Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Even Franken couldn't have written an ending this funny. Justices grill Coleman attorney.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 03:38 PM
Original message
Even Franken couldn't have written an ending this funny. Justices grill Coleman attorney.
Edited on Mon Jun-01-09 04:00 PM by grantcart
Leave it to Al to be the straight man for one of the funniest Court Hearings on an election case.


You can almost hear the Justices minds saying "Evidence? You call this Evidence?".




http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/minnesota-supremes-grill-coleman-lawyer-on-lack-of-evidence.php


You know people are having fun when they have to use Bush vs. Gore and they realize that doing so makes them look stupid:


Towards the end of his initial argument period, Friedberg referred back to Bush v. Gore -- which he unbelievably prefaced by saying, "And I hesitate to use this case for anything," despite the fact that his side has used that case for just about everything. Friedberg said that in Bush v. Gore, it was enough to show arbitrary treatment of ballots between Broward County and Palm Beach County.


(You can almost hear Gene Wilder's charachter in Blazing Saddles "you must, you must")

But the real fun in Coleman's last gasp at playing a Senator came not from Coleman's hired gun but from the Justices who couldn't believe what they were hearing:


At one point, Justice Christopher Dietzen went over Team Coleman's written offers of proof -- filings of proposed evidence that an attorney makes when a trial court won't admit it as official evidence, but he wants to preserve it for future appeals. "I've never seen an offer of proof like this," said Dietzen, complaining that the offers didn't actually identify specific potential witnesses or what their presumed evidence would have been been -- only continued arguments that "a substantial number" of ballots exist. Dietzen added that "the rules of evidence, the rules of civil procedure apply. Now why is this offer of proof not inadequate, in that we don't have admissible evidence that can show whether you've met your burden?"



Now here is the funny part - Dietzen is a die hard Republican who contributed to Coleman's campaign, lol and he can't believe the crap they came up with.

But Dietzen didn't have all the fun. Justices Anderson, Gildea and Meyer also couldn't believe in the lack of evidence that they were offering as a proof to their claims;



Justice Paul Anderson, who was appointed to the court in 1994 by then-Republican Gov. Arne Carlson , also said he was "very bothered" by the offer of proof. "It says you will obtain sufficient evidence," Anderson complained, then characterizing it as "basically just lists, lists of names" on ballots, but no details about the underlying stories of those ballots.

Justice Lorie Skjerven Gildea, a Pawlenty appointee widely viewed as a conservative, also asked Friedberg about the lack of evidence, to which Friedberg replied that the court dismissed the Coleman camp's central claim as irrelevant -- that counties across the state applied different standards in admitting or rejecting absentee ballots. "They clearly excluded evidence," said Friedberg, which is the evidence they truly needed to prove their case.

Justice Helen Meyer, an appointee of the Independence Party's Gov. Jesse Ventura , who had previously donated to the late Democratic Sen. Paul Wellstone and is viewed as a moderate on the bench, asked Friedberg why he did not compile evidence from all counties, as opposed to about two dozen, to prove their case about unequal treatment . "You're asking us to presume that, based on the evidence of a sampling of counties," said Meyer.



I guess the Democrats on the Court were too convulsed with laughter to ask any questions.

Friedberg always the trooper ended playing it straight, you can almost hear the giggles:


"We've made our case," he said forcefully. "You can't make it any better than that!"


Justice Anderson didn't seem to appreciate the humor involved:


Justice Anderson shot back. "I still have problems with your saying we're a substantial compliance state," Anderson said. "And as loud as you speak on this issue there's language I don't think you can overcome."



I wonder if when they deliver their opinion the Justices will also have a laugh track.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jeez, I am surprised they couldn't refrain from the use of "cough"(bullshit)"cough"....
...because that's what their pathetic arguments deserve!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wouldn't call any of that ridiculing, but they certainly shot him down.
Ridiculing would be like "I've seen better evidence left on my lawn in the morning" or "If this is the best you have, you might want to think about getting a bigger engine for that Vespa, because this won't even climb that curb at the bottom of the driveway" or "Did you go to law school at Liberty Bible College?"

Still, it's quite funny that they hammered the hell out of him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Of course your technically right but given the decorum and restraint
that judges conform to, it was pretty strong language.


Hyperbole? In GD :P I DON'T THINK SO!! Lol.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. on second thought 'grilling' seems to be more accurate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. So can Franken be seated now? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
Edited on Mon Jun-01-09 03:49 PM by mvd
Franken needs to be seated right after the ruling (which I'm sure will go in his favor.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Gee, I wonder what the outcome is going to be.
:rofl:


Hell, I say we keep counting. Everytime, Senator Franken gets more and more votes! :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. I watched the hearing streamed live. I was amazed at the diff. between
the two attorneys. Coleman's lawyer was all conjecture and assumption while Frankin's consistently sighted prior case law.

I didn't have the chance to see the original trial or the appelate case. Were they all this odd? I'm not an attorney but I have been expose3d in quite a few cases during my career. These two attorneys are supposed to be among the best there is, and I was sure not impressed with Coleman's guy!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. And, the best part is that
they're all conservatives except for Justice Helen Meyer!

This "exchange" is really exciting news! Thanks, grant.

I can't wait:bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. sorry but I can't laugh. They made a mockery of the electoral process and should have to pay. nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. I get the impression they were hoping that the R appointed Justices
Edited on Mon Jun-01-09 04:10 PM by rasputin1952
would go along w/anything they "produced" as "evidence". Looks like that ploy, (if that's what it was), didn't work.

Here's hoping that Coleman will eventually be held accountable for what the Franken team had to put out monetarily. It would be very telling if Coleman/RNC had to pay for the whole affair...:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Precisely! Seems like these
conservative judges weren't buyin' what coleman's lawyer was sellin'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. What they had to sell was hot air...
not a huge market for that these days...:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yeah, these days..
The last 8 years it would have been selling like hot cakes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. If the real goal is to delay Al Franken as long as possible, Coleman is clearly winning that battle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
37. Coleman is doing exactly what Rove told him to do ~
String it out by any means necessary
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
13. where can I get the video? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. They need to issue an ruling tomorrow since it's painfully obvious that Coleman is a turd.
And force Coleman to pay over $50M to Al Franken for the legal shenanigans that the Coleman camp pulled.

And order Pawlenty to sign the certified copy or ELSE (sanctions/impeachment/violation of ethics)

Hawkeye-X
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Dang should have sent them a case.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Third Doctor Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. coleman
Will probably go to the SCOTUS next. (sighs)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Extremely doubtful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. Dinosaur is my favorite BBQ! I got to the one in Harlem, NY on
some weekends for lunch - it totally packs out. Great wings and great "Drunken Shrimp"...and love the ribs!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R. I'm so close to having a second Senator.
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. We really all need
to have the biggest cyber celebration when ya do:bounce::fistbump::toast::party:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabbycat31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. so when will this all be over?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I expect a ruling in two weeks but could be a little bit longer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smoochpooch Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
24. Jesus, what has Coleman been doing since November? The guy's had 7 months to collect evidence and
he doesn't present any to the highest court in the state....hmmm, doesn't sound like he ever had a case to begin with. He just went in and said "Unequal treatment" and that's it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. Terrific post and thread. I especially love the line,
Edited on Mon Jun-01-09 10:56 PM by saltpoint
"I guess the Democrats on the Court were too convulsed with laughter to ask any questions."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
28. This would have been funnier back in February.
It's now June.

The election was over 6 months ago and they're still trying to establish who won. That's more pathetic than it is funny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. well its more like 'gallows' humor
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
30. But the GOP is laughing because Franken STILL CAN'T VOTE!! They can still filibuster!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yes. Sandbagging the Democrats is cheap at whatever this is costing them.
Putting an asterisk next to Franken's name for the foreseeable future? Priceless.

Coleman may even decide to run agin him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
32. are most Minnesotans getting angry about this? Is coleman's popularity tanking?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Polling seems to have settled at about 2/3 Franken, 1/3 Coleman. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
35. Gotta love the "clap louder!!!" approach to litigation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
36. Coleman's group are acting like the fix is already in place, and I agree. They would not
have spent the money and time without a guarantee of getting this seat or a new election.

In the land of low risk and no scoreboards the court will give him a do over election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Or they could simply have deduced that they could raise even more money
by fleecing their flocks on a completely false set of issues, kind of like they are doing with Sotomayor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mister Ed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. The court can not give Coleman a do-over election, or declare him the winner.
Minnesota law makes no provision for a do-over election.

The legal question before the state Supreme Court is whether to uphold the lower court's ruling that Franken won by 312 votes, or accept Coleman's assertion that additional votes should be counted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-02-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC