Frankly, I am offended that Gordon Brown would give President Obama such useless gifts.

[Frank Booth]

The pen holder and framed commission serve little purpose other than gathering dust. Granted, the seven volume biography of Churchill should provide some entertainment and edification (assuming President Obama has time to read them). But, in these troubled times, to give gifts that have basically no utility and only serve to remind us of the excesses of recent years (such as thousands spent on knick-knacks like trash cans and commodes) really shows a lack of understanding of the current economic situation.

Gordon Brown would have been better served by following Obama's lead and providing gifts that actually have a purpose -- like a gift of 25 DVDs, which can provide hours of top-notch entertainment.

[Captain Hilts]

1. The pen holder has historic significance and is made from something of limited supply.

It ties in with the link to FDR and the presidential desk.

It has meaning.

[Frank Booth]

4. But it's still a pen holder.

I'm sure the White House supply room already had plenty of perfectly adequate pen holders.

I've got a black plastic one on my desk from Staples that works like a charm.

[Occam Bandage]

6. The pen holder is priceless. Saying it's 'just a pen holder'

is like saying the copy of the Magna Carta in the national archives is "just an outdated law on a rotting piece of paper."

[Hanse]

12. Kind of like saying...

A set of 25 of the greatest films in history collected by the American Film Institute and specially designed for the White House is just a set of DVDs.

[Occam Bandage]

14. No, not really. Those DVDs could be bought by anyone at a Best Buy.

They would be a fine gift to a low-level dignitary from an unimportant country. Translated to the international level, it's very much the kind of gift you would give a cousin you don't know that well. Which is fine and all, but your fiancee might expect something a little more personal.

[Hanse]

15. Actually, no.

This volume was specifically crafted for the White House.

[Occam Bandage]

17. "Specially crafted?" No. The pen holder was specially crafted for the White House.

The DVDs were chosen by staffers, obviously as part of a standard package for visiting guests. They are a generic gift, the type that will be given to dozens if not hundred of interchangable guests, indicative of absolutely no thought whatsoever.

Anyone could purchase all twenty-five DVDs for an insignificant cost on their travel/entertainment budget simply by walking into a Best Buy. It's a tacky gift.

[Geek_Girl]

57. The American Film Institute put together the Gift

of some of the finest Films the US has ever produced. They were not chosen by staffers.

[KittyWampus]

53. LOL! It could have only been better if it'd been compiled by the Franklin Mint and came with

a Shamwow

[jberryhill]

58. Dude - ShamWow is made in Germany....

...and you know the Germans make good stuff.

A Snuggie would be better.

[Frank Booth]

13. That's going a bit far.

"Ship keepers at Chatham Historic Dockyard used an off-cut of timber salvaged from HMS Gannet during the Victorian Naval Sloop’s restoration work to make a unique pen holder." http://www.kentnews.co.uk/kent-news/PM-to-present-President-Obama-with-gift-from-Kent-newsinkent21716.aspx?news=local

Now that it's been presented to the President, it obviously has some value. Still, it's a pen holder.

[Occam Bandage]

19. No, it's not.

It's a one-of-a-kind artifact from a ship with a storied history both as an example of the "special relationship" between Britain and America (having once been named HMS President), and of the significance of having been an anti-slaving vessel. It is also something of a spiritual companion to the famed HMS Resolute desk. It's certainly not as valuable as the Magna Carta, but to deny that it has any value beyond its function as a pen holder is as absurd as declaring that any historical artifact (such as the Magna Carta) has no value beyond its literal function.

[Captain Hilts]

22. Sometimes, people here - who claim to love symbolism - go tone deaf on symbolism.

We need to value other culture's interpretations of symbolism.

And Britain is not just another foreign country.

[Hanse]

23. "one of a kind artifact"

You sound like one of those salesmen hawking the coins minted from gold salvaged from the WTC wreckage on the Home Shopping Network at about 2 in the morning.

[Occam Bandage]

29. It is. Only this one exists. It was created especially and specifically for this purpose,

from the timbers of a ship with a storied history both as an example of international friendship and as an example of the use of naval power for humanitarian reasons (reasons having to do with Mr. Obama's cultural heritage as an African-American, no less), crafted in the same dockyards as the famed HMS Resolute desk. It's fair to say "the symbolism does nothing for me," but it's ignorant to deny that it has any symbolic value for the givers, and it's ignorant to suggest that we should simply turn a cold shoulder to all symbolic overtures of friendship from close allies.

[Frank Booth]

37. But, is it also ignorant to assume that Obama

turned a cold shoulder to a symbolic overture of friendship? Is it wrong if some people value gifts they can actually use more than gifts that may have symbolic meaning, but really serve little functional purpose?

[Occam Bandage]

42. Obama probably didn't have anything to do with this either way.

He has staff to handle this; I think it was just an instance of staffers failing to understand the full implications of a particular aspect of their job. Obama's got more important shit to do than worry about gifts, but there are people in the White House whose job it is to cover all the diplomatic bases.

[Captain Hilts]

44. Protocol chief at State is supposed to be in charge of this. Not WH staffers. nt

[KittyWampus]

54. you sound like the boorish fiance who gives his love an omelet pan for Valentines Day

while he gets a hand engraved watch fob inscribed with a deeply meaninful sentiment and the Wedding Date.

[Captain Hilts]

9. And the presidential desk made from HMS RESOLUTE is just a desk?

http://www.mynorthwest.com/index.php?nid=228&sid=101556

The HMS Resolute was an abandoned ship that America returned to the Queen of England as a gesture of goodwill. Queen Victoria reclaimed the wood from the vessel and commissioned a desk, which her Royal Majesty presented to President Rutherford Hayes in 1880.

President Roosevelt was the first to modify the desk by raising the height with a 2 inch base to accommodate his wheelchair. The Resolute desk was retrofitted with a panel bearing the presidential seal. The panel served to cover the knee hole, concealing Roosevelt’s knee braces. Roosevelt did not live to see the desk completed.

[Clio the Leo]

2. We're reading this spin the wrong way.

In the UK, like he is everywhere, Barack is more popular than God. (Why else is Ms. Liz extending to him an invitation earlier than usual?) Mr Brown? Not so much. But spinning that the President gave the PM a "less than worthy" gift, it's a snub to Brown "because he's not worthy" of a GOOD gift.

[Posteritatis]

3. It's part of the US' secret plan to incapacitate the UK by keeping the PM glued to his TV! (nt)

[Hanse]

5. Brown gave Obama a biography on the guy who tortured Obama's grandfather.

How tacky is that?

[Frank Booth]

8. Thanks for pointing that out.

That actually might be a legitimate reason to be offended. And it's been reported in the UK press: "Churchill has less happy connotations for Mr. Obama than those American politicians who celebrate his wartime leadership. It was during Churchill's second premiership that Britain suppressed Kenya's Mau Mau rebellion. Among Kenyans allegedly tortured by the colonial regime included one Hussein Onyango Obama, the President's grandfather." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4623148/Barack-Obama-sends-bust-of-Winston-Churchill-on-its-way-back-to-Britain.html

It's always better to go with a safe, useful gift, such as a set of DVDs.

[Captain Hilts]

Brown is Scottish. His people have had their issues with the English. nt

[saltpoint]

7. Brown could have brought a hot dish.

Sometimes those British people are just clueless.

[Captain Hilts]

11. I thought this was funny, until I thought about BHO being presented with kidney pie. nt

[saltpoint]

16. Hi, Captain. What now? I don't know this story, I don't think.

[Captain Hilts]

20. Like you 'P'/'Pappa' pennant. nt

[saltpoint]

26. Now I'm lost altogether. Help me out here.

[Captain Hilts]

28. Your flag avatar. nt

[saltpoint]

31. The Blue Peter signals that all hands should be aboard ship, as

it is about to proceed outward from port.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3317926400/tt0072829

I'm not getting the kidney connection.

[Captain Hilts]

33. I don't 'get' your link. Brits eat kidney pie. We don't. The flag is also the letter 'P'.

Bringing a hot dish for a Brit might mean bringing kidney pie. Ugh!

[saltpoint]

35. O god, I was on another thread and used that link instead of this one:

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/for_fun/WhoBluePeter.pdf

--which I promise you is not "Crazy Mama."

Yes, it's 'P' when the spelling time is afoot but its nautical narrative meaning is All Aboard / We now proceed outward to sea.

[Captain Hilts]

36. BLAAAAAAAAAT, blat, blat, blat! nt

[saltpoint]

38. You seem to be in a cantankerous mood today, Captain.

[Captain Hilts]

40. Hey, I'm heading out! Smooth sailing and following seas!

[saltpoint]

41. Well have a good voyage and don't forget to write.

Also, please bring all DUers back a souvenir.

[uppityperson]

10. Thank you and I agree with your point.

What a silly thing to get offended over. You can't please all the people all the time.

[vaberella]

18. I said he could have bought a few things from the gift shop. That's a gift to US economy.

I would think that was more thoughtful.

[Occam Bandage]

21. I'm pretty sure he did. They presented the Brown children with toy models of Marine One,

plucked from the gift shop.

[Captain Hilts]

25. I'll be those helicopters are cool. I'd like one. nt

[Occam Bandage]

32. The British press complained about those too, but I think those are a fine gift,

and nobody would have thought anything of them had they not been used to fill extra lines in complaints about the reception.

[Bread and Circus]

24. Honestly, I think a World of Warcraft subscription is the most bang for the buck...

but he'd getting nothing done after he got sucked in to Azeroth.

Thank god I've kicked that habit (for now) :kick:

[iamthebandfanman]

30. you'll be back....

they ALWAYS come back...

personally, i think its the longing for murlocs.

[Bread and Circus]

46. I hope not as I'm actually going to the gym again. Sartharion 3D was fun though...

but I have a lot on my plate these days. WoW is just too time consuming.

I look forward to SC2 though.

[Captain Hilts]

34. Now THAT's funny! nt

[ZombieHorde]

27. The pen holder rocks, the DVDs are tacky, but they didn't have to be.

If I chose the 25 DVDs, they would have been an awesome gift, but still tacky. An awesome tacky gift.

[Captain Hilts]

39. There's a joke about a DVD of "Zulu" waiting to be made. nt

[orion007]

43. Ebay

It would be interesting to see what the gifts would bring, any guesses??

[saltpoint]

45. There's some tension or other in the air between thse two.

I have no specific clue what the problem is.

If Brown's gift is sincere, I think it's a great gift.

If Obama's gift is sincere, I think it's a great gift.

They can be different sorts of gifts and still be gifts worth giving.

[DFLforever]

47. I don't think Pres Obama is too keen on being used

to prop up Gordon Brown or the Labour Party.

[saltpoint]

49. It's possible that's it. This visit didn't have the real-friendly feel at all.

[ProSense]

48. I don't think Obama and Brown

really care who is offended. Almost certain of this

[Igel]

50. Obama doesn't keep the gifts.

They stay with the government, as is esp. appropriate in this case. The penholder goes well with the desk, a matched set from twin anti-slave ships.

Sending back the bust of Churchill was tacky, as well; there are warehouses for such things if you don't want them.

Still, the gifts are the protocol chief's problem in State. State, notorious for its 'peregruzka' gaffe, showing that not only does nobody there speak Russian, they don't even know what alphabet Russian's written in.

The entire press conference business might also have been protocol's cock-up. Perhaps not. It shows a tin ear, however, if you ask me. Except, but don't offer, tokens of respect.

[marshall]

51. This isn't two fishing buddies giving each other a buddy gift

It's two heads of state exchanging very symbolic tokens.

[960]

52. Faux outrage to cover for a lame ass gift from Obama?

Yup.
But look, the whole gift gate is stupid. Just let it go.
None of these fat cats need or deserve ANY gift. Get to work boys!

[saltpoint]

55. Here's my thought. What say we get Gordon and Barack to

go out to Pizza Hut or somewhere, order a pizza with stuff they both like on it, plus a couple of cold beers.

And throw in some cheese sticks, for god's sake.

Their respective staff folk & security detail can be seated close by but not so close that they can eavesdrop on the conversation.

Brown is a smart guy. Obama is a smart guy. The pizza is edible. The beer is cold.

I think these 2 guys could reach an accord before the second slice.

[WinkyDink]

56. A blender would have been ever so much better.

[cooolandrew]

59. Amen to DVDs! K&R.