If more people care about gays, guns, and abortion rights

[Sandpiper]

Than issues that actually affect their lives, like jobs, wages, healthcare, a return of the draft...

Then maybe the country deserves four more years of Bush.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I'm not fond of the manner in which you phrased that

I care about civil rights.

[Warpy]

5. I picked up on that, too

My right to control what happens to my own body is also issue #1 for me.

This country deserves better than another four years of fascism. That there's a significant number of dimwits who are a-skeert that Osama bin Laden is gonna shoot up Main Street is beside the point. Being a pro Bush dimwit is punishment in and of itself. Don't curse the country with it.

[Sandpiper]

6. I'm sorry

No offense intended.

The point is, the Repukes have nothing but wedge issues.

The sad part is to see how many people care more about wedge issues than substantive issues.

Which is going to affect Joe Sixpack's life, a gay couple gets married, or the factory where he works gives him a pink slip and moves to India?

Too many Joe Sixpack's care more about the former and not the latter.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. I know and I knew your intentions weren't to offend

was just pointing out that in underscoring the "wedge" issues, you kind of discredited the support of those rights.

[blondeatlast]

2. 'Scuse me, but...

:wtf:

[Meshuga]

3. DOn't hold your breath... n/t

[daddybear]

4. How cruel...

NO ONE alive "deserves" another day of Bush's lies and drunken squalor! Heaven forbid.

[Raya]

8. NO. They now care about TERRA TERRA TERA. Bush still wins.

[Misunderestimator]

9. What the... Are you serious?

How on earth do civil rights and long standing abortion rights not affect our lives? What's your point in posting this? How about healthcare for the partner of a gay American? How about discrimination in hiring that allows many states to not hire or fire someone because they are gay and are not protected by anti-discrimination policies or laws (like where I live, and the company I work for)? And speaking of lives... how about a woman whose doctor knows that she will die if she gives birth, but is not allowed to perform an abortion that would save her life?

[Nimrod]

11. I read the original post differently

Abortions don't have any direct effect on people who do not have abortions, and yet men make up the majority of anti-choicers.

I don't think the post was saying that these items aren't important, I think it's talking about people who will vote for someone who'll protect us from gay marriage rather than someone who can help get food on our tables.

[Misunderestimator]

12. That's not at all how I read it.

I read it as "All you Kerry-supporters, stop whining about inconsequential things like gay rights and women's rights to their own bodies, because there are more important things."

Just so you know... a gay person fired from his job because of a bigoted manager, has no recourse because he/she is not protected... and without a job, it would be pretty damn hard to put food on the table.

There are thousands of issues that need to be addressed. Saying that we should focus on only a few that affect the majority of Americans (and ignoring the minorities) is counter-productive. Why can't all the issues be addressed? The RW has no problem addressing all theirs.

And I'm sick of gay rights being seen as the anathema to a successful campaign, when WE didn't make it an issue.

As for people who will vote for someone who'll protect us from gay marriage RATHER than someone who can help get food on our tables... there really is no swaying them. They already have their own perception of the democratic platform. Us throwing all those inconsequential things aside that don't affect the majority of Americans is not going to change their minds.

[Nimrod]

14. I can agree to disagree

But even you must admit that there is an uncomfortable number of people who will vote for * based on his stance against gays, ignoring and/or justifying all else.

THAT is what I believe the original post is saying.

By the way, I'm FULLY aware that a gay person fired from his job is not protected and is going to have a hard time putting food on the table. Kindly direct your anger at someone who deserves it. To combat discrimination you must see where it is, and part of THAT is to see where it isn't. AND before you decide to tell me I couldn't possibly understand, I'll be happy to tell you about a certain man in my life.

But a gay person fired from a job because his department outsourced to India isn't doing any better than the one who was fired for being gay. The gay person who can't get health insurance because there is none he can afford isn't doing any better than the one who can't get it because he's gay.

There is nothing inconsequential about discrimination. But if the jobs aren't there to begin with, gays aren't going to have them anyway.

[Misunderestimator]

15. But what do you think it would accomplish to bury the issue of gay

rights now? Do you think those homophobic people who would vote for Bush solely on that premise would change their mind three months before the election, simply because the democratic party (theoretically) buries the issue? I think we have capitulated enough in that our candidate is saying that he is not for gay marriage, but for civil unions. Should he say that he is against ALL gay rights? The RW will STILL continue to harp on it and make it an issue whether we like it or not.

And, I'm fully aware of gay Americans who want to put this on a back-burner... I am one of them. It will NOT stop the Bush campaign from using it as a wedge issue.

[Nimrod]

16. I think you're reading WAY too much into this

Besides, you're preaching to the choir here.

In my own opinion - how I interpreted the original post was as an expression of disgust and frustration over the proliferation of emotional issues that can be reduced down to sound-bytes while huge country and world-encompassing issues get swept under the rug because the average American doesn't have the attention span to follow them.

I share this frustration myself. Deeply.

I'm pissed as hell at people who would vote for a single issue while the country teeters on the edge of the toilet. I'd love to beat the hell out of every dumbass redneck who would vote to get rid of gay marriage and in the process support someone who's won us the contempt and hatred of practically every nation in the world. I despise * for introducing the whole gay marriage issue just to exploit the sheer ignorance of the American populace who are falling for such a brain-dead diversionary tactic. I despise those ignorant assholes even more because they're allowing it to work. Happy now?

This is not a should/could/maybe or any offer of a course of action. It was merely an expression of frustration and anger. You obviously also have a lot of frustration and anger (that is 100% justified in my opinion). The only reason I responded to your post is because I think you're misdirecting that anger at this particular moment in time.

I sincerely hope you have not taken serious offense at my comments. If you have, I apologize.

[Misunderestimator]

17. I'm reacting purely to the title of the thread and what follows

"If more people care about gays, guns, and abortion rights than issues that actually affect their lives, like jobs, wages, healthcare, a return of the draft...

Then maybe the country deserves four more years of Bush."

If it were worded to say:

"If more people care about women, children, and workers' rights than issues that actually affect their lives.... "

would it be more obvious why it's troublesome?

I'm not taking offense at anything, and I know that the choir here is all for civil rights. I completely understand the need to prioritize the issues, but to discount certain of them altogether... no.

In any case, I'm not angry, just tired of hearing this same mantra as if anyone here started it.

[Sandpiper]

18. Civil Rights are important

Extremely important. And I fully support the fight for equality.

The only point I'm trying to make is how easily the wingnuts are able to convince some people that equal rights for gays will somehow make their lives worse. Ditto on the abortion issue.

And what I was clumsily trying to say is, if it's more important to someone that they prevent gays from having equal rights than it is if they have living wages or health insurance for their children, then they probably deserve a President like Bush.

[Misunderestimator]

19. Ok, now that makes sense. I agree.

I guess I've just read too many posts here that seem to insinuate that gay rights and abortion rights are not as important as this or that (which is how your original post reads to me).

All good... and thanks for the explanation, now I understand what you meant. :toast:

[Nimrod]

10. Something I've said a lot

For the 1.26 people who follow my posts, I apologize for the repetition. :)

You don't have to convince anyone that gay marriage is more important than keeping food on the table. You don't have to convince anyone of anything.

The trick, you see, is to spread the feeling of isolation and powerlessness. Rather than telling you that homosexuals getting married is more important than your lack of health insurance, they tell you that everyone ELSE thinks homosexuals getting married is more important than your lack of health insurance. This makes you feel alone and powerless, and discourages you from questioning anything that happens. It maintains the illusion of a majority rule while letting the ruling class make all the decisions without anyone else's desires into account.

Someday - MAYBE - people will realize that there are about 300 million more of us than there are of them. It's going to take awhile but it's already in motion. Basically our masters are going to get lazy and overconfident and allow a few more of us to go without food rather than tossing us enough bones and scraps to keep us distracted.

Something INTERESTING will happen that day, I'll bet.

[AntiCoup2K4]

13. "Terra" IS a wedge issue

The idea that "terraists" are waiting to blow up Grandma's house the minute you vote for a Democrat is every bit as ridiculous as the idea that gay marriages will cause snowstorms in Phoenix in July.

Both are bullshit exaggerations based on nothing but fear.

[secular_warrior]

20. It's time Democrats stopped running from core issues

Our civil rights can't protect themselves.

Republicans don't "agree to disagree" on anything, and neither should we.

Instead, we should be convincing America that our worldview is the correct and morally just one.

There can be no other way, IMO, if we are to become a majority party. Ceding important gains we have in the social arena over the past 40yrs would be a grave mistake. It's tempting to want to return to the New Deal Coalition, which was united only on economic issues, but there's a reason that coalition split up...

[IndianaGreen]

21. How many Democrats in Congress oppose same sex marriage...

How many Democrats in Congress oppose same sex marriage, voted for restrictions on abortions, and want to keep citizens from arming themselves?