What is your opinion on the documents now (forgeries or not)?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

Poll question: What is your opinion on the documents now (forgeries or not)?

I myself was momentarily taken by the spin, but am now convinced they are authentic.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Just think about it: how were they possible forged?

They came from the Department of Defense. The DoD acknowledges that those are the memos they sent. Since that's the case, who forged them? Bush's own people who are in charge over at DoD? Yeah, that makes a lot of fucking sense... :eyes:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. Tell the media to ask those questions. eom

[Minimus]

3. i believe it is yet another way for the media to divert

attention to the real issue of bush's service (actually lack of service)

[Love Bug]

4. Look at the timing, here

The documents are released, the WH doesn't challenge their authenticity, but almost right away a third party does. This is SOP every time some news comes out they don't like-- they depend on a third party to do their dirty work for them. Honest to ghod, you can set your watch by it.

[The Magistrate]

5. No Evidence Whatever, Sir, Has Emerged To Support Claims Of Forgery

Evidence to support the authenticity of the documents includes the testimony of persons who worked with the Colonel at the time the documents are dated to, and the testimony of the network's own experts who clearly investigated the documents for several weeks and judged them authentic.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[asjr]

11. I certainly believe they are authentic. The Rove Spin Machine is kicking

in here now. CBS would not put itself in jeopardy. They have decided to throw away the Rove menu and think for themselves. Thank goodness they have, because the others like CNN especially, are following orders from this administration. This makes me so angry. I will not allow the media to try to tell me how to vote.

[Mr.Green93]

6. the real issue

is the seriousness of the charge. Others said this is what the Col. was thinking.

[jsw_81]

7. They're almost certainly forgeries

Hate to say it, but I have seen more than enough evidence (on this site and others) to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt that these documents are forgeries.

Anyone who thinks that they're "authentic" is simply in denial about the situation.

[geek tragedy]

9. Wait until CBS produces the source and the typewriter.

Better yet, check out this kos thread:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/10/34914/1603

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. You obviously haven't seen enough evidence

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/10/34914/1603

[Snivi Yllom]

19. I think only one doc was real

and the rest were forgeries.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

29. I agree.

After actually seeing the docs at the WaPo site, I was suprised.

[SayitAintSo]

30. You think this is "Niger Yellowcake Plame Payback" ? n/t

[Renew Deal]

8. You forgot, I was skeptical, but now I am convinced they are real.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. so use the 3rd choice

geeeeeeeeeeez!

[Awsi Dooger]

13. The world is anything you make it

Summon a few purported facts and allow a gullible mind to create a good story. Remember, if the deceased is at all famous or important, the guy standing over the body with the gun is never the one who actually pulled the trigger. Then assert the rest of the planet must disprove your theory, not the other way around. Conspiracies are pathetically cloned. The words change a little bit.

[genius]

14. CBS's experts authenticated them. CBS is Republican.

They were also subpoenaed. Did the military forge them. Also, CBS found someone who verified the info.

[Qutzupalotl]

15. I go back and forth.

At first the superscript and curled apostrophes threw me. It smacked of Microsoft Word. Then I find out that some typewriters were available to do those things. Also looked closely at the capital Y...it's not Times New Roman. The 7 hangs below the baseline. The letters jump up and down on the page, suggesting a typewriter. So now I'm a believer again.

Hopefully the original papers will surface and can be examined for impressions consistent with a typewriter.

Attacking the messenger is SOP. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the contents of the documents are not disputed by the White House. In other words, it's not the documents, it's the fact that Bush was negligent and disobeyed a direct order, allegedly because of drug use.

[Qutzupalotl]

24. Here's why I'm a believer now:

That poster yesterday with his meaningless half-size blurry composite can kiss my ass.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Qutzupalotl]

18. This post disputes the forgery claim well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=782122#782150
It's not Times New Roman. Contemporary typewriters had a "th" superscript character and curled apostrophes. The documents came from the military, who are unlikely to have forged them. The White House has not disputed their contents or their authenticity.

[Gothmog]

17. CBS would not gone with story w/o verification

The fact that the memos were vetted by the author's superiors is strong proof that they are real. It was no secrete that Bush was using his political connections to get out of duty and evidently many people knew about it.

[Red State Rebel]

37. His son is now saying he and his stepmother both told CBS

they didn't think the documents were authentic for several reasons and they went with the story anyway. If CBS took the bait from someone with an ulterior motive just to get a story I'm gonna be pissed.

Every news outlet is saying they are forgeries or alleged forgeries and we are the ones that are going to look guilty if they are. As much as everyone in DU is putting the love to CBS they are going to be on my shit list if these documents are fakes. It will have done us tremendous damage.

[Walt Starr]

20. I was convinced from the beginning

but just compared the signatures and am not so sure any longer.

I'll reserve judgement.

[WilliamPitt]

21. Other - see sig link

[rinsd]

22. Could a reserving judgement choice be added?

I am just not sure right now. I think the dust will settle within a few days.

[goodhue]

25. Why in the world would you think they are forgeries?

Just curious.

[RichardRay]

23. Never a reason to think they are fake

1) I worked on an IBM Selectric in the late 60's/early 70's. I typed thousands of pages of manuscript. These documents don't raise any question for my experience nor for my intuition.

2) The DoD is not exactly a hotbed of liberal conspiracy. If someone had come forward from Berkely waving copies claimed to have been liberated from an unnamed DoD document archive containing thousands of pages of purged records kept there at the behest of the Great Right Wing Conspiracy, then I'd be pretty sceptical of the authenticity.
While I might still WANT to believe in them I'd probably need more convincing then I've received to date.

3) CBS is not a hotbed of liberal conspiracy, either. Unless they had some Machiavellian scheme to claim the documents' authenticity, then prove themselves wrong and make an even bigger story about document forgery I think they'd have done their due diligence. Unlike some here I don't perceive all media as hot beds of right wing conspiract, either. They're businesses trying to build ratings on viewer perception of their perspacacity - falling victim to a forgery hoax of this magnitude wouldn't serve their long term interests.

If I'm wrong then Rove et al are just too smart for me - they've put together a bad conspiracy and sold it to somebody I thought was smarter than that. But I don't think so.

Richard Ray - Jackson Hole, WY

[goodhue]

26. why was this even a legit question?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

27. Has 60 minutes ever done a retraction?

Not that I'm aware of and it's been on the air 30+ years. They didn't air this story without verifying the facts.

[last_texas_dem]

28. Dan Rather coming out swinging...

...defending their authenticity made me more convinced of their legitimacy. I was a little uncertain for a time only because I am a strong pessimist by nature and a devout believer in Murphy's Law.

[BurtWorm]

31. I am not going to say one way or the other.

One way or the other, it would just be an opinion, and I have no way of knowing for certain if my opinion jibes with the truth.

I am more certain that Bush did coke and got a kiss on the wrist because of who his daddy is than I am that the CBS documents are real.

[Vitruvius]

32. You could type mathematical equations on either an IBM Executive or

IBM Selectric back in the '60s and '70s. Full of superscripts, subscripts, Greek letters, and more... With the Selectric, you'd swap balls; with the Executive, you'd use a small box full of special characters.

In addition, a built-in superscript "th" was common...

Any technical typist from that era would laugh at the Bu$h spin that a superscript "th" proves it's a forgery because typewriters back then allegedly couldn't do such things...

[Zookeeper]

33. I barely qualified as a "typist" and I remember ...

the "th" superscript.

[Red State Rebel]

34. A new twist - Dallas Morning News is reporting

Staudt was retired the year BEFORE the memo that mentions him. There are so many red herrings in this whole thing, I'm finding it hard to believe it's real.

[deacon]

35. what proof is there that they were forged?

[goodhue]

36. faux said so

otherwise nada