All you need to know about TANG forgeries:

[Gman]

can be found on this thread at FR here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210987/posts

These assholes started the entire forgery thing and then emailed this FR thread all over the Internet. So when someone says there are "legitimate questions" about whether the documents are authentic, consider that these complete fucking idiots have gone nuts over this for whatever psychotic reasons and/or issues they have over there. This is a classic example of the old saying that you can't win an argument with a fool.


The documents will stand up to scrutiny but you'll never convince these fools so don't try. The answer is the question "why would a huge major news organization like CBS intentionally forge something as serious as these documents?" The rambling incoherent conspiracy theory arguments you will get back from your right wing nut cubicle mate will speak volumes about the person.

[still_one]

1. Hey, CBS is still sticking by its story

[papau]

2. GOP assertions of possibiity of forgery is the news- not the truth of AWOL

Agree - GOP Assertion of "possibility" = truth as truth dies


GOP Assertion of "possibility" = truth as truth dies
At least in the US Media

War Hero is evil

AWOL is hero

Compassion = tax cuts

less benefits = more "choice"

more pollution = greater cleanup

lack of collaborator's relationship with Osama means Terrorist sponsor against US.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Well, then, since they defined methods and tactics...

Why not email, to all and sundry, countering evidence like the history of IBM typewriters?

I find it remarkably...embarassing...that reporters are actually running with a story that has such provenance. Proof positive that the ink-stained wretch, in classic terms, is an endangered species.

[Philostopher]

5. I can't believe I was able to find enough evidence

by using Google, in approximately thirty minutes, on official sites (including one from an Air Force Base in Alabama that showed a procurement list for the Data Center including the whole range of IBM products dated 1969), to reassure me, as paranoid as I am, and these people take one thread by a bunch of flaming lunatics, boosted by a closeted drama queen, and it's journalism. Bah!

[htuttle]

6. Well, you weren't paid to come to the opposite conclusion, were you?

That's the difference.

[Philostopher]

20. Well, yeah.

And besides that, I actually do believe it. I was just taking the old saw to hear, 'if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.' It isn't, always, though.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. nownow EXACTLY...i used an IBM Selectric in 1971,,it had fonts and letter

spacing

[displacedtexan]

4. When you ask freepers to cite their sources...

they shut up.

They know their crap stinks like yesterday's diapers.

[veteran_for_peace]

7. You can also create that memo with a typewriter

In 1961 IBM introduced a revolutionary electric typewriter, the Selectric I, which replaced the standard typebars with a moving interchangeable spherical single printing element, while the carriage remained fixed. The single element, best known as the "golf ball" which holds the embossed characters for printing, is about the size and the embossing reminiscent of the dimples of a golf ball.

The Selectric I was available in standard and wide-carriage sizes and in various colors, including red and blue as well as traditional neutral colors. The single elements were available in many fonts, including symbols for science and mathematics, script, Old English, and more than a dozen ordinary alphabets. Over the years, there were several different cartridge styles for the ribbons, even in the same model Selectric, and they were not interchangeable.

The first thing that they should do is get their hands on the orginal and check to see if there are dimples on the document. That would indicate that the type was done by an impact printer. Since most modern printers are laser or ink it could show that the documents were actually typed.

Secondly we need to obtain pictures of the show that the TANG had the IBM Selectric I.

:spank:
:wow:

[KharmaTrain]

9. I Used IBM Selectrics In the 70's

Think of a time when a simple calculator went to 2 decimal points and cost $200 dollars (my first TI, circa 1973)...an IBM Selectric was a high-end office toy...similar to the original word processors.

While most of us poor souls were lucky to have Royal or Smith-Corona manual typewriters (oh my aching fingers)...Selectrics were common and very popular at the time. My first encounter with them was in high school (the principal's secretary had one and there were several in the typing room)...when I went off to college, I used one regularly in preparing radio logs at a college radio station.

So this crap Barnes is throwing is a red herring. How can you prove a certain typewriter existed at a certain time in a certain place. Just because he doesn't think they did, doesn't mean they did. Incredible.

What this still doesn't address is the late night releases by the regime of previously "unknown" or withheld documents that added more to the validity of the CBS story (since it's hand was forced both by CBS & AP) and now opens the door to a lot of other questions. Does Barnes really want to go there? Of course not.

Instead, the game here...and being played effectively so far (I hope someone's taking notes the next time these assholes try a dirty trick) is to throw so much shit at this that sooner or later either something's gonna stick or it's gonna smell so bad no one wants to go near it.

[unfrigginreal]

8. The Pukes know how to play the game

Within hours, they've changed the storyline by casting doubt on the authenticity of the documents. Yet, it takes us a month to respond to a bunch of smears from the swift boat liars.

[Texas_Dem]

10. documents they don't want to talk about are

the millions of pink slips handed out over the past 4 years,

the medical bills senior citizens get in their mailbox and can't pay,

the sweetheart, no-bid contracts Halliburton and others are receiving,

the back-door draft call up letters reservists are getting,

the higher tax bill from local government because the federal government is giving away OUR money in Iraq instead of to the states and local needs.

the list goes on and on and on.

I would like for Freeps to examine some of these documents for forgeries, fonts and fakes. These people are a bunch of mental 9 year old brats. We don't need to play their game because in truth they are the fakes.

[LTR]

11. Here's all they need to know

From Atrios:



http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004/09/executive.html

[hexola]

12. Dangerous thinking...

"why would a huge major news organization like CBS intentionally forge something as serious as these documents?"

well - I don't know why. - But, surely you must believe that this is - at least - possible? I don't trust CBS - or any media - to the degree that your statement implies.

And to be honest - I haven't really heard anyone accuse CBS of forgery...they may have been taken by another party...At worst CBS is guitly of not scrutinizing broadcast material...

"It's on CBS - It must be true!"

[Gman]

13. DU did the very same thing here for Bev Harris and BBV

there was a ton of research done by DU members on the BBV issue for Bev Harris. Bev then picked up the ball and ran with it.

There are numerous examples of when Will Pitt has put DU denizens to work doing research then he publishes the results at Truthout.org.

The difference is that FR got to work on this issue immediately. We don't always do that and then react too late.

We can do the same here on many issues. We need to be focused and organized. (We're Democrats so that can be hard for us to do sometimes!).

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. You say they are not forgeries, so why do you use "forgeries" in title?

You say that these documents are not forgeries. Yet you call them forgeries in the title. You don't even append "so-called" or some other qualifier. Why? You want to keep the "forgery" theory alive?

[Gman]

18. Well, you got me on that one

shoulda used "alleged" or "so-called" or some other variation. I agree.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. These slip through. I train myself to be vigilant about my own posts.

It is easy for stuff like this to happen. It is all about controlling the language to frame the debate. The Republicans recognized this years ago and have their think tanks select the vocabulary and phrases. Then they train the candidates to stick to those.

Vigilant proofreading and use of third person viewpoint when reviewing helps.

Best of luck for future writing, Gman.

[Iceburg]

16. IBM Selectric first introducted in 1961

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Selectric_typewriter
<snip>
The Selectric typewriter was first released in 1961 and is generally considered to be a design classic. After the Selectric II was introduced a few years later, the original design was designated the Selectric I.
The Correcting Selectric II differed from the Selectric I in many respects:

The Selectric II was squarer at the corners, whereas the Selectric I was rounder.

The Selectric II had a Dual Pitch option to allow it to be switched (with a lever at the top left of the "carriage") between 10 and 12 characters per inch, whereas the Selectric I had one fixed "pitch".

The Selectric II had a lever (at the top left of the "carriage") that allowed characters to be shifted up to a half space to the left (for inserting a word one character longer or shorter in place of a deleted mistake), whereas the Selectric I did not.

The Selectric II had optional auto-correction (with the extra key at the bottom right of the keyboard), whereas the Selectric I did not. (The white correction tape was at the left of the typeball and its orange take-up spool at the right of the typeball.)

The Selectric II had a lever (above the right platen knob) that would allow the platen to be turned freely but return to the same vertical line whereas the Selectric I did not. This feature permitted the insertion of subscripts and superscripts.
</snip>

[Gin]

17. Let them say these stupid things...the truth is out there...the white

house had the same documents....and all the spin in the world won't change this story....it is the truth....and the seed of doubt and disgust has been planted. They will pay.

Trust me.