Obama's big test: GOP leaders are actually right on auto bailout

[sampsonblk]

Looks like the GOP leadership is lining up behind the idea that the auto industry cannot keep building the same junk and expect to survive. My view (and the view of many DUers) has been that if we do bail them out, it should be with the requirement that they focus anew on fuel-efficient cars as a way to survive, and not as a mere novelty.

Dem leadership seems to be quietly lining up behind the idea that we have to bail out the auto giants. I don't see any type of agreement on any strings being attached at all. I think that's bad politics, bad leadership, and it will not go over well with the public at all.

---/-/---
Showdown looming in Congress over automaker rescue (AP)

WASHINGTON – Hardline opponents of an auto industry bailout branded the industry a "dinosaur" whose "day of reckoning" is near, while Democrats pledged Sunday to do their best to get Detroit a slice of the $700 billion Wall Street rescue in this week's lame-duck session of Congress...

Senate Democrats intended to introduce legislation Monday attaching an auto bailout to a House-passed bill extending unemployment benefits; a vote was expected as early as Wednesday.

A White House alternative would let the car companies take $25 billion in loans previously approved to develop fuel-efficient vehicles and use the money for more immediate needs. Congressional Democrats oppose the White House plan as shortsighted...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081117/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_bailout


I hope Obama steps in here. In my view, this is a crucial first test. Even though he isnt in office yet, the results of this particular bailout will belong to him. Hopefully he can convince Spkr Pelosi and Sen Reid to attach some energy-efficiency strings to this bailout. The GOP should not get any credit on this issue.

[babylonsister]

1. You are wrong, and why are you posting this? "GOP is right?" ???

I would prefer you had some faith in PE Obama and what he will do. You don't know that, do you.

If they are right, he'll agree. But you saying so doesn't work. Just dumb imo.

[dkf]

2. Obama would be the first to agree with that statement if he

felt it was true.

I think everyone knows the big 3 need to change or it is just a money pit anyway.

[Trajan]

3. "GOP Leaders are actually right"

Im with Babylonsister on that point .... FUCK that : They are NEVER right ...

You get extra points if you can Strawman our own party too ....

[babylonsister]

5. And for my opinion I get this:

I have never seen you fly off the handle like that. Maybe you just had too much coffee. I don't know. But go back and re-read what you just wrote.

I donlt mind if you disagree with me. But there is no excuse for you to act like one of them.

I accept your apology in advance.

[Trajan]

24. Hun ? ... You have my absolute apology ....

But I was agreeing with you ....

Im a bit confused, and now, in my early morning stupor, I must drink MORE coffee, and try to figure out what I said that was so offensive ....

I said the statement 'The GOP is always right' is wrong .. it is invalid ... not true ....

I also said it would be wrong to misrepresent how Democrats feel about the primary subject matter, and not allow 'Strawman' representations to fill in for the real opinions of Democrats ...

Hun ? ... Even when I disagree with you, I have always done so respectfully .... But I dont see where I disagreed with you, or could have possibly offended you in any way ...

It could be because, sometimes, I am a dunderhead who cannot see a reality if it was hanging off my nose and dangling in front of my eyes .... If that is the case, then I am wholly embarrassed ....

In any case: Please accept my apology, as no offense was intended, and I will take back what I said, as soon as I can figure out what that was ....

[w4rma]

4. Not even a little bit. (nt)

[ProgressiveEconomist]

6. Aren't most outspoken Rs favoring letting GM et al go bankrupt? Careful analysts

of the bankruptcy option opine that--

--reorganization in bankruptcy would take at least 2 years,

--few consumers would make a long-term investment in a car produced by an in-court bankrupt that might not be able to provide service and parts, and thus

-- the bankruptcy option would finally allow the Japanese to take virtually all of the world auto market.

Thus IMO the OP is EXTREMELY misleading and "spun" like cotton candy.

[Kalyke]

30. I agree with you.

Most Republicans I've seen on talk shows are for letting them fail, putting millions out of work and saying, "sayonara," to any production in this country.

Oh - and, to the OP, most people don't agree with letting them fail.

[babylonsister]

7. Huh? Because I don't agree with you I'm wrong? I don't think so. nt

[backscatter712]

8. Congress had better put more strings on this bailout.

They need to do quite a few things - like requiring the automakers to make greener vehicles, protect the pensions and benefits and pay of their workers, and provide an airtight audit-trail and tight accountability for how all the money's spent.

No more Paulson style "Just give us the money and don't ask questions!" bailouts. STRICT ACCOUNTABILITY FOR EVERY DIME!!!

[sampsonblk]

20. Zactly (nt)

[Hippo_Tron]

9. I was against a bailout but I'm reconsidering my position

My dad knows a bit more about the auto industry than I do and he says that Detroit really has improved its fuel efficiency standards to the point where the Japanese don't really make better cars anymore. The big cost difference is that they have universal health care and we don't. If the industry can re-negotiate the union contracts so that they don't have to pay so much in health care benefits keeping in mind that the President and Congress will pass a new health care package soon anyway, then their business model might not be sustainable. Forcing them to build green cars is another important step too.

[cyclezealot]

12. along with pension funding. US Corps' have a huge disadvantage.

and GM recently put 7 billion to assure the well being of their retiree funds.. These funds they needed in r and d... Your dad is correct... Yes, they marketed fuel inefficient SUV"s because they were so profitable, but that is what the American people wanted.. And how soon will new companies pick up the slack and put the newly unemployed 3 million back to work .. Years.. Best way to keep 3 million at work is demand the Big 3 put out the kinds of American built cars, Americans will soon need.

[NashVegas]

29. "marketing" ... and "Americans Wanted"

You do realize that a large - HUGH! - part of marketing depends on creating a demand that people didn't previously have?

There was an old Toyota commercial in the very early 1990s, when the SUV market was in its second stage (growing from an enthusiasts' market to a family market). A good looking, white, 30-ish man was working out in a public gym when an announcer said over the PA, "The owner of the min-van must move their vehicle or we'll have to tow." The gentleman in question looked around the room sheepishly and, IIRC, did nothing and let it get hauled away rather than be caught driving a mini-van in a roomful of SUV users.

That's marketing.

[This One]

10. I'm in favor of a "bailout" if...

the Big 3 can pull their collective heads out of their asses and start making cars people want. They need to put timetables for producing fuel efficient and hybrid/alternative fuel vehicles, freeze union benefits, and prohibit bonuses to executives for almost bankrupting the industry. GM's market cap is only $1.8 billion. For $25 billion, you could buy and sell GM several times over. The government could buy a controlling interest in GM and have a say in what they produce.

[boppers]

11. "previously approved"?

What does this have to do with the 750M, then?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

13. Pelosi has already indicated that "strings" would be attached to the bailout.

Washington
Pelosi says auto bailout is likely — with strings
The Associated Press
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 11.16.2008
advertisement
WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Saturday that the House would provide aid to the ailing U.S. auto industry, requiring that the industry meet new fuel-efficiency standards, produce advanced vehicles and restructure "to ensure their long-term economic viability."
Pelosi, D-Calif., did not disclose the amount of funding House leaders intend to seek for the industry — automakers have been seeking $25 billion in loans to stabilize their sinking companies.
But she said the funding should come from the $700 billion financial bailout approved by Congress in October.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/news/267459.php

[Sensitivity]

14. Big 3 bailout could drain ALL the money that could be targetted at creating NEW electric transit

without solving the real problem. That is the historical record -- they have used token projects to con congress for decades while continuing to kill innovatin and seek easy short-term profits.

[TexasObserver]

15. Nope!! The GOP is wrong.

And you are falling for their sucker punch. You see, if Democrats do nothing, the GOP will then point to loss of jobs that show up in the coming months.

[FrenchieCat]

16. You are incorrect in this.....

Strings have to be attached, and Obama clearly said that this evening on 60 Minutes, if anyone saw it and was paying attention.

It isn't that the Gop is right or wrong....it is that they are irrelevant, because they are the reason that we are where we are. They never did anything in congress to force the mordenization of the Auto Industry; get them to build cars that were more gas efficient, etc....

So no, they are not only NOT right, but they are not willing to be accountable for what their theories caused.

In fact...they ain't worth shit.

[sampsonblk]

22. Well, we agree on that

It seems that I hae offended some by my choice of words. But we can all agree that they aint worth shit.

[JJ]

17. Right Wingers want to destroy unions in America

and they are willing to destroy an entire industry, and millions of families in the process.

The next crisis will be the trucking industry, and they'll use it to try and destroy the Teamsters.

[hlthe2b]

18. Exactly.... Those will be the "strings" the RW ties to the deal

The OP, in their need to credit REPUGs and criticize a supposed Obama position-- that he has not yet taken-- fails to realize this.

[CANDO]

27. BINGO!

The real reason behind the GOP's assault on public schools is it's hatred for Teachers Unions. And that transfers to this issue as well. They would like nothing more than the Big 3 to fail because they would probably come back to life as a new non-union entity.

[Barack_America]

31. Yep. That is certainly the GOP's primary objective here. nt

[Indi Guy]

19. Barack initiated talks w/Bush re: saving America's auto makers. Bush has cold feet here - so...

...what's your point??? :shrug:

[sampsonblk]

21. My point is, we can't just GIVE the automakers the money

A bailout has to be about something. If all its about is them getting bailed out, that's just as bad as teh previous bailout.

The automakers should have to come out of this greener. No more of this SUV garbage. No more Hummers.

[ej510]

23. Gop is slowly ridding the country of unions.

[IsItJustMe]

25. My view is that this country damn well better bail these automakers out because they are the back

bone of this country. There are so many jobs connected to these automakers and they are also the last main manufacturing industries in this country.

As GM goes, so goes the country. Believe me no or wait for the depression. This whole damn mind set that is being spewed out by Republicans and the msm is dangerous.

[Jennicut]

26. We can't let the auto industry fail, just like we let everything else go ass up

without regulation and then we had to bail them out in the end anyways. The automakers were starting to be more innovative but the credit crunch hurt them as well. Stupidity to let 3 million plus jobs go down in flames in a weak economy where unemployment is getting higher by the second.

[azmouse]

28. American cars aren't junk.

[Median Democrat]

32. What About The Pontiac Aztec?

Or, the Chevrolet Cobalt, which is poster car for the U.S. automakers' fuel efficient = POS mentality. Even luxury cars like the Cadillac STS also suck. Foreign automakers, of course, sometimes make sucky cars, but the difference is that we are not trying to save them. Likewise, I don't see anyone shedding any tears about the poor sales of the Nissan Titan. Again, the difference is that we are not saving Nissan or Toyota.

My take is that massive reorganization might be helpful where the U.S. auto divisions that make good cars like the Chevy Malibu survive, but the poor performing divisions fail. We should not subsidize the Big Three to make poor selling gas guzzling cars. The Big Three relied heavily on SUVs while the competition like Toyota and Honda went against the grain and explored hybrids.

Sadly, the U.S. DOES no hot to make fuel efficient cars that are not POS's...in Europe. The U.S. has only recently begun to retool domestic plants to make these cars in the U.S., but is it too late?

[butterfly77]

33. WRONG!