...

and this:
http://www.aim.org/don-irvine-blog/white-house-denies-h... /

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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I just wish they'd freaking do it already!
I'm sick of this.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Patience is key....and I don't think rushing anything through will necessarily get you
what you want.

Have you read the house plan? http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/06/house_dems_heal...
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asteroid2003QQ47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Just be patient,. Just be patient, patient, patient, patient.
The time has arrived to help millions of Americans living without a full measure of opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health . . .
and protection . . . against the economic effects of sickness.
--Harry S. Truman, September 19, 1945

If we can't at least call it Genocide Of the People By the People,
For (as an elite few and their apologists see it) the People
then we are truly fucked!
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. lame
.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. So, being "sick of this"
will lead you into hyperventilating on the wrong information instead of taking that
little time to do a research and find the accurate information.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Its possible they are floating viable ideas to judge support/backlash
So maybe people freaking out over crap details are doing a good thing. Who knows really though. Maybe its just media fodder.

But reports are all over the map, and it would definitely be premature to pin this reform down to anything specific yet. After the latest polling though, I doubt they will pass anything void of something labeled "public option" at least, whatever that ends up being
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Oregone, I don't agree with you very much, but you are dead on with this post.
The Democrats know that a "public option" is necessary. Whether it will actually be a "good" public option is anyone's guess at this point.

:hi:
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Frenchie, this should be a sticky...I can't stand some of the kneejerk based on our Lazy MsM reports
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. Perhaps you can fill us in on the truth with links to your sources

Or should we just sit around and wait for the signing of a final bill before we discuss this issue on DU?
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. Perhaps you can use some of your time
to do some research instead of relying on spoon fed information that is distorted to
influence people like yourself.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. So you don't use the internet for any news or information. How ya do that?
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 12:55 PM by Better Believe It
Do you live in a cave without access to radio, TV, newspapers and the internet websites?

Hardly.

Do you just boycott any and all newspapers, magazines, blogs, etc., that have websites because they all "spoon feed" false and reactionary right-wing propaganda?

I don't think so.

For your news and information do you depend entirely on official White House and other government news releases because you think they are objective and totally free of propaganda and political spin?

Please list the websites and other sources you think I should use to keep informed on political and economic issues.

I will gladly check out those websites that meet your high standards of journalistic objectivity and have won your seal of approval.

I'm looking forward to checking out your approved website list and hope that some progressive/liberal publications are included.
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. He must have lied when he said this
Mr. Emanuel said one of several ways to meet Mr. Obama's goals is a mechanism under which a public plan is introduced only if the marketplace fails to provide sufficient competition on its own. He noted that congressional Republicans crafted a similar trigger mechanism when they created a prescription-drug benefit for Medicare in 2003. In that case, private competition has been judged sufficient and the public option has never gone into effect."

No way would Obama let a smarmy liar like this anywhere near his staff.

Stop believing liars like Emanuel! Just ask Frenchie, she will tell ya - the guy is just lying - right Frenchie?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. He obviously misspoke..and Frenchie is right..
Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-07-09 10:54 AM
Original message
Straight from the POTUS mouth (re: Public Option)
A day after his chief of staff suggested the White House could live with a public option-free health care reform bill, President Obama released a statement (from Russia!) reaffirming his support for a government-run health care plan:

"I am pleased by the progress we're making on health care reform and still believe, as I've said before, that one of the best ways to bring down costs, provide more choices, and assure quality is a public option that will force the insurance companies to compete and keep them honest. I look forward to a final product that achieves these very important goals."

http://www.politico.com/politico44/wbarchive/whiteboard ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Or maybe the corporatemediaWHores got it wrong.
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. That is not a denial, that reinforces what Rahm said.
If he wanted to he could have said- public option only, no triggers. He chose not to.

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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Misspoke? So that is what the kids are calling lying now.
Or perhaps he didn't lie, President Obama merely stated, "that one of the best ways to bring down costs, provide more choices, and assure quality is a public option", one of the best is hardly the same as saying the only way he would accept.

Which is it? A smarmy corporate operative lying about his boss or a politician using words that are easily back-tracked later? Not a great choice unless the goal is to provide for insurers rather than the public that needs help more than those rich bastards ever did.

Or perhaps you realize this and are your self "misspeaking" (to use the euphemism of your choice).
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Whatever..nothing's ever good enough
for you Obama snipers.

We'll just see what happens..in the mean time speculate your heads off.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. They just WANT it to be as bad as possible so that their whines will be proven correct...
They're no different from end-days-ers, actually.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. DU is like a bad game of Telephone. Based on half assed reports from Murdoch Media
I know most of you have played telephone as a child, but here is a reminder:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2044551_play-telephone.html
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
30. please, you know damn well this will end up with the status quo maintained
and corporations making 30% profit out of sick people
it's busted badly and these people are agents of idustry-nothing chicken little about, just the way it is
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
18. My hope balloon is leaking air real fast.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
20. dead again today, huh?
wake me when they start voting on something, k? this drivel is getting boring.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
23. HR 676 "Medicare for All" single payer needs to be rated by the CBO to show its viability
Contact your Congresspeople and advocate for it to be rated.

It's a good option without all the bureaucratic convolusions we're seeing happening.

If Obama settles for some watered-down piece of crap, then we'll have gotten his message.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
27. I dont know, but it will not be solved ranting on the web.
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 09:23 AM by Mass
Call your rep and senators. Call the DNC, the DSCC, the DCCC, and make clear you will withdraw dollars until they pass a decent healthcare bill.

At this point, the healthcare industry is yelling more than the people, so they win. May be it is time this changes.

It is too early to capitulate, but it is also irresponsible not to act and believe that they will find a solution without being pushed doing so.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. Yeah, I just read the final bill they voted on and...
Wait a minute, I did no such thing and neither have you.

Just more simple-minded bashing.

And all the of the other usual suspects join in, too.

With nothing of substance to go on, except hate.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. ditto n/t
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Exactly... we don't know that there won't be a public option. There had better be.
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
38. Biggest mistake of Obama presidency thus far. This will create major apathy among Dem voters..
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
40. AGAIN...
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. If the OP was actually interested in facts
he would have started with one, cited a couple and put his opinion in context with known facts.


He is not going to respond to your reply because if he was interested in that kind of fact based discussion he would never have posted the OP that he did.


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