Hey, Dem leaders... how it works is that when your bluff is called the hand is over.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

A lot of people made complete asses of themselves by talking about not seating an Illinois pick.

It was foolish. You don't shoot your mouth off about things you cannot do. But what's done is done.

At this point Reid and company are like someone trying to rob a bank with a squirt gun who, when the teller says, "Umm... that's just a squirt gun," actually starts squirting water at him. Take that!

I think it is shameful for a Governor to try to get favors for an appointment.

It is also shameful for the leader of the Senate (not to mention a president elect!) to make-up unconstitutional bullshit to appear super-ethical or just bad-ass.

Governors, senators and presidents are all supposed to operate within a framework of law. The law could not be much clearer in this case. Burris is the junior senator from Illinois.

(And the Illinois Secretary of State should be impeached right alongside Blago. Threatening to not perform a *ministerial* function that is in no way optional is a gross abuse of the office.)

Move on. Seat Burris. Let Illinois worry about impeaching their governor.

And in the future restrict your threats to actions that are legal, constitutional and possible.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Has't Burris said he would be a caretaker anyway?

So we're looking at 2 years with him in office. And he will work hard because he has a reputation to uphold--or to mend, depending on your point of view.

[nevergiveup]

2. Well, I am one of the people of Illinois

and I hope Reid, Obama, Jessie White and Durbin stick to their guns on this. If Burris is seated you are talking about a Republican senator from Illinois in 2010. Blago is going to jail and Burris in spirit will be there with him when he runs for re-election in 2010.

[Blarch]

17. So...

fuck the law ?

Jeeesh, haven't we learned anything ?

[IsItJustMe]

20. Damn psychic scare me. You have no idea what is going to happen between now and 2010.

[nevergiveup]

25. I don't pretend to be a psychic

but I have lived here over 60 years and am fairly familiar with Illinois politics. The Illinois Republican party has been in a free-fall since the prosecution of George Ryan and Blago is throwing them a rope. As an Illinois Democrat the Blago situation, especially in light of Obama's success, makes me disgruntled, disheartened and grouchy.

[IsItJustMe]

29. We will see. I just see so many variables that can happen between now and 2010 that it is hard for

me to get a good handle on where this is all heading. But then again, you may be right. I just don't know.

[Blarch]

60. Agreed.

The writing was on the wall for a few years now.

[glowing]

3. It does seem odd that everyone always wants to change the rules to

suit themselves.. but if we said that to a judge, he'd laugh.

[Saturday]

4. I'm another "people of Illinois" and I totally agree with you.

Fitz shot off his mouth long before he had all the evidence, Reid shot off his mouth and Obama shot off his mouth. They will all be eating crow when Burris is seated.

[GarbagemanLB]

5. and will be vindicated when the GOP ties Burris to Blogo in 2010 and takes the seat.

[frogcycle]

7. Your profile says you are from Oregon

mind your own business

[GarbagemanLB]

9. No thanks.

[Seldona]

47. Like this has no bearing on national politics?

Please.

[frogcycle]

61. last time I checked

I had no say-so in whom Oregon sends to Washington.

Please.

[Demoiselle]

11. Burris has a habit of losing primaries....

So maybe in two years some other Illinois Democrat will push him aside and win the Senate seat. In the meantime, Illinois will have two Senators, both Dems, who can help us get done what so desperately needs to get done in Congress.

[dansolo]

30. The Dems are not going to lose this seat in 2010.

Burris is 71 years old, and will probably not seek re-election. And if he does, he will lose in the primary. The IL GOP is in complete disarray.

[Arkana]

31. Moreso than the MA GOP?

I don't know, my friend--I think if we compared notes on our state Republican parties that the race to the bottom would be neck and neck.

[polmaven]

33. I hear you on that one,

but we do seem to have more than our share of DINOs.

[karynnj]

34. Most of your congressional delegation is great

Are you speaking of the state legislature?

[polmaven]

41. Yes.

My own State Rep is one. She is anti-choice, anti-gay marriage, and votes nay on a whole array of liberal legislation.

[Arkana]

45. Our state legislature's got its share of douchebags.

Our Speaker, Sal DiMasi, likes to be obstructionist just to get his name in the paper. He hates Deval and makes no bones about it. And the previous speaker, Tom Finneran, was just as fucking bad.

But the GOP will never come back to power in this state--at least not in my lifetime. As tired as Massachusetts is of the corruption that infests our state government, they know damn right well that the GOP would be much, much worse.

EDIT: Our State Rep is awesome, though. She's about 5 feet tall, a lesbian, and the biggest firebrand you'll ever meet.

[polmaven]

58. Tom Finneran!!! OMG!!!!

Have you ever listened to his radio show? I mean, WOW! I think that guy INVENTED the term DINO.

I knew he was "that way" when he was Speaker, but there is nothing you or I can do about that.

I often commented that my Rep would start each morning going into his office, put her right index finger on her chin, and say...."Good Morning Mr. Speaker! How do you want me to vote on today's issues?" She is a real piece of work.

I usually work for whoever may oppose her in a primary, and 2 years ago, he fell 250 votes short. This year, though, she was unopposed.

[frogcycle]

6. I'm from Illinois, and I agree

All this talk about 2010 is fucking reprehensible.

What we need is to get someone respectable seated now, work on economic recovery, and deal with the Gov. in due course.

The implications to the 2010 election are immaterial. Sometimes you just have to let the chips fall.

Oh, and by the way, I don't buy that Burris or probably another dem would not be elected in 2010.

[MrGreene]

14. Hoping you are right

I am cautiously optimistic about this. With the economy gone sour the way it has, you would think there would be very high demand to focus on substantive issues like how to get our economy out of the rut and that the Republicans would be permanently damaged for the horrible stuff they have caused the past 8 years on a nation-wide level. You would think.

[tularetom]

8. Reid let his mouth write a check his ass couldn't cash

(Jesus I love that expression). All Blago did was what he has an obligation to do - nominate a senator to replace Obama. First of all, Fitz has once again made a big splashy accusation that he is having trouble backing up. He is now asking for more time to indict. Then Reid had to show that he actually had a spine by jumping on Fitz's poorly constructed band wagon.

Burris may indeed be a very poor candidate. But there is no way the Senate Dems can refuse to seat him. And Blago is still the governor, and thanks to Fitz opening his big mouth before he had his shit together, he may actually be the governor for quite a while yet.

Fitzgerald is nothing but a self promoting windbag. Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, and Dick Cheney ought to be in jail now awaiting execution for treason.

[rateyes]

10. In other words, another SNAFU from Reid...

Situation Normal: All Fucked Up.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

18. Good one, and so true.

[Jim Sagle]

42. Along with w himself.

[tblue37]

51. I also like a similar (African) expression:

"Don't let your alligator mouth bite your hummingbird ass."

[undeterred]

12. Reid doesn't have the smarts to choose the right battles.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

19. Reid = Dipshit

[Danger Mouse]

13. It's entirely possible.

It may end up going before the Supreme Court, but it is far from open and shut.

[IsItJustMe]

15. I completely agree with your post.

Some thought that Obama was being so high minded when he called for Blago's resignation. I had quit a different take on it.

I thought it was a huge mistake. Believe me, Obama has much bigger fish on his plate than to concern himself with this.

It also sets a very bad example. You wait and see. Every time some off-the-wall politician gets a charge on them now, the news media is going to run to Obama expecting him to give his two cents about the situation.

[karynnj]

35. I agree with you - and add that it seems wrong to prejudge the result

when the impeachment process has not yet started. The transcripts released show that Blago is a pretty seedy character. The question is whether he broke the law and/or if there are grounds to impeach him. The problem I have is that Obama was a Constitutional Law professor and this really seems to set a bad precedent. Here, there might be real reason to remove Blago, but he like everyone else is due a fair process. Has he even been indicted yet? Could this be used for political reasons? (I am shocked that supposedly 50 Senators signed on to this - which I think is all of them as Obama has already resigned.)

I also don't buy Fitzgerald's supposed logic that he needed to act before Blago sold the seat and then announced the payer as the Senator. It would seem to me that letting it go forward would show if he did this - if he did indict BOTH the briber and Blago. There would be no risk that the briber would actually become Senator.

[Hansel]

16. Exactly.

It would have been wiser to "hide behind" the rule of law and not make any political comments on this. "The law is on Blagojevich's side. We wish it wasn't, but it is. If he appoints someone we won't be happy, but as long as he or she is qualified and there is no evidence that he or she bought the seat, we will have to live with the decision. He is still the governor, this is a state issue and we have no further comment."

As usual, the Democrats have helped to create a bigger mess for themselves by allowing themselves to be so easily manipulated by the corporate media and Rovian Republicans. This never was and never would have been Obama's or the Democrats problem, but by everyone feigning outrage in order to appear like they are not a party to this mess, they have made themselves a party to this mess.

How many frickin times are they going to walk into this trap? I would have thought that Obama would have been smarter. Dang Obama. Use that bully pulpit.

The Dems in Illinois have 2 years to bulk up a strong candidate to run against Burris in the primary, if in fact he evens runs. In the meantime, they should have kept their mouths shut and just seated him.

[IsItJustMe]

21. I do think that the Dems have shot first and are now in a bad spot. I hope on the next go around

they are a litte less reactive and a whole lot more patient. Time will tell.

[ProSense]

22. The Senate is going to block Blagojevich's appointment

They have the authority to do so.


more

[EFerrari]

28. All they need to do is delay it long enough. The squirt gun is enough, imo. n/t

[ColesCountyDem]

38. Too bad that they lack the authority to do so.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1968/1968_138/

[ProSense]

48. You keep posting that, but that is not the point.

The determination was based on a duly elected member (there was nothing wrong with the process) and his qualifications.

That is completely different from judging the process. If this goes to the courts, they will make the determination based on the Senate's claim that the Blagojevich tainted the process, not on Burris' qualfications.

[ColesCountyDem]

52. No, they'll base the decision on applicable Illinois law and the US Constitution.

I'm not missing the point at all-- YOU are.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

23. What would it take to get rid of Reid? Is it even possible?

[natrat]

32. its like wack a mole-get rid of reid and another corrupt dem pops up-hoyer,pelosi etc etc

[ProSense]

24. Oh, and this:

It is also shameful for the leader of the Senate (not to mention a president elect!) to make-up unconstitutional bullshit to appear super-ethical or just bad-ass.

is nonsense.

[Jim Sagle]

43. Actually it's plain and obvious truth.

[stillcool]

26. I wonder is someone could explain..

the difference between an 'indictment' and a 'complaint', and if Blago has been 'indicted'.

[Critters2]

37. He hasn't been indicted yet. In fact, Fitz has just asked for 3 more months

to investigate before trying to get an indictment.

[ColesCountyDem]

40. The difference is this, basically:

A complaint simply alleges (via affidavit/affidavits) that the US Attorney has probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, and a judge may issue either a warrant or a summons, if he agrees with the complaint. An indictment is neccessary when the offense is a felony punishable by death or imprisonment for more than one year..

[stillcool]

44. thanks...I am amazed at how little I know..

about the law. I thought you got arrested and a trial date was set, and that was it.

[WinkyDink]

27. That says, "G. U. B.. 'I have a gub.'"

[ColesCountyDem]

36. They picked a fight they can't possibly win, and that's not very smart.

Sen. Reid and the caucus are picking a fight where the both the US Constitution and Illinois state law are on Blagojevich's and Burris' side.

[gravity]

39. It gives the Democrats plausible deniability

Even if it is just a bluff, it disassociates the Dems from Blago so they can protect their own asses.

It isn't smart politics to associate the party with corruption and abuse.

[Alexander]

46. Exactly. This is more about CYA than the law or the Constitution.

The Senate Democrats don't want to look like they have anything to do with Blagojevich, so they're making noises like this.

If and when Burris gets seated and the courts uphold it, the Senate Democrats can say "well, at least we tried."

[FrenchieCat]

49. Whatever.

It's a shame that the 71 year old who can't seem to win much as far as statewide election was chosen simply because he was Black tagged by a warning from Bobby Rush. As a Black person, I find that reverting back to the old ways of making race paramount to everything. The fact that the Gov was arrested due to his dealing with this very senate seat, and now has selected someone as a placeholder for that same Senate seat smells nasty. If Blago was an ethical man, and had nothing to fear in terms of his innocence, he should have waited till he was exonorated prior to picking a replacement. The fact that he didn't want to wait is telling. The fact that Burris, who a few days before was saying that Blago should resign also says much about him.

[ColesCountyDem]

53. He's won 3 statewide general elections and even more Democratic primaries.

Not from Illinois, are you?

[PurityOfEssence]

50. Huzzah! Damn straight; we've become a nation of scofflaws and political pirates

There's the letter of the law and then there's the spirit of the law. Here, we're pissing all over both.

It's become accepted to pick and choose which laws one wants to respect, and the tampering with the orderly election cycles and appointment standards makes our political system an underhanded free for all. Yes, I blame the Republicans for not respecting elections with their recall of Gray Davis, the redistricting of Texas and Mississippi, the attempted redistricting of Colorado and the endless attempts to impeach Bill Clinton, but that's no reason to similarly mess with the system.

One of the greatest things about this country is that, although our system is antiquated and messy, it's generally had orderly transitions of power. Elections were respected, and people got down to the work of governing, but if extreme stopgap measures (like recalls, impeachment and refusing to seat) become the norm, we become little more than gangsters.

Why are they fighting THIS, of all things? It looks suspicious. It looks like usurpation of state authority. It looks like swaggering power-madness. It looks reckless. It looks vindictive. It looks like they have no sense of priorities. This kind of willy-nilly stomping of a wounded inferior (and face it: Blagojevich's career is OVER; it's just a matter of time) looks like weakness, not strength. Thumping on a wounded straggler looks pretty fucking imperious.

There's a tiresome knee-jerk gainsaying that's become the norm in politics these days. You don't have to fight EVERYTHING your opponent says just because he/she says it. It's like Kerry criticizing George W. Bush for wanting to significantly reduce our military presence in Germany so they could be put where they're more needed: it was a good idea--one of the few Bush has EVER proposed--and the only reason to dispute it was to just pick a fight everywhere. Sure, people are infuriatingly simplistic, but it still isn't smart to pick fights with opponents on EVERYTHING just to constantly remind the facile public that your opponent is wrong on EVERYTHING and you're right on EVERYTHING. Sheesh. It's pathetic. It's bush league, and I mean it, pun intended, with the obvious implications: petty, control-freakish, bullying, suspect and just plain amateur, just like our soon to gone Fratboy in Chief.

They could very easily stop now and leave it alone; damage has been done, but we can truly count on the present world to come up with all sorts of icky news developments to make it fall off the radar quickly and having caused only passing embarrassment. That's what they should do. If, however, they have the classic blockheaded approach to power we've seen lately from the Republicans, that traditionally proto-male habit of NEVER admitting a mistake, then they'll think they have to stick it out and really get egg on their faces. Obama seems to have a need to prove how tough he is to dispel being a wimpy peacenik, but I hope it's not going to be this bad.

Can anyone explain this?

[Enrique]

54. we haven't seen the cards

maybe the dems will win the showdown.

[bunkerbuster1]

55. And Harry, next time you want to stand on principle?

Try making it about something important. Kthnxbye.

[Thorandmjolnir]

56. Well said. THank you n/t.

[Tatiana]

57. They can seat Burris until April, when a special election is held.

If Blago is impeached, it would be a shame for Burris to hold that Senate seat for the duration of Obama's Senate term.

I'm starting to think Durbin was right about holding a special election. It is well within the IL Constitution to do so.

[amandabeech]

62. Unfortunately, the democratic-led legislature has refused to consider legislation

that would allow the special election.

First, they are concerned that a pubbie would win. Second, a state-wide special election costs $25 million in Illinois. The legislature would rather use the money to shore up an underfunded unemployment fund.

Dick Durbin can dream, but it doesn't look like anything is going to happen with any election.

The legislature is looking to oust Blago by Lincoln's Birthday.

At that point, the Lt. Governor Quinn will appoint someone else.

The Illinois SC or the U.S. Senate will attempt to sort it who is the appointee, but the issue could go to the U.S. Supreme Court.

[Madison knows]

59. "make-up unconstitutional bullshit "

Isn't that they way it's been done for quite some time?