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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:10 PM
Original message
Jim Dean says his brother would have rescheduled his trip..
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:12 PM by madfloridian
if he had been invited to the press conference today.

If he had been asked to go to that event, he would have been there, Jim Dean, the chairmans brother, noted twice in an interview.


Lei-off: Obama snubs Dean

The fact that Dean wasnt even included in Thursdays ceremonial and very public transfer of power from him to Kaine only underscored his isolation.

"The snub today was no accident," said one Dean ally. I guarantee you he would have rescheduled his trip if asked to attend. Its easy to (screw) over people when you are riding high in the polls, let's see how many people are singing his praises in six months."

Asked about Deans absence, Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt noted that the chairman was out of town and pointed to the president-elects praise in prepared remarks.

He launched a 50-state strategy that made Democrats competitive in places they had not been in years, working with my chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, to give Democrats a majority in the House for the first time in over a decade, Obama said of the Vermonter. The obligatory praise did little to placate Dean loyalists, and the mention of Emanuel, who Dean famously clashed with when Democrats took back Congress in 2006, felt like a gratuitous slap to some.


Here is more:

Its the most puzzling thing Ive ever seen in my life, added a longtime Democrat and friend of Dean, echoing the exasperation and befuddlement many close to him feel about his treatment since the election. I have tried my best through (Obama advisers) Valerie Jarrett, David Axelrod and David Plouffe to ask if he ever committed some crime. I dont get it. Hes been a good soldier.


Jim Dean appears truly upset.

Jim Dean said the past scrapes with Emanuel may be partly to blame, but, like some others close to the chairman, he was mostly mystified at the treatment.

I get grumpy about it, Dean said. In fact, I was grumpy about it over Thanksgiving and Howard pushed back and said, Look, theyre not going do everything for everybody.

He understands this is a grown-up business.


I think it almost goes without saying that the reason he has been almost ignored in spite of the four years or hard loyal work....is that Dean is and has been too partisan for this administration. He has spoken out too often and actually tried to differentiate between our party and the GOP.

There's a paragraph at Rolling Stone today that shows the "post partisan" the new "bipartisan" mindset that says we will not be that different from the other party. Just one short paragraph.

Heres hoping Dean lands somewhere quiet and consequential, where his over-the-horizon thinking can be leveraged and his unsmooth demeanor will matter not.

Rolling Stone


I am partisan, I intend to remain so. I am pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro labor, and I don't believe religion should play such a prominent role in our politics. I am the very opposite of our new party chairman.

I intend to remain that way. I know that if we keep trying to become good buddy buddies with the other party....we will lose our base. And we will lose the elections next time around because people will stay home.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. It really is mystifying - maybe the big egos on the Obama team feel threatened.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Threatened by what? Obama, Axelrod and Plouffe are responsible for
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:16 PM by Kahuna
Obama's strategy and win. If you have evidence yo the contrary you should present it. Otherwise you're just doing a whole lot of assuming.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. So the big egos want to hoard all the credit?! lol
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:18 PM by polichick
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. LOL is not a substitute for proof. nt
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:20 PM by Kahuna
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Proof of what? My original statement didn't require proof of anything.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Proof that Obama feels threatened by Dean. That is what you asserted..
And you have no proof of that.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I said "maybe" as in "perhaps" or "could be" - no definitive statement...
...thus, no proof needed. Try again. :)
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. It's very immature and petty to speculate about people and things
that you do not know.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Not in the least - just try not to feel threatened by it.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
106. Congratulations.
You've just been red-herringed. There's a lot of it going around. I got straw-manned just yesterday.

Best way to avoid it.

Step One: Don't voice your opinion.

Step Two: Buy some pom poms.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #106
130. Sometimes I can't resist messing with posters like that....
Kuhuna melted down later in the thread but I see that section has been deleted. Funny stuff!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
227. Might as well close down this forum, then.
Discussions are full of speculation; isn't that the point, really? To try on and try out ideas, opinions, viewpoints? To...speculate on who did what, and why, and how?

And I doubt most of us "know" --as in, personally-- the public figures discussed in this forum.

If all we want is a recitation of facts, we can sit passively and read a newspaper (taking care to avoid the opinions and editorializing contained therein).
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. The VOTERS are responsible for his win.
Without the enthusiasm of the voters he would not be president.

Dean kept many of us on board in 2004 when we felt hopeless about the way. We stayed and we worked and we cared.

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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. A lot of people voted for Obama. Not just Dean people. You don't see
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:22 PM by Kahuna
the rest of them having the vapors and feigning a snub.

On edit: You like all voters had two choices. McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden. Would you have voted for McCain if Dean were not the DNC chair? Get real.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. There's a third option.
Staying home.

Get real.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Same as voting for McCain/Palin. Maybe next time. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
36. Yes, you are right. Same as giving it away.
.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
56. No, our real choice was between Clinton and Obama...
and don't tell me you believe that the DLC vote
pushed Obama over the top.

:eyes:
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
129. Hillary Clinton = SOS. No snub there --
and she almost cost him the election. Dean created the 50-state strategy which got Obama elected, and pointed out there is a difference between a Republican and a Democrat. He gets 'replaced' with no other position offered.

He probably wants to spend time with his family. :eyes:

Its politics as usual in Washington.
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
141. The voters had 2 choices in the primaries

Obama or Clinton. Obama used Dean's 50 state strategy to beat Clinton. Howard Dean deserves
full credit for that strategy. I doubt Plouffe is happy about the snub. And it was a snub.

I feel a little sick in my stomache about it too. Here you have Obama inviting Rick Warren to
participate in the inauguration, yet snubbing Dean at the DNC transition of power event. The
fact that they (Obama and Kaine) didn't take any questions says a lot.

This is NOT "bringing people together"- at least the right people.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
184. Dean is a great inspiration to the grass-roots. He and his people
were organizing when others were depressed and sitting at home sighing. Long live Howard Dean. This is another Hillary Clinton behind the scenes maneuver. Obama is going to regret allowing the Clintons to bring in so many of their allies. It's not smart on his part. It makes him look a little uncertain and dependent on her and on Bill -- not good.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Raum Emanuel is now chief of staff, and he's been
a big detractor and nemesis of Dean's for many years now. Every chance Emanuel had, he complained that everything Dead did was wrong and was going to ruin the party.

Don't you think Emanual might be behind this? As chief of staff he's got more pull than anyone else on Obama's staff.

And, Obama went out of his way to deliberately give them both Shared credit for all the big congressional wins that Emanual had nothing substantial to do with. So Obama is clearly clearly treading lightly on Emanual's toes and going along with his chief of staff.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Rahm had nothing to do with?? Are you kidding??? It was Rahm's
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:29 PM by Kahuna
job to recruit candidates and run election strategy. I'm not trying to take anything from Dean. He did a fantastic job as DNC chair. But there were many players that brought about our victories. I don't see anybody having fits because they all are being recognized.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Only 9 or 35 of them won.
The others started out as grassroots candidates who later maybe got support.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. 9 is part of that total. The point is, Dean by himself didn't win control
of congress or the presidency.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. No one said he did.
No one ever said that.

Obama has totally snubbed him, and DU is in total denial.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. My reply is in post 28. nt
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
185. Not only was Dean's strategey was more succesful that Emanuel's
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 04:01 PM by dflprincess
in getting more Democrats elected; it also got more progressives elected and Rahm would rather lose than get anything but a DLCer elected or admit his strategey wasn't the best.




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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Rahm abandoned a lot of states, and bashed Dean for
supporting efforts in all 50 states. Rahm was famously in favor of concentrating everything we had on only a few swing states.

Rahm only selected candidates in a few select states. Dean made sure there were candidates come up from the grass roots in all 50.

That's where Dean deserves the credit, and Obama is giving that credit to Emanual. And Emanual is the likely source of Dean being left out of everything now. He's not about to start including the person he's been bashing for 8 years.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Maybe so. I'll give you that. But you still don't know what the source
of the friction is between Obama and Dean, and if any exists. Is it possible that Dean is the one who doesn't like Obama? Could be.

My thoughts are that if there is any friction, it probably stems from the primary battles and the behind the scene haggles over FL and MI and the rules. That's just my suspicion. Not worth any more than yours. :hi:
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Dean's decisions in the primaries Benefited Obama.
There is no reason for friction between them over that. If anything, you would think those decisions would help him get a position in the current administration.

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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. I'm just saying. I don't know and you don't know. Obama doesn't
hold grudges as a rule. So I can't think of any reason for Obama to snub Dean.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Neither can I. But Emanuel is know for his grudges.
That's why I think Emanuel is behind this, not Obama.
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onefreespiritedchick Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #57
101. Rahm probably...I tend to agree on this one. n/t
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #48
186. How do you know Obama doesn't hold grudges?
You're not speculating, are you?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
109. I agree. One gets the DEFINITE impression that Rahm Emanuel is not a
person who takes it well when he perceives he has been crossed. His perception is all that matters.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #109
197. The phrase "Dead to us!!!" comes to mind
A steak knife slashing repeatedly into a dinner table. No, it's certainly not a stretch to say that Rahmbo is an unforgiving, vengeful little man.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #32
117. Right -- long years of Dems NOT contesting Repug candidates --!!!
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 01:32 AM by defendandprotect
DEAN reversed that stupidity which made life luxurious for Repug Party --

and Dems contested AND won--!!!
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Yeah, he recruited many anti- choice candidates who either didn't win
or now fail to really represent the Democratic Party. GOP lite are not Democratic candidates and that is what Rahm brought to the table.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #34
118. Agree --
Just more of DLC moving Dem Party to the right --!!!
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
142. To give Emanuel credit was a stab in the back

I stand with Dean. This is not going to go over well. I hope Obama sweeps this cockiness under the rug
quickly. I'm unpleasantly surprised.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
165. I agree with Rahm being behind it. He attempted to undermine the 50 state strategy.
This snub is reprehensible! Howard Dean got so many of us active. Bet you can't think of any DLC types that can do the same. Emanuel has always seemed opportunistic and sleazy to me. I am still hoping Obama placed him where he is as a way to defuse his power and shenanagins.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
148. Axelrod and Plouffe were lucky- just as Obama has been throughout his career
Thing about luck is that eventually it runs out.

They ran a losing campaign throughout the summer and into September against the most inept Republicans in 40+ years and the most unpopular president in modern history.

Up and until the financial meltdown- they were behind in the polls-

Had the economy limped along- and had the Republicans run competent nominees, we'd all very likely be singing a different tune at the moment. That despite the long Democratic primaries and voter registration efforts.

Under the circumstances wouldn't be too quick to laud Axelrod, Plouffe and Gibbs as some sort of geniuses.

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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
158. " Obama, Axelrod and Plouffe are responsible
for Obama's strategy Period. If Dean had not established AND funded the 50 state strategy, there would have been no win. This crap w/ squeezing Dean out is strictly rahm & the dlc's influence. Kaine's (a dlcer) appointment underscores that.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #158
187. Blame Rahm and the DLC all you want
but technically, Obama is head of the party, and he sure appears to be going along with this.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #158
228. Are you saying Obama is a wimp who is pushed around by a guy who
he hired to be his Chief of Staff? A guy who was subordinate to him while he was a Senator in the IL delegation?

I think Obama's the boss. Not Rahm Emmanuel. I think Obama's calling the shots. Not Rahm Emmanuel.

Rahm won't be taking the oath on the twentieth, now, will he? He'll be carrying the bags of the guy who is taking the oath.

I also don't think "The DLC" is pushing Obama around, either.

Obama knows what he wants. The direction the party is taking is a result of his desires and directives. Why people had an idea that Obama would be some great, progressive liberal, I have no idea. He was always a centrist. He never made a secret of it, when he was pinned down, anyway. He tried to stay as vague as he could manage, and consequently some people overlaid their OWN politics on him, but this is the guy who has all along said he believes marriage is the sanctified union between a man and a woman, who went to Israel and made the remarks about defending oneself if anyone lobbed rockets at his two little girls, who had a longer timeline than Clinton for exiting Iraq, who gushed about Petraus...I mean--come on. The guy is going to be far and away better than Bush, but he's no screaming liberal, and he never has been.

And he's not a puppet of "The Dark Forces of The Evil DLC," or Rahm Emmanuel, or anyone else. He's the BOSS. He is large and in charge. This is HIS show, and no one else's. Efforts to slough the blame off on others only infantalizes the man and suggests that he is a tool, a front-man, a nitwit. He's not that. He knows what he wants, and he's taking steps to get it.
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
170. That strategy wouldn't have been without...
Dean's 50 State strategy, and a nation full of left leaning people that volunteered for him. The majority of his volunteers were in place by the end of the primaries. They were there because of the message he was sending out THEN. He has been going right ever since.

But, we all stuck with him, and now we're all getting stuck.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
175. Obama wouldn't have come close if it weren't for the 50 State Strategy.
There's no excuse for you or anyone else to deny that Dean deserves equal credit with Axelrod and Plouffe.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
179. Dean's fifty state strategy came first and supplemented Obama's
machine as it organized. This is a stain against Obama that this man is so marginalized. He put my state in play for blue. I love Howard Dean. I hope they don't unravel his work. Fuck Rahm Emannuel and the others if they do that.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
139. Howard Dean is the Rodney Dangerfield of Politics
but those who support him are not phased. We know he's the real thing, he knows it, time will rectify the situation. There's a lot of young men on steep learning curves right now.

Our respect for him means a lot, you know.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #139
209. I'm wondering what Dean will do next. It will be geniuinely progressive, that's for sure.
Not just sort of giving lip service to progressive ideas like some.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
164. I rather doubt that. I think that maybe Team Obama doesn't reward
excessive partisanship overmuch--to include those who were partisan towards Obama, when their role, really, was to be even-handed. Dean was partisan towards Obama in the allocation of votes in MI, and while that worked out well for Obama, they probably figure they don't need someone who just might decide, based on principle, to be partisan against them in future.

I also think Team Obama doesn't reward perceived disloyalty. That's why Richardson got Commerce instead of SECSTATE or UN Ambassador. Of course, it's a good thing he was placed so far down the food chain, since he had to leave (or maybe he used his little scrape as an excuse, since Commerce is likely to be a thankless job for the next few years).

This isn't a case of big egos amongst subordinates. Obama is in charge. He's not being pushed around, or persuaded, or conned--he's making final decisions and he has a Big Picture in mind.

He has qualities in mind that he wants on his team, and Dean, apparently, doesn't have what he wants. He's making it very clear, though, by not having him at this shindig, that Dean is "cut out of the herd."

There's probably an opening for him at a think tank--maybe the nonpartisan Panetta Institute will hire him?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #164
188. Dean wasn't being partisan about Michigan
he was following the rules all candidates had agreed to before some candidates decided they wanted the rules changed when things didn't go their way.

Not unlike Coleman agreeing to one set of rules in the Minnesota recount and now crying foul and trying to get the rules changed after the fact.

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #188
223. Well, we don't know what was said or done behind the scenes.
All I know is that the Obama crew is doing the opposite of rewarding Howard Dean. That's pretty plain. A boot up his ass is what he's getting from them.

And actions generally have consequences in political and public life, so quite likely Howard's actions did not meet the approval of the incoming team...and this is his "reward."
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #223
226. Oh, I agree with you the Dean is being treated badly
I just disagreed about the Michigan comment; there I think he applied the rules that had been agreed to.

No doubt Dean is perceived as "too liberal" by Obama and his DLC buddies. I think he may also be perceived as a threat and so must be marginalized and ignored. It is not impossible that the progressive wing of the party may will be looking for a candidate in 2012 and Dean would certainly be on that list.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
182. The Obama team lacked sensitivity on this one. Dean has a lot, a lot, a lot
of supporters. And Dean's supporters are very active. This was a big mistake. The Democracy for America people are all over. I was active, very active in that for a while, and I admire Dean's ideas about inclusiveness and his 50-state strategy. Huge mistake by Obama. This will loom over his presidency. Obama has the right to name Dean's successor, but he should not have snubbed Dean in this way.

I wonder if McAuliffe was behind this. Dean's successes made McAuliffe's failures all the more apparent.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is such a phony story
and a bunch of anonymous quotes from people too cowardly too go on the record.

There are serious problems in this country right now in case anybody hasn't noticed. We don't have time to worry about who did or did not ask someone to the prom.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, Jim Dean is a really big phony.
:eyes:
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
124. Furthermore, we can hold more concerns than one at a moment.
It's my party, I have a right to care about the "little" things and the big things.

Get real.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Jim Dean's a Good Brother
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:17 PM by Crisco
This country's politics have been controlled by the South for so long, Washington has forgotten what it's like to have someone go Yankee on your ass and call 'bullshit.' In the longer run, it doesn't help Howard, but it shows who has his back.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Nothing can help Howard Dean now. Not in this party.
There's so much more to it, and it may all come out or not.

Far as I'm concerned he can make a boat load of money on speeches and not have to put up with crap.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:38 PM
Original message
Considering the Email I Just Got
From Mr. Chamberlain - and I imagine you did, too - suddenly one wonders if there isn't a little behind-the-scenes action DC Dems would like to see shut down, that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
211. What e-mail did you get? I certainly didn't get an e-mail from a Chamberlain.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
120. Seems there's very little room in Dem Party ...
For liberals, progressives and Howard Dean ---??

Would Rahm really be happier without us--????
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
155. Hint please?
I thought this snub was because the DLC is back with both guns loaded. They were out of favor during the brief time the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party was in charge, now that we are back to single party rule and they want no part of Dean.

Is there more than meets the eye?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. He doesn't look upset
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:26 PM by ProSense
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I know I am not upset at all.
From what I am seeing of the party right now.....he is well out of it.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
189. Well he hasn't had time to read up on his treatment at DU

Because all of the details are well known here and Obama is well known for being a coarse ungrateful son of a bitch who likes to embarass and overlook people.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #189
194. Not Obama -- Rahm.
The sooner Obama loses that coarse ungrateful son of a bitch the better.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #194
215. Rahm hasn't been involved in this at all

Kaine had a meeting with Plouffe in Washington DC and was called to Chicago to have a personal meeting with Obama after he apparently indicated he did not want the job.

Rahm is on the policy/government side not the DNC political side.


What is interesting to note is not only was Dean was not there but neither was Plouffe. This is being scripted. Its not an accident and all of the actors are playing the role that Obama has laid down for them.


All of them are in agreement but uninformed observers keep putting words in their mouth.


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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #215
219. You may be right. nt
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. IMO, Obama doesn't want to appear with Howard Dean because
Dean is viewed by some as too "out there" or too liberal. The MSM tried to portray Dean as a left-wing screaming nut job. I don't think Obama wants to be associated with him because Obama wants to govern toward the center and not be accused of being liberal in any way. It's similar to when Obama didn't want to be photographed with Mayor Gavin Newsom.

By the way, I love Howard Dean and think he did a great job as chairman. I am dismayed that he is being treated this way, but I guess that's politics. It just seems like Dean did a lot to help democrats and Obama, and now he is being frozen out. I don't think Dean expected it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Nail on head. Obama doesn't want to appear with anyone...
who isn't conservative. who isn't "smooth". who isn't loved by the media.

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
190. You forgot "pragmatic"
though I prefer "politically expedient".
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #190
225. Politically correct.
Carefully spoken...the way our Democrats want it now. I want to hear some speaking out, some outrage over the things Bush has done.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. I don't think that's it. I have no idea what if any friction there is between
Obama and Dean. I'm not willing to say there isn't any. What I do know is, I have no idea what the source of any friction is, so I'm not going to indulge in mindless speculation.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Why not bypass threads like this if you're "not going to indulge...
...in mindless speculation?" You're full of shit.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. And you're off your meds. nt
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Oh, good comeback. Hopefully you'll skip all the "speculation" threads...
...in the future and we won't have to kick your sorry ass.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Ten of your ilk couldn't kick my ass. The day you think you can....nt
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #53
126. That day has come, meet the bigger fish. nt
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #49
125. Why post something like that? It is extremely hostile. nt
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Gosh, if this is true, Obama is quite the chickenshit.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Every single day, you have something nasty to say about Obama.
Tomorrow it will be something else. I'm beginning to enjoy your discomfort with Obama. It's quite entertaining. :)
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. You'll have to read more carefully - and bone up on comprehension skills.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. I will be sure to remind you tomorrow when you launch your next attack. nt
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Where's today's attack??
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. Yeah and Rick Warren is his spiritual representation
Fuck the religious right. YEAH HOWARD DEAN IS THE REAL THREAT. I am so glad Obama thinks that CNN propaganda is the absolute truth. WHAT A LEADER HE IS!!!!!!! So courageous. So UNIFYING as long has he doesn't have to be associated with those loud nasty liberals.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
163. It's amazing to me that he would avoid Dean but embrace Warren
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 12:30 PM by Lorien
that signals that he wants to govern from the center-right, where the political compass has always placed him anyway www.politicalcompass.org . Personally I'm getting really sick of Democrats working to marginalize liberals and reject liberal views. That send the message to all people that liberal ideas have no value and that liberals don't deserve a place at the table. And what's a non liberal? It's a conservative. We don't see any members of the GOP running madly away from THEIR base.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #163
177. Oh so true!
And republicans never would run from their supposed base. Why? Because they comprehend the idea of populism. Even if it is pseudo-populist religious pap (or maybe pseudo-religious populist pap).

Somehow the idiots in the DLC think that people don't like partisan politics and have an aversion to anything that can be construed as 'class warfare.'
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. So what now? Dean's brother said he was snubbed...so now what?
Cancel the inauguration? Throw in the towel, the Democratic party is ruined? I hope he wasn't snubbed. I can't understand why he would have been.

He's not the entire party and he will be fine.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Hey, fine with me.
Hubby and I figure we are saving a couple of hundred a month now. And lots of time not trying to change a party that is not ready for change.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. I'm glad you can save some money...I'm pretty busted...me and hubbies jobs went to India..
But, I'll donate what I can, and keep writing letters and calling and making sure my representatives know I'm watching every vote. That's the only way we'll get anything done. I could never quit especially before the guys I voted for are in office.

I support my President and I want all the Dems to do well and make some improvements. No one incident will throw me even when I'm pissed off. I'll yell and scream at him and my congress folks. I can't bite my nose off to spite my face.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
59. You misunderstand what we do.
We will donate to those who stand up for what we believe Democrats should stand for.

That is what we did through DFA until the candidates got to congress and voted with the conservatives.

We still donate to those who stand up for real people and ideals we believe in. But we are more careful now.

I see no need to donate to a party that snubbed the man who got us started in politics.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. Dupe.
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 10:00 PM by madfloridian
deleted dupe
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
212. Obama will run into hurdles he can't jump. Every president does.
He will need Dean's supporters, and they will be busy working on projects with Dean. Obama won't have their support when he needs it. This makes me fell very cautious about spending time on Obama campaigns. Think of how much Dean worked to get Democrats into Congress and to prepare the way for a Democratic candidate (regardless who), and this is his thanks? Obama owes Dean a huge apology for this snub. This is inexcusable. It is rude. Very stupid.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. Sometimes a snub is a snub and sometimes it has nothing to do with a snub
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 09:38 PM by dmordue
sometimes the world really isn't revolving around us and other events and circumstances are at play.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. A horse is a horse of course of course and no one can talk to a horse of course
Sorry, don't know why my mind went there. :)
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
43. Jim Dean should shut up and concentrate on making sausage.
What?




Oh ...




Never mind.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. That's Jimmy. :)
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Ummm, I know. Did you read the post?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I was just teasing you.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Oh, my bad. (I should either watch the football game or try to post.)
:hi:
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #43
178. Making sausage and singing that song about that big man who had the mine fall on him. :-)
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
58. post-partisan and bipartisan sound like same GOP shit with new cherry on top
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Yes, it is the very same recycled....
stuff.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
61. Read this from some Vermont site
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=9641688

Democrats with knowledge of the situation said Dean has clashed with Obama aides and Democratic leaders in Congress and had been asked by Obama advisers not to attend.

We asked the DNC what is in the future for Howard Dean and so far have had no reply.

~


(Also apprently has the only photo we will see of Obama with Dean.)
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Wow! That is so wrong.
:cry:
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onefreespiritedchick Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
98. I am still baffled by this
And, greatly disappointed. Dean deserved so much better than this. I hope someone makes it up to him.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #61
220. Damn, I thought the pettiness was coming from Rahm (and was corrected up thread)
This is well beneath anything I expected from Obama.

Post-partisan does NOT mean insulting your base, no matter who you are courting now.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
62. Are we ready for the "Progressive Party" yet?


We are listing so far to the
right we are in danger of
tipping over.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Cool picture!
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Took me a while to find it....most ships seem to list LEFT!!
:rofl:

I guess I could have flopped one, but I'm LAZY!
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I only WISH ours listed left! :)
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. You said it!
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #62
110. Do you think this country is ready..
to participate in a Democracy?
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #110
135. I think they are paying attention now.
That's half the battle.

If anyone can get them off the couch,
it's Howard Dean.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #62
145. No, we are not
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #62
221. Yes, we are.
Well past ready although it's most likely already too late.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
67. This is why Dean matters....
Heres hoping Dean lands somewhere quiet and consequential, where his over-the-horizon thinking can be leveraged and his unsmooth demeanor will matter not.

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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
69. More Fake Outrage
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. Right.
The kind of fake outrage that will lose the next election for us. The kind of fake outrage that started with Warren....and has escalated.

Right. Keep calling it fake.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #70
90. Yes. Its the kind of weak petty nonsense. That always causes rifts in this party
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 11:08 PM by BrentTaylor
which is why they don't stay in power long. All this outrage just acts as fodder for the media to push for a week.

Dean was on Hardball yesterday and he didn't feel snubbed or dissed.

Turning small issues into unnecessary Big Rifts.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-12-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #70
232. How many Congressional seats do we stand to lose because Dean's ego is bruised?
:shrug:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Why are you calling everything "fake"? By definition you mean people are NOT 'outraged'?
They are sitting in front of their computers smiling and happy and content and decide to post "phony" disagreements? I don't get it.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #72
107. He just wanted to use the word "fake"
Words don't mean anything when you really don't have an argument, so people pile on the loaded words because they "feel" it makes their point.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #107
195. You --
I like. And I logged in specifically (on dialup!) to tell you that. :hi:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
71. Ahhhhhh, the Democratic party.............
The one thing we excel at is eating each other alive.

:eyes:

But at least it is all highly amusing.

:popcorn:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Let's hear all the laughter come 2010 and 2012.
You can only denigrate your own for so long before they are no longer fooled.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. What can I say?
I had my fill of the party leadership during the primaries. Kennedy, Kerry, Dean, Pelosi, Carter, et al., all wanted Obama. Well, they got him.

:shrug:

I will never again give a dime to the DNC nor hold fundraisers, and neither will my family. I will only actively support my local and state candidates. I learned my lesson.

:(
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. No, all Dean did was use fair tactics and stand by the rules.
That is the kind of stuff we need to get over.

A party of which 50% thinks he would cheat to win is not one for me.

You are accusing him of dishonesty and it is not right.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I remember how you felt about the FL delegates.
I felt differently. I thought that FL should have been seated as it was and that MI should have had a revote. So no, I'm not enamored of Dean and I find this whole thing about whether he was dissed by Obama or not highly amusing.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. My state broke the rules with the blessing of the Clintons.
They shunned my hubby and me when we stood up for Dean...the locals did.

Until that time I could have just as easily voted for Hillary.

They manipulated my state and they manipulated the party, and they are now back in power. Just like they were before.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #78
87. I see it differently.
I see a party leadership that didn't want a revote in either state because it had already made up its mind who should be the nominee.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. I think it it nice you find it amusing. There are several here who do.
I went through hell in the primaries, but I told the truth. Hillary and Bill encouraged two states to break the primary rules and then blamed Dean. A sneaky trick.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #81
88. Well, plenty of us went through hell during the primaries
if for different reasons.

:shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. But many of did not advocate for breaking rules to win.
The former chairman is paying dearly now for standing by the rules.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Take it up with Obama,
it's not the Clintons who are dissing him.

:eyes:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #93
99. Ah....there's a litlte disconnect in that thinking.
I don't want to invite too much more right now, but if carried to its logical conclusion...
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #75
156. Obama won the battle, but Hillary won the war
The new administration is more Clinton than Clinton's would have been.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #156
157. Maybe,
but in the process they eviscerated the Clintons and spit them out like old news. I'm talking about people who they helped throughout the years. I saw one after the other turn their backs on them for the new guy in town. The Clintons raised over $100M for other candidates from 2001 to 2006. Hillary alone raised $51M for some of the same people who stabbed her in the back.

And don't get me started on the repugnant way that the media and LW blogs treated them during the primaries.

So, as far as I'm concerned, they can all go to hell!!!!!!!

;(
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #156
169. They are on the same side - Obama drank your milkshake
as he did all the Clinton-hating fools who sought to use him as a bludgeon.

Instead, he used you. Deal with it.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #75
159. Pelosi said she would go with the candidate that got the most
regular delegates - which was why some of the web sites tracked what they called the "Pelosi number" which was the number of delegates who took a similar position. Dean was neutral and never favored one over the other in any statement.

Kerry and Kennedy did endorse Obama early - after just Durbin. At that point in time, Hillary had FAR more superdelegates endorse her - including every elected official in NJ except Codey, who endorsed Edwards and Lautenberg who I think stayed neutral. There were many people who were pushed by Bill Clinton to endorse HRC.

It is beyond absurd to complain about the "party leadership" endorsing Obama - HRC had Bill Clinton and most of his allies. (I don't forget that as soon as Kerry lost, Clinton allies made it clear that he was not a party leader - though he had earned the right to be one.
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EraOfResponsibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
79. whew! this instrument is getting heavy...*plays violin* n/t
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
80. I don't understand why Dr Dean is not getting the proper respect from Obama.
I suspect Rahm Emmanuel is the problem. Emmanuel keeps trying to take credit for Dr. Dean's work.
I think that stinks and it is another reason I can not stand Emmanuel at all.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. There are other reasons.
Not just Rahm, but he is one of the reasons. Look back at the primaries. Think about it.

Others will figure it out soon enough.
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EraOfResponsibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. What are the reasons?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Read and think who is in power positions.
I am afraid our party is right back in the hands of the insiders who will not listen to those of us who are "sctivists", "liberals", or whatever names they use.

Updated list of my journal postings about the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Democrats invade Georgia
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Dean told not to plan a vacation in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Court decision on March 17 could determine who Democratic nominee is.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Democrats thought they would only lose "half" the delegates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Dean says FL and MI would not negotiate with the DNC...took it public
instead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida, Michigan and the Jackasses That Over-reached
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Tampa op ed: "Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Terry McAuliffe wants to change horses in the middle of the stream.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary
bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Jeremy Ring (D-FL) said "relevance is more important than "partying" in
Denver.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The worst part is that this very day FL Dems still shift blame....
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Is Hillary's campaign being run as a "shadow DNC" for her benefit?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

More Florida shenanigans and more insults to Dean from that state.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's
rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a
"voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the
DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to
let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local
email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in
chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument
here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone
call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to
Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had
to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I
must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary
that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get
near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...




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EraOfResponsibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Ok, so have you written anyone, figured out how to deal with this? n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
104. Oh, yeh!
I have.

No answers.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #86
115. AGREE ...
but they had to try to hide it from us --

and DLC'ers here are still trying to both hide from the truth ---

and convince us we're just judgmental and "pounding" Obama for no reason!!!

We're a threat to them and they have to be thinking about it ---

how do we create leverage on the Democratic Party that wants to ignore us?

How are gays planning to keep heat on for one thing?





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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #86
143. This is so sad. Obama won and you're still fighting the primary wars.
I worked for Obama in Florida, as did many of my friends who supported Clinton in the primaries. They worked just as hard as the rest of us and were very magnanimous in their support.

And yet, you spend all this time writing posts almost every day, that are designed just to offend them. Their candidate lost and they got over it. Your candidate lost in 2004 and you still believe that his supporters should be the only ones in charge of the Democratic Party.

You don't want Clinton supporters in the Florida Democratic Party. You don't want Democrats from North Florida to have a voice in the Party. You don't think it fair that the Obama people might want their folks in charge of the Florida Party, even though they figured a out a way to win in a state where other Democrats haven't. You only want Howard Dean supporters in the Democratic Party.

So, you repeat every possible statement critical of Obama, and get all kinds of responses from those who feel that Obama is too centrist, too "DLC". Which seems a little unfair when Howard Dean was quite a moderate candidate whose positions would have been considered "DLC".

I supported Dr. Dean in 2004. So, I remember that he talked about wanting to be the candidate for 'guys with confederate flags on their pickup trucks'.

Does that sound like a group of 'activists' or 'liberals' that you're constantly complaining that Obama is leaving out?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #80
112. DLC ... agree --
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
83. How does Dean feel about it himself?
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
84. "...working with my chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel"
I see.. according to the spokesman, it was *mostly* the work of Emmanuel that really made the 50-state strategy work! lol
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #84
91. They both deserve credit. Rahm was responsible for finding the candidates
for 06. Don't act like it was all Dean
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. I'm not saying it was all Dean
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 11:21 PM by Moochy
That passage just jumped out as me as reminiscent of the attempts by Emanuel's camp to claim all credit for the 06 victories. Whatever :)

Just one of these guys is a shameless self promoter, one of them isn't. I'm actually quite glad that Emanuel is no longer in the legislature, and will be using his special skills to herd democratic cats.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. That's not the point, but here's some date for you.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bloggers discredited the wild claims of Rahm that he won it all by himself. I think they found only four races might have been impacted with more money.....and he had already thrown half a million in one of those against a fellow Democrat.

I am looking for that post now, but the link above has good info.

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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. It wasn't so much the money. Rahm recruited the
candidates. Why can't we give him credit for that at the same time praising Dean for his 50 state strategy?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. No one has denied him credit that I know of.
Of course Rahm deserves some credit, of course.

But Dean never pretended it was just him, and nothing was going on until Carville went on TV and said Dean was incompetent. It was later proved he was wrong, but he never backed down and he implicated the Clintons and Rahm in with his efforts.

Carville lets stuff slip to GQ about the Clintons and Rahm.

They had their chance to correct Carville, but he remained close to all of them throughout the primary season and even now.

Dean does not deserve to be shuttled aside like he has been.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #102
140. I used to like Carville
until that comment about Dean.
Carville still has a pre-Internet view of political campaigns, and has failed to grasp the power shift. Raising corporate money for TV ads is akin to chiseling a message in stone.
Cave dwelling political campaigns don't work. Obama took Dean's template and adopted it to work with the old model. We are in a transition period as to how information is disseminated.
Although TV still reaches the vast majority, the Internet and the TV remote have made prior campaign strategies obsolete.
Carville's approach to winning 50 plus one percent became defunct with electronic voting, as Republicans own the secret code for vote tabulating. Democrats need 50 plus six to win with the current system.
Carville has failed to recognize the shift and, although talented, is headed for the dust bin with his wife.
The DNC leadership should be three pronged: Corporate fund raising, Grass/Net roots activism, and coordinating/organizing the two to establish a unified simple message with which the masses can identify.
By and large we have the same goals for our government. The methods of reaching those goals is where we butt heads.
Emanuel is a hard headed strong arm politician and does serve a purpose in the big picture.
As for the Grass/Net roots: They're not going to vote Republican, but they will not be contributing with their money or efforts if ignored.
The real trick is balancing both approaches.
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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
94. is there a re-alignment of the parties happening? Like it did in the 1950s and 60s when
the Dixiecrats stated leaving because of integration--and moved into the Republican Party. It seems to me that the new economic plan is supply side economics, and that the Democratic party is increasingly courting the religious right.
At the same time the pro-choice Republicans and Log Cabin Republicans I know of seem newly energized--they think things may be opening up for them in their party.

I sometimes forget that the Democratic Party had once been the home of the Southern segregationists



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #94
116. hmmmmm........
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 01:28 AM by defendandprotect
Interesting post . ..

But Dixiecrats are like our blue dogs = DINO's

They fought an end to Segregation a long way while housed in GOP which supposedly

developed "Southern Strategy" .... Carter carried all but one Confederate state!

I don't buy "Southern Strategy" and think it was just a cover for steals which go

back to 1959 with both lever machines and then electronic voting machines.

The big computer counters used by MSM to track votes were also used fraudulently.

Here's the story ..

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Rethink Humphrey vs Nixon ... no longer believe in Nixon win --


Re the religious right, I think some were moving on their own ... waking up --

but, true, Democrats are caving to "compromise" re reproductive freedom --

financing "abstinence" programs--!!!

REMEMBER that GOP gave "start up" money to Christian Coalition to reinforce underpinning

for patriarchy, i.e., "We don't say that women and gays are inferior -- God says it-!"

Democrats/Obama will now be funding patriarchal religion with our tax dollars--!!!


What you may be saying is simply that Democratic Party has been successfully co-opted

by DLC who work to move party to the right ...

While neo-cons are fleeing a sinking ship to a more neo-con-like Democratic Party?




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #94
171. Yes, I think so.
If ours is going to become religion oriented like the GOP....then there will be a realigning.

If ours is going to be more worried about what the Republicans think than about what their own party activists think...there will be problems.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
95. i just don't get it....
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #95
105. I don't either, but I'm sure we will get to the bottom of it soon enough.
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fadedrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
103. K & R
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
108. K&R for Howard Dean!!!
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 12:02 AM by BrklynLiberal
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
111. Howard Dean retains the confidence of the public ....
Given the many questions about Obama's "Prez-elect" appointments --

from Larry Summers to Guptka -- Gates -- and many more -- much

of the public is wondering ...

while keeping fingers crossed!!!

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
113. Pago Pago or bust!
I thought Jimmy Dean was a sausage guy,
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
114. I have seen Obama demonstrate nothing but grace.
I think people are reading what they want out of the scant information available. After observing Obama over the past few years, I'll need some evidence that Obama who has demonstrated tremendous grace over the campaign (in fact, some would say he's gracious to a fault ;)) is guilty of the rudeness he is being accused of here.

In time, this story will unfold.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #114
180. from the same article, the accusation is "....according to Dean loyalists."
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 03:15 PM by AtomicKitten
I'm not finding actual evidence that substantiates the accusation.

:shrug:

The conspicuous absence of Howard Dean from Thursdays press conference announcing Tim Kaines appointment as Democratic National Committee chairman was no accident, according to Dean loyalists.
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
119. And here, some of us were getting lambasted for suggesting such today... n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
121. The ironic thing about snubs....
the snubee, usually comes out ahead in the long run.. Dr Dean is a big man..he knows he "did good"..and that's its own reward to people like him

Jimmy Carter was snubbed completely at the convention, but I doubt he lost sleep over it..

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #121
122. Dean's gonna make money making speeches and doing forums.
It is those of us who worked so hard because we thought we mattered that will be hurting.

He will be fine.

We are saving a lot of money now by stopping donations. I look back and wonder why we thought our meager efforts really mattered in the overall picture.

:shrug:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #121
133. Perhaps Jimmy Carter was very hurt; we don't know, do we?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #133
146. If HE was not, I'd bet that Roslyn was.. I would have been pissed
But Jimmy never struck me as a petty man, and he probably shrugged it off..
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
123. This is one of the sadder stories I have read on DU. nt
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
127. Snubbed indeed.
Howard Dean, a representative for the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party, is one of the most principled people I`ve ever known. He says what he means and means what he says, which is why he doesn`t fit in with the regular cast of characters who speak to us from podiums or who opine for cash on teevee. The problem with Dean was that he was never willing to sacrifice his core principles just because it might make things easier. He stands for something and that can`t be tolerated in the back rooms where the deals are made.

The DLCers and the middle-of-the-roaders...people who are responsible for the nearly unrecognizable Democratic Party we have today... are the ones who despise him or dismiss him. As for me, I admire his courage, the same courage he showed the day he stood up and spoke out against the immoral Iraq War.



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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #127
168. Ironic note . . .
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 01:37 PM by janet118
After Dean left the 2004 presidential race and Dean for America became Democracy for America, he compiled the "Dean's Dozen" list - 12 Democratic candidates selected so Dean supporters could help Democrats in state and local campaigns. Barack Obama, who was running for the Senate in Illinois then, was on this first list.

This was way before the 2004 Democratic convention where Obama made such a huge splash.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
128. It's funny. I voted Obama because I thought Clinton would empower
the people Obama has. The joke was on me.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #128
131. Me too - I chose Obama over Clinton because I didn't like her hawkishness...
...or her corporate ties. I'm holding out hope that there's a method to his madness ~ that he's using these folks because they can get things done, but the things they'll be getting done are different than what they'd do on their own.

Someone on the news yesterday said that he has a kind of shadow cabinet that will be pulling the strings of the "real" cabinet like on West Wing. I sure as hell hope so!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #131
137. What news organization?
I would like to know their source.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #137
138. I think it was msnbc and the person seemed to mean his circle of advisors.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #138
144. Thanks.
I'll start digging and watching.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #144
166. Yesterday, they played the YouTube of West Wing music with Obama's team...
Andrea Mitchell was just talking to Chuck Todd ~ they mentioned that Obama chooses someone for the cabinet and at the same time puts someone in the WH as an advisor.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #166
204. Very interesting.
Maybe a counterbalance to each selection?
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Fla Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #131
193. See, this is what I'm hoping. He has front people that mollify the right wing, but like the Wizard
of Oz the real work, agenda and momentum will be done behind the curtain. If it turns out his agenda is one that emphasizes keeping peace with the right, I will be eternally sorrowful, that at this time in history, we may have given away our last best chance.
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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #128
150. Do you think Obama lied about his positions in order to win, or did he have a change of heart
after he got elected and will be responsible for what happens, or something else?

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #150
152. I make no claims. I'm just reacting to many of his appointments.
I wouldn't pretend to know his positions fully until he is in office for awhile.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
132. Yeah, Howard Dean is "too partisan". I guess being a strong Democrat to HELP OBAMA WIN was his sin.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
134. i would`t be surprized if snake in the grass rahm ...
had something to do with this. he`ll turn the grassroots into a concrete parking lot by 2010.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #134
136. Or the party.
People voted for change.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
147. Dean Congratulates Gov. Kaine on DNC Chairman Appointment

Washington, DC-- Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean
issued the following statement today congratulating Governor Tim Kaine
on his appointment to become the next chairman of the DNC:

I want to congratulate Governor Tim Kaine on being named the next
chairman of the Democratic National Committee. I was actively engaged
in Tims campaign for governor in 2005, and knew then he would become
one of our Partys great leaders. Tim's strong record of
accomplishment has resulted in Virginia being named the best managed
state in America and includes numerous important victories for
Virginians including record breaking efforts in land conservation,
increased funding for Virginia's schools and the newly approved rail
transit line to Dulles Airport.

Tim understands the importance of reaching out to everyone,
standing up for our values and I know he will continue to build and
strengthen our party from the grassroots up. Tim is the right choice to
lead the Democratic National Committee into this new era of American
politics. Democrats have made great gains over the past four years, but
we know we still have work to do to ensure that we keep Americamoving
forward as we support President-elect Obamas agenda to address the
critical issues facing our country.

I also want to congratulate the Executive Director-designate of the
DNC, Jennifer O'Malley Dillon. Her strong managerial and political
skills make her well-equipped for running the day-to-day operations of
the DNC, and I wish her the best of luck.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #147
153. Dean is a team player.
I think the concern lies with the efforts to smear him and to get rid of him during his tenure and the abandonment of or the demotion of the 50 State Strategy that has become his legacy.
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
149. .... looks like Anakin Obama is starting to let his Sith side show ...
:(
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bongbong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
151. Occam's Razor
Let's look the simplest explanation possible, as well as one that reflects decades of history.

I doubt the reason Dean was snubbed was personal. Politicos at the national level are quite used to "sucking it up" for a higher or electioneering reason. The most likely reason was the same reason that people get promoted in the workplace.

Contrary to what most people think, the main reason a person can reach a CEO or other high level in business is that that person is "safe". They will not do anything out of the ordinary. To get to a very high level in business, you only need talent, achievements, looks, etc in the 80 or 90th percentile. But you have to be in the 99+ percentile in consistency and be in the 99.9+ percentile in being a known quantity. This is the reason for hiring from the Old Boys Network.

Big business, who makes all the hiring decisions at the national level in America (and most other countries) uses the same criteria in hiring their political spokesmen (AKA President, VP, Cabinet, Congresspersons) as they do when they seek out a VP or CEO.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #151
154. It was a childish thing to do, and I think it intentional...meant to harm.
And likewise meant to send a message to the grassroots of the party who was in charge.

I seldom agree with Jerome Armstrong on anything anymore, but I used to read his posts a lot.

He makes some good points in this post at MyDD. I disagree with him that Obama did not know....Obama should have known. If he is putting two people in charge of his schedule like Rahm and Gibbs...then he needs to monitor it more closely.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2009/1/9/93813/28113

"Obama snubs Dean, says the title of Jonathan Martin's Politico piece. I doubt that Obama himself knew that Howard Dean was not invited to attend the introduction of incoming DNC Chair Tim Kaine. Obama shows up, someone else does the scheduling. But between Robert Gibbs and Rahm Emanual, there is enough hostility toward Dean for that person to get the cue for this type of childish act.
And yes, the blow-off was intentional. As the AP notes, "Democrats with knowledge of the situation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid angering the Obama team, say Dean won't attend the event at the request of Obama advisers." That is also the confirmation I received from current DNC officials. "If he had been asked to go to that event, he would have been there," Jim Dean, the chairman's brother, noted twice in an interview."

..."haha, Kumbaya... The Chicago Way has arrived in DC. Yea, and there's a special election for Rahm Emanuel's Chicago CD that the netroots ought to engage.

As for Howard Dean's next step, I've heard he is going on an international speaking engagement tour, and also is planning on getting involved in the battle for universal healthcare, either through some known advocacy group, or through DFA. Well, if Obama really screws up, by staying put in Iraq and putting 40,000 more troops into Afghanistan, maybe Dean will once again be the outsider voice that tells the truth on behalf of progressives. With that in mind, it's certainly not a strategical move in line with the 'Team of Rivals' narrative.

There's another issue that has been boiling up, about the "firing" of the 50 state organizers. The truth is in-between. They all had contracts through the end of the election, like most organizers. The bigger concern, that the 50 state strategy goes on, under Obama via Kaine, seems to be the issue.

I'm sure it will, but entirely under the auspices of the Obama organization being brought in, which will likely make OFA 2.0 quite an efficient centralized machine-- with similarities with how the Bush ran the RNC during his presidency (effective but very top-down)? How will the states react to the development? Probably pretty well, as long as the DNC continues some sort of funding of their activities. Probably not well, if the Dean vision of decentralizing the power away from the DNC, and to the states, is effectively reversed back to the pre-Dean era Clinton strategy of centralizing the money within the national DNC."


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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
160. My main concern with this is that it could mean Obama is listening too much to Emanuel
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #160
162. If that's the case, he's been listening to him for MONTHS, now.
And he obviously likes him. They were in the same Illinois delegation, after all. They're not ciphers to one another...more likely, they are friendly.

I don't think it's a good idea to paint Obama as a guy who can be "easily swayed" by "Evil" Rahm. Obama knows his own mind. Obama hired Rahm, not the other way around. Clearly RE had qualities that Obama appreciated.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
161. Every time I have said "Dean is getting the stiff arm" or "No job for Dean"
or "Team O doesn't want anything to do with Dean" I have been met by a lot of anger for voicing that opinion, which I based on silly things, like, oh, comments by people who worked for him. I've also been called a "right wing troll" for expressing that opinion.

It wasn't rocket science. Once he started dismantling the fifty state strategy, once the people working it were pink slipped, you could see the handwriting on the wall. And when Dean was vetted for...NO JOB, it was pretty obvious that he wasn't on the Snuggle Love List.

Now that it is out in the open, I wonder how many people will acknowledge that there was no pony under that particular pile of crap?

Obama isn't liking Dean.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
167. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #167
172. No one would ever say the same about your posts. nt
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
173. It is disappointing. I really don't understand this.
I don't know if this means much, but I did get a chance to hear Obama give his speech on the radio. He did have words of high praise for Dean, though I can't remember the exact words. Maybe that doesn't mean much given the fact that he didn't invite Dean to the event. I just don't know.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #173
174. He said Dean worked with Rahm to get things done.
That is just so not true. Dean and Rahm are two entirely different people, so that was a gratuitous tip of the hat to Rahm. If not, why fail to mention Schumer's role at the DSCC. He helped get the win as well.

Dean was not invited, period. He was still chairman, and the event was at the DNC.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
176. Are Dean and Progressives in general uncouth?
I want to believe this is about some petty grudge RE holds against Dean.

I want to believe the Democratic Party will not continue its slide to the right.

Maybe Progressives and our heroes like Governor Dean are too uncouth to be a part of this administration? Maybe Dean gets everything right in a socially unacceptable way?

The idea that PE Obama wouldn't want to be associated with partisan Democrats sounds plausible. Partisan Democrats in his administration might rub too many Republicans the wrong way.

I want to remain hopeful.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #176
224. Getting things right in a "socially unacceptable way" or a politically unacceptable way.
Good point.

We are only supposed to be right in acceptable ways.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
181. Hang in there. No way this post-partisanship is going to work.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #181
183. Lordy I hope you are right.
Cause I can not take anymore of the let's go along to get along stuff.

I just can not take it anymore.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #183
208. A number of the Founding Fathers intensely disliked the idea of
parties and partisan politics, but all their good intentions could not prevent parties from taking hold and becoming central to our system.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #181
196. post-partisan is just another word for appeasement
simply new terminology for a new american century (sorry, but I've reached my tipping point on pnacis appointed to crucial positions in the "change" (as in brother can you spare a dime? change) administration. :grr:
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
191. mad - this was meant to be post on the bullying thread that was locked.
I've been a fan and supporter of Dean since he gave his speech to California dems that ignited this party. He was my choice in 2004 and is one of my heroes along with Al Gore -- beyond 2004.

I agree with you that there has been some "bullying," however I don't read it as such quite as much. I think what you are seeing is some people (and I personally don't blame them) wanting to believe that this party isn't actually starting to eat itself alive right as we take the reigns of power. They want to "feel" unity akin to election eve. It's completely understandable considering all of the work so many of us have done.

Are their causes for concern about the incoming administration, absolutely. Have there been snubs, perceived or not? Probably. Not everyone is going to be happy, and not nearly everyone who deserves it is going to get credit where it is due. But imho folks like Dean are happy warriors who are not in it for the cred -- they are in it to win it. Ultimately that is what matters most. And they have done it. It is our job to continue to fight for the causes they (and we) believe in.

In regards to bullying, I'm inclined to cut folks some slack since I believe in most cases it comes from a sincere desire to relish our recent victory after years of heartache. It is born out of frustration perceived by those who are seeing folks on our "side" that are already deeply unhappy with the Obama transition. Change never happens the way we all want.

Personally I am inclined to agree with this frustration -- I think it would be silly for us to suck all of the wind out of our sails before we've even taken over the boat. That doesn't mean we can't figure out a way to be on the boat together in the meantime.

Thanks for all you have done.

-dave29
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. Well, they won, it was locked.
And yes our party is now headed by a chairman who wants politicians to openly speak of their religion in public. He is anti-choice, anti-gay marriage, anti-civil unions, and not very friendly to labor.

And we are supposed to say okay, fine with us.

The post was locked, I'd better hush, or this one will be also.

The winners...ta da!

It's really okay.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #192
203. Kaine is also an extremely popular Democrat from Virginia
that was vetted to be VP.

You know as well as I that Dr. Dean accomplished civil unions in Vermont but was never for legalizing gay marriage. Hell, he wore a bullet-proof vest he was getting so many threats just trying to pass the law. I point this out mainly to say there is no ONE Democrat that epitomizes all of the items you mentioned that could head the DNC effectively, and that just because Dean didn't share the belief that gay marriage should be legalized, he still did a remarkable job as party chairman. He also very pointedly got himself in trouble when he tried to say our party should reach out to Republicans who were voting against their self interest. Kaine epitomizes that sentiment, and has been successful. We won Virginia. He has been successful where so many other Democrats failed. It does not represent a shift to the right. It represents, in my opinion, a very real embrace of the fifty state strategy.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #203
205. We won VA and we are winning religious folks.
I guess that's what we are supposed to do after all.

SO...Kaine is popular, I know that. That does not help me understand why the outgoing chair must be totally ignored and not even invited to the changing of the guard.

There's a message there to those of us who are activists....go quietly away. That's just so sad, it really is.

No one Democrat is everything to everyone. But aren't they still important enough to be noticed after giving up 4 years of their life for the party?

Just step aside, we don't want to be seen with controversial figures. Sad.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #205
207. I honestly believe that is not the message they are trying to send
Obama has more than a monumental task before him, and he will need all of our help. As will Kaine. I think the email sent out tonight was a recognition that they flubbed the PR on the changing of the guard. Does that make it all better... not really, but at least there is recognition there that Dean has a base within the party that cannot be ignored. That in and of itself is an important message that was sent to them.

I do not believe for a second that Obama dislikes Dean. They may have disagreements. I hold no illusions about Rahm Emannuel and Dean, although I believe there is a genuine respect there for what each has accomplished. I believe any animosity there was born of the Clintonian dramas throughout the last four years, and was shaped by those loyalties. Both have done good work. My belief is that Dean is by far more responsible for getting into those states we ignored for so long, and creating the infrastructure we needed to win. Emmanuel, whatever folks make think of him, is hard nosed -- and gets things done. He deserves some credit for our successes regardless of his loyalties.

And I trust Obama's judgment.

I have never subscribed to the adulatory theory of progress. We do not need to throw a parade for Howard Dean no matter how much he deserves it. Figures like Dean leave their marks in our History books. They serve as role models -- and make their way into the stories we tell our children about what good people can accomplish. I have no doubts he will continue down this path.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #207
210. "adulatory theory of progress"
I don't like that term. I prefer a term like inspiration. Hubby and I had been Democrats, but never actively. We were "inspired" by Dean in 2003, and we have been active since. We have been outspoken about the direction of the party. We do not like the religious right taking it over, and yes, it is the religious right doing it. We remained politically active, and donated regularly until lately. We supported Obama completely.

But now we are not active and we stopped all donations. There is NO reason, none at all, for a party to distance itself from its activists....ever. Not ever. But especially now that we've won....to distance is inexcusable.

I knew the moment Rahm was picked where this was heading. Most of us did. It did not have to be this way. There is no excuse for snubbing a good man who worked so hard, and also sending a message to activists. No reason at all.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #210
214. I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
Not all activists (including myself) feel this way. However, I understand where the anger comes from, completely.

I am not a religious person, and I understand completely the fears about the religious right. I do believe there is some common ground there, however, that we should be willing to embrace, no matter how much it turns our stomach to do so. The common ground I see are those things that Dr. Dean described that got him in so much trouble (getting folks who might not be well educated to stop voting against their self interest) and more importantly to me, the issue championed by Al Gore... our environment. There are many on the right that have come around on this issue and see it (as I do) as a moral imperative.

To me these issues trump everything else at this moment in history.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #214
216. Hard to talk common ground when women and gays are losing rights
And they are losing them because of the votes of Democrats as well as Republicans.

And example of what is coming.

Tim Kaine on abortion, stem cells, same-sex marriage, civil unions, and labor issues.

And some from what has already been done to women and gays.

House Democrats recruited 12 anti-choice candidates to run in 2008.

The Democratic party overall did not fight hard against the amendments to hurt the gay community. Here's one example.

Florida Democratic Party refused to fight against Amendment 2.

Too many people are taking this all too casually. The Democrats increased funding last year for abstinence only education. The only reason they did it was to appeal to the religious right, most of whom know it has already failed.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #210
229. Why are you blaming RAHM? He's not the incoming President.
He's also not the Christian who believes that marriage is the sanctified union between a man and a woman...that's OBAMA's take on that matter. Rahm isn't the guy who asked Rick Warren to come to "his" Inauguration.

Rahm is the Jew who kept his mouth shut and didn't endorse a candidate during the primary. Rahm is the guy who takes orders from the President Elect.

When you say "Rahm was picked" you need to start acknowledging WHO PICKED HIM.

Unless you believe that Obama is a puppet of evil forces, you need to wrap your head around the truth that "where this is heading" is where Barack H. Obama wants it to go.

Obama is large and in charge. Not Rahm Emmanuel. Not "The DLC." Obama is making these decisions, and all those other entities are dancing to HIS tune--not the other way around.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #191
198. "they are in it to win it. Ultimately that is what matters most. "
I do not think that Howard Dean is
a "happy warrior" whose objective
was to "win one for the team".

It's NOT a GAME.
It's a process.


"It is our job to continue to fight for the causes they (and we) believe in."
(This is probably closer to Dean's philosophy.)


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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #198
202. of course it's not a game -- bad analogy
I meant to infer he is humble, unlike most politicians, and it is not the praise or adulation (or appointments) he was after -- it was the long term vision. He is in the mold of our founding fathers. I happen to believe Barack Obama is as well.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #202
222. Sorry, I get touchy about the whole team mentality...
Half of the republicans I know are blowhards
who just wanted to be on the "winning team".

Of course, they are pretty cowed right now... :eyes:

I hope Dean doesn't claim victory here to
be happily sent out to pasture.

We need him and his work ethic!

:hi:

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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
199. I am totally disgusted with Obama about this snub. Is he in control or
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 08:34 PM by MasonJar
Rahm? This lands squarely on Obama, even if RAHM is the instigator. It is so obviously a snub; it makes zero sense. Why is Obama purposefully ignoring, even antagonizing his base? He can forget about our having no place else to go if this continues. We will find a new candidate. It was totally unnecessary to insult Howard Dean!!!!!!!!!!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
200. recommend -- the fifty state strategy made the democratic part what is today.
and not giving props to dean -- and the democratic party STILL needs dean -- isn't going to help us in the future.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
201. KandR. Thank you. n/t
peace~
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
206. MF: I understand you are upset about this.
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 10:17 PM by AtomicKitten
You have every right to be. You also have every right to be treated respectfully. And not mocked. Somebody wrote a scathingly satiric OP today that I responded by admiring his literary skills (I also advised he was offending people), but it was mocking, I realize it now, and I'm sorry about that. It was thoughtless of me.

I just wanted you to know that it's not that I disagree with you about Dean and Obama, it's that I just don't care. Let me explain that. I just can't do the inter-Democratic squabbles anymore. I'm in rehab from the primaries still and I need to start moving forward.

I love Howard Dean and it is disappointing he didn't get a job. I do think he deserved it. But having watched Obama over the last few years, I can't see him being rude. There is no reason to believe he would be. I don't care about the dust-up between Dean and Emanuel either. I think they are both powerful, talented men that butt heads. I have an affinity for Dean, but neither of them define me. But that is the point where conversations start sliding into personality politics, people choose up sides, and I'm trying to get that monkey off my back.

I care about policy. People mock me because I'm hopeful. :) That's okay. That's easy enough to live with. It's show time 1-20-09. Eight long-ass years. You have been invaluable particularly in your coverage of the Florida-Michigan freakshow. Please don't be mad, madflo :) because I don't want you to miss this.

:party:
:patriot:
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msfiddlestix Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
213. Nominated..
K&R.. :applause:
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #213
217. thanks for your voice
Do what it do...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #213
218. We had someone encouraging us to fight, that we could make a difference.
Now we don't have that. We really are being asked to settle back in and not make waves....not in so many words but that's how it is.

The party for years has been making activist and liberal dirty words. We let them do it.

I feel we lost the voice that said things which not proper politically but that were right.

Now I feel we are being stifled in proper calm cautious talk just like back in 2002 and 2003. I miss the wave making and plain speaking.

I feel good about our new president over all. I do not feel that good about some closest to him. I think activists will be given lip service only.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
230. I had big dreams for "post-partisan" but I imagined it to mean something very different.......
I thought Obama was going to bring a correlational approach to politics.

I thought that for him, "post-partisan" meant engaging in a campaign of political cognitive reframing, in which through a process of first finding common ground for dialogue with an opponent, you persuade that person to your point of view. I thought it meant finally having a leader with the courage to educate the public and help bring them to place of understanding that what have been called "liberal" ideas are actually in fact core values of the majority of Americans (the majority being the majority that makes under 200,000 a year, not a majority "blue" or majority "red").

I was so. damned. excited. about this.

I felt like it was exactly what our country needed more than anything to go forward in a lasting way.


..... and what Obama has shown me so far is that didn't mean what I thought he meant at all. :(

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #230
231. "Post partisan" means the party's tent opens mainly to the right.
With a wee left door for people who are leftish and who are carefully moderated speakers who never get too outspoken or too critical.

Well, actually it means "no" party. I don't like that term. With a one party government there is no opposition.

Dean was too "partisan", and it showed. I am going to remain that way whether there is room in the party for me or not.

:hi:

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
233. Sorry, Jim...you must have spoken out of turn and out of line.
Sorry about that.
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LaydeeBug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
234. kick. nt
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