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Helen Thomas: Obama is Following In the Footsteps of President Bush

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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 06:55 AM
Original message
Helen Thomas: Obama is Following In the Footsteps of President Bush
Legendary White House correspondent Helen Thomas made an exclusive appearance on the Ron Reagan Show to talk about presidents past and present, Iran, health care, and other topics. She likes most of Obama's work thus far, but thinks his positions on Iraq and Afghanistan are larded with Dubya.

http://airamerica.com/blog/2009/jun/18/helen-thomas-obama-following-footsteps-president-bush
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Helen-Thomas-is-dead-to-me" posts beginning in 3, 2, 1 ... (nt)
Edited on Fri Jun-19-09 06:58 AM by ima_sinnic
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. He's a chess master
Helen is just such a neophyte. She doesn't understand that Obama is so much smarter than the rest of us. He is a chess master and is 10 moves ahead of us all the time. Heck, he's only been president 5 months. No one can be critical at all of a man whose only been president 5 months. Helen's just mad she didn't get her pony.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. yea i heard he is actually a cray super computer,,,,lightyears ahead of us
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. lol
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Please let us know when we can be critical of him.
I didn't get that memo.

Maybe they only gave it to people smarter than our President.

You must be very proud.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Read it three times
Go back, read it, consider the disconnected nature of the statements, and reconsider the message.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
53. In sellitman's defense, your "satire" has been reproduced almost verbatim in serious posts
Several times.

These days on DU, satire really has to move quickly to stay ahead of the cheerleading.
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Aloha Spirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. lol
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. Chess master?
Checkers, perhaps you meant? No? Tidily Winks?
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. God/Goddess bless Helen! The woman truly is a national treasure.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
47. Hear, hear! Helen rocks. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
49. More Roses for Helen!
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Another one voted off the island. n/t
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. WE WANT OUR FLOWERS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Ha! I wouldn't put it past them. n/t
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
45. That's what I thought people would say too.
I'm surprised no one has gone there yet!
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. See my post #49.
Helen Thomas is worth more that 99% of all journalists currently out there.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
54. I don't understand. We place Helen on a pedestal when she spoke the truth about Bush....
...but pull her apart if she goes against Obama?

We either trust her or we don't. I trust her.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP
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purplecat1 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
64. I always thought
she should have retired like 30 years ago. She can be a little loopy.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. When Helen talks---I listen.

gulp.
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Gotta love Helen Thomas.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
44. I'd do her....
...if she were only fifty years younger...
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. I love Helen, but this idea that Obama is the same on Bush in regards to Iraq is just wrong.
It's not Obama's fault that he was given this war. And, I don't see how you can blame him for ending it responsibility. He certainly wouldn't have started it, and Bush would still be resisting end it; even now.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Exactly. Helen should not rush to make judgements like this. Give the man some time.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Yeah, like Helen hasn't sufficent experience to "know" better!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Obama has NO plans to end the WAR in Iraq.
If you go back and read the fine print, Obama has promised to keep the Occupation going indefinitely.

Obama has only promised to draw down some troops at some future date if conditions permit. He HAS promised to leave "residual forces" that will exceed 50,000 American Soldiers (not counting Mercenaries) indefinitely.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. That is wrong all troops will be gone by 2011
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Define "all". nt
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. I'm mean all
everyone cobmat, non-combat as the plan currently stands will be gone by 2011
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. lmmfao! nt
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. What an intelligent reply
So in reality you have no proof that there is no intention to honor the SOFA and remove all troops by 2011
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. ...
"Either way, no one expects the American presence to end soon, clearly not Defense Secretary Gates. When asked by Charlie Rose in a PBS interview last week how big the American “residual” force would be in Iraq after 2011, Mr. Gates replied that although the mission would change, “my guess is that you’re looking at perhaps several tens of thousands of American troops.”"

As they say, read the whole thing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/22/washington/22combat.html?_r=2&hp
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #46
73. Do you honestly believe that?
And if we alternatively just launched quick offensives from Kuwait, as well as bomb with drones, will that satisfy you?

Look, between the massive embassy, endless contracts we can procure, and oil resource, the US has a whole lot of interests in the country. If we pull out without controlling the resources, there will be no substantial return on investment for the military incursion. Thats lunacy to think that would happen.

Do you know how long the Vietnam war was going on before the shit broke out? Its entirely plausible Obama will leave just enough there so we can get sucked back in at some later time. Maybe they will all "ask" us. As of now, he is following a timeline set before he was president even, that can change at any time if the "conditions on the ground" change.

It is so naive to think the US will forfeit their ability to realize he profits from the Iraq conflict out of altruism, or some other lofty notion.
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
51. I know many of our troops from Ft. WW here in Fairbanks
will be returning by September.

Of course, so many of them were stop-loss (Strykers) that they won't assimilate easily. Many are fathers/mothers whose dependents live in my neighborhood.

BRING. THEM. ALL. HOME.

We will NEVER stabilize the middle East militarily. Never.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
68. what ARE you smoking?
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. FAIL.
He has said that "ALL troops" will be out by the end of 2011.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Bookmark my post.
We will see if "ALL Us Troops are out of Iraq by the end of 2011."
It is beyond ridiculous to believe this.

You DO know the US has the Largest Imperial Palace in The World in Baghdad.
Do you really believe there will be NO Us Military Troops stationed in Baghdad after 2011?

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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
67. Any statement from this administration that includes the words "all", "only", "every", and "always"
needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Or a pound of salt.
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Diamonique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. I'm with Helen on this.
I've felt for a long time that we should just get the hell out of Iraq.

Aside from the fact that we should never have invaded that country in the first place, the fact is there is nothing good we can accomplish there now. The longer we stay, the more Americans will die... period.

I'm not as certain about Afghanistan yet. I'm willing to wait and see. But I think Obama should have pulled us out of Iraq completely and immediately.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. He's already walked into some doors.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. .
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solstice Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
14. And in some cases, blazing new trails of secrecy that would make Bush green with envy.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. I suppose I am an isolationist - I don't think the USofA should be
the world police, I don't think we can correct all of the world's ills, nor should we be expected to do so. I think since we have nuclear weapons we have no right in telling others they cannot have them.

I agree with HT, Obama's policies in Iraq and Afghanistan are like Bush's. We don't need to be responsible for killing any more people and we don't need any more of our troops put in danger and killed. The wars must come to an end.

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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
41. Not aiming to offend, but
as long as we're using metaphors for the US role in the world, it's never been "the world police". It's been a Bad Lieutenant.

A husband beats up his wife. The police arrive and drag him away to jail, period. That's being police. The police don't proceed to make themselves comfortable in the couple's home, they don't rape the wife and start teaching proper obedience to the kids.

A "world police" would have deposed Saddam about a month (okay, a year) after he started killing off the opposition. A "world police" would not have installed Resa Pahlavi as the shah of Iran. A "world police" would have brought Pinochet to some World Court in chains - not helped him along with the coup. A "world police" would have tracked Bin Laden, presented convincing evidence, and locked the guy for life. And so on.

So I don't think you're necessarily an isolationist, nor do I think isolationism is necessarily a good thing. A true "world cop" with enough respect *and* power could perhaps do a lot of good. (I am far from certain that's true, but at least would debate it.) The problem is though, the "cop" metaphor has never really applied, at least not if we think of cops as the good guys. (I must admit I don't, not anymore.)

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Oh, no offense taken - I agree with you - the rationale our leaders
and those who support our wars and aggressions is that we are the only one who can straighten out the problems of the world, we are the ones that know about the rule of law (ick, I almost choked on that one), we are the ones that appreciate freedom so we must force others to bend their wills to our own.

The world police is what the power that be want us to think of our role abroad.

Your summary is much more accurate.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. Whoops! I reposted this! Didn't see it on the GP! Waiting for Helen to under the bus!
Edited on Fri Jun-19-09 11:32 AM by saracat
Helen is smarter than ANY President we have had. Helen is always worth listening to and a has never , AFAIK, been wrong yet! I was never prouder of DUn than when we sent Helen roses!
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. There's no room for her under there.
It done filled up.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I am willing to make some space for her! LOL! The way some are reacting
one would think she called for Obama's removal from office. She just disagrees with him on this oned issue. But just like the Bush idolotors on the otherside of the aisle, some on the alleged left find no room for criticisim or alternative viewpoints.
Funny, Obama himself doesn't seem to be that rigid. Wonder where the thought patrol comes from?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. When Helen speaks.....
I listen.

K&R
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Much is being said by many.......none of which is conclusively correct.
Reporters and opinion makers are paid to make statements,
and so they shall opine...

Nothing wrong with that, but......
they are only speaking of their impression based on what they know as of this date,
and so I have no problem with what Helen and others believe right now,
as their thinking will change with the passage of time,
as I already understand that the same policies aren't being continued in either Iraq or Afghanistan,
no matter how it might look superficially, on its face.

I side with the more specific precise writing of this opinion than the generalities that Helen Thomas makes. Why? Because Helen Thomas, just like Barack Obama, is not an infallible person, and therefore facts and reasonability of the argument, rather than who is making it is what sways my opinion as to what's what:


ON IRAQ


I thought Obama's speech on Iraq this afternoon was outstanding.It laid out a powerful rationale for the new policy, sent a very clear signal to Iraqis about American intentions, placed American policy firmly within the context of the Status of Forces Agreement negotiated with the Iraqi government, and embedded the policy effectively into its wider regional context. I know that some on the left are worried about the 50,000 figure for the residual force and about the timeline, but I think those concerns are overblown.The plan Obama laid out today is entirely consistent with his campaign promises and -- more important -- is the right strategy for today's Iraq.

Here's what I liked:

The very clear signal. "The drawdown of our military should send a clear signal that Iraq’s future is now its own responsibility."Obama stressed repeatedly and clearly that he was bringing the war to an end -- "Let me say this as plainly as I can: by August 31, 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end" -- and that all troops would leave Iraq in accord with the SOFA by December 31, 2011. Everything I've written over the last year has emphasized the importance of the clarity of this signal. This is more important than the specifics of the pace or number of troop withdrawals -- which are better handled by the military commanders and diplomats on the ground -- because it gets to shaping the political calculations of Iraqis and Iraq's neighbors. Obama did this extremely well today, taking pains to reiterate and to flag his signaling so that it could not be misinterpreted.
Iraqi responsibility.

Obama also did an outstanding job of framing the U.S. drawdown in terms of a shift to Iraqi responsibility: "The drawdown of our military should send a clear signal that Iraq’s future is now its own responsibility. The long-term success of the Iraqi nation will depend upon decisions made by Iraq’s leaders and the fortitude of the Iraqi people." This emphasis throughout the speech on the agency of Iraqis deserves particular attention and praise. Gone is the assumption that what happens in Iraq is all about America, that only the force of American will and material commitment matters.The future of Iraq is for Iraqis to decide, not Americans.

Public diplomacy. Obama's decision to speak directly to the Iraqi people -- and not only to Iraqi leaders -- was brilliantly conceived and executed. His very clear statement that the U.S. had no aspirations on Iraqi territory or resources -- no permanent bases -- was pitch perfect. And I just really liked this frank, direct, respectful talk:

So to the Iraqi people, let me be clear about America’s intentions. The United States pursues no claim on your territory or your resources. We respect your sovereignty and the tremendous sacrifices you have made for your country. We seek a full transition to Iraqi responsibility for the security of your country. And going forward, we can build a lasting relationship founded upon mutual interests and mutual respect as Iraq takes its rightful place in the community of nations."

Realistic goals. Last September Brian Katulis and I argued that "the United States will have to distinguish between those outcomes that are truly catastrophic and those that are simply suboptimal." Obama did so clearly today: "What we will not do is let the pursuit of the perfect stand in the way of achievable goals." This, combined with the emphasis on Iraqi responsibility, demonstrates a very healthy realism about the enterprise which has too often been lacking from American rhetoric.

Respecting the SOFA. Obama referred repeatedly to the Status of Forces Agreement, which others have preferred to ignore or wish away.

Regional context. He correctly placed Iraq within its wider regional context: "America can no longer afford to see Iraq in isolation from other priorities".His commitment to direct engagement with all Iraq's neighbors -- including Syria and Iran, singled out -- and higher expectations for their positive contributions fits well within his strategic vision for the region. With the Arab states unifying their ranks ahead of next month's Doha Summit, and Kuwait's Foreign Minister paying a historic visit to Baghdad today, I expect significant movement here in the near term.
Refugees. I was heartened to hear Obama put such prominence on the issue of Iraq's displaced and refugees, and to define their plight as both a strategic interest and a moral responsibility for the United States.

No plan is perfect. I would like to have heard more about the pace of troop withdrawals, particularly in the early going. The role of the residual force could have been better explained. But I must say that I am far less concerned about the size of the residual forces than are others on the Left. Such a residual force was always a part of Obama's campaign platform, and -- more importantly -- is perfectly consistent with the Status of Forces Agreement, which does not require U.S. troops to leave until the end of 2011. Their mission will change, and they will play an important role in training and support for the Iraqi government and security forces. Nor am I at all bothered by the two month difference between the campaign promise and the timeline in the speech -- and can't imagine that anybody else is either.

Obama's speech today was all that I had hoped, especially after yesterday's conflicting reports. It very closely follows his campaign commitments.It maintains a clear timeline for withdrawal, and sends the clear, unambiguous signal that Iraqis and the region needed to hear while re-emphasizing America's commitment to engagement with the region. It puts Iraqis first and defines a normal, positive future relationship between governments and peoples. And it does this with a frank recognition of Iraq's continuing fragility and plethora of unresolved political fissures, and the tough road ahead. And most remarkable of all, he may even succeed in commanding a bipartisan and inter-agency consensus in support of this policy at home.

This speech is something for which I and many, many others have been waiting -- and working -- for a long, long time. There's much hard work to come, but the die is cast and the signal is clear.
http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/02/27/obama_gets_it_right_on_iraq



On Afghanistan, Obama certainly is not like Bush, and while saying it makes some pay attention, it is an incorrect statement as far as I'm concerned.

.... Obama's tone toward the rest of the world has been one of humility and engagement, such as when he told the Muslim world that America is not its enemy, and that the United States "is not at war with Islam."

Daniel Hamilton, director of the U.S. Center for Transatlantic Relations at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies, believes Obama’s pragmatic message has been well received abroad.

“His message has been the United States doesn’t always do everything right, there’s some reason for some of the critique," Hamilton says. "But on the other hand, you can’t blame the United States for all the world’s problems, or even a region’s problems, and let’s have a new basis for a relationship.”

Critics, however, have taken Obama to task, especially on his recent European tour, for what they describe as his apologizing for U.S. behavior over the past eight years. Former Vice President Dick Cheney went so far as to say he believes Obama's policies and actions have made the country less safe.
snip
On Afghanistan, Obama ordered a comprehensive review of U.S. and allied efforts in the region and concluded that more countries need to offer military and development assistance.

....He has also pressed European leaders to shoulder more of the responsibility for stabilizing the region, and has made a compelling case for why Afghanistan’s fate is tied to the fates of other countries.

Obama also made a dramatic adjustment to the U.S. strategy on Afghanistan by bringing Pakistan into the equation, and appointing a high-ranking U.S. diplomat, Richard Holbrooke, as U.S. envoy to the two countries.

Obama and his military advisers argue that without help from Pakistan, the problem of terrorist safe havens in Afghan border lands cannot be solved.
snip
“It’s been a frustrating period of time for him. A lot hasn’t happened yet. And many of the overtures were rebuffed immediately or used for domestic political purposes in the midst of the Iranian campaign," Hamilton says. "I think we’ll just have to acknowledge that, and see how the election campaign ends and what type of Iranian leadership we have to work with.”

On Iraq, Obama came into office on a promise to end U.S. combat activities in Iraq within 18 months. He has since moved that date back a few months -- to August 2010 -- and said he will keep as many as 50,000 troops in place to advise and train Iraqi forces through the end of 2011.

On the stalled Middle East peace process, Obama has appointed the experienced negotiator George Mitchell to be his envoy and sent Clinton to the region in a show of good faith. He has invited the Israeli, Palestinian, and Egyptian leaders to the White House this summer for peace talks, and reached out to longtime U.S. adversary Syria as a potential partner.
http://www.rferl.org/content/With_First_100_Days_Obama_Seeks_New_Basis_For_Relationships_Abroad/1618285.html


Obama's Great Afghanistan Gamble
What's the endgame of the surge-and-negotiate strategy? Already there is plenty of negotiating behind the scenes. Karzai has an ongoing dialogue with the Taliban, with former Taliban allies in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan mediating, and there are reports of talks involving Hekmatyar, too. But Obama's advisers are split on whether those top-down negotiations will work: Some suspect that there can be no deal as long as the Taliban think they're winning.

An alternative approach gaining favor inside the beltway is bottom-up negotiations to mirror the Taliban's village-by-village strategy. "This is a country that historically has had very little central government," General David McKiernan, the US commander, said last November. "But it's a government with a history of local autonomy and local tribal authority systems." Jones, of Rand, says the key is winning the loyalty of rural Afghans. If it's done right—if America maintains a light footprint, if tribal leaders see improvements in security (as well as cold, hard cash), and if Afghanistan's meddling neighbors can be persuaded to help stabilize the country—then the loyalties of the Pashtun tribes may turn. If that happens, Jones says hopefully, "They can tip pretty quickly." Of course, if the surge causes more civilian deaths and further inflames anger at the United States, they could just as easily tip the other way. Therein lies the great risk of Obama's gamble.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/05/obamas-great-afghanistan-gamble



Obama breaks with Bush Afghan policy
The tone differed significantly when discussing the threat from militants and the rationale behind continuing America's involvement in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

There was no "you're either with us or against us", no cowboy-like "we'll smoke them out of their holes", just a simple, stern message to al-Qaeda that "we will defeat you".

He signalled that Washington was in it together with Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that the extremists the US was fighting were as much a threat to America as they were to Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The hope is that by framing it in those terms, Washington will be appealing to the governments of the two countries and to ordinary people to stay on board in the fight against militancy. It could resonate beyond the region as well to Muslims elsewhere in the world,

Under the Bush administration, the fight against al-Qaeda and the stabilisation of Afghanistan after the fall of the Taleban was neglected as Washington focused on the war in Iraq.

Mr Obama said Afghanistan had been denied the resources it needed for the last three years as he promised to commit more in terms of development projects and training for Afghan forces.

By approaching Afganistan and Pakistan with one strategy, while recognising that they are two different countries, the Obama administration also acknowledges that any success in Afghanistan would be undermined if violence spiralled in Pakistan and vice versa.

The Bush administration's approach to the two countries had been described as unco-ordinated, and sometimes even at odds.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7969071.stm





So for me the verdict is not in yet as to the effectiveness of what Obama has done to date, but I can safely say that I don't believe that President Obama is doing anything much like President Bush did, which is why I cannot agree with Helen's contention.

So thanks for providing us with a vague rendition of what Ms. Helen Thomas thinks, but unfortunately for you and her, there isn't enough meat on those bones she is providing for me to go with what she thinks as of this date just because she is Helen Thomas. I'm more independent in my thinking than that!




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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Most know what helen meant by what she said and she doen't indicate Obama's "motives" are the same
as Bush's.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I also don't believe that he is using the same methods......
so what is there left to make them similar on Iraq and/or Afghanistan?
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
29.  More investment of men and money?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. That is a generality.
That's like saying they both breathe, i.e., not saying much at all.

There are still wars going on and so until they are totally ended, men and money will be basic elements of that. period.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. That is true.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
59. ah, yes. much more acceptable to blow children to bloody bits while being humble
i'm sure the bereaved are greatly comforted.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
39. all these bs wars and we're in debt beyond belief ,all these politicians in DC are sorry as hell
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. I love Helen, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with her on everything.
I happen to disagree with her on this point. No, Obama is not withdrawing from Iraq as quickly as I would like, but it's a big difference from Bush.
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #40
63. I love Barrack, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with him on everything
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #63
71. I can certainly agree with that, too.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
65. but which military leaders are still in power?
What I'm seeing are the same old officers that were in place with *. You may remember that Rummy and * got rid of certain military leaders that wouldn't "play" their game. So now we got the * likker officers still in place. So what's changed? Is Mr. Oilman Kharzai still in place in Afghanistan? Are private oil corporations still attempting to grab Iraqi oil? Well, I'll still give O time--but didn't he just appoint a questionable general in Afghanistan? His choices so far look more and more like * choices.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-19-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
52. ...and Bill Maher thinks Obama should be more like Bush...
Edited on Fri Jun-19-09 09:48 PM by zulchzulu
...so, as they say, an opinion is like an asshole. Everybody has one.

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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. The opinion that Helen can be compared to some California libertarian pothead, for instance.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
58. You post "subject" gives away your anti-Obama stance. Thomas isn't saying that O is Bush incarnate.
She made a narrow point that on one issue, she thinks O agrees with Bush.

She is wrong, of course. But my point is that, you worded your subject to give the wrong impression.

Why are you posting in DU if you're against the POTUS, a Democrat?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Because we get to post here both when and when we do not agree with our representatives.
Edited on Sat Jun-20-09 08:21 AM by Political Heretic
Some would call that being a good Democrat. I call it being an informed responsible American.

These people work for us, not the other way around.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #61
74. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. and why shouldn't we question?
My daughter is in the military, her hubby is in Iraq. When the initial assault on Afghanistan was made, he was there. He's saying he may be in Afghanistan after Iraq. They have the cutest set of twins, who have to re familiarize themselves to daddy when he gets home, since there toddlers. Our family has a very vested interest what happens in the ME!!!!
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. you are correct, newspeak
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-20-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
62. Thank you, Helen, for telling the truth even when it's unpopular.
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
70. let's kill the bitch...
draw and quarter this vile whore of babylon. how dare she draw similarities between President Obama and George Bush.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
72. Obama = Bush = Hyperbole and loses credibility right off he bat
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
75. So it's not just the "loony left extremists" who are saying these things?
Good to know.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
76. For those who have forgotten, could Helen possibly be a PUMA?

Helen Thomas Supports Hillary


Posted Mar 31st 2008 12:29PM by Ada Calhoun
Filed under: Media, Hillary Clinton, Feminism

On Friday night, Helen Thomas gave a rousing keynote speech for the Women, Action and the Media conference at MIT. We were too far in the back to get good video or photos (we'll post those when we find some), but here are a few things she said that we jotted down:

On media bias:
"Hillary is getting a bad rap with the media. Obama is walking on water with the media . . . Being racist is more verboten than being anti-woman."

On Hillary's campaign:
When an audience member asked, "Is there merit in supporting a woman presidential candidate because she's a woman?" Thomas says: "Yes. I honestly think that our time has come, and I think our time should have come long ago . . . Hillary has worked hard. She has tried hard . . . She can't open her mouth - and neither can her husband - without being denounced."

On calls for Hillary to drop out:
"If I were Hillary, I'd stay in the race. I can't help but admire her grit. Maybe it's all over, and that's what they're trying to tell her, but I wouldn't listen."

http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/03/31/helen-thomas-supports-hillary/

FWIW, I'd take anything Helen has to say about the president, with a huge grain of salt. I have yet to see an article where she denounces Hillary for threatening to "obliterate Iran". She's a good journalist, but she feels that Hillary got screwed out of her rightful ascendency.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. No, she can't.
Edited on Sun Jun-21-09 02:56 PM by Milo_Bloom
Since Helen is a journalist and not a party insider or working for the party, she cannot be a PUMA.

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sisters6 Donating Member (351 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-21-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. gee, 2008--aren't you living in the past?
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