Not even THREE WEEKS, and many here have already given up.

[Dawgs]

I sure am glad you guys don't play for my favorite sports team. Many of you are a bunch of quitters.

Hopefully this is just a DU thing.

In less than a month, Democrats (and Obama) got more done than Bush did in eight years, and yet it's still not enough.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/2/6/1818/53271/408/694213

Muzikal203's diary :: ::
* Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act into law
* Signed CHIP legislation into law
* Created a Middle Class Task Force
* Signed a memorandum instructing U.S. Aid to be sent to Gaza
* Laid out new rules for companies receiving federal aid
* Set out new efficiency standards to get us headed towards energy independence
* Got the ball rolling on the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships (which DOESN'T discriminate against ANY religion or lack thereof)
* Created an Economic Advisory Board

His cabinet is pretty much complete, and it's been a smooth and quick process minus a few bumps from earlier in this week.

He found time to go visit a charter school and spend some time talking about education (which is often ignored more than I'd like)

He even had a freakin' bipartisan SuperBowl Party

They passed a much needed stimulus bill that is very close to the original. It does contain tax cuts, but they are for the middle class and they were added by Democrats, not Republicans.

The Republicans still have us by the balls with the filibuster, so we can't have EXACTLY what we want until we add 4-6 seats in 2010.

So quit whining, and don't STOP fighting. We're not there yet.

[babylonsister]

1. I'm thinking those who are 'giving up' had no intention of supporting

PrezObama in the first place.

[BlueCaliDem]

9. I think you're right. n/t

[Pirate Smile]

13. I agree. People who want to attack him, will. He is going to get bashed by Republicans and the

Media. What sucks is the number of Democrats who are happy to add to it without looking realistically at what he has to do to get things done.

CNN just did a report on stimulus money for the Pentagon. Someone was on complaining that the money wasn't for their weapon systems. The response - those are already working at full capacity. They couldn't be ramped up more for years. They are already taking on third shifts.

The money is going for barracks and infrastructure work. Who could complain about that in a stimulus bill? Have no fear, they will find a way. The complaint - the projects are not based on need, i.e. what barracks need to be renovated the most - instead they are based on speed - which projects are ready to go RIGHT NOW. Of course, if it was based on need then they would complain about speed (like they did in the House) and not getting the $$$ out there fast enough.


I think there are just chronic bitchers. They always see the glass as half empty. Always focus on the negative, what we didn't get instead of what we did.

We can stay pure and not get it passed through the Senate or actually get the thing done.

There are always Democrats who are perfectly happy to aim their fire at Democrats. Such is life.

[glitch]

18. Obama is an adult. He can take dissent. He's not Bush, and we're not bushbots

marching in lockstep and shouting down anyone who doesn't bow down to our leader's brilliance.

[babylonsister]

21. No one asked you, or me, to bow down to anyone.

But look around. The bitchers and moaners are at full throttle instead of perhaps enjoying what has been accomplished. That gets tiresome and it's usually the same suspects doing the complaining.

[glitch]

26. Whining about the whining only amplifies the whole whining tone.

It's getting hard to tell the difference. The cheerleaders are not that much better than the doomsayers, IMO. Neither one bothers to analyze the policy and discuss best options. They just pick their sides and open fire.

When you discount all dissent as whining you are contributing to that binary.

[merh]

56. LOL, so you whine about the "whining about the whining".

:rofl:

Please note, this is not "whining" this is laughing.

:rofl:

[Cha]

62. You got her there,

merh! GIVE PEAS A CHANCE!

I'm laughing too:rofl:

[Cha]

61. She just told you that all dissent wasn't

discounted..in so many words.

[stillcool]

24. no but we bow down to our Representatives...

and Senators and let them do whatever the hell they want. That lock-step thing would pass some legislation...but oh no! People can't even bother to pick up the damn phone, they're so busy "holding Obama's feet to the fire"

[glitch]

28. Actually I think a lot of "the whining" is about the congress too.

And why do you assume no one is calling their representatives?

[stillcool]

32. I assume that very few...

of 'we the people' are participating. Why do I say that? Because I got through to most Senators this week with no problem.

[glitch]

39. Well, you may be right about DUers not calling. But maybe not.

Granted most of "we the people" don't participate.

[Cha]

59. We're not talking about you, glitch..

It's the trolls who use anything as an excuse to continue bashing Obama with venom..oh, and they never have any support for him WHATSOEVER.

They're so obvious but, of course, they think they're being oh so clever.

[placton]

87. Amen -

if we dont hold feet to the fire, no one will

[Grateful for Hope]

67. I totally agree on this

From day one, I have gotten the impression that there has been a tendency for some to magnify any negative, while ignoring the positives.

I think Obama is doing an awesome job considering the lack of cooperation from Congress, and considering the dire state of our country. I admire him immensely.

[firedupdem]

2. President Obama is doing a great job...especially given the

crap he's walking into. Worst job loss situation in 34 yrs and getting worse by the week. He's got my support and has done nothing to make it waver!

:patriot:

[Clio the Leo]

79. We all just need to thank the Lord in Heaven...

.... or our lucky stars or whatever you want to thank that THIS man came along at THIS time. In a lot of ways, "The fierce urgency of now" was a campaign slogan ... he really had no idea.

But man, was he right.

[Kdillard]

3. Thank you. The bill has not even been voted on in Congress.

I am waiting to see what happens in conference. Obama is going on tv and in towns hard hit by the economic probelms. Instead of complaining we need to be contacting our congress people and newspapers supporting the efforts being made and urging them to make it better.

[bridgit]

4. It just shows how many here thought it would be a pie-in-the-sky cake walk...

tearing the levers of power from the hands of conservative blood thirsty neocon republicanism and yeah; Obama has done allot in a little time and it is pissing them off and they are pushing back. The bush admin vacated the last of whatever bipartisanship was thought to be so the continued hand wringing makes little sense

[On the Road]

5. Obama Proposes the Biggest Liberal Spending Package

in four decades, then gives up 10% of it to get the bill passed and people are calling him all kinds of names. Makes sense to me.

All these concessions are fine if the bill gets passed. No reason any of them can't be passed separately on their own merits. The bill is huge and most of the concessions are not directly jobs-related anyway. Obama will have a great record to run on in 2012.

[Teaser]

22. Most of the "concessions" will be put back in conference committee anyway.

.

[On the Road]

29. I Didn't Even Think of It That Way

the bill *is* really, really large. Even though stimulus is neeed, I share some of the concerns. And it should be directed towards jobs and investment.

[CreekDog]

54. Don't forget aid to states so they can pay unemployment and not lay off teachers

these are two things that will happen if this bill is not passed.

[Christian30]

6. Exactly!

I'm a fundraiser and the economic downturn is freaking me out. That said, Obama has already moved on several important reforms and policies. This bill was always going to be a fight. What we really need is for those DUers who have Repuke and "Blue Dog" Dems as their senators to contact their offices and demand that they pass the Stimulus. I live in NYC and my senators are on board. We must get Lindsay Graham and the other obstructionist assholes to get out of the way.

[LWolf]

7. I'm not sure what people have "given up" on.

I gave up on hope for real, authentic change in January of '08. I'm not a fan, and have never been caught up in the euphoric rush that others have. I've never expected great things from an Obama presidency.

I haven't given up on hope that the Obama administration will be a decent compromise.

I haven't been on DU this week; too busy. I haven't even checked the news. I worked (5) 13 hour days in a row. Now that I've had the chance to catch up on sleep and check in with the world, and at DU, the issue I see people frustrated with is the stimulus package in the senate. Is this what you are talking about?

I completely empathize with the anger, and the frustration. Obama is not solely responsible for the willingness of Senate Democrats to gut the most essential services while maintaining tax cuts in order to pander to the other side of the aisle, although his encouragement of "bipartisanship" is certainly a contributing factor.

Defiant idealist that I am, I'm still holding out hope that voting Democrats will hold their elected officials accountable for pandering to, caving to, and complicity with, their republican counterparts, regardless of the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

Is there something that Obama has said or done this week to cause his fans to "give up?"

[Dawgs]

10. My OP was about Democrats and Obama.

"...is not solely responsible for the willingness of Senate Democrats to gut the most essential services while maintaining tax cuts in order to pander to the other side of the aisle, although his encouragement of "bipartisanship" is certainly a contributing factor."

They weren't pandering. They were getting a stimulus passed the only way they could. Take it from someone who watched the Republicans in Senate all week. They are lucky to be getting the 2-3 Republicans they did.

[LWolf]

How many republicans do they need to pass it? nt

[BlueCaliDem]

8. Bingo! Thank you! Although I'd like to see Leader Reid replaced (too weak)

as Majority Leader, he has been able to navigate angry Rushpublicans and "democrat" Ben Nelson in a very contentious battle.

I just wish he'd use Senate precedence and seat Al Franken provisionally. I still don't understand why he'd cave to the Rushpublicans and not do it already.

[Dawgs]

11. Agree. I'm not a big fan of Reid myself, but...

I'm not sure anyone else could have done much better. The Republicans haven't changed, and they never will. Reid is lucky to get 2-3 Republicans supporting this bill.

[BlueCaliDem]

43. I guess I just wished Reid would show more "fire".

Knowing that perception is king, and knowing that perception is made up of 70% how you look (he's too serene), 20% how you say things (he's too soft-spoken), and only 10% what you say, Sen. Reid isn't the best pick to be Majority Leader of the Democrats against no-lips McConnell.

The reality is, our media only like to cover "fire" and there's a lot of that in Rushpublicans.

Like on the Rushpublicans' side, we need a leader who can whip our not-very-loyal Dem members into line for very important legislation. Sen. Reid is way too much of a gentleman. It's not necessarily a bad thing to seem above the fray, but fact of the matter is, Rushpublicans are bullies and bullies only respect in-your-face opponents.

It should've never gotten this far out of hand.

Just my opinion.

[dcindian]

12. It has actually been two years.

I think that ignoring the last two years of capitulation is being disingenuous.

[babylonsister]

14. So now we should blame Obama for past capitulations when a

rethug was in office and held the reins? Have at it. I won't.

[dcindian]

15. In less than a month, Democrats (and Obama) got more done than Bush did in eight years, and yet it's

The original poster only included President Obama in parathencies. I responded Democrats have failed us they have been part and parcel in letting a mass murderer destroy our constitution. I for one will not ignore that fact you may wish to but that is up to you.

[babylonsister]

17. You changed the entire subject of this OP. Why not start your own

regarding our constitution, and I will probably agree with you. But you insinuated something into this thread that wasn't there. So yes, you will be ignored.

[dcindian]

19. Who the fuck cares who you ignore.

Why bother announcing it? Just do it.


Just want to edit and add:

I think it is kinda telling how little respect you and the original poster show our president. He has earned the right to be called president Obama.

[CitizenPatriot]

53. I beg to differ

We are just beginning to see the truly heinous stuff come out of the DoJ. Legislation is only as good as the upholding of said legislation.

THe DoJ was corrupted and politicized beyond recognition. Congress has been cut off at the knees for years -- impotent, for all intents and purposes.

Witness the info on Steele, which was known and not investigated until suddenly, it got leaked to the WaPo that the DoJ knew this for years...Or any other instance of illegal use of the DoJ by repub party.

[Dawgs]

31. Bullshit. There were only 49 Democrats in the Senate prior to January 09.

No way can you blame them for not getting enough done.

Run for office if you think it's that easy.

[bvar22]

16. You know,....

....my old hound dog could tell after one block whether we were going to the Vet's Office, or to the Park.

So far, I don't care much for the "New Era of Post-Partisanship".
I've been a Democrat too long to change now.


"Centrism"....for those who are proud to be Half-Republican.

[1776Forever]

20. I'll give some who are down on their luck a pass on this - Sometimes depression gets the best of you

I was so glad to hear President Obama voice his apposition to the Repub's greed and ignorance the other evening! This is what we need - Our Voice in the Wilderness of Hopelessness.

I have lost my home but we are lucky because we had family that helped us out for awhile until we got moved and found a full-time job. I am so grateful for that but I don't know what I would have done if this hadn't happened. So many are homeless and jobless, or soon will be, and I know for a fact that if you are an adult and have no minor children you are SOL in a lot of states! So let's hope things will turn around for those who have lost hope soon.

:fistbump: We are in this together!

[JeffreyWilliamson]

23. Who are you suggesting we are "quitting" on here, Obama, or "Democrats"...

I don't remember anyone here giving up on Obama, or Democrats in general. Lots of people are upset by our party's recent Senate actions. But you appear to be taking our criticism of them as criticism of President Obama himself. Or maybe you're just setting up a strawman, forcing us to attack Obama because you've laid out his accomplishments in 3 weeks as if they were our Senate leadership's.

Muzikal203's diary :: ::
* Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act into law
* Signed CHIP legislation into law
* Created a Middle Class Task Force
* Signed a memorandum instructing U.S. Aid to be sent to Gaza
* Laid out new rules for companies receiving federal aid
* Set out new efficiency standards to get us headed towards energy independence
* Got the ball rolling on the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships (which DOESN'T discriminate against ANY religion or lack thereof)
* Created an Economic Advisory Board

His cabinet is pretty much complete, and it's been a smooth and quick process minus a few bumps from earlier in this week.

He found time to go visit a charter school and spend some time talking about education (which is often ignored more than I'd like)

He even had a freakin' bipartisan SuperBowl Party

Harry Reid didn't do any of the above--Barack Obama did. Barack Obama also banned torture and ordered the closure of Gitmo. None of us are attacking President Obama or "quitting" on him. We're all pretty happy with his performance so far from what I've been able to tell.

A few of us are pretty upset at the changes made to our President's stimulus plan in the Senate, and we don't think our leadership should have allowed a lot of those changes to be made. That's what a lot of us are upset about. I personally feel as though my President has been cheated to a large degree, and I seriously hope this situation is resolved in conference.

There's a name for the party that cannot take criticism and paints anyone who dissents as some kind of traitor--it's called the Republican party.

[Dawgs]

33. Bullshit.

I've read your posts this morning. You've been crying all day.

[JeffreyWilliamson]

38. You didn't address anything in my post...

Just said I've been crying all day...

If believing we should stand up to endless filibuster threats is crying, then so be it. At least I'm not rolling over in fear at the first sign of huffiness from the Puke minority in the Senate. They were never kind enough to do that for us, from what I remember.

We are not required, to the best of my knowledge, to march lock-step without question behind our Senate leadership. That is a requirement of the other party from what I've noticed. If the Democratic members of the Senate voted tomorrow to authorize use of military force against Iran, would it be crying to question their judgement?

[Dawgs]

34. "A few of us are pretty upset at the changes made to our President's stimulus plan in the Senate"

What the fuck did you expect him to do?

[JeffreyWilliamson]

40. Call them on bluff...

But, you did ask what I "expected him to do". I guess when I really think about it, I didn't expect him to do anything but cave in the face of the threat, since that what he always does.

[stillcool]

50. oops..delete

[stillcool]

25. They have nothing to give up...

I doubt very many of the 'lock-steppers' care about anything but voicing their 'dissent' on a message board. Especially if they get paid for it.

[sandnsea]

27. They watered down the middle class tax cuts

They extended the first-time homebuyer tax credit and rescinded the refundability part of it, and added another business tax credit.

Yes it is true the stupid auto tax credit was introduced by Mikulski, but it is not true that the changes made in the Senate were good for the middle class.

The only beneficial change the Senate made was to the AMT. The cuts they made were not worth the tax cuts they compromised on, that's the point.

We need to fight to get some of this back in the House.
http://www.obama-mamas.com/stimulus-senate.htm

[Dawgs]

35. Okay, so what could they have done?

Quit telling us what the Democrats did to the bill, and instead, tell us specifically what you would have done to get a stimulus bill passed.

[sandnsea]

36. Had a better PR campaign

Which is exactly what I'm trying to do right now, to get some of this back in Conference.

[Thrill]

94. I actually blame the Democrats more than Obama

They learned nothing from the Republicans and how they pushed Bush's agenda

[Life Long Dem]

30. Freepers, hiding behind DU membership and the Democratic label.

Heat or no heat. My membership up in the air or not.

Your a freeper if you call it a loss for Obama before he left the starting gate.

Your a freeper if you drag propaganda onto DU and argue for it.

Of course they'll disagree, and yell and throw a tantrum and try to convince you they are real Democrats. And the argument then starts to ring some bells about the old campaign arguments we used to have where there was no way some were holding a Democratic position of support for the party and candidate.

[BlueCaliDem]

42. I've been noticing there are a lot of them here, too. n/t

[dcindian]

44. Your either with us 100% of the time or your against us.

Congrats on your continued slide to fascism.

[Life Long Dem]

49. And your a freeper if your coming to that conclusion.

Because you don't bother to read what I said. Instead your one who calls a failure on Obama before he left the starting gate.

Which is exactly what you just did to me.

[Runcible Spoon]

66. ARGHHHH! It's "you're" not "your". I'm not a grammar Nazi but you've done that 4 times now!

:banghead:

:rantoff:

[Zodiak]

80. Calling someone a freeper is against DU rules

...and it is insulting.

Please tone down your negative rhetoric.

[LostinVA]

83. Thank you

[Zodiak]

90. No prob...its good to not be a mod any more

Its actually easier to help police this site without being one.

[LostinVA]

84. At least use proper grammar when you are breaking DU rules: it is "you're"

[elocs]

37. This is a DU thing where we "constructively criticize" and eat our own.

We also demand that President Obama and the Democratic members of Congress jump through our hoops and do things as we think they should best be done.

[dcindian]

45. Hmm.... maybe we should just sit and take it like a good luttle commie?

Come on say it.

No one should have a voice.


You people are sick.

[Honeycombe8]

41. Not me. I'm not goin' anywhere. I'm stuck like glue to Obama.

Not to say I won't criticize or express exasperation occasionally.

But I'm stuck to this honorable man like glue. As long as I think he's the same man I voted for in 2008, I'll cont. to vote for him and back him.

The Big O. Finally. A President with smarts and who cares. Wow. I still pinch myself sometimes.

[MzShellG]

46. Tell me about it.

President Obama warned us during his campaign that this would be an uphill battle. That washington would not accept change easily. He needs our support, not criticism. I'm proud of what he has accomplished so far so soon.

[FrenchieCat]

47. I shall not make perfect the enemie of the good......

because it does nothing for anyone.

I'm here to support progress, not to criticize those attempting to bring it.

[anonymous171]

48. I haven't given up. I'm ready to take to the streets. nt

[Fire1]

91. You and alot of other people.

[GinaMaria]

51. tracking weekly progress here

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/GinaMaria

[GinaMaria]

52. It's a combination of a few things

The forward focus of most human beings, our urgent economic/political situation and the Changing democratic party.

1. It's very common for people to look forward and focus on achieving goals. This can lead to a feeling of 'we have so far to go' and 'we aren't getting any where'. We sometimes need to remind ourselves to stop for a moment and look back at all we've done. But in doing so, we gain an altered perspective (usually). I've tried to keep track of weekly progress here http://journals.democraticunderground.com/GinaMaria

2. It's desperate out there. People are suffering now and needed relief before yesterday. Depending on your situation the urgency translates to 'not moving fast enough'. If you are not one of those who have lost your job, benefits, savings, home etc., you are still bombarded with daily messages about layoffs, unemployment numbers, bankrupt businesses, collapsing industries, economic recession/depression, obstacles in government and our culture/society that minimize the forward progress in our minds. It's like the balancing of scales and it can feel like the obstacles to progress far outweigh positive forward movement, or for every step forward we take two steps back. Again, the best antidote I've found for this is to take a moment to look at accomplishments weekly.

3. There are many people who formerly identified themselves as republican or moderate conservatives or even fiscal conservatives that walked away from the Republican party over the last few years over the neoCON agenda abandoning their core beliefs and political philosophies. It is not surprising that more than a few may have migrated to the Democratic Party and to this board. While these people are not freepers they are more conservative than the progressive (read VERY liberal) people who 8 years ago flocked to this board. There has been and probably will be a great deal of disagreement between the two (or more) groups. The more conservative among us may not agree completely with President Obama's plans. The more liberal among us may not feel comfortable with President Obama's inclusion of the opposition especially neoCON inclusion. We will eventually need to make some decisions as a party. Can we merge the wide range of views into one party? Will some split off? That's a discussion for another day.

For now, it helps to find out the other person's point of view and work together to see the progress made. As more people with different political beliefs begin to join in here, giving others the benefit of the doubt will become increasingly important. We can all make an effort in these tough economic times to be more generous and patient with each other. Many DUers are going hungry, or losing their homes, jobs, cars etc. We need to stick together and look out for each other. No one's future is certain.

Peace.

[Number23]

63. What a great post!

Again, the best antidote I've found for this is to take a moment to look at accomplishments weekly.

Excellent idea. One of the problems is that there are people here who have alot of emotional investment in certain issues. And because President Obama did not make their top priority HIS top priority, there is alot of resentment and anger towards him. While understanding and even having a certain amount of sympathy for this perspective, my personal belief is that this is foolish and counterproductive. There is no way the man could address every issue in his first week or two weeks in office and to declare him "Not my President" after 2.5 weeks because your top issue wasn't his is absurd. Regardless of what *I* might consider to be a top priority, there is no doubt in my mind that with millions of people losing their homes and jobs and literally dying from this economy, that should be his first priority. And I'm happy to say that it appears to be just that.

The more conservative among us may not agree completely with President Obama's plans. The more liberal among us may not feel comfortable with President Obama's inclusion of the opposition especially neoCON inclusion.

I'm an independent and thus neither (too) conservative or (too) liberal. But I completely agree with what you've written. There is no doubt that Obama has completely re-written the rules. It wasn't just Dems who voted him into office, but he and the Dem party have literally comprised a new mega-party consisting of Dems, indies, moderate Repubs, the most liberal of liberals, and the most conservative of liberals (if that makes sense). I think he even has a few bona fide die-hard conservatives tossed in for good measure as was evident from more than one of his endorsements during the campaign. I believe that this is great for the country, but it does make things more difficult for the Democratic party. And as you said, the party will need to make some very difficult decisions as a result.

[GinaMaria]

88. Insightful comments

After reading your comments, I have rethought the migration of previous non-democratic voters. The independent voters have always been the most mobile and it makes sense that we have an influx of independents as well as conservatives.

I believe that this is great for the country, but it does make things more difficult for the Democratic party. And as you said, the party will need to make some very difficult decisions as a result.

I believe awareness is the first step. Knowing this is what is going on, we can consciously make decisions through analysis and alignment to a bigger picture. This is something we need to start talking about. Do we have what it takes to stretch the label of democrat to include, conservative democrats, moderate democrats, green democrats, social democrats, fiscal democrats, progressive democrats, Christian democrats and every other faction represented in the voters who voted for President Obama. This is a tall order, but if we find a way, to stick together or at least work with each other, we could redefine party politics and possibly move from a 2 party system to a multi-party system. This needs a lot of thought and discussion. It would not be surprising if this was a global shift and not unique to our country. Would you be interested in working together to start discussions (even though I am one of the most liberal of liberals)?


my personal belief is that this is foolish and counterproductive.

I hope that through discussion we can better understand each other. I would ask you to be more patient, and really extend that to people you feel are foolish and counterproductive. They may or may not be, but it's time to start reaching out and understanding where people's perspectives were born. We are facing many things right now that require us to look out for one another. The more we care about each other the more likely we are to come through this with minimal damage.

I will leave you with one thought, but first a little information. My work involves organizational culture change and so it is with this experience that I will leave you with one final thought.

Culture eats Strategy for lunch.

It is up to the people of any organization to meet the goals. If the people are not on board, aligned and committed... you're not going any where. Even if you have spectacular leadership. Even if you've made a great case for change. We need to unite to make things happen. We are the grassroots change agents.

[Number23]

89. "Do we have what it takes to stretch the label of democrat?"

Do we have what it takes to stretch the label of democrat to include, conservative democrats, moderate democrats, green democrats, social democrats, fiscal democrats, progressive democrats, Christian democrats and every other faction represented in the voters who voted for President Obama.

Question of the Millennium. I've read many posts on DU from people who describe themselves as liberals voicing strong disapproval for one of Obama's picks for his cabinet or some other office because the person is not "liberal enough" and that it was "liberals who put Obama in office." I don't see how anyone could have experienced the primary and campaign last year and walked away with that impression.

Obama and the Democrats owe their win to so many different groups of individuals I honestly believe that it was fairly unprecedented in modern politics. Between women, young voters, the educated, racial minorities, first time voters, moderates and independents, gay voters, and conservatives who couldn't stomach McCain and/or Palin, I don't think it's possible for his support to be any more broad and a true representation of this country. I think for any group to claim "ownership" of him is not only impossible, but is also blind to what happened in the country last November.

I think the CONCEPT of Big Tent Democrats comprising all of the groups that you've listed exists, but as in all things, it's the practical application of these things that get in the way. So many want to believe that THEIR way of thinking and THEIR way of being Democrats is the purest/best which puts a) enormous strain on Democratic leadership b) pushes the more moderate Dems out. Being a pain in the butt to politicians is, imo, not a bad way to pass the time but pushing out moderates has a much more damaging and lasting impact. What has happened to the Repub party is proof of that.

Lastly, you asked for patience from me, which I find odd. When people yell that Obama is "not their president" or that he's "thrown them under a bus" after less than three weeks in office, it is to them that I think pleas for patience should be directed. However, I do feel that your comments about unity are spot on. Without it, we really are doomed to failure, and I wish that more people understood that.

[GinaMaria]

93. The call for unity is a tough pill to swallow

I know. I recently had to swallow it. It's my New years resolution. My point is that from your perspective your view is best just as from their perspective, their view is best. It's time to really meet each other half way. It may be that the moderate or centrist Dems are the ones that take over the party especially with a mass exodus of republicans on the horizon and the more liberal among us who are pushed out or will opt out. It's not like this hasn't been an issue here before. People here have wrestled with this on and off ever since I've been here. The perspectives will clash. We've managed to hold ourselves together, fragile as that adhesive may be, through previous election cycles. If we fracture, I hope it is after the repukes are dead and burried as a party. However, I think it would be better if we can come to a mutual understanding and work together. I think we need to do what Obama is doing in Washington and around the globe. It's a new concept in American politics.

Most of us are uncertain right now if we will have jobs in the near future or homes... there is desperation every where you go virtually and actually. There are some raw nerves exposed right now and it can take very little to set someone off who normally wouldn't react that way. That's why I encourage patience. Procede gently with people you come in contact with. I think there is usually more there than what you read in a post. The post is just the surface.

Peace.

[Number23]

95. "I think we need to do what Obama is doing in Washington and around the globe."

"It's a new concept in American politics."

Ab-so-DAMNED-lutely. :) I could not agree more. Obama and the Dem Party have re-written the rules and it is now up to us to decide if we want to adhere to them. And what I'm saying is that I wish more people understood this as well. To be perfectly honest, I get the distinct impression that the real world has a better understanding of that than even the political junkies on DU and other sites in the blogosphere. For the first time, it seems that some HERE have to catch up to our neighbors and friends whom we've often thought of as less aware, but who actually may be further along than we are to understanding the new political landscape.

I've enjoyed talking with you. You've definitely given me food for thought as well as made some great points.

[Still Sensible]

92. Outstanding points that should be taken to heart

by everyone here. Kudos.

[alcibiades_mystery]

55. Most of those pretending to have given up have been straight up Obama haters

Ever since he handed them their ass in the primaries. I'd wager half of these people voted for Mccain for spite.

[Two Americas]

57. not true

"Three weeks" is not relevant. People are talking about what has happened over the last three weeks. Whether it has been three seconds or three years, we should be free to talk about it. There are no time limits or schedules for expressing dissent, any more than there should be "free speech zones."

The critics and dissenters are speaking out for the same things that they have always spoken put for. That is not "giving up" that is soldiering on. I think that it is the fact that they are soldiering on, rather than quitting now that Democrats are in office is what is annoying you, not that they are "giving up."

In fact, the opposite is true. It is those so-called party loyalists who are giving up. They are calling for passivity and silence, and for trusting the elected politicians. They are the ones advocating "giving up" and turning it over to those in power.

This is yet another trick in the ongoing effort to suppress dissent.

Also, the idea that what we are seeing is just a start, and that we must be patient because more good things are coming, is probably false and may well be extremely dangerous. This is the high water mark. Everything is in favor of the Democratic party right now. If they do not fight now, if they do not strongly stand up for the people now, the likelihood of them doing so in the future is greatly diminished.

I have no problem with people wishing to cherish and cling to fantasy scenarios, about our team and our leader, as a way to individually cope with the crisis. I do object to them insisting that we all do that and trying to silence any who break the spell for them and make them feel uncomfortable.

[FreeState]

73. 100% agree with you

we do our nation a great disservice when we are not critical of every leader, in our party or not. We must never cave to our ideals.

[debbierlus]

58. No. We haven't given up. The bipartisan BS must end. You don't negotiate with criminals

You fight them.

[TXDemGal]

60. "Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!"

"NO!!"

[nichomachus]

69. The Germans attacked Pearl Harbor?

I thought they attacked Pearl Bailey.

[MedfordTim]

72. Forget it, (s)he's on a roll (n/t)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

64. I for one am even more positive than before Obama took office.

[lostnotforgotten]

65. Let's See

1) Bush and Cheney Still On the Lam
2) CIA and Military Torturers get off scott free
3) Extraordinary Rendition still the policy of the US
4) Iraq withdrawal from 16 months to 24 months
5) Two Cabinet Members with murky backgrounds allowed to serve
6) Cave in on the stimulus package

Want more?

[Bette Noir]

85. Wait for it....

3) is a falsehood.
4) was a campaign promise.
5) if you know any saints with government experience, let me know.
6) that's Congress, not the Prez.

1) and 2) we still don't know how the play is going to end-- we're early in the second act. You can't call it a failure until the third act curtain.

Gobama-- or, as he is known now, Mr. President.

[nichomachus]

68. "Many here" Is that like the "some people" who say things?

[InvisibleTouch]

70. Some people aren't happy unless they have something to moan about.

And they will do their damndest to find something, no matter what. Their identities are so wrapped up in seeing themselves as downtrodden victims that they just can't get out of that mode, no matter how many positive changes happen around them.

[MedfordTim]

71. Not 3 weeks...30 YEARS! It's my party and I'll whine if I want to!

There have been some "atta-boy"s accomplished, but to me they don't mean a damn thing if war crimes are not fully dragged out into the open for the world to see. It's not so much giving up as frustration with the "same ol' same ol'" aspects. I wanted impeachment and investigations in '06 - Pelosi and Reid became willing participants in the Republican game and now what's the excuse?

I'm sick of politicians getting away with stuff. Honesty should be policy, not an accident...

[ColbertWatcher]

74. "Got the ball rolling on the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships" ...

... which was a waste of time.

Good post otherwise; kick and rec.

[sohndrsmith]

75. Not ME!! : ) : ) Obama is not being the nitwit here... I think he's

doing an amazing job - considering what he's up against (and it just keeps piling up with higher hurdles and more burdens for him to deal with - this stimulus idiocy is just one of many crises that keep accumulating).

I think he's great. No one can change my mind on that. I get frustrated because there are things that even super-human capabilities are not going to be able to rectify or solve, and Obama's about as capable as we're going to get in this lifetime... but he's not magical. He's facing some wickedly unbelievable difficulties that almost make Roosevelt's problems seem breezy and gossamer.

He reminds me of the first responders who hurry towards the disaster, the danger, the threat, instead of running from it and seeking safety. He worked so hard and so artfully - to take responsibility for this mess - and that is no small feat. He's the one who's not only running into the danger - he's going first because he's promised that to the country.

I am only more impressed, not less. I don't expect him to be able to win or succeed at every turn, but my respect has only grown because of his courage and strength in taking this stuff on... he hasn't failed or let me down. No way.

Are those who are disappointed actually taking a minute to think about what he HAS done and is doing - in three weeks time? How much he's addressed, dealt with, put forth, initiated, changed, improved, managed, re-defined.... Come ON. How could anyone not honor his acuity, skill and productivity? AND he has a date night every Friday... Jeez!

I'd be disappointed if he were handed a surplus, a healthy economy, a war-free time of peace, a globally respected country with few enemies or threats, a clean and healthy earth and climate, a sane Senate, an honest financial system, happy home-owning citizens, plentiful accessible jobs and affordable high-quality health care for all and children who aren't allergic to dogs.

Then - if he couldn't hack it, or had difficulty getting something done - I might be a little bummed.

That is not our reality, though, and I'm jazzed to have the best person to lead this country than I ever could have hoped for.

If this stimulus passes, even as a wounded, weakened version of what he wanted it to be, does anyone realize the import of a new, young President getting this done just weeks after taking office?

Man, I don't get why anyone would be disgruntled with this individual. We are damn lucky to have him at the helm...

[Hekate]

76. It makes me wonder what part of "We've got your back, Barack!" they don't get...

I get tired of reading how supporters are crossing some kind of line toward creepy hero-worship and messianic complexes.

Back during the campaign SOME of us said we've got his back. (Still others never stopped fighting for their earlier candidate that didn't make it through the primaries. Ever.)

What did it mean to say we've got his back? Did it mean we had to swear allegiance and wait for him to walk across the Potomac River? I think not.

What it means then and now is to recognize that the Republican Party and its water carriers are like a pack of cornered rats: vicious, numerous, and with sharp teeth. Their fleas also carry the plague, and they have access to all the media outlets in the country. They are relentless.

What it means then and now is to scrutinize all leaks and negative information for their probable source: Republicans, Neocons, moles, and wingnut talk-show hosts. Always ask: "Who does this serve?" We KNOW that Bush left moles behind. Be very very very skeptical of unnamed sources from "inside the Administration." "Holding his feet to the fire" doesn't give anyone carte blanche to repeat RW talking points if your source is quoting unnamed sources.

Of course he'll make missteps. President Obama is as human as you and I, but he's also the smartest emeffer in the room and has good judgment.

I'm not waiting for him to walk on water or heal the sick with a touch. I'm giving him time to figure out that there is no such thing as bipartisanship with cornered rats -- but I have a feeling that this was a planned move on his chessboard. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But these are early days yet.

I've got his back.

Hekate

[Clio the Leo]

77. Yeah ... I just looked out of my window and the sky appears to be all in place...

.... it doesn't look like any part of the sky has fallen.

The bill will pass ... we'll begin to get out of this .... everything's gonna be fine.

Breathe people .... breathe. ;)

[RagAss]

82. LOL...reminds me of a Carlin line.....

"Do you think the earth gives a shit if there are any people on it?"

[HughBeaumont]

78. DON'T YA UNDERSTAND? WE'RE DOOOOOOMED, SCOOB! IT'S BEYOND SAVIN'! OMFGZ!!!!!!

Judging by the tone of some around here, it seems as if they're anticipating failure of this thing, as if they're hoping millions are thrown out on their asses and homeless, with a wide-ass smile on their faces. I think they're reasoning is then and only then will the real changes be made, even though America will suffer for the next decade because of it.

Think again. The Laissez-fail corptocracy isn't going away. The corptocracy is going to be dragged kicking and screaming into this whole thing; they may even make an attempt at a fascist coup, just like they did in 1934. They spent billions of dollars convincing themselves that this absolute failure of a system is GOING to work. Business/Econ 101 classes nationwide are indoctrinating future business leaders into this Friedman mess of a theory.

For their sakes, the black-cloud doomsday-lovers better hope America doesn't fail spectacularly. Otherwise, you're never going to see a Democratic president for as long as you live, and the boom/bubble/crash cycle that disaster capitalism is so famous for will continue . . . on and on and on, with each crash being worse than the last.

Our job right now is to constantly pound the message home that Republicans and their horrible theories and practices CAUSED ALL OF THIS. Bad Republican Policy Cannot Cure Worse Republican Policy.

I just don't get it.

[santamargarita]

81. I don't think anyone is really giving up, however...

...if we don't start grabbing these Goddamn America Hating Republicans by the throat it will be over soon.

[leftofthedial]

86. LOLLYGAGGERS!