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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:06 AM
Original message
Typist exposes false Bush forgery claims! IBM Selectric made font, th!!!
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 09:08 AM by Dems Will Win
From Democrats.com forum, Posted by Siannan:

Okay, I have to respond to this because I heard it on Hannity on the way home (by the Gods, I hate him), I knew what they were up to.

I started my career as a typist at AT&T. And not to pat myself on the back, but I was good.

Now, let's discuss "Ms. Document Expert". She knows nothing. The IBM Selectric was issued in 1961. In 1964, the IBM Selectric Composer was issued. If you had the right component parts and knew how to work them, you could make a document that would sing. Give me a '64 Selectric Composer and I can recreate that document too. The fact that the "th" is in superscript is meaningless. It could be done with a Selectric Composer, and it was even easier with a Selectric II, which came out in 1971. So there!

These guys obviously think that there is no one around who knows anything about typewriters used in the late 1960's and early 1970. I had a 64 Selectric Composer until it crapped out last year.

Document forgery? Bah!

-snip-

JOYFUL MEDIA BLAST TIME, EVERYONE!

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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Link?
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Here you are second post down
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 09:14 AM by Dems Will Win
I had a Selectric and it could do all sorts of things...

http://community.democrats.com/forums/discussions.cfm?f...
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. here ya go . . .
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. bush is all about fraud... we know they are crying to cover the truth
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks, Dems Will Win...
When I heard Republican talking points about the "forgeries" regurgitated by ABC I almost wanted to hit the TV.

This is just typical. They discuss the "SlimeVets for Bush" day in and day out without questioning the validity of their claims, but as soon as some negative stuff about Bush comes out, it is immediately declared a fraud or forgeries. :mad:
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. My mom was a mean typist too!
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 09:18 AM by NewYorkerfromMass
very proud of her Smith Corona! I saw this post and thought the doc was authentic...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Here are some IBM fonts
On PDF file:

http://www.ibmcomposer.org/docs/Selectric%20Composer%20...

I've got a thread going about proportional spacing typewriters as well:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. The composer manual debunks their claim about left and right quotes
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 09:37 AM by ET Awful
Page 19 explains how to use each. The allegations that text centering didn't exist are also addressed on pg. 47 (as well as in any Jr. High typing class from then until 1983 or so).
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. Then what about.....
these so-called experts mentioned in the Wash. Post article...these experts were saying that the docs were most likely forgeries because they were created by a word processor....
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. maybe Republican "Experts" who are staunch Bush supporters?
I have no doubt in my mind that some freeper type "experts" would do anything to discredit those documents. Lying is nothing new for people like this. Whatever it takes to have Bush re-elected.

CBS will have all the documents checked again by real experts and let us know what the deal is.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I thought CBS.....
already did that before they went with the story on "60 Minutes?"
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Yes they did and they concluded they were not forgeries
however, after all the major media outlets have been overwhelmed with freeper emails claiming that they had "experts" look at the documents and that they are forgeries, CBS agreed to have them re-checked.

As usual, the squeaky wheel gets the grease ... those freepers might be feeble-minded, lying, racist assholes but they know how to organize to assail the media with their lies.

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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I have to laugh...
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 09:24 AM by WillW
whenever I hear this stuff... Even an idiot like me, if given the job of producing forged docs, would have searched garage sales for a period typewriter on which to produce them.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Indeed, Sir
And the characteristics of a typed document are distinctive. The origionals will show, even after many years, clear evidence of the strike of the metal letter. No comment based on examination of copies is with the air of its utterance in this determination.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. No kidding!
I thought the exact same thing...for that matter why don't they just get the original and analyze the ink that was used in the sig line to see if it was a pen from that era?

I heard on one of the crime shows (years ago) that ink is altered slightly year to year so that people can be busted forging old documents (not sure where I saw that but it certainly seems logical)

If the ink on the memo was available in the early 70's it would be highly unlikely that someone could find a 30 year old pen that wasn't dried out, to sign a "forged" document with!
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. I learned to type on a selectric in jr. high and high school
...starting in the late 70's. Yes, they could all of that then...and I'm sure we weren't learning on new machines.

These guys just cannot face the fact that their boy is an over priveleged moron who has received special treatment to counter his abject failure at everything he's ever done in his life.
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74dodgedart Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. You would think that some of these journalists would have access to older
and could verify these thing pretty easily. You can buy a selectric on ebay. What about other brands ?
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BrendaStarr Donating Member (491 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. Chi Sun Times indicates all these allegations came from bloggers.
They started the howling and did the "investigation" that questioned the papers authenticity.

    A day after CBS News presented documents questioning President Bush's National Guard service, the veracity of those papers is coming into question.

    The development comes in a campaign in which charges continue to fly about the authenticity of Bush's time in the Guard and Sen. John Kerry's Web site listing of medals and naval service.

    On "60 Minutes II" on Wednesday night, CBS' Dan Rather introduced four documents he claimed were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, 1st Lt. George W. Bush's superior, establishing that Bush failed to meet the standards required by the Texas Air National Guard in the early 1970s.

    These appeared to support charges by Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe and Kerry that Bush had been "AWOL" and had failed to meet his Guard commitments.

    The documents were presented by CBS as coming from Killian's secret personal files. In them, Killian appears to complain that he was being pressured by his superior officers to "sugarcoat" Bush's substandard performance in his official records and described how Bush had asked him "how he could get out of coming to drill," among other things.

    Forgery experts take a look

    The morning after the "60 Minutes II" airing, the Internet was buzzing with claims that the documents were forged.

    Powerlineblog first aired speculation that there was persuasive evidence from the typefaces and spacing that the documents supposedly prepared in the age of typewriters in the early 1970s showed the unmistakable characteristics of computer printing.

    Another blogger, Bill Ardolino at INDC Journal, who had read Powerline, said, "I decided to find a top typeface expert and ran his analysis on my Web site."

    Ardolino's expert, Philip D. Bouffard, is a nationally recognized forensic authority in typewriter and electronic typefaces.

    Bouffard has the largest collection of full letter impact typewriter specimens in a private collection today. Having worked at NCR and a forensic laboratory for more than 30 years, Bouffard still works with entities such as the State of Ohio on Medicare fraud cases.

    Bouffard said the CBS documents appear to have been copied about 10 times in the state he saw them. Nevertheless, he states, "All the documents have been created on the same printer. And the proportional spacing and the common characteristics of numbers like 4 and 7 and letters like lower case c and upper case G are beyond the capabilities of any of the typewriter impact specimens I have in my collection. The centering of headings is also beyond the capabilities of any typewriter I know of."

    His conclusion: "It is remotely possible there is some typewriter that has the capability to do all this ... but it is more likely these documents were generated in the common Times New Roman font and printed out on a computer printer that did not exist at the time they were supposedly created."

    Bouffard is a registered Democrat planning to vote for Kerry.


http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-bush10.htm...

Yeah, sure he is. If so then he is a pretty weak minded one.

I guess there is a female "expert" (what do you want to bet she looks like Ann Coulter?) too.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
17. Here is the IBM selectric font that made that memo
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. This is *not* the face. Check the (on edit:) fours
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 10:08 AM by troublemaker
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. I hope that they have pissed off Dan Rather and CBS so
much that CBS will not let it rest, that they have expert after expert and then they let the shrub have it with every story they can -wonder if Walt Starr's research will be part of their next story (heeheeee)

"while the Bush administration refutes the documents and alleges they are forgeries, we question who is the fraud."

Then the show idiot in uniform and focus in on his medals, then whammy, Walt Starr's research and findings!

Then they get the family from Alabama that has been waiting 32 years for the BFEE to pay the costs for the damages to the rental house that GeorgiePORgie destroyed while in Montgomery. The folks can talk of the broken chandelier and the smell of alcohol permeating the house.

Yeah, CBS - let them have it! Take the gloves off and expose these creeps!

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Wolf on CNN pushing forgery, forgery, forgery, WP too
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