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The Obama-loves-late-term-abortion myth. I have a coworker

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amitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:25 PM
Original message
The Obama-loves-late-term-abortion myth. I have a coworker
who is very pro-life and is STILL bitching about Obama promoting late-term abortion with legislation in Illinois.

Wasn't this already debunked/explained away? I don't remember the details...
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asphalt.jungle Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. yes, in the debate where Mccain used air quotes for women's health
that's about the best direction i can point you towards.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. The whole late term abortion is a myth.
it doesn't happen, ecept when the life of the mother is in danger.

Doctors don't abort 3rd term fetuses.

Most won;t about 2nd term without very good cause.

It's just another ploy to gain the religious right more control of women's bodies.
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amitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes, but why did Obama get accused of somehow trying to
"legalize" late-term abortion in Illinois?
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Because the RW makes shit up regularly?
It's like asking why he is accused of not being a citizen.
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amitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I know, but I'm wondering how this story was proven incorrect.
I'd like to be able to tell this person that they are suffering from bad information.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Crackpots propose abortion regulation all the time...
So, probably someone was proposing a bill that would outlaw late term abortions AND something else sneaky. But there's already a law on the books against late term abortions that's perfectly fine. So Obama (and dems in general) vote against the sneaky part of the new bill stating that the established law is sufficient.

HOWEVER, that vote against the sneaky unnecessary bill is twisted into a vote AGAINST outlawing late term abortions, which is easily turned into Obama SUPPORTING late term abortions. Then the Freeps start talking about Obama wanting to bus pregnant women to abortion mills against their will for mandatory procedures.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Maybe this will help answer your question.
Did obama vote to legalize late term abortions in illinois and if the baby lived through the abortion then obama said the baby should be killed?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_obama_vote_to_legalize_la...

As usual, the right has twisted words to make something appear to be something it is not.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Here's the deal...
Edited on Fri Mar-27-09 06:58 PM by jberryhill
It's a game that's played by the right.

I introduce a "Puppies Rights" bill that will:

1. Outlaw kicking puppies; and
2. allow licensed dogs without rabies vaccine.

Now, if you oppose the bill, I will spend millions of dollars to say you voted down the bill to outlaw kicking puppies, because you are a puppy kicker - even if your point was that dogs should be vaccinated for rabies.

Okay, so there were two "abortion" bills that Obama opposed.

One was - outlaw all late term abortions with no exception for the life or health of the woman. That's unconstitutional and Obama knows better than to vote for that.

Two was - prevent infanticide of survivors of late term abortions. That's actually already illegal in Illinois, but THIS bill was premised on independent rights of all unborn, apart from Roe-Casey-etc. framework that's been hammered out over the decades since 1973.

Both bills were stalking horses for unconstitutional provisions, and the second one in particular didn't change anything in Illinois as a practical matter and that's all there is to it.

Where this "battle" is being fought is at an extreme low-incidence edge of emergency obstetrical decisionmaking that is tragic and difficult for all concerned. These are the childbirth situations where the immediate and imminent medical fact is "someone is going to die in this room right now, and possibly two". It is outrageous that there are those who are trying to jump into that kind of scene with a bar-joke array of priests, congressman, lawyers, judges, lobbyists, and torch-bearing mob.

Nobody carries to full term and says on some kind of whim, "Oh, I think I'll get an abortion today." Ask your friend who does that, since it is the beginning of understanding what's really going on here.

Is your co-worker male or female? Married or unmarried?

If a married male, you ask him "When your wife is one minute away from death from a situation gone wrong in the delivery room, and it's going to be her life or the child, and you are going to watch someone die right then and there, who is entitled to make that decision?"

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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That myth keeps getting spoon fed to us. My English Professor took time out to go on a rant
about Abortion. Then he had us come up with a Platonian definition of "abortion". Mine was the *only* one that didn't say "It's murder!!!". Nobody would even look at me after.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Damn that liberal academia!
How dare they fill your head with...oh wait.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Dr. Tiller in Kansas performs third trimester abortions -- and for good reasons.
For example, where anti-choice people have aimed legal challenges at women wishing abortions and drug them out in the courts until said women have gotten court clearance for the abortion only in the 3rd trimester.
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amitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Well, 2nd term is actually apparently not a problem.
Edited on Fri Mar-27-09 12:42 PM by amitten
I had a friend in high school who had no problem getting an abortion in her late 5th month (pregnant with twins). Her boyfriend had bailed on her and she decided to abort rather than be a single parent.

She just made an appointment at a local clinic and had the abortion. That was about 20 years ago, in Kansas.

(I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but later-term abortions do happen, and to pretend they don't is to appear uninformed on the issue.)
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. i believe it is far more difficult now.
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amitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. No, not in Kansas. The laws haven't changed. If anything,
Kansas was far more conservative 20 years ago--it has gotten progressively more progressive!
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yes they have, they are much more restrictive. Requires a 2nd doctors "approval",
Edited on Fri Mar-27-09 01:30 PM by Justitia
along w/waiting periods and now later term abortions are only legal to save the life / health of the woman.

Women are required to receive both "written" and "verbal" anti-abortion "counseling".

Also, Kansas just passed a law (this month) requiring ultrasounds be performed on any woman undergoing the procedure.

96% of Kansas counties have NO ABORTION PROVIDER

Before you indicate others may "appear uninformed", you should really verify the latest enacted penalties against women's choice - there are new barriers enacted every single month.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. The VAST majority of abortions occur in the first trimester or first week of 2nd trimester.
The Alan Guttmacher Institute keeps these stats and you can look at their web site and get plenty of information. An abortion at 13 weeks would be a 2nd trimester abortion, but it is very different from say an abortion at 20 weeks. Be careful with your wording here...
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. The right doesn't want an exception for the health of the mother. NT
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. You tell her we won, she lost and now she needs to sit down and shut up
because that's what the other side told us for 8 years.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. He's had several himself.
Rightwingnuts; dumbest MFers on the planet.
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