What. The. Fuck! - NY Post's Obama/Chimp Cartoon

[Yes We Did]

New York Post Chimp Cartoon Compares Stimulus Author To Dead Primate

A cartoon likening the author of the stimulus bill, perhaps President Barack Obama, with a rabid chimpanzee graced the pages of the New York Post on Wednesday.

The drawing, from famed cartoonist Sean Delonas, seems rife with racial and political sensitivities. In it, two befuddled-looking police officers holding guns look over the dead and bleeding chimpanzee that attacked a woman in Stamford, Connecticut.

"They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill," reads the caption.

An email to Delonas and a call to the New York Post went unreturned. The cartoon appears both on the New York Post website and page 12 of the Wednesday paper.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/new-york-post-chimp-carto_n_167841.html



on edit: oops... forgot the link.

[Thrill]

1. What do you expect from the NYPOST/FAUX NEWS?

[Yes We Did]

2. I never "expect" THIS from any "news" source.

If I expect it, then it becomes okay. No... This is fucking wrong.

[Thrill]

9. Its not okay. Its digusting. But this is the norm for this organization.

I'm not sure this is the lowest they've gone.

[onetwo]

3. My buddy just called me about this; didn't see it yet and gave Post benefit of the doubt...

...this worse than I imagined. SO offensive!

[lurky]

50. NEVER give the Post the benefit of the doubt.

They are the lowest of the low. That being said, they really outdid themselves on this one. Fucking scumsuckers.

[bdamomma]

4. this thread too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8206272&mesg_id=8206272

[Yes We Did]

7. Always a bridesmaid.

I was on huffpo when it changed over.

[Graybeard]

15. Thanks to both of you.

If not for your post I would have missed the earlier one supplied by bdamomma.

[AspenRose]

5. Yep. It's worse than the New Yorker cover.

Way worse.

[uponit7771]

6. Some people will act as if blacks weren't called chimps and Obama had nothing to do with the stimulu

...stimulus bill to excuse the NYP

[Yes We Did]

8. They already are.

Didn't take long. (Post 4 links to it)

[Occam Bandage]

10. No, it's just a chimp cartoon.

A chimp was in the news. It had broken loose and went, well, apeshit. (On edit: The cops shot it.) You can even see a reference to that on the front page you provided. The joke was, hey, the stimulus bill is so bad, it is as if this insane chimpanzee wrote it.

I would not have run this cartoon, since I am aware that any time people could possibly draw an inference that an ape is supposed to represent a black person, they probably will, and will be offended. Stereotypes exist, cartoons exploit stereotypes, and so you should be very careful about avoiding any appearance of a racial stereotype. Still, I don't think that any racial angle is intended here.

[Yes We Did]

14. While I concede it is possible...

Considering the source, (NYP) I find that highly doubtful. More likely... they saw an opportunity to run something like that and hide behind the cover *you are giving them...

* = fluffy happy people

[Occam Bandage]

17. I don't give them nearly as much intellectual credit as you do.

I don't think the editor said, "hey, guys, here's a chance to do some sly race baiting. Why don't you mock up a cartoon that might possibly have a racial angle with this chimp but which, on its face, has nothing to do with race whatsoever. That way, people who are totally on to us will be offended, but most people will think it's just a cartoon about a chimp!"

I think, instead, he said, "heh heh heh, that bill sure was a mess, and chimps are funny. Run it," without thinking twice about any racial implications, because he is a Murdoch dolt who does not think of such things.

[Yes We Did]

27. They're republicans.

I don't put it past them. Not for 1 second.

Regardless, it was wrong to run it, whether due to racism or ignorance. We deserve better.

[Occam Bandage]

29. I agree that it should not have been run.

I even said as much.

[Yes We Did]

31. Yes...

I'm not the one arguing with you. :) Just a friendly discussion from me.

[Spazito]

19. Riiiiight! The NYP would never do that....

and the reference to the chimp writing the stimulus bill has NOTHING to do with the President Obama. It is merely coincidental that chimps, etc, have historically been used to depict blacks.

Geez, I really didn't think you were naive, it seems I was wrong.

Edited to add: Please peruse the link in Post #12, it may be quite educational to you.

[Occam Bandage]

22. So the argument is that it must be racist

because the New York Post publishes blatant racism all the time. If they have a history of blatant racism (and not simply blithe racial insensitivity, which is what I propose this cartoon is), then I would happily readjust my calculus, but I have yet to see such.

[Spazito]

26. I am not surprised you can't see it...

when you use such terms as "blithe racial insensitivity" as if that is something other than racism. You don't even see how using such terminology to describe this cartoon is an admission the cartoon is racist in it's content.

Amazing.

[Occam Bandage]

32. I think there is a difference between

directly comparing a black man to an ape, and referencing an ape in a manner that is not intended to also reference a black man, but which would obviously lead to many people drawing that comparison because of long-standing racial stereotypes.

One is racism, intended to demean. The other is racial insensitivity, which is born not of malice but rather of an inability or lack of desire to ensure that the appropriate message is conveyed to all. Neither is right, but neither is the other.

[Spazito]

37. I get it, you do not see this as racism, most do...

thank goodness.

[Yes We Did]

40. He makes a good point...

The possibility is still there, and OB agrees it shouldn't be run in the first place.

While the reasoning "why it's bad" may be different, it's still important. We don't live in a 100% society of black and white. Occam is looking at the gray area here. There is nothing wrong with that.

95% agreement is a lot better than 0.

[Spazito]

46. Sorry, when it comes to what is clearly seen by most as blatant racism...

95% agreement is moot. Racism is not "gray", it is or it is not. This cartoon is clearly the former and not the latter. The poster chooses to label this cartoon as merely being "blithe racial insensitivity", again, as if there should be a difference and tolerance for such, there should not, imo .

It is as if there are 'degrees' of racism and one should only point out that which is not "blithe racial insensitivity" and only re-act to that which is, in the posters' interpretation, blatant racism.

[Yes We Did]

49. I think it is racist...

Otherwise I wouldn't have stated so, however just because I think it is doesn't make it so. Just because most think it is doesn't make it so.

Furthermore, there is a gray area in every aspect of life. There are degrees of everything we experience. This world is not black and white, cut and dry...

We disagree on this, but that's okay, because we agree on the greater point; that discrimination of any kind, regardless of the degree, is unacceptable.

[Spazito]

52. Yes, we do agree on the greater point to be sure!

:hug:

[Occam Bandage]

42. The "most do" is very important.

It should have been obvious to any editor that most would see that as racism, and so it should not have been run.

[Spazito]

47. You and I can totally agree on that!

Edited to add: I have appreciated we could debate this without a great degree of rancor. Thank you for that.

[uponit7771]

33. Blacks were never called chimps and Obama had NOTHING to do with the stimulus bill hunh? You can

...be "sensitive" about the issue all you want but at the LEAST this was REALLY REALLY REALLY bad timing AND bad wording.

Racism still exist, it was democrats mostly who voted Obama in as president

[Occam Bandage]

35. It seems you do not disagree with me. As I say in the post to which you replied,

"I would not have run this cartoon, since I am aware that any time people could possibly draw an inference that an ape is supposed to represent a black person, they probably will, and will be offended. Stereotypes exist, cartoons exploit stereotypes, and so you should be very careful about avoiding any appearance of a racial stereotype. Still, I don't think that any racial angle is intended here."

[uponit7771]

51. I don't agree with this statement, "..Still, I don't think that any racial angle is intended here.."

The racial angle is at the LEAST the overt lack of sensitivity to the racial epitaphs regarding blacks.

[Occam Bandage]

65. I did not say there was no racial angle.

I said I doubted the cartoonist intended one. An overt lack of sensitivity is indeed a racial angle, it is an offensive angle, and it is an angle for which the paper and the cartoonist should apologize, but it is not an angle that was intended.

[w4rma]

56. This is NOT just a "chimp" cartoon. This is one of the most racist and foul pictures I've ever seen

printed in a semi-major newspaper. So, fuck you, Occam Bandage, and your apologies for racism.

[Occam Bandage]

62. Really? One of the most racist you've ever seen?

You must be sheltered.

[lame54]

58. it's an excuse...

w/o the chimp story there would be no cartoon - but it's a huge stretch to even include the stimulus bill into the cartoon - the 2 stories couldn't be further apart
but they saw an opportunity to racially degrade Obama and to even wish his death - because, hey - it's just a chimp cartoon

[Occam Bandage]

61. The dude also tied A-Rod, the NJ syrup smell and the Octomom to the stimulus.

No stretch is beyond him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8206752

[hileeopnyn8d]

71. I agree with you,

it's an excuse.

As someone in the other thread stated so well - opportunistic racist hatred is still racist hatred.

[Canuckistanian]

66. Then what's funny about it?

These cartoons usually have a humorous or cogent point to make.

If it WASN'T referring to Obama, then what statement was the cartoonist supposed to be making?

[Occam Bandage]

67. That the stimulus bill was poorly written, which is the subject of about half his cartoons nowadays.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8206752&mesg_id=8206752

[spanone]

81. the only connection i can make between the monkey and the stimulus package is NOTHING

IT'S RACIST imo

[Occam Bandage]

85. Quick: what connection can you make between the stimulus package and the Octomom?

How about between the stimulus package and A-Rod? How about the stimulus package and the syrup smell in NJ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8206752&mesg_id=8206752

[polmaven]

83. Sorry,

Occam, but that is just plain racist!

[Deep13]

11. So we have gross racism and assassignation...

...what's all the fuss about?

:wtf: <---Since there is no Klan smiley, I'll just use this.

[dcindian]

12. Here is a look at the cartoonist intent be sure to page through some of his earlier work.

He is one twisted and sick racist. And an anti Democrat to boot no doubt in my mind what he meant by it.

http://www.nypost.com/delonas/delonas.htm

Be sure to hold your nose when viewing.

[Yes We Did]

16. The further back you go the worse it gets. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

21. I haven't seen any racism yet, but there's a lot of cartoons and a terrible interface.

Links? I mean, it's obvious he's a RWer who doesn't like the stimulus bill, but that much is obvious from the cartoon.

[dcindian]

24. He is a right winger who has to push the envelope of degradation to be funny.

He recycles a lot too which shows he has little else but that to go on. I think that is enough to figure out what his intent was.

[Yes We Did]

25. Will You Settle For Disgusting?

because it pisses me off when they spell his name wrong.

[Occam Bandage]

34. It's pretty obvious that he is a right-wing douchebag, yes. nt

[Lost in CT]

36. That last one is pretty funny.

and none of those cartoons were racist so I'm not sure what your point is.

[Yes We Did]

39. I didn't say they were racist.

That was someone else... And leave poor Jessica alone.

[Baikonour]

53. Why are you defending this crap?

I know you're smarter than that.

[Occam Bandage]

63. I'm not.

I'm defending the word "racist."

[traxster]

13. As a black citizen of this country....

Its clear that they knew exactly what they were doing. They can try to denigrate him all they want. He is our President, he is their President, so SCREW THEM!

I am not one to get too upset over ignorance, but this one is too much.

[Yes We Did]

18. You mean...

You don't want to give them the benefit of doubt? Stop being so bigoted against their bigotry. :sarcasm:

[traxster]

23. Oh yeah...what was I thinking?

Sure, they meant no harm at all. Clearly they were not thinking about the historical references of blacks as monkeys for as long as anyone can remember. Just like the guy at the McCain rally who had the monkey with the Obama sticker. He wasn't a racist...he really liked Curious George. :sarcasm:

[uponit7771]

30. RIGHT!! I know people are going to be stupid but this take it too far

[AspenRose]

38. Unfortunately, in this country, the people being discriminated against don't get to

determine what's considered offensive, to the degree where something can actually be done about it on a grand scale.

It's the majority in the culture who call the shots....and set the standards for what is acceptable and what is not.

When the minority group being offended rightfully expresses offense, they are considered "hypersensitive" and roundly ignored and ridiculed, while the offender is given the benefit of the doubt.

That dynamic works for racial politics as well as gender and GLBT politics. :-(

[opihimoimoi]

20. Despicable racism....they wallow in it.....

[kickysnana]

28. This thing is terrible on so many levels.

My first take on the cartoon, because I have a lot of brain fog this morning, was face value and I thought it was lame.

After reading the thread then I remembered that monkey has been used as a derogatory term for AA folks and thought that is terrible why was it printed.

After thinking about it for a while I began thinking of the Rethugs in government especially in California and then I have to wonder if it is even more terrible than I first thought. (An ad for assassination?)

It is no accident that it was published but then we always knew that the Rethugs and their mouthpieces were that terrible didn't we.

Just another day in paradise.

[CitizenPatriot]

41. for those who find this offensive

[email protected]

1-800-552-7678


Frankly, I didn't know anything about the escaped chimp, but to see a cop shooting at a being who supposedly wrote the stimulus bill didn't sit right with me.

So, I let them know. I am doubly uncomfortable by the apparent fact that their paper gets donated to several schools (WTF?).

We certainly didn't need more HELP in whipping the extremists into a frenzy of hate.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. hey, thanks for the contact info-

and the point about killing the author of the stimulus bill- so wrong- so incredibly wrong...!

[CitizenPatriot]

59. My pleasure:-)

I'm just not taking this shit anymore...

I wrote them AND sent my email list a message with contact info. I know they don't care, but the point is that we must speak out when something is wrong.

Apparently in this world, fauxrage or poutrage is all the rage.

I'm working it:-)

Thanks for joining the bandwagon! :toast: :toast: :toast:

[nc4bo]

74. Up front and center: 1-800-552-7678.

[dcindian]

43. Is there a list of Post advertisers?

Time to show them the light.

[Bluerthanblue]

44. can't imagine ever reading this rag, BUT

that's just way over the top-

I hope there is big time blow-back. This is wrong on so many levels.


:nuke:

[marshall]

45. Didn't congress write the bill?

I would think it's referring to the critters in congress as apes, not Obama. Or at least all of DC together.

At any rate, I think we need to brace ourselves for growing attacks on Obama fronted as "humor". They'll take all the cartoons about ape-ish Bush from the past eight years and just change the names.

[uponit7771]

64. Obama had his version also, the cartoon was stupid

[treestar]

54. Whoah, they think Bush wrote the bill?

[CitizenPatriot]

60. hee hee..that's what I thought before I saw the cartoon...nt

[lame54]

55. I hope the secret service gets into this one

[Bigmo472]

57. WTF???

Wow, It's amazing that no matter how much everyone talks about this election uniting the country, there has to be an idiot who wants to continue with racist behavior. This guy is a political cartoonist/satirist. His job is to take events and look at them from all angles and determine if he can spin them to get a laugh while also promoting more extensive thought on the subject. This isn't some kid who draws pictures and doesn't realize the implications. To say that he doesn't think about the racial implications because he's not black is a copout. I don't have to be Mexican American to know not to depict them taking a siesta or climbing out of a river. I don't have to be Native American to know not to depict them unconscious with liquor bottles scattered around or chasing wolves with bows and arrows. This guy knew exactly what he was doing and chose to do it anyway. The moment I saw the cartoon I immediately saw the racist context. Even trying to say that President Obama is not the only one who worked on the bill doesn't wash either because everyone calls it The President's Stimulus Package. When we listen to an Obama speech we give him credit if we like what he says or blame him if we don't like it. Nobody asks "Who is this guy's speechwriter?". Bottom line is this guy screwed up and should have to face some consequences.

[AspenRose]

68. Welcome to DU.

[Zodiak]

70. Let's not forget the editors who approved of this cartoon

There are a number of people who approved of this piece of shit before it hit the shelves. I have no doubt in my mind that at least ONE of them thought about the racial overtones and went ahead with this cartoon anyways.

Republicans and racists are terrible at subtlety, and I think this cartoon was them trying to be clever and falling flat on their faces.

I do not give racists the "benefit of the doubt". That is how racism is allowed to continue....excuse the abusers, denigrate the victims. Fuck that! I want a written apology to Barack Obama and the people of New York...and not one of those "I'm sorry if you were offended..." bullshit apologies.

[nc4bo]

76. Absolutely right and I said as much (among other things) when I called them.

F'ing insanity.

[Highway61]

69. That is the most disgusting

I have seen in one hell of a long time.

[nc4bo]

72. JFC I can't find a phone number fast enough!!!!

They deserve no less than a personal phone call.

[WeDidIt]

73. I'm thinking a visit by the SS to the NY Post

and to the cartoonist would be in order.

This is a blatantly racist assassination threat.

[CitizenPatriot]

77. and a screenshot sent to the NAACP wouldn't be out of order

either.

[tekisui]

75. Notice the 'Beware of Dog' sign, with chimp, bonus racism.

SICK.SICK.SICK.

The are validating all the racist nutjobs who want to off the President.

[bunnies]

79. There was a BEWARE OF DOG sign at the chimps house.

[tekisui]

80. I mentioned this in the other thread.

I doubt the cartoonist was going for accuracy here. He was using the entire situation as cover for a racist cartoon.

[rvablue]

82. That sign was actually the first thing that jumped out at me as it was loading....

I think the inclusion of it is to add a menacing feel.

This "cartoon" sucks. Can't wait for Reverend Al to show up!



ed:sp

[bunnies]

84. I think you give him too much credit.

Do you really think this guy is that intellectually advanced? :shrug:

[CitizenPatriot]

78. also write LTTE and call local radio stations today if you are offended by this

garbage....

[MadBadger]

86. I think the original intent was not exactly racist, but the NY Post knew people would react this way

And they just didnt care.