Wait just a GOD DAMNED MINUTE Hillary was a CARPET BAGGER but Caroline has no right?

[wndycty]

To want that seat? Give me a damned break.

I had no problem with Hillary running as Senator from NYC (although Arkansas and Illinois would have been more appropriate).

While this would be Caroline's first public office I would say she is more than qualified and she should be considered.

There are many legitimate arguments that could be made pro and con for any potential replacement but this Kennedy backlash, especially by some Hillary supporters, is BULLSHIT.

I have been lectured by many Hillary supporters about leaving the primaries behind, well its time to leave the primaries behind.

[Voltaire]

1. I know, ain't it bullshit?

Just give her the goddamned seat.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

34. Of course they are both qualified for the job

The anti Caroline stuff on DU is out of control and yes Cali seems to be the major cheerleader (I always thought he was a Hillary supporter). People may disagree with me but I see Caroline having about the same experience as Hillary when she ran. Hillary never held a public office when she was elected so what is wrong with Caroline?

[skooooo]

37. What makes her qualified??

:shrug:

[LaydeeBug]

69. she meets her state's qualifications...ALL of them. What disqualifies her?

[verges]

77. Constitutional lawyer.

[11 Bravo]

83. She's over 30, she's been a citizen for at least 9 years, and ...

she is a resident of the state which she would represent if elected. That makes her qualified.

[Usrename]

98. Honesty and decency?

It would be good to see Congress head in that direction, if you ask me.

Now, if we could find someone honest and decent to take over Schumer's seat...

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Windy]

4. Agreed. She is very qualified having been on the forefront of education reform in NY

She lives in NY... She has just as much right to be considered as anyone else.

A lot of Hillary supporters are spewing the "outrage" like Bill Press this morning.

When Hillary ran, she had never been a NY resident for any length of time. She and her husband moved their after his 8 year term. And if anyone tries to say that she didn't use the Clinton name, they would be a bit insincere to say that least. Caroline has more background and experience with NY than Hillary ever did. Its just beyond the pale frankly.

[Captain Hilts]

6. BOTH had valuable experience to be senator and to understand policy...

That senate seat was offered to Eleanor Roosevelt in 1948, it was held by James Buckley - William F's brother, Robert Kennedy - JFK's brother, etc. It's often been a Gucci seat.

Everything old is new again. The senate is full of folks like this.
Caroline is smart and decent. She'll be fine, just as Hillary was.

[ruggerson]

5. The problem is that you still refer to them as "Hillary supporters"

that's apparently how you view the world. It begins and ends with the primary of '08.

I supported Dean early on in '04 during the primaries and Gore in '00. I can't remember anyone labelling me a "Dean" or a "Gore" supporter for months after the primary was over, much less the general.

As far as I can see, we're all Democrats.

(And as someone born and bred in NYC, I'm fine with Kennedy as Senator of my home state. I realize that screws up the dynamic of the meme some are trying to push here.)

[Captain Hilts]

7. A huge % here support her. It's a few anti-royalist Obama supporters and two...

Hillary supporters who don't.

This thread is advancing a generalization that is just NOT true.

[ruggerson]

9. That's what this place thrives on

advancing generalizations that aren't true.

People are far more complex than that. Frankly, I'd love to see Patterson appoint Christine Quinn to the seat. I prefer someone get it who has some electoral and campaign experience. Plus how cool would it be to have the first openly gay women in the US senate to bring a voice to that chamber we haven't ever heard.

But Caroline's bright and she can raise money. And if she runs in '10 and proves herself as a tough fighter, she has my full support.

[Captain Hilts]

25. I don't know a lot about Quinn. Please tell me more about her. nt

[kikiek]

12. Right on. But the silliness continues.

[bottomtheweaver]

16. Oh but Lou Dobbs said dynasties are bad!

I couldn't live without Lou telling me what to think.

[kikiek]

19. Or the sexist on the young turks.

[Captain Hilts]

29. Sexism is still okay among liberals. nt

[goclark]

42. It's a real clue when Lou is saying No to Caroline ~ she is a Winner

for sure!

Lou has no clue about anything!

His father must have seen the President of CNN do some horrible things.

It must have been a bad case of blackmail for LOU to get anywhere near the power that he has...:puke:

[mkultra]

23. wow, your metrics are hyper accurate

You must work for a polling company.

I don't really think she or Hillary where "qualified" in the conventional sense but i don't really think that matters.

I think she is both honest and intelligent which, imho, makes her qualified.


Plus, i happen to just like her.

[Captain Hilts]

24. Good reasons to support her, and I agree.

[rvablue]

63. So, so true Mookie. Two of three folks are spewing their crap and everyone that

happens to appreciate/like/respect/whatever Hillary gets smeared.

I have ZERO issue with CK becoming Senator....as does Hillary have ZERO issue with it.

[LisaM]

95. Thanks for pointing that out

I was an avid Hillary supporter, and I think you couldn't find a better fit for that seat than Caroline Kennedy.

Someone here was suggesting Louise Slaughter and Charlie Rangel as better choices - who are, respectively, 80 and 79 years old, have expressed no interest in the seat, and seem perfectly happy with the jobs they have in Congress and the seniority they've achieved there. I ask you.

[NoPasaran]

17. THANK YOU!

I was a Hillary supporter long past the point that it made any sense. But since the convention, just like Hillary and Bill Clinton, I am an Obama supporter. We are all Obama supporters here (excepting those who've already written him off for not living up to their progressive dreams.)

And if Caroline Kennedy doesn't become Senator from New York, I invite her to pack a carpet bag and come down to Texas for the special election we're expecting when Kay Bailey Hutchison resigns to run for governor.

[peace frog]

18. And if Texas isn't her cup of tea

Caroline is more than welcome to come on down to sunny Florida and run against Jeb Bush in the 2010 Senate race.
PLEASE, deliver us from yet another Bush making his slimy, insidious way into the White House.

[Captain Hilts]

26. She'd kick his ass into next week. nt

[polmaven]

35. I'm quite sure she will

also be welcome in Massachusetts when (if) her uncle Ted retires. We know from our Kennedys here.

[peace frog]

45. That you do

You have Ted Kennedy, I have Bill Nelson. **sigh** CKS would be welcomed here with open arms and she is no carpetbagger - her family owned the Palm Beach, FL home for decades until it was sold not too long ago. Perhaps we can persuade her to relocate. :-)

[WolverineDG]

28. Too bad I can t rec this reply

I would love to vote for Caroline! :)

Personally, whoever gets the job is the one the governor thinks will do the best job. If he thinks it's Caroline, that's fine with me. If he choses someone else, that's fine with me as well.

dg

[SwampG8r]

41. i already got dibs on her for florida

sorry too slow

[peace frog]

61. Bwwaaaaa!

If Caroline comes to Florida, then all Floridians will have *dibs* on her. "Too slow", my left foot. ;)

[JTFrog]

8. K&R n/t

[Somawas]

10. Bullshit on caretakers.

If I were Governor and a Democrat, I'd appoint as Senator somebody who could win and keep on winning. A Democrat who could hold the seat and do my state good. Patterson probably should appoint Kennedy. Unless he has a Democrat more likely to win and keep on winning hidden around.

[onenote]

31. exactly right.

[monmouth]

11. I'm having a good laugh over "cause her last name is Kennedy." If

Hillary's last name wasn't Clinton, what do you think her chances would have been? Silliness.

[Captain Hilts]

27. ...and Bobby Kennedy, and Lincoln Chafee, and Margaret Chase Smith, and John Warner....

and James Buckley.

The senate is full of stuff like this. Caroline is, by far, among the most appealing of these legacy senators.

[LynneSin]

13. My head spins from the stupidity. Anyone comparing a Kennedy to the Bushes is NUTZ

George W. Bush spent his youth drinking and bankrupting companies

Caroline Kennedy is probably the exact opposite of what George W. Bush is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Kennedy#Professional_life
Kennedy is an attorney, editor, writer and member of the New York and Washington, D.C. bar associations. She is one of the founders of the Profiles in Courage Award, given annually since 1990 to a person who exemplifies the type of courage examined in her father's Pulitzer Prize-winning book of the same name. The award is generally given to elected officials who, acting in accord with their conscience, risk their careers by pursuing a larger vision of the national, state or local interest in opposition to popular opinion or powerful pressures from their constituents. In May 2002, she presented an unprecedented Profiles in Courage Award to representatives of the NYPD, the New York City Fire Department, and the military as representatives of all of the people who acted to save the lives of others during the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.

For 22 months from 2002 through 2004, Kennedy worked as director of strategic partnerships for the the New York City Department of Education. The three-day-a week job paid her a salary of $1 and had the goal of raising private money the New York City public schools. In her capacity, she helped raise more than $65 million for the city’s public schools, according to her biography at the Kennedy Library. She currently serves as the Vice Chair of The Fund for Public Schools, a public-private partnership founded in 2002 to attract private funding for public schools in New York City.

In addition, Kennedy is currently President of the Kennedy Library Foundation, a director of both the Commission on Presidential Debates and the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, and Honorary Chairman of the American Ballet Theatre. She is also an adviser to the Harvard Institute of Politics, a living memorial to her father.

___________________________________________________________

Gee, who would want that as their senator

:crazy:

[kikiek]

20. Reading the threads here would make you think the Kennedy's haven't supported

the progressive causes..ever. Just unreal.

[LynneSin]

22. Yes that horrible woman, did you see that salary she was making working for NY Public Schools

and for what they paid her you'd think she'd raise more than a paltry $65million in 2 years. Makes you think she only cares about those kids rich enough to go to public school

:sarcasm:


(and if you don't know she was paid a whooping $1 for that job)

[Captain Hilts]

30. Ted Kennedy does not accept his salary...

and Eleanor Roosevelt never picked up her widows check.

That's what good Democrats do.

[LynneSin]

50. McCain is married to someone worth $100k and he still collects $50k/year for disability

I appreciate the sacrifice that McCain has made for our country but honestly, if I was worth that many millions I"d forgo the check or donate it to a charity that helps our veterans

[Captain Hilts]

51. Disgusting. nt

[SwampG8r]

44. dont sneeze at that single dollar

she could buy a lottery ticket with that buck and make millions!




do i need a sarcasm thingee?

[Ozma]

64. No, I think you did make a good point, sarcasm and all. n/t

[ellie]

14. Thank you

[bottomtheweaver]

15. Howie Feltersnatch would do a MUCH better job

of representing Bugtusslevilleberg in upstate New York. Isn't that obvious to EVERYONE?!?

[Tatiana]

21. PREACH IT.

It's insanity, I swear.

[sohndrsmith]

32. I remember how I felt when I first heard about Clinton's run for

NY Senate. As a NYer, I was mad (many were thrilled - clearly - she won, no?). But I was mad and my first thought was the sense of being used as a stepping stone to further a personal political career... that it was about her, not the greater good or public service.

I have no idea how accurate that feeling is or was, but historically, many of her actions since and prior have only bolstered the argument, never dissolving it. I didn't see integrity, and I still don't - but I do see less self-destructive ambition, maybe maturity. Again, these are nothing more than my personal perceptions given a lot of years and a lot of things I am not too happy about... and a sense of dishonesty that I wish would somehow be disproven or disqualified in some formal way. It makes me uncomfortable and unhappy and skeptical.

I have not gotten the same sense of breeze-in entitlement or power-play election nonsense that I did in the other case... and maybe it's because I'm missing something.

More accurately, I think what is missing is the manipulative self-interest. I just don't see it and I don't see any past evidence of it either. And I'm not mad that Kennedy is pretending to be part of NY, as I did feel years ago in another circumstance... Kennedy was born in NY - whoa - she's more of a NYer than I am, I was born in CT (it was the closest hospital to our home, that I grew up in, in NY)... Okay, so I was a native Connecticut-er for half a day, maybe... lived 40 years in NY... what does that make me and does it matter? If I never lived in NY and adopted it as my "home" state, that shouldn't matter either... it just - the timing and the feeling... it was not a good thing. It felt ugly and not quite honest, somehow... I didn't say that much, it didn't seem like I found a lot of people who agreed with me. Even then, saying anything negative against the Clinton's was somehow heresy... even if it's what I believed just as a person without clout or Republican leanings whatsoever. Just a person who felt... uncomfortable.

The state one was born in really isn't relevant, but I really felt manipulated when NY became "home".... to the previous Senator. It seemed so calculated - a move not to be a part of or improve NY but to improve the creds towards a presidential run. Maybe I had it all wrong. Funny, though... considering how stuff worked out.

I find it a little annoying that Kennedy is being compared to Clinton as far as having expectations or a sense of entitlement. I don't think the two could be any more different, and it's not just my intuition that bears this out, there's a lot of history to support the fact that these people are not the same, nor are the cut of the same cloth... it's tough to swallow the idea that they are.

If anyone can point out how Kennedy is putting ambition and clout before service in any reasonable way, I'd really find that interesting. I simply don't see how that works. Maybe I'm missing something....

[Beacool]

33. It's not all about the primaries.

Caroline is being offered the seat over far more qualified candidates for only two reasons: she's a Kennedy and she endorsed Obama.

If there was an election and she wanted to run I would have no problem with it whatsoever, but to hand over a senate seat to someone who hasn't ran for anything in her life is undemocratic IMO.

Caroline wants a senate seat? Well, let her put together a campaign, come up with a platform, hold fundraisers, spend months campaigning in every county of the state, eating junk and sleeping little; and then she would have earned the right to people's votes. Like Hillary and everybody else had to do to win their senate seat.

[CTyankee]

36. She will have to do that if she wants to be re-elected, but this is an appointment

due to the resignation of a sitting senator. That means, Beacool, that ANYONE up for Hillary's seat at this time will be appointed, they will NOT have to run.

All of the things that you say she will have to do, she will have to do in 2010.

And this is not the first time in the history of our Republic that a senator has been appointed to fill out a seat left open by a death, resignation, imprisonment, etc.

Be patient and wait for 2010. Then you'll see whether you are right or not, OK?

[EFerrari]

38. You say "being a Kennedy and supporting Obama" like they're bad things.

[Beacool]

56. Neither one is a bad thing,

but neither one necessarily qualifies you to be a senator.

;-)

[EFerrari]

57. Both do in the real world. n/t

:)

[Beacool]

59. If you want to consider politics the "real world"...........

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

60. Where do you think Senators come from? The cabbage patch?

[DevonRex]

62. Okay, you're cracking me up here.

Thanks for injecting some much needed humor into the thread. :)

[dionysus]

65. .

:spray:

[Beacool]

88. The rarefied environment of the senate is not the real world.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

91. First you argue that Kennedy is too removed from the "real" world

now you argue, the Senate is.

Sounds like a good fit, according to you.

[SwampG8r]

46. so you feel hillary had a fair election?

hey gator
im not trying to snark you i swear
but it was my understanding that many native NY state dems were looking at a run for the seat hillary got and were persuaded to abandon those plans

also what other candidates for the office can you name for the seat?



and ps i got an awesome 8 foot tall inflatable albert for my front yard

[Beacool]

53. Hi Gator, I'm not referring to the party nomination.

Yes, Hillary did run unopposed in the Dem. primary (then again, so did Obama when he ran for both senates after the other candidates were disqualified), but she had to run in the GE against a Republican and prove her worth to New York voters. She worked her butt off to gain their vote, she just didn't waltz into the job as if the senate was the House of Lords and it was her hereditary right.

I have no preference as far as the other candidates go, I'm fine with Cuomo, Maloney or anyone else who has already ran in the state.

Cool about Albert!!!! Put a Christmas hat and a garland on him and he'll be ready for the season.

BTW, I'm going home to Palm Beach this Saturday until the 4th. Yiiipppiii!!!! :woohoo:

[ieoeja]

71. Obama ran against six other Democrats for the US Senate.

Daniel W. Hynes
M. Blair Hull
Maria Pappas
Gery Chico
Nancy Skinner
Joyce Washington

Hynes and Hull were the early front-runners. In fact, I recognized all six of the above names before that race while Obama was a name I and most of Illinois had never heard of. Obama came from dead last to a landslide victory.

But keep up the good fight! You can still get Hillary in there if you can just get rid of Obama, Biden, Pelosi and Byrd before any of their replacements can be named. You might make it yet.

[Beacool]

87. Simpler yet,

she can run again at a future date.

:D

[SwampG8r]

96. but no matter who is named

they wont have to run until 2010
so why not her if someone is going to just "waltz in"?

[SoxFan]

49. Ask Nita Lowey how fair the process was in 2000

[Beacool]

54. Well Nita chose to withdraw then and also did now too.

:shrug:

[Metric System]

39. Yawn. ANOTHER Hillary vs. Caroline thread.

[goclark]

40. Bingo!

[WI_DEM]

43. Caroline Kennedy would be a fabulous choice and a good senator.

[polichick]

47. *GASP* Can a Clinton be a carpetbagger?!?

[Catherine Vincent]

48. What the h does Hillary have to do with Ms. Caroline wanting a Senate seat?

There are no more "Hillary supporters". We are all Democrats and support President Elect Obama and all Democrats.

[Lucky 13]

55. Well, it's the ardent Hillary supporters that are throwing the biggest fit about Caroline...

... am I to ignore simple observation? And sadly no... not all support President-Elect Obama and all Democrats. Some support one family and one family alone.

[paulk]

66. if that is true then you have to also admit that the opposite is true

and ask yourself what motive those people have...

[Lucky 13]

68. Yes, let's twist this and use circular logic!

Tell me why it's largely hardcore Clinton supporters vocally opposing Caroline. Hillary today came out and told her idiot supporters to knock it the fuck off.

[paulk]

74. what twist?

since you've got this theory about Clinton supporters, tell me why it's largely hardcore Obama supporters who are so vocally supporting Kennedy? 'Cause that seems to be the trend on this board.

Maybe there is something more fundamental to this.

Maybe if you actually put some thought into one of your posts you could come up with something other than the usual insults? Like "idiot Clinton supporters"? I mean, thanks so much for adding to this debate.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

85. Did you register today just to tell me that?

:eyes:

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Caroline is WAY more qualified than Hillary was when she ran for the Senate. GMAB!

[Beacool]

58. Yeah, how so?

:eyes:

[paulk]

67. why does Hillary Clinton have anything to do with this?

you are the one that is still refighting the primaries.

[Sebastian Doyle]

81. Maybe because it's Hillary and her PUMA proxies that are opposing the possibility

of Caroline Kennedy becoming a Senator? :shrug:

[paulk]

86. inflammatory nonsense

[Lucky 13]

70. It's definitely not Hillary that's the problem here.

It's her rabid, foaming-at-the mouth, supporters. They won't even listen to the Goddess-of-Peace herself anymore. Hillary came out today and told them to STFU about Kennedy. Do they respect her request? Nope. And why? Cause the Clintons created a monster with these fucking nutjobs. They are beyond her control, they operate in the complete absence of logic, and they prove themselves to be hypocritical foolish assholes on a daily basis.

Here's my barometer for decision-making... if something is pissing off the Freepers AND pissing off the rabid Hillary supporters... it's the exact right thing to do. Caroline Kennedy appears to be doing both. Point. Set. Match. Kennedy.

[Beacool]

90. Oh please, no more nutjobs than the Obama supporters

who are waxing poetic over a NY socialite being qualified to be a US senator. Welcome to the House of Lords where seats are hereditary.

Oh, and nice job of trashing Hillary. If I call Obama the Secular Messiah would that be appropriate? I think not. So what's with this bullshit about "Goddess of Peace"?

:eyes:

[Ewellian]

93. Nutjob?

NYS resident here....I voted for Hillary in the primary and Obama in the general.
I am against Caroline Kennedy for the Senate because I believe we need someone from Upstate NY in that seat.
My mind is open though...let's she how she handles a town meeting in Lowville with a room full of dairy farmers.

[Muttocracy]

99. upstate is just a bunch of dumb irrelevant hicks according to some in this thread

:(

[LostinVA]

72. Hillary Clinton was not a carpetbagger -- you are misusing the term

And, it's a very Freeper word in its definition and origin. Carpetbaggers were usually a very good thing for a community.

And, wtf does Hillary ahev to do with any of this anyway? Oh wait -- no one's been able to slag her for a week or so. :eyes:

[Sebastian Doyle]

82. How was she not a carpetbagger?

Hillary never lived in New York before she ran for office there. She could have run for the Senate in Arkansas, or even Illinois and nobody would have questioned a claim of residency in either state (just as nobody questioned Elizabeth Dole running in North Carolina, the state of her birth, despite living in Kansas for decades)

And Hillary shouldn't have anything to do with it. But all the opposition to Caroline certainly seems to be coming from those who are still pissed off that she supported Obama in the primaries.

[democrattotheend]

73. I'm just glad she didn't run in Illinois in 2004

Apparently she considered waiting to run in Illinois in 2004 instead of running in NY in 2000. If she had done that most of us probably would not have heard of Barack Obama right now. I wonder if she wishes she had run in Illinois instead.

[DevonRex]

75. It's only a few who are eviscerating Caroline. Most like her and either want

her to get the seat or are fine with it if she does. Let's not paint too broad a brush, because that isn't fair. I understand how you felt when you wrote this, but now the Hillary supporters who like Caroline are speaking up. They're tired of this, too.

[Sultana]

76. WORD!

I am sick & tired of Hillary supporters.

[LostinVA]

79. Tsk tsk -- "I am sick & tired of Hillary supporters"

[DevonRex]

80. Really, it is only a FEW who don't want Caroline to get the seat. All the rest

are fine with it and some are enthusiastic. Let's not allow their good names and intentions to be smeared just because of a few.

There are also quite a few who had supported other candidates who don't want Caroline to get the seat.

[Beacool]

89. Well, I'm sick and tired of the Obama supporters,

but I'm stuck with the lot of you. So, I feel your pain.....

:7

[Metric System]

97. I love all the different ways they find to rehash the primaries. They're so creative that way.

[political_Dem]

84. Thank you for saying this.

Ms. Kennedy-Schlossberg ought to lobby for the seat. There is no reason why she shouldn't.


Furthermore, the difference between Ms.Kennedy-Schlossberg and the former Senator from New York is the fact that Caroline doesn't have a propensity for drama and doesn't try to pad her resume. Even a comparison of the dispositions between the two women is telling.

[Phx_Dem]

92. Amen.

[IsItJustMe]

94. That is what I am talking about. Tell it like it is.