Dems introduce Employee Free Choice Act today--does it have a snowball's chance of passing?

[Unsane]

It will get through the House, but I feel like Reid will sit on it. If Senate Dems hold strong and Franken is seated, Reid would only need one republican on board. The problem is some Senate Dems, see Blanche Lincoln et al, seem waffly.

[Enrique]

1. by definition Reid isn't sitting on it

as you said, it was introduced today. Much earlier than I expected. Obama hinted that it wouldn't be introduced til next year.

[Unsane]

3. You think it has a shot?

Without getting cut up, watered down, and neutered?

[Enrique]

5. yes I think it has a shot

if Obama spends some political capital and we all call our senators.

[rwheeler31]

2. We may have to wait for Al.

[Double T]

4. Hope not. We've seen what greedy unions and their arrogance.........

can do to their own place of employment. Workers rights can be legislated without the installation of unions.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Unions Suck

less than any other alternative.

Particularly when there's an oversupply of labor, as there is now, only unions can maintain reasonable wages. When unions are healthy, the middle class flourishes. As unions are busted, the middle class is also busted.

[Double T]

10. unions will insure more outsourcing to foreign nations.

Guaranteed.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Not If We Enact Tariffs Against Micro-Wage Nations

As the Europeans have done. And, lo and behold, their middle class is doing far better than ours.

There is no way on God's green earth that any American labor, union or non-union, can compete with people making $2 a day. The Clintons and anyone else who spins the fantasy that we can compete against that without tariffs is, at best, insane.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. They also have higher unemployment rates than we do

But I agree that unions are important. The free market system sets wages based on the idea that labor is a commodity which is fine when you are just considering the welfare of a business but not the welfare of a society. Collective bargaining is a way that we can increase the welfare of society.

[MannyGoldstein]

37. They Measure Unemployment Differently Than We Do

If we measure the same way, our numbers are similar. Also, their unemployment is clustered at young workers - those who usually don't have dependents (yet).

[Juche]

16. Many jobs that will be unionized will be service jobs

How can you outsource service jobs? Walmart and Burger King need workers here in the US. Service is not manufacturing.

Not only that, but outsourcing doesn't save as much money as many people think. Even when it works (and it often doesn't) you only save about 5-15% because labor is a small price of total expenses in running a business.

Combine that with a growing economy in China, devaluation of the dollar, increase in value of the yuan, high shipping and management costs when outsourcing and growing wages, quality control costs & environmental protections in china and we should still be cost competitive even with unions driving up wages & benefits by 20-30%.

I agree with you that labor laws can drive up business costs. But I disagree on the outcome. For one thing, that means more money for workers to buy things rather than seeing 90% of the economic growth go to the wealthy. With a strong union movement we can rebuild the middle class, and since 70% of our economy is consumerism that can't be ignored. Also alot of jobs that need unions are service jobs that cannot be outsourced. Nurses assistant, fast food worker, retail store worker, etc.

I also think that instead of worrying about jobs being shipped to China because we enact labor laws, we should pressure CHina to enact labor laws of their own. Make capitalism a non zero sum game. Rather than race to the bottom to see which country can offer the lowest wages and worst working conditions, fight to pressure China to allow more labor reform so they can drive their own wages up too. Then outsourcing is less cost effective.

[FreakinDJ]

17. Only if your a Banker

[Zynx]

22. So, you want a spiral of wage deflation?

[Double T]

24. Globalization wasn't my idea and I'm adamantly opposed to it.

Like it or not, wage deflation is here to stay.

[Zynx]

26. I suppose you think worker safety and environmental laws are detrimental

to economic development as well?

[Double T]

29. Worker Safety and Environmental Laws DO NOT require Unions.

Stepped up OSHA program with oversight and stricter EPA rules, regulations with oversight can handle the job.

[Zynx]

36. OSHA compliance still has the effect of raising labor costs above what they

are in the third world.

[AndyTiedye]

25. We Need to Export Unions Too Then

Let the unions become the INTERNATIONAL organizations they claim to be!
That is the only way to stop workers of one nation being played off against another.

[Zynx]

27. I have advocated this for a long time. We need to create an international

union system that coordinates between countries. Corporations have outfoxed unions on this front so far.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. The aggregate number of jobs in the US wasn't a serious problem until the financial crisis

There were plenty of jobs in the US, they were just not good paying jobs. Unions mean fewer jobs with higher wages. Fewer jobs with higher wages is good for society when you have people working 2 or 3 of those jobs to make ends meet.

Now granted with the financial crisis we have 7% unemployment and ideally that needs to come down and it will eventually. In the long run, though, we don't want to return to where we were just before the crisis.

[dcindian]

35. Bull shit

Every sector is hit every single one. This such utter bull shit.

[Better Believe It]

40. Why have non-union firms outsourced more than unionized firms?

You're spreading more nonsense!

[Enrique]

9. I haven't seen that

in my experience unions have been unqualifiedly a positive in the workplace.

[Double T]

12. Try working with union members in some workplaces; it's like working with a bunch.......

of spoiled rotten whiny kids.

[FreakinDJ]

15. Ya - they keep insisting on a Safe Work place

How dare they

[Enrique]

18. that doesn't match my experience at all

in my experience the unions don't change the workers at all, they change the management.

[snowbear]

30. I wouldn't trade my union for anything...

.
.

And I'm not a spoiled rotten anything!

So you're anti-union. That's YOU.

You don't have to broadbrush all unions and try to push your own negative opinion of them on the rest of us.

[FreakinDJ]

14. Yes - Horrible things like ....

Holidays
Safe Work Evironment
40 hour work week
Pension Plans
Healthcare benefits
Sick Leave
Over Time Pay

Its just scary to think what unions may do next

[Enrique]

20. you mean those things didn't come from the kindness in employers' hearts?

;-)

[FreakinDJ]

23. Nor from Anti-union RATpubliCON Propaganda

Some folks honestly believe working for the company store on starvation wages is a good thing.

[Mojambo]

6. My guess is that it'll be passed in name only.

Any provisions useful to actual working people will have to go.

And most Senate Democrats will have no problem going along.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I am manning my phones tomorrow

the leaders of labor today were quite clear

This doesn't pass... there goes labor

[Juche]

11. No

Without Franken seated that is only 58. I don't even know if Kennedy is back yet either, so it may only ben 57 dems in the senate.

Nope.

[harun]

38. We may be able to swing Specter here in PA, that might be enough.

[Juche]

39. That would still only be 58 w/o franken & kennedy

If we tried to get EFCA passed in may or june I think it could be done, but not now.

[Marsala]

19. Specter voted for it the last time around, didn't he?

That's at least 1 likely Republican vote. But it isn't enough.

[firedupdem]

21. Ben Nelson of Nebraska doesn't support it of course. I knew

he wouldn't. This red state hates unions. I cannot wait to get the hell out of here. :grr:

[Jennicut]

28. Ben Nelson is a waste at times.

[Hippo_Tron]

33. I have a suggestion for how to hold Blanche Lincoln

I think her hesitance is that Wal-Mart is such a large employer in the state. So put a provision in the bill that the government will give a tax break to Costco for opening up a location in every store where Wal-Mart shuts down. It gets Lincoln on board and then puts Wal-Mart in a worse bargaining position.

But in all seriousness it has very little chance of passing in original form. Thanks the US Senate for that.

[FLAprogressive]

34. nope -- thanks to the dim bulb Arkansas senators and the dimmer bulb Ben Nelson.