Problem : Do trainees in Basic Training Squadrons receive the AFOUA if the Squadron receives the award? Problem Details : If a person is a trainee in a Basic Military Training Squadron for six weeks, and that six weeks is covered in an award of the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award to that squadron, does the basic trainee also qualify to wear the award?
Resolution : Sir, they do not qualify for the wear of that award, it is for the permanent party members who are there for the time of the Award.
Resolution Details : Contact Center Agent: : Mr George Henigman Agents Email Address: : [email protected] Agents Phone Number: : Toll Free 1-800-616-3775; or DSN 665-5000
Is there a spot you have the entire story of your research posted, so we can easily circulate it? We have quite a few vets in our Democratic Unity Group who will be interested in circulating this, not to mention the woman who started a Military Families for Peace group here.
And this will definitely go onto my summary of the current administration's relationship with veterans and military families, that I will be giving to my republican brother-in-law, whose father was a POW during WWII.
Thank you so much for your diligence. In fact, now I'm starting to picture you as looking just like Dookus' new dog (a darling bulldog, in case you haven't seen the pix).
It lists him as a second lieutenant. By observing the fact that he is wearing his wings in that photograph and assuming he did so legitimately, the photograph would not have been taken before November 26, 1973. He was promoted to First Lieutenant on November 7, 1970. That narrows the date, however, it does not matter when that photograph was taken during his period of service as his unit NEVER received the award while he was a member.
Like I said, it's fully documented hereon DU. Do a fucking search.
"Personel File" has a little more clout than "official record" which sounds like political BS...
So the USA Today link seems to be stuff from Bush's TANG "Personel File"...inclduing the photo with 2 LT in the corner...That seems to indicate that this picture is part of the offical record and is likely an official TANG photo...Why is that so hard for you to clarify?...you do this mountian of research - but then "shine on" anyone who dares ask for clarification...?WTF?
I would like to see some other photos of other TANG members of this period...they should be similar, right?
I really dont trust Bush or the Bush library as much as you seem too...hence my skepticism...
He was in uniform and wearing an award he did not earn. Personal or Offical photo does not matter. IT IS STILL WRONG. By the way I have ALOT of my air force photos and I can tell you that photo is official. Yes the ANG and reserve take official photos.
If it was a personal photo - I dont fault him that much...for all we know - he may have grabbed his roomates uniform - had the picuture taken for Bab's piano - and forgot about it...yeah it might bite him in the ass a bit - but not as big a deal...
If he duped the system...then he should face the music...
I wasnt saying anything against you. I was merely pointing out that is wrong either way. Trust me, as an Air Force veteran, it pisses me off to see ppl who did not earn awards, claim them for themselves. I have an AFOUA, and my unit earned it while I was part of the unit. Walt, I also find it curious why Bush wasnt wearing the basic training ribbon in that photo. All graduates of basic training are awarded this ribbon. Any thoughts?
96. Ahhhhhh, so now you're saying Bush should have been wearing the
Edited on Tue Sep-14-04 12:55 PM by Walt Starr
Basic Training Ribbon.
That would have been sort of difficult because of the following:
This ribbon was authorized by the Chief of Staff, U.S. Air Force on Oct. 12, 1980. It is awarded to U.S. Air Force service members on completion of initial accession training after Aug. 14, 1974. In Dec 1986, the criteria expanded and authorized the ribbon to anyone who was on active duty in Dec 1986, regardless of when they completed initial accession training. The ribbon was designed by the Institute of Heraldry. The ribbon has a wide center stripe of red, flanked on either side by a wide stripe of dark blue and a narrow yellow stripe edged by a narrow dark blue stripe. Authorized Device: Oak Leaf Cluster.
Nice to know you'll do anything you can to try and support Bush, though.
The picture is part of the Bush Presidential Library. You are ranting on about official TANG photo ect. What you should be asking yourself is why would the Bush Library have ANY photo of shrub, be it taken by TANG or not when he DID'T deserve the award. What is so hard to understand?
He was photographed wearing a medal he didn't earn, and released that photo to the press. In other words, he represented that he earned a medal that he did not earn. He either did it in a photograph taken by TANG or a photograph that he set up. But either way, he was photographed wearing a medal he didn't earn, and has since disseminated this false medal-wearing photo to the press, perpetuating the original lie. He is a liar and an awol coward.
...with a simple read through the case already presented... who the hell CARES if it was an official TANG photo or a personal one????
The case only requires three things.
1. Bush was photographed wearing the ribbon. So unless someone drugged him incoherent, stuck the ribbon on him without his knowledge, photographed him so they could stick him with it 30 years later in his presidential re-election campaign and then somehow got the photo into his official Guard records AND his father's presidential library in a vast illuminati-esque conspiracy Bush wore that ribbon himself.
2. No unit Bush EVER served with in a capacity which would have entitled him to wear that ribbon earned it while he was serving with them.
3. The ribbon is not authorized for temporary wear so if a unit earned it while he WASN'T serving with them he's not entitled to wear it.
All three of the above have been extensively established. Case closed. What's this serious flaw you apparently think exists but don't seem to be able to spell out or us?
28. It doesn't fucking matter WHEN the photo was taken
The facts are clear here. The units Bush was permanently assigned to earned the award for the period covering February 1, 1965 through March 31, 1966 and for the period covering October 1, 1973 through September 30, 1975.
One award was given two years prior to Bush enlisting, the other was given two years after he was discharged.
The White House is now claiming he got the award while in training. As observed by the intial post in this thread, trainees do NOT receive the award when the units they are attached to receive it because they are not permanent parties.
71. ACTIVE DUTY, ANG, AF RESERVE BASIC TRAINING IS THE SAME
Edited on Tue Sep-14-04 12:39 PM by KBlagburn
All active duty, national guard and reserve personnel go through the same training together at Lackland AFB, TX. I had several ANG and Reservist in my Basic training sqadron. The point is not vague but valid. There is no difference in training. And the point is also correct in that the only awards/ribbons a basic trainee qualifies for is the basic training ribbon and/or honor graduate ribbon and if there is a ongoing war, as is the case now, the national defence service medal.
And by the way, Walt: of all places, how the hell did UPI end up with this story? Why not AP, Reuters, or one of the major newspapers? UPI can't be trusted on something even remotely unflattering to Bush.
I did find this interesting article written by the same unbiased reporter that tried to take you to task. I don't want to call him a Bush shill or anything but...
Facts About Reserve Are AWOL From Media Coverage
Former Naval Reserve officer says many journalists are making uninformed comments about military service.
By Gene J. Koprowski
(February 11, 2004) -- Even after the White House released some of President Bush's pay records from the early 1970s, portions of the record of his military service are apparently missing. This, some in the press have averred, is suspicious. Someone powerful must be covering up something nefarious here.
Well, as a former Naval Reserve officer, I have to smile. The reality is that the guard and reserves are very flexible when it comes to scheduling drills -- especially for commissioned officers with needed skills -- and that reserve soldiers and sailors routinely make up drill dates during a particular fiscal year.
You've convinced a lot of people that Bush is wrongly wearing a ribbon. Outstanding work.
Those who question your findings just don't get it. One can raise questions about anything. How do we know the picture is really of Bush? Maybe it's a look-alike? How do we know the records you came up with are real? Are we sure the font was in use at the time of those records? How do we know you're not a Rovian plant who is setting us up for a fall? But those questions are of course absurd.
There is a clear preponderance of evidence supporting your claims, backed by many other investigations that show Bush was a low-grade, unworthy National Guardsman. At this point it is up to the right-wing to find holes in your argument, and the more they do that, the longer the issue of Bush's honor and integrity will stay afloat.
Walt, you should consider writing LTTE of the Washington Times and any other newspapers that ran that story.
Problem : Are personnel in pilot training eligible for the AFOUA? Problem Details : If a person is in undergraduate pilot training and the student squadron is awarded the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award for a period covered during their training, is the student pilot eligible to wear the AFOUA?
Resolution : Mr. Starr, you have to be actually assigned in Permanent party status, UPT and the student squardron are not permanent party.
Resolution Details : Contact Center Agent: : Ms Terri Vineyard Agents Email Address: : mailto:[email protected] Agents Phone Number: : Toll Free 1-800-616-3775; or DSN 665-5000
I just got home from phonebanking for tomorrow's Kerry rally, checked my posts, and found that RockNation posted the link I needed... THANKS! :hi:
But then I started to read the rest of this thread... what the hell is going on here???
Jeez, Walt, some of us DO appreciate the hard and intelligent work you have put into this issue. I don't understand why people insist on covering that asshole's butt day in and day out, despite the barrage of evidence that he is a lying, cheating, deserting son of a bitch!
WAIT, are you sure you didn't paint that picture of bush yourself? I once saw you with some poster paints on your desk.
Just like someone stole Killian's old typewriter, rummaged through his trash for his signatures, and created some memos that appear to discredit bush. :eyes:
This scandal-plagued president lives in a personal and ideological fantasy world. It includes his outstanding and honorable military service in time of war, but that is really just playing "dress up" with flight suits and medals, and handlers who can dress up his records.
It also includes bold and imaginative foreign and national security policies in the face of lethal challenges to the nation, but that is really just making other people die for his personal gain, and bleed on our flag so that he can wave it around in a manner befitting an Emperor Napoleon, the Napoleon you find in ward six.
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