Dammit! We won! Isn't it time we let them know it!?

[Bonobo]

Why did I bother voting for the President of the United States if he wasn't going to support, in his every breath and action, those issues that are most important to my life?

I want him to let the other side know how marginalized I have felt for the last 8 years!!

How?

Well, errr, ummm, by marginalizing the other side of course! Common ground with people with different beliefs than me? Fuck that!

[Joe the Revelator]

1. Who would have thought that a guy who ran on inclusion would try to be inclusive

Those damn politicians.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. If he's including anti-gay, anti-women individuals, he needs to include racists as well nt

[Joe the Revelator]

6. :::sigh::: you know, I've never put someone on ignore before....but one can only take so much

hyperbole.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. It's amazing what I'm finding out today. Racism is not okay but being anti-gay is okay and so is...

denying women the right to own their body the same way men do.

I'm glad this is all coming out. And I'm glad I'm finding out what I'm finding out about Obama even before he's in office.

I do wish I'd found out before the elections tho.

[Joe the Revelator]

12. When did Obama threaten to take away a woman's right to choose?

When did Obama change his stance on Gay marriage?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. He hasn't yet but he has honored someone who believes in that openly and is making him

the #1 religious speaker at his inauguration.

Am I supposed to think he picked out a preacher to guide the invocation of his inauguration, but that in reality, he actually disagrees with him? If that were so, that's incredibly f*cked up as well.

Something is quite unkosher in this whole thing.

[Joe the Revelator]

16. You are so far off the deep end I'm afraid to jump in with you without water wings

Just continue to jump to conclusions based on nothing more then a 3 minute speech and I'll leave you with this:

Did Bill Clinton's choice of Billy Graham to do his invocation make him an anti-semitic,pro-life, gay basher?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

17. I don't know. Did Billy Graham work tirelessly on prop 8 and all the other anti-gay propositions?

Rick Warren sure did. I think it's rubbing salt in the wounds of all gays for Obama to have this pig honored in his inauguration.

[Joe the Revelator]

19. That's one hell of a dodge. If you say that Obama is made dirty by the person who gives his

invocation, then you need to carry the analogy on to every single President who has been inaugurated.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. This preacher is a total PIG. How on earth would you even compare him with Graham?

And I'm no friend of Graham. This man organized his FOLLOWERS to help prop 8 win. Are you for real?

[Joe the Revelator]

21. Billy Graham was also a pig. Do some reading about him

He was everything that you accuse Warren of being, plus he was anti-Semitic. Does that change your view of Bill Clinton since he was Bill's personal spiritual adviser as well as the person who gave the invocation at both of his inaugurations.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. What did he do that was anti-semitic? And is Obama having him officiate?

As for what happened in the past, I am not responsible for what I wasn't involved in yet.

I am involved in this. I feel cheated, I feel had, and I feel lied to. This isn't change. This is more of the same. This is another McSame.

[Joe the Revelator]

24. You need to look at history before you get so excited

The person giving the invocation has no power. At all. Do you even remember or know who gave the invocation in 1980? 1962? 1948? I'm sure that Presidents don't always agree with the person they ask to say a prayer.

And here is your information on Graham:

http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/07/01/billy-graham-anti-semite.htm

[Sarah Ibarruri]

26. 1972, Graham was secretly having conversations. 2008, I'm campaigning for Obama and giving $$

1972 makes interesting history. However, the money that flew out of my bank account and into Obama's campaign account did this in 2008. The 10 vacation days I spent canvassing door-to-door for Obama was also in 2008.

Back in 1972 it was the responsibility of whoever canvassed and contributed back then to find things out some way since there was no Internet back then.

As for me now, this is my responsibility now.

Obama is revealing what he believes, and what's WORST, he REFUSES to change this.

I feel had, used, and believe this is most assuredly NOT change.

It's a form of Bushism all over again.

[Joe the Revelator]

28. You said you wish you would have supported Clinton

When the Clinton's supported Billy Graham. And oh yeah, this guy:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

29. I said I didn't research things enough before I opened my wallet and did door-to-door

canvassing.

You BET that won't happen to me ever again.

If I could turn the clock back, I'd have researched this very well, and would have seen Obama for what he is.

[Joe the Revelator]

31. What is he?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

33. Obviously someone who bestows honors on a person that works to deny civil rights to a group.....

.. he's also someone who appoints Bushists. In other words, not change. Just more of the same.

[Joe the Revelator]

36. Hilda Solis is a "Bushist"? Hillary Clinton is a "Bushist"? Biden is a "Bushist"?

Eric Holder is a "Bushist"?
Steven Chu is a "Bushist"?

I could go on...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

38. How many president-elects to we have? nt

[Joe the Revelator]

39. huh?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

41. We're talking about the president-elect and you're mentioning Hillary, Biden, etc. nt

[Joe the Revelator]

45. Because these are people that he appointed to his administration

You are saying that he only appointed "Bushists"

I'm saying you're full of it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

47. If I had wanted someone who appointed Bushists to his administration, I'd have voted for McCain.

I wanted someone who would provide CHANGE. Who would not have more Republicans. We've had those for DECADES and what our country is suffering now, we have them to thank for.

[Joe the Revelator]

48. Its like arguing with my couch....who are these "bushists" you mention??

Because the three most important people he appointed are Biden,Clinton and Holder, none of which are "Bushists".

[Sarah Ibarruri]

50. Republicans. If I'd wanted bigoted fundies honored, Palin would have gladly done that nt

[Joe the Revelator]

51. Name the damn republicans that you keep invoking

Or admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[stillcool]

54. Who are the "Bushists" that..

have been appointed that you are so offended by? I'll make it easy for you. Here's the list of cabinet members that have been appointed:

http://www.politicalbase.com/concepts/potential-obama-cabinet/84/

[Sarah Ibarruri]

57. This soon-to-be president sees nothing wrong in honoring Rick Warren.....

He sees no conflict between campaigning on "CHANGE" then appointing Republicans, after having them for decades and seeing the destruction they've wrought upon this country.

I think I understand him more now. He likes seeing himself as a "uniter." I should've paid more attention to when he complimented Ronald Reagan, one of the most despicable men that ever lived. A highly damaging a-h. Never mind the damage. Obama likes the ego trip, the control of feeling he can bring people together under anything.

[Joe the Revelator]

59. So you're retreating from the discussion? You can't answer even simple questions...

like what republicans has Obama appointed? That is sad for you Sarah.

[stillcool]

62. He has appointed (3) Republicans..

and..if you'd done your homework you would have known that he always said he would have Republicans in his cabinet. Did you look at the list of all his appointments so far? Or is that too much 'homework'? You know if you'd done your homework you would have known that he complimented Ronald Reagan on his ability to build a 'movement'...you know the 'silent majority' and all that? You know, the reason why Democrats have been out of power for so many years? And..if you had done your homework you might actually know something about who Obama is rather than just spew your own hate speech.

[KittyWampus]

9. Come up with a popular racist pastor who is widely read, has a huge following

and also has some common causes with the Left.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. Why must someone religious be "popular" like a movie star to participate in this??

I don't think it's necessary that the person be popular.

As for this Rick Warren being religious, he's no more religious than a brownshirt in Germany.

[stillcool]

32. I think it has something to do with the "populace"

that 'we the people' thing that causes all these problems.

[Runcible Spoon]

13. all you're doing is proving homophobia is more legitimized in this country than racism

Doesn't really help negate the main premise of her issue.

[stillcool]

30. Is the fundy preacher a racist?

Three in one? Oh Wait..you said Obama was a racist..so there you go!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8008922&mesg_id=8011863

[Sarah Ibarruri]

35. The fundy pig hates women, hates gays, works tirelessly against civil rights in both cases.....

... and he's being honored by Obama.

[stillcool]

43. Oh..yes..I think we all know that..

fundamentalists generally fit that bill...but you wanted a racist as well. So, I was thinking ..those fundies are generally racist as well..but you have all three in Obama...after all you said that Obama was a bigot, a racist, and speaks openly to deny civil rights. So what's the problem with what's his name...Warren? I mean..if Obama already has it, why should Warren make any difference at all to you?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

46. If your intention is to twist my words because you're angry that I'm disappointed

That's your prerogative.

Come 2012, I will be backing a different Democrat. It will definitely not be the fake change candidate.

Again, my fault. I should've researched Obama and none of this would've come as a surprise to me.

[stillcool]

52. I'm not twisting your words..

Don't you remember the post below?.. oh yeah..if you had bothered to 'do your homework'..you would understand that your 'fake change' label doesn't fit. You know..you might not have to wait until 2012. Something 'could happen', that would make your day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8008922&mesg_id=8011863

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. What could happen? Obviously, he doesn't care what anyone thinks

He's keeping the homophobe in and will throw in as many more Republican Bush-type appointees as he wants.

We've got him for 4 years.

I'm sad. I feel I wasted a lot of time and money.

[stillcool]

56. What could happen? American history

You'd love it! What Republican/Bush types have been appointed? Below is the list of cabinet members. Maybe you could tell me all of the Republican/Bush types that are there. How could you have wasted your time, when you know nothing about him?
http://www.politicalbase.com/concepts/potential-obama-cabinet/84/

[Joe the Revelator]

60. Maybe you'll answer the question here. What Bush-Type appointments has he made

You dodged it very poorly in the long discussion above.

[ThomCat]

5. Yeah, include the bigots, and exclude your base. That's smart.

Give up on civil rights, and head to the right. That's even smarter.

You're real bright, aren't you.

[Joe the Revelator]

8. Let me know when a bigot starts writing and passing legislation

I'd imagine you're smart enough to know the difference between a three minute prayer and a law.

[ThomCat]

15. I've personally lobbied for laws, so yes, I know the difference.

I doubt you know or care.

Proposition 8 is now law, and there are now laws on the books in many states outlawing gay marriages. Is that good enough for you? Does that make you happy?

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and just like to hear yourself talk, on thread after thread, after thread.

How about giving it a rest on this topic until you actually have a clue?

[Joe the Revelator]

18. I'll ask again and see if you can make a post that doesn't become ad hominem gibberish

Does Rick Warren get to write any legislation in return for giving the invocation? Has Obama indicated that he is in support of any new legislation that will curtail equal rights that you were not aware of on Nov. 4th? Has he ever changed his stance on Gay Marriage?

[ThomCat]

23. Now you're getting so specific you're being rediculous.

No, Obama won't propose anti-gay legislation because of Warren, but Warren will have more power to propose anti-gay legislation at the state level because of this.

How hard is that to understand?

If you give a bigot power they're going to use it to advance bigotry.

[Joe the Revelator]

25. You accused Obama of "giving up on Civil Rights" and "heading to the right"

I figured there must be something on Obama's platform that you didn't know about on election day to make you think that.

[ThomCat]

27. Actions and inititiatives are everything.

His first action is to promote a bigot to helped engineer the biggest back-step in civil rights that we've ever had. Perhaps you've heard something about it. The guy's name is Warren. Everyone is talking about it recently.

Now Obama is giving him prominence and fame at the inauguration, and visiting his church, and its now coming out that they've been had a cooperative relationship for quite a while now helping each other's careers.

Obama is also appointing a whole lot of Bush people to positions, and if you've been paying attention you'll know what how devastating that has been for civil rights enforcement for the last 8 years.

So all real signs are negative so far. What have you got that looks positive?

[Joe the Revelator]

34. I take Obama at his word

I knew he was going to be "inclusive" when he ran an entire campaign, dating back to 2004, on that premise. I for one welcome that. If he wanted to polarize the country, what happened over the last eight years would happen again. I trust him to be the check that keeps those who he is including in line.

And what has given Warren "fame and prominence" is the controversy surrounding him. I've asked before but aside of Billy Graham, can you name any other Inaugural Preacher? They just aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

[ThomCat]

42. You keep citing this as "inclusive"

But it's not inclusive if it's excluding LGBT people, unless you don't count us and don't consider us worth counting.

You can't compare Warren to Graham because Warren has already pushed through more legislation in his career than Graham, and shows every indication of wanting to push through the same legislation, and more, in more states.

So you're just ASSUMMING that Obama will somehow do something positive to make up for this somewhere done the line, maybe. And you are ASSUMING that Warren is harmless. Those are dangerous assumptions in the face of so many negative facts and real actions.

Rose colored glasses will help you keep the faith, but they won't help you understand much of what is really going on.

[Joe the Revelator]

44. I'm assuming that Warren is not going to spend his three minutes talking to God about Gay Marriage

I assume that the Evangelicals will go to bed feeling like they were included
I assume that Obama will reach out to Gays in his inaugural address
I assume that Warren's invocation will retreat back into the footnotes of history
I assume that Obama will do more for LGBT people then any President before him, if nothing else because of the moment in History that we are in

I assume that neither of us really knows what is going to happen until he takes office, but I plan on letting him do that before I call him a failure.

[ThomCat]

58. I hope your assumptions prove correct.

But I think you're just showing yourself as incredibly naive because you keep looking only at the face of things and ignoring, repeatedly, the work people do afterward with the fame and spotlight they've garnered.

If Warren would disappear after the invocation and never be heard from again that would be wonderful, but that's not going to happen. And for the rest of his life he's going to be able to brag that he's so influential that he even opened a presidential inauguration. Something only one other living preacher has done. A lot of people will listen to him for that alone. That's power and authority.

Obama has yet to show any real inclination to advance LGBT people. None.

So, until your assumptions because more than just assumptions don't go bashing the people who are fighting for their lives. We actually pay attention and know what we're talking about. You're wearing rose colored glasses and guessing.

[stillcool]

37. Who are the whole lot of Bush people...

that Obama has appointed? Are you referring to Democrats? Are they now unwelcome too?

[Joe the Revelator]

40. You know, Bush People, like Biden,Clinton,Holder...those types

[stillcool]

49. Is there such a thing as a Democrat anymore?

Have the whole lot gone under the bus? I see Kucinich's name come up as the only worthy Progressive Liberal Democrat, and yet he was pro-life/anti-choice at one time, so wouldn't that prohibit him from wearing the label?

[ThomCat]

55. Keeping Bush's Defense Secretary, Robert Gates.

Putting a republican, Rep. Ray LaHood, in Secretatary of Transportation.
His National Security Advisor, Retired Marine Gen. James Jones, who campaigned for McCain.

Praise from Dick Chaney for Obama's appointments.
“I must say, I think it’s a pretty good team,” Cheney told ABC News. "I think the idea of keeping Gates at Defense is excellent. I think Jim Jones will be very, very effective as the national security adviser.”

And from ABC News
Obama has “sought the counsel of an old Republican realist—Brent Scowcroft” and also consulted “former Secretary of State George P. Shultz, a Reagan administration official who is known in some foreign policy circles as the father of the Bush doctrine because of his advocacy of preventive war.”

Others whose advice Obama has solicited, according to the Times, include former deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage, the veteran of the CIA’s Operation Phoenix assassination program in Vietnam who went on to become a member of the Project for a New American Century and the “Vulcans,” the right-wing foreign policy advisers to George W. Bush’s 2000 campaign. Armitage also served as a chief foreign policy adviser to McCain in 2008.

Rounding out the list are Gen. Tommy Franks—“we don’t do body counts”—and Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut, rejected by his own state’s Democrats because of his vociferous support for the Iraq war.

[stillcool]

61. Oh wow..yeah..

he's keeping Gates for what..a year? That is disgraceful. And <gasp> other Republicans that he always said would be in his cabinet!! What a shocker! By the way..here's the list of the 'other' appointments that might chipper you up...or not.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. Thank you. nt

[KittyWampus]

3. this sort of sounds like sarcasm. Damn, I can't tell anymore.

[jgraz]

7. DU rendered satire obsolete sometime back in June.