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Ignatius on the Barack-Bibi meeting - Obama isn't following the old rules & is outmaneuvered Bibi

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:03 PM
Original message
Ignatius on the Barack-Bibi meeting - Obama isn't following the old rules & is outmaneuvered Bibi
Edited on Tue May-19-09 11:36 PM by Pirate Smile
Upping the Ante on Israel

By David Ignatius
Wednesday, May 20, 2009

Binyamin Netanyahu's friends liken him to a good poker player. They explain, for example, that before the Israeli prime minister plays the card marked "Palestinian state," he wants an American commitment that this state will be demilitarized.
But the Israeli leader faced an unusual test in his meeting this week with Barack Obama. The new president is not the poker-player sort of politician: When he decides to do something, he goes straight at it, laying his cards on the table face-up. That direct style is becoming an Obama signature, and it has subtly changed the dynamics of the U.S. dialogue with Israel.

The relationship has traditionally been an intricate political dance, with American presidents weighing how far they can go without offending Israel's supporters in Congress. But that sort of gamesmanship was absent this time: Obama said he wants negotiations for a Palestinian state, soon, and he challenged the Israeli prime minister to get on board.
Obama squeezed Netanyahu, ever so gently, in his public comments after their Oval Office meeting.
"I have great confidence in Prime Minister Netanyahu's political skills, but also his historical vision. . . . And I have great confidence that he's going to rise to the occasion," Obama said.

Obama similarly outmaneuvered Netanyahu in the run-up to the White House meeting. The Israeli leader sought to link progress on the Palestinian issue with a tough U.S. stand against Iran. But from his first day in office, Obama began staking out strong U.S. positions -- for a Palestinian state and for engagement with Iran. By this week, Netanyahu found himself acceding to Obama's plans for exploratory talks with Iran through year-end, even though many Israelis fear this timetable could be dangerous.

-snip-
Netanyahu knew Obama was a rare politician when they first met in March 2007. Back then, nobody was giving the Illinois senator much of a chance, but the Likud leader told his aides: "I think this is the next president of the United States." Now Netanyahu faces the full force of the Obama political phenomenon -- a president who feels politically secure enough to ignore the usual rules of the U.S.-Israel relationship and push hard for what he thinks is right.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/19/AR2009051902669.html?hpid=opinionsbox1


edit to add the Wash Post Op-ed on it:

Opening Bids
President Obama and Israel's new prime minister take each other's measure.


Wednesday, May 20, 2009

IT WAS not hard to discern the incipient cracks in U.S.-Israeli relations behind the show of friendliness between President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu at the White House on Monday. Mr. Obama spoke about the need for "serious movement" toward a "two-state solution" ; Mr. Netanyahu pointedly avoided any mention of statehood for Palestinians. The Israeli leader harped on the urgency of preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and the need to leave "all options on the table"; Mr. Obama said that until the end of this year, options other than negotiations would not be on the table. Mr. Obama stressed that Israeli settlements in the West Bank "have to be stopped in order for us to move forward"; Mr. Netanyahu, who is committed to the "natural growth" of settlements, said any action would have to be linked to reciprocal steps by the Palestinians.

The cracks need not widen into a split. But if their public statements were any indication, Mr. Obama and Mr. Netanyahu gave little ground in the hour and 45 minutes they spent together one-on-one. Afterward, Mr. Obama was particularly striking in saying that "the United States is going to roll up our sleeves" and be "a strong partner" in seeking the Palestinian state that Mr. Netanyahu resists. If that's true, the president's frankness was a necessary first step. Neither Mr. Netanyahu's government nor Palestinian and Arab leaders are likely to make the concessions needed for peace without concerted and visible pushing from the White House.

The administration's strategy seems to center on broadening Israeli-Palestinian talks to include Arab states and outside powers such as the European Union and Russia. All would have in common the interest of thwarting Iran's outsized regional ambitions.
Mr. Obama's envoy, former senator George J. Mitchell, has been seeking to broker initial confidence-building measures that might include Arab grants of overflight rights or trade privileges to Israel in exchange for a settlement freeze. Mr. Netanyahu is intrigued by the potential of a de facto Israel-Arab alliance on Iran; he and Mr. Obama agreed to set up working groups to consider what can be done. But the Israeli leader will be inclined to indefinitely delay any significant Israeli moves; were he to commit himself to a Palestinian state or a settlement freeze, his governing coalition might well collapse.

It may be that a mere show of U.S. sleeve-rolling on the peace process, along with pro forma Israeli cooperation, will provide adequate cover for Arab states that are eager to join in an anti-Iranian alliance. That is what Mr. Netanyahu is calculating. If Mr. Obama genuinely intends to press for an early Israeli-Palestinian settlement, he will have to push U.S.-Israeli relations into a red zone of tension for the first time in many years. He would do well to make clear to Israeli voters that any government that will not explicitly embrace Palestinian statehood or an end to settlements will not have smooth relations with Washington. Even if that does not lead to a Middle East peace, it could help lay the groundwork for one in the future.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/19/AR2009051902749.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. so why does obama not "push hard for what he thinks is right" on DADT? nt
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. But maybe you don't know what he thinks is right....
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I don't know but I hope it is still possible to discuss other issues which are also important such
as the topic of the OP.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Perhaps he is working on it behind the scenes....
Just like we still don't have ME peace, but doesn't mean it ain't working on that, right? :shrug:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. threadjack much?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. As in
Always.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. LoL!
:spray:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. it would be funny if they did that in the evironmental forum.
busting in with complaints on how gardening tips aren't going to help repeal DADT...
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. I wish Obama would eat his Wheaties and outmaneuver the corporate honchos and Max Baucas
and help get us some single payer health insurance.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Perhaps he is working on that as well......
Just because some have a time table that says times up,
doesn't meant that OBama is setting his watch to it.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. When all the decision makers are not at the table it is difficult to have
hope that Obama will lead the way on single payer. I believe that it is particularly true by the way the White House Consortium on Health Insurance was handled, and then the related Senate hearings - all of which single payer's participation was banned or side-lined.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. He never said he would lead the way to single payer....
So I'm not holding my breath on that.
Certainly, I think it's good that it is part of the conversation,
to push things to the Left more.....
but in the end, you aren't gonna get single payer,
and you really already know that....
cause we didn't elect President Kucinich,
no matter how much you would rather that you had.

Also, we are talking about Middle East Peace,
but I guess nothing matters if you don't get
what you were never promised.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Oh that's right. Obama campaigned for single payer, before he campaigned against it.
Just remember frenchie, you'll never get a black president either.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean....I'll never get a Black President either?
Edited on Wed May-20-09 03:06 AM by FrenchieCat
Why don't you clarify that statement...so I can respond.

Far as Single Payer, he didn't campaign on it,
anymore than Kucinich campaigned against a Woman's right to choose! :eyes:

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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. That is as obvious as can be... If you can not figure it out I can't help you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

What Obama said is that "but we first have to take back the White House, and take back the Senate, and then take back the House."

All those things have been accomplished. NOW is the time for single payer health insurance.

NOW is the time.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. He did not campaign on single payer
I support single payer myself, but stop twisting his position. He said IF the health care system were being started from scratch, he would support single payer. Kucinich campaigned on single payer, not Obama.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. Obama is campaigning in this video for single payer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE


Good news. The health care system does not need to be rebuilt from scratch. That is total b.s. We already have a model in Medicare that can be adopted for single payer.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. You.are.lying.
He mentions it, but he is not campaigning on it.
but you know that.

How about that answer on this "You'll never have a Black President either" post that you made?

I asked what did you mean by that, and you have yet to answer.
I'm waiting!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Looks like the poster
chickened out on that one..I'm waiting too.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. He mentions it?
Edited on Wed May-20-09 02:42 PM by avaistheone1
The what is he doing when Obama is saying he is a proponent of single payer and rattling on about about the importance of single payer,and the strategy to get single payer to the AFL-CIO then?
Is this just a hobby Obama has?

Frenchie, of all the obvious statments I have made I think that is the most obvious. I found it interesting when I have asked you do respond to questions you say if I don't know you can't help me. Now the shoe is on the other foot. I am surprised that you really don't get it. What the hell do you think I am saying?

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Answer the question - What does this mean?
"you'll never get a black president either"
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. That video is from 2003
I think it's more ambiguous than you think it is. But he never promised single payer in his presidential campaign, not once.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. This subthread is confirming an earlier statement of mine...
I don't envy Obama. He has nearly thirty years of shit to shovel, with nothing more at hand than a trowel and a wheelbarrow.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Everyone has expectations about so much based on nothing
that Obama has actually said, until it is quite frightening.

Kind of like a lot of folks with their pent up wish list
focusing on Obama to be their sugar daddy....
to give them what they want, as though nothing else matters.

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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. One idiot on another blog actually said
that if Obama doesn't do right by African Americans, that we've (meaning AAs) lost all hope. I wanted to say to her, "well then you'd might as well get the noose ready now"

Some people criticize those who believe in an invisible Savior, but then turn around and treat Obama like a visible savior. :eyes:
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. The audacity of hope.
What ever happened to that?

I would not say these hopes rest on nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. funny me, i thought this was a thread about obama meeting with netanyahu...
Edited on Wed May-20-09 01:13 PM by dionysus
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Interesting read. Thanks for the article! n/t
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. Credit Netanyahu for knowing talent when he sees it
Even if he privately wishes he was dealing with a lesser President.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. Netanyahu soooo wanted Obama to get tough with Iran
but he didn't get his way that's why he was pouting when they both walked out for the press conference lol
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Years and years we've waited...finally something getting done.
Carter tried, but his work was snuffed out by Reagan. At least this will lead to something.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
16. Why is the media set on framing this as Obama getting tough with them?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Because they frame everything as conflict when it actually just appears that he is very direct
and isn't "playing the games" or "doing the dance". He just says it straight up.

Perhaps compared to Bush's coddling, Obama's directness looks tough.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I think you are right.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks for posting this. Fascinating! K&R
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. kick
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
:kick:
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