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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:00 PM
Original message
Rec. this if you think it's time for PELOSI and REID to be replaced.
Pelosi "warning" Obama to govern from the middle (read: capitulate to the right whenever possible)?

Reid "pondering" taking away Traitorman's committee chairmanship?

These two are completely feckless at best and at worst they actually try to stifle progress. If President Obama is to get as much done as he can, it's time for a change of leadership in Congress. These two have had their shot and gotten nothing done, and now they're already preparing to help Obama get nothing done.

Enough!
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. k&r
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
209. Nancy Pelosi herself should be investigated...
I want to know why she took impeachment off the table. Is she blind to the corruption? Or is she part of it?
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #209
234. worse. her self-dealing on the AIG bailout was horrible.
she had personally invested $250-300,000 in AIG stock, which would have tanked absent the bailout of that Wall street insurer.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #234
235. This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
Isn't it treasonous for a leader to govern on behalf of their own profits over the good of the people?
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. And you're quite familiar with that, given your post count.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. alerted
you're not even trying to play nice, are you?

I swear, if you just stick around and have actual conversations, you might learn something: namely that we're not what Bill Cunningham says we are.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Big ol' REC here.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
145. And another here!
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. How is that decided?
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Both are elected at the start of every new Congress
Senate Majority Leader is also chosen every two years, even though Senators obviously serve six.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. They need to go!!!! n/t
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 06:10 PM by peace13
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
185. One of the worries I had that Congress would have a VETO-proof majority...
... is that although they were selling it as a filibuster-majority, after having seen them capitulate to the Repubs again and again, I had a feeling they were more focused on a veto-proof majority that could stop any and all bills President-Elect Obama would want to get through to help us non-elites.

I mean, Nancy didn't look all too happy after the landslide win by Obama when she came out to do her press conference. It was as she wanted to assure her huge donors and billionaire hubby that Obama will not have the reins.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #185
214. I hear you!
I hate to say this but I am pretty sure that Nancy is no friend of mine.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah, you want to know what Pelosi's fucking idea of the middle is?:
Listening to your phonecalls without warrant.

The middle... God, I'd kill for the middle.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
163. Same here mate!
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes to Reid, no to Pelosi
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. By June, many here will be comparing Obama to Pelosi and Reid...
...bemoaning his centrist governing style and claiming bait-and-switch, or capitulation, or complicity.

He campaigned as a centrist. He's known as a pragmatist. Yet some here will claim to be shocked SHOCKED that he betrayed his liberal base.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. No, not the same thing
People want to see action, not gridlock.

Not every idea Obama gets behind will be textbook liberal, but I want to see his plans actually HAPPEN and come out on the other side in some recognizable form.

These two never saw a Democratic policy they couldn't whittle down or help fail completely. (But the bailout - a Bush policy - passed pronto.) Pelosi and Reid's sent signals almost right away that they plan more status quo, and that is exactly NOT what Obama or this country needs.
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johnlal Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
174. Sure they will act surprised
... because nobody here has been critical of Obama up till now.

:sarcasm:
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. I hate to rain on your picnic, but just because Obama won don't mean we liberals will get what we
want. Obama will play middle of the road. He chose Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff. Can you spell DLC. We liberals have a long row to hoe.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. More of us ...
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
72. Agreed. I wrote a piece that appeared in my local paper that deals with what we must do now.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
96. Good article. We also must be vigilant against attacks on the internets.
I believe the internets made it possible for us to network and mobilize. You better believe that Karl Rove is working on methods of stymieing our freedom of information and communications. We also need to protect the small publications that are currently under attack by the major media like Time-Warner.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
171. And now the "DLC" bashing will begin? Some Democrats are NEVER happy!
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #171
249. Why is "DLC" in quotes- do they not exist or something?
???
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #249
256. Noooo, it's perceived to be this big, ominous, HORRID entity...but..
It changes from year to year, and contrary to most DU posters, it is NOT a monolithic, dictatorial body.

Two days after the election the ultra left wing of the party (I consider myself in the left wing of the party) is already bashing the administration that hasn't even been sworn in yet. Either we're democrats or we're not. If those who choose to bash the "DLC" or Obama, or even the 64 MILLION Americans who voted for Obama, don't like it, form your own f*ing party!

No doubt Nader and Barr would outpoll you for decades (remember John Anderson?)
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #256
257. We agree on many points.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 10:05 PM by Dr Fate
Playing down the role of the DLC, and pretending that they do not successfully assert their influence over the party as a whole is one thing we apparently dont agree on.

They are powerful, they are (were?) conservative, and they did spend a good bit of the last 8 years agreeing with Bush and his war, while constantly fighting and trying to marginalize the "far left" DEMS who were actually 100% correct on Bush & the war...

For me, Joe Lieberman (is he STILL a DLC member?) tells a DEM all he needs to know about the DLC of the past. Lets hope this "changed" DLC is different.

We do agree that it is too early to be second guessing Obama- I fully expected him to work with the DLC, BTW.

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
194. He changed his mind on FISA, DC gun ban, etc. He's a politician, not a liberal. nt
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #194
284. He's practical, he picks his battles. In politics one can't win them all, but fighting too hard...
...for one or a few could cause one to lose them all.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Alas, one can only recommend a thread once.
Time to replace Pelosi and Reid?

That's a huge understatement!
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RepublicanElephant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. i'd keep pelosi and send dlc hoyer packing. nt
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progressiveforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. I think there should be legitimate challenges to them
They are not owed their positions.
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codjh9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. I can't say I've followed every little thing, but even so, I've REALLY been disappointed with what
we've/they've accomplished since we kicked some ass in 2006. WTF?
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
230. Remember....
We did have a majority in the House....but not a huge overwhelming one.

Now, I'm not so sure why we need a huge overwhelming majority. To be veto proof I guess. Personally, I don't see what's wrong with sending in bill after bill to be vetoed. It just makes Bush look like what he is, a neocon obstructionist child.

And in the Senate we had a fake majority....with 2 indies....one of them someone named Lieberman.

So I can see why a lot didn't get done. But the opposition to the GOP was too weak, that's for sure.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
19. Hear hear! Just because Reid stuffed a sock in his pants recently
by saying Ted Stevens needn't return to the Senate, I don't believe he'll work for the Dems in any way, shape, or form.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R
These two have been utterly feckless.

Let's have new leadership!

Regards
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mitchleary Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. One of the worst things we can do
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 06:31 PM by mitchleary
is do what the repubs did and push the extreme down everyone's throat. Would I like to make those fuckers pay? You bet, but remember their loses last night, and Obama knows what he is doing just like he told Rachel. An i would like to see those to replaced.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
101. All Reid and Pelosi have done is rubber stamp the Bush agenda.
I am not happy with them at all.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
150. Sen. Reid couldn't even be bothered to make the Republicans show their true colors by making them
filibuster. What was the problem Reid didn't want to stay the night so he couldn't stand up to a filibuster threat? Not one lousy time? No Reid must go.

Pelosi could have buried FISA and instead brought it up for a vote. The majority leader ought not bring up odious bills for a vote. She especially ought not bring up odious bill that the Republicans want and the Democrats do not. Taking things off the table without negotiation it's crap. Pelosi needs to go. We need leadership who can stand up to the Republicans otherwise we're going to end up like we have since the Republicans lost the house in 2006, with the Republicans playing obstructionist.

Regards
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. They are too well trained at giving in to Republicans.
Had they ever shown intestinal fortitude, we might trust them to lead bigger majorities. Had they ever led.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
47. Agree -- corporate trained --
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DeadManInc Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. Both need replaced
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Give Senate Majority Leader to Hillary.
I'd prefer Feingold, but I think Hillary deserves it if she wants it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. NO,, she's DLC-leadership --!!
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
240. You beat me to it!!! NOOOO to Hillary "NAFTA WALMART" Clinton...
I'd like to see her and her hubby hit the road. During the NY primaries there were 80 NY districts that went without ONE single vote for Obama, not even in Harlem. ...Everyone would have to admit there was something fishy going on there.

Bill mentioned on the View that he was going around to 69 countries SELLING medicine. He's in thick with BIG Pharmaceuticals. ...Enough with these politicians with bulging stock portfolios.
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
74. I agree.
Hillary would be perfect. She's got huge ovaries and won't back down. In the House I'd like to see Kucinich replace Pelosi. He needs to play a bigger role.
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Interceptor7 Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #74
111. agreed, Kucinich needs a wheelbarrow for those cojones
The only one in the House with the stones to introduce Articles of Impeachment against Bushco.
That's the kind of leader we need.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #111
253. Right --- Imagine the threats that must come his way ---
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #74
252. Hillary is corporate-owned ... DLC ...
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 08:47 PM by defendandprotect
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #252
274. Hillary is not afraid of a fight.
The regressives bring a knife, she brings a gun. The regressives bring a gun, she brings an ICBM.

A jellyfish has more backbone than Reid, the demon-seed guzzling son of a bitch! Did you read about his cordial chat with Lieberman today? If Reid musters up enough courage, he may just decide on harsh measures against Lieberman for his betrayal. He will send Joe to his room without supper!

Pathetic!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #274
275. We dont need DLC battles for corporatism ....fascism --
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 03:48 AM by defendandprotect
We need real battles for Constitution - human rights --

labor --economic democracy, electric cars, nationalize oil industry,

environment, planet--

but agree with you on Reid...

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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #275
277. I can't think of anybody else who's really tough.
Sanders would be great but he's an Independent. Feingold? Boxer? Webb? Schumer? It's hard but I would love to see Reid give it up. He has been worse than worthless.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #277
278. I'm low on impressions of Senators/Reps since I rarely see Congress
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 04:11 AM by defendandprotect
any more --

DICK DURBIN would get my vote --

then .. Dodd--??

also I think my NJ Sen Robt Menendez ...

Tom Harkin --

John Kerry --



Schumer is dead over pushing Mukasey recommendation --


Webb is a hawk -- r-w

Boxer is good -- Feingold good --




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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #278
280. That's what I mean.
I don't know if Boxer has it in her, although I do like her. Feingold is great but he, too, pulled some shit a few months back. I can't recall it at the moment (very tired) and am too lazy to look it up but I was schooled by someone on DU about it. Dodd is a possibility, as he stood up against the Telecom Amnesty.

The truth is, it's a hard decision and as no one is perfect, I would have to say Hillary because I know she wouldn't take any nonsense from the regressives. I wish Kucinich were in the Senate and Wexler could take over the House. That would be my dream combo.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
196. Ms Clinton not only deserves it, she earned it and...
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 01:00 PM by axollot
..would be excellent, much better than Reid. And, admittedly, I wasn't a big supporter of Clinton during the primaries, however, she does bust her ass - as Senator and I do admire her very much for the hard work she does!

Anyway....back to the OP:

Personally, I honestly don't expect as some suggested that by asking for Pelosi and Reid to step aside as Speaker/Majority Whip, will get us or is even asking that 100% 'liberal' agenda will take it's place. Nor did I get that from the OP.

Pelosi really pissed me off when she said impeachment is 'off the table' - even if we didn't move to impeach for various reasons, it shouldn't have been said that we WOULD NOT. Plus a full and proper investigation with criminal charges a very real possiblity, should *NEVER* be implied to be 'off the table', unless there is nothing there in the first place - like Pres. Clinton.

And calling for an investigation is certainly *NOT* a 'left' or 'right' wing thing to do, when there is suspected, criminal behaviour in our elected officials. It is an American responsibility and moral obligation, especially, when there has been such obvious and blatant criminal behaviour with * and Darth Cheney, who have not even tried to HIDE or deny their crimes from the American people for years now.

Plus, lets be honest here, we all knew full well that Obama was never a hard-left liberal, we've just lived under the yoke of the far RW for so long, it would be easy to see Obama as a true liberal. Says a lot about the last 8yrs! Calling him a true liberal was just the RW re-thug spin-machine.

He is much more centrist than people, even those that voted for him, realize. But, I supported Obama (and will continue to support) with my vote, money, heart and soul.

Does he really, I mean seriously *need* Pelosi/Reid to tell him to lean toward the middle? Really? Obama knows how to get things done, look at how well he ran his campaign and the people he surrounded himself with through out his campaign!

As for 'Rove' working toward the next election - I don't think so, he's a talking head now and making money to do it. What would be accurate to say is, the right/far right GOP will be honing their 'Rove-ian' tactics for the next election, their next candidate will run a much better organized campaign and will be taking lots of notes from the Obama/grassroots playbook. We will need to make sure we as a party are a full step ahead of them, in the elections coming; Senate/2010 and Presidential 2012. My gut (which is normally quite correct) tells me Obama will carry 2012, for a full two term presidency. It will be 2016 after 8 years Democratic (much like it went for Gore after Clinton - so close it was easy to steal) our playbook/candidate *must* be as good if not better than Obama's - which says a LOT because his campaign reminded me of the old childhood saying, "I'm rubber, your glue - what you say, bounces off me and sticks to you".

Never has there been an election anything like this one, not in my lifetime, or any other generation before. It was in every way a very historic election (and not just because of the half of him that is black, although that too is historic) - but for me his win was one of the largest 'peaceful' revolutions I was blessed to be part of and can tell my grandchildren about, even my eldest son, who's nearly 19, voted with me on Tuesday, he to can tell his children and grandchildren about the 2008 election. An American revolution made possible with the help of the internet. The message was loud and clear Tuesday night - "WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE"!!!

I know I cried when he gave his speech, as did hubby, which is rare for him as it is many men. We even woke up our 15yr old at 11pm EST to tell him Obama won! Growing up in this household it's very hard to not be political - at least he will be old enough to vote for Obama's second term! He really wished he could have voted Tuesday. Our 5yr old daughter had a mock election at school Tuesday too. I asked her, 'who did you vote for'? She said, Obama - when I asked her why - her answer was awesome and perfect for a kid in Kindy - "Because he looks cool" LMAO!

Cheers
Sandy
pontificating....again... :crazy:

edit: to fix bold - and clarity - and again for spelling error! D'oh!
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
25. Warned? "Warned"??? Nancy, your time has come and gone. nt
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
26. Pelosi should be charged criminally for complicity in Bush's crimes
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 06:52 PM by petgoat

That's why she blocked impeachment, because she knew any investigation
would show her culpability.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
46. Agree---
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
190. Yes. THAT gets right to the heart of the matter.
It's not necessarily about wanting the country to swing 'liberal' or asking for any 'extreme' legislation. If people think American government spying on Americans through phone taps is wrong, and if people think torture is a war crime (never mind a moral crime) and want to see it stopped, don't expect Pelosi or Reid to help in either case. If people want to see the perpetrators of torture investigated and brought to justice, neither Pelosi nor Reid will see that done. They won't lift a finger, because they'd have to point the finger at themselves for complicity.

They are morally and legally compromised.

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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #190
272. Thanks
:hi:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Harry Reid is one of the biggest failures in history as minority and majority leader
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 06:52 PM by depakid
That's just a fact, based on the record.

If the man had one lick of personal integrity, he'd be looking for a graceful way out as we speak.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
51. Naive ,,, Reid succeeded for his corp-backers sand DLC ---
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
54. Naive ....... Reid succeeded for his corp-backers and DLC ---
Could you possibly have thought that he was trying ...?

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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. pelosi at the least...
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. Pelosi talks a good "middle"
But she sure don't govern that way.

And I wonder if Reid will hold true to to his promise of throwing Stevens out.

He's backed off his promises before.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. I don't, necessarily, but then I'm a realist
which is something way too many people here are not. Most of the bitching and moaning about Pelosi and Reid comes from the fact that Pelosi didn't push for impeachment; impeachment would have been a thoroughly stupid idea, because even if the votes were there in the House, the votes were NOT there in the Senate to convict. It would have been a waste of time and political capital. It would have been seen by many as petty vindictiveness, a tit-for-tat for the GOP's politically motivated impeachment of Bill Clinton. Most importantly, though, it would not have accomplished a goddamned thing.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
49. Hey, now.
No bringing facts and/or rational thought into the conversation.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
68. A crystal ball's only as honest as the one who reads it.
How can we know what the Senate would or would not do after Judiciary
Committee hearings dragged all Bush's crimes into the light, and coverage
on TV?

What you say is... We've got a hunch about who did the crime, but a jury
can't convict on a hunch, and therefore we shouldn't have an investigation.

Stop trying to disguise cowardice and criminal complicity as common sense.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #68
168. "trying to disguise cowardice and criminal complicity as common sense."
Pelosi and Reid's defacto Mission Statement it seems.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
73. Don't parrot pelosi an attempts to defend her inaction
Thats a tired talking point that explains nothing.

It would have shackled Bush from coninuing to be an idiot.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
75. It's also because Dems were elected to STOP the war and she refused to even try.
Pelosi stopped being a member of our party when she surrendered to Cheney and Lil' Dubbikins on Iraq death funding.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #30
162. Spot on! Finally, the voice of reason is being expressed.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #162
205. Reason schmeason. It was cowardice and treason.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 01:42 PM by petgoat
It would have been seen by many as petty vindictiveness, a tit-for-tat for the GOP's politically motivated impeachment of Bill Clinton.

It would have been explained as a defense of the Constitution, with all the
legal phrases becoming sound-bites on the evening news. A necessary civics
lesson for plumbers and caribou hunters everywhere.

Most importantly, though, it would not have accomplished a goddamned thing.

It would have restored respect for rule of law, the Constitution, and the USA.
People who claim decadence is pragmatism make me sick.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #205
219. It would have restored NOTHING.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #219
221. A televised investigation of Bush's demonstrable dissing of the Constitution
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 03:15 PM by petgoat
(not to mention human decency) would have restored our national honor
and our disciplined adherence to the principles we espouse, and educated
our citizens with a necessary brushup on civics.

Nancy Pelosi, most members of Congress, and YOU should be ashamed of yourselves.

Pelosi is complicit in torture and illegal wiretaps. Her only possible defense
is that she was blackmailed or threatened. It's time for her to come clean, and
it's time for the cowards to step down.

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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #221
222. Right, and their impeachment of Clinton accomplished what exactly?
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 03:21 PM by greyghost
The votes were not there to convict Bush anymore then they were there to convict Clinton.

Case closed.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #222
226. Your reasoning is specious. The attempt to impeach Clinton was politically based.

He lied in federal court. That's a very serious matter, but since
he lied about a private matter that probably most people would lie about,
it was hardly a constitutional principle.

Bush's crimes are crimes against the Constitution. If he is allowed to
wipe his ass with the Constitution, every president in the future can
claim the same right, and our system has decayed irretrievably.

A publicized investigation would have generated public outrage sufficient
to bring in the Senate votes, and I can not believe you are dumb enough
to think otherwise.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #226
232. That's all very true, however, the votes were not there to convict...
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 04:32 PM by greyghost
Bush. Impeaching him in the House would have been an exercise in futility. Republican Senators, Ted (bridge to nowhere)Stephenson being the most recent example, won't even resign after being convicted. Larry Craig, caught red handed as it were, remained in his seat. It is very naive of you to think that they could be pressured into voting guilty. They obviously could care less about public outrage.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #232
242. How do you know what votes would not have been there after televised hearings on Bush's crimes?
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 06:35 PM by petgoat
Saying "The votes were not there" is as dishonest as "there is no relationship."

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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #242
244. LOL! These people are exposed for the low lifes they are on
national TV daily. They respond by refusing to resign. Sure, they were going to do the right thing and convict their leader! :sarcasm:
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #244
245. Who said anything about doing the right thing? They would bow to public pressure and impeach. nt
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #245
248. Sure, just like they bowed to public pressure and didn't bail out
Wall Street. You have them confused with people who give a f*ck.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #248
250. You keep comparing apples to oranges to try to defend your point.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 07:49 PM by petgoat
The bailout came all in a rush. Impeachment can be given time.

When the only counterarguments I get are illegitimate ones, it helps
convince me I'm right.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #250
251. You truly are naive. What part of they don't give a f*ck do you not
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 08:03 PM by greyghost
understand? He isn't going to be impeached, deal with it. You would have a better shot at petitioning the Hague to take action.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #251
259. So Congress cares nothing for the oath they swore, and that's how it ought to be?

Is that what you tell your kids?

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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #259
260. Yes, I explain that the Rethugs are unethical bastards and are not
to be trusted under ANY circumstances. It's funny how they prove me right at almost EVERY turn.

Don't misunderstand, I would have loved to have seen Bush impeached, the math was simply not there.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #260
261. Your math was before-investigation math. After public hearings, the Republican party
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 11:17 PM by petgoat
would have been scrambling to throw Jonah Bush overboard.

Saying "We didn't have the votes" is like saying "We don't
have the evidence to convict, and therefore we're not going to
have an investigation."

Why people like you want Bush to get away with his crimes,
and why you want to justify the gutless Dems who violated
their oaths of office and did nothing when the most dangerous
President in US history had full imperial control of the
executive branch I'm not sure I want to understand.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #261
262. It's obvious to anyone who did the math that they would...
have done NOTHING of the sort. The Senate would NEVER have convicted him and Pelosi would have simply wasted a great deal of time, ala Ken Starr.

That said, I truly hope that Bush Co is hunted (and haunted) for the remainder of their days.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #262
263. Nobody gave you the magic crystal ball saying the Senate would not convict.

Nixon was asked to resign by Republicans. There's no reason to
think Republicans wouldn't have turned against Bush too.

But you and Pelosi want to say "Oh he's suffered enough" and you
have no concern about the preservation of Constitutional principles.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #263
267. Who needs a crystal ball? One is dealing with a very small number
of votes, 100. It's just simple arithmetic, nothing psychic about it at all.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #267
270. Projecting pre-hearing numbers on the post-hearing environment is psychic, Madame Sosostris. nt
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #270
273. See, I don't stop. When somebody leaves a flaming bag of shit on my porch,
I stomp it until the fire goes out!
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #273
281. Right, try growing the f*ck up and facing reality. He isn't going to be
impeached. Try donating to Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers like I did.
Even though they didn't make any head way I consider it money well spent.

President-elect Obama stated that he supported the prosecution of the Bush administrations criminals within the intent of the Executive Branch Accountability Act of 2008. This is the only viable option at this time.

You can continue to whine about a lost cause or get up off your ass and actually try to accomplish something.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #281
282. You were there when the foundations of the universe were laid so you know what reality is?
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 02:00 PM by petgoat
Letting Bush get away with it is leaving his turd floating in the punchbowl
and pretending it's not there. And you call that growing up?

"Facing reality," "only viable option," "lost cause". Your arrogance
astounds me. Who the fuck do you think you are? You act like Nancy Pelosi,
putting your energies into defending criminals instead of defending the
Constitution.

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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #282
283. Close, I've been around since McGovern. George also called for
impeachment and he didn't get anywhere either.

I know exactly who I am, I realist. If you want to see some retribution for the Bush Crime Family then follow my advice and petition President-elect Obama. Perhaps he will order his DOJ to pursue it, perhaps not,
that is the only viable option other then the Hague. Nancy made up her mind along time ago and she's not going anywhere.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #283
287. Nancy has no right to decide to throw away my grandchildren's Constitution.
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 02:46 PM by petgoat
It's obvious why she wants impeachment off the table.

She knows that any investigation will show her complicity with Bush's crimes.
War crimes. She knew about the torture as part of the Gang of Four before others
did. She knew about the wiretaps too.

Nancy's got to go!
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #287
288. Very true, and she had a great deal of company. The Dems hands
are bloody, no doubt about it.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
241. Wrong, Spider. She also ALLOWED Bush to keep his war going. She and her committee
chairmen failed to enforce subpoenas. She facilitated the FISA renewal and telecom immunity passage. In short, in any instance that represented a fight with Bush, she backed down.

We have had Republican minorities who were able to hamstring the Executive with their delaying and obstructionist tactics, yet our DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY couldn't do jack shit.

She's not a Democratic leader. She's a Republican accomplice.

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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
31. I want leaders who don't take the REALLY important stuff off the table.
It's time to clean our own house.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
213. Cleaning up our own house, that Democrats demand of their -
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 02:09 PM by axollot
- elected officials that sets us apart from the GOP. Simple blind faith in who they voted for, without question, (except for the odd Santorum here and there which is rare) - the difference is, we question. It's important that we do.

There would be many more Re, publicans, most likely house re-thugs with better reputations if their constituancy rained in the lunacy a bit more - vote the nut cases OUT. Actually, stick to certain principles, without being bullies and telling us what Jesus/God wants for the US.

Cheers
Sandy
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
32. Absolutely!
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
33. It's fucking past time!
Get those feckless bozos outta there.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. !

Hahahahahahahahaha!
Now we have Your Children's Money too!!!!
Hahahahahahahahah.......


In 2006 Fancy Nancy parlayed her Congressional seat into a seat at The Rich White Man's Table.
She has NEVER looked back.

Reid?.....Milktoast.
Sometimes he sounds like he has a crust, but goes all soggy at the slightest pressure.
Anyone want to bet whether he actually STANDS UP when Stevens comes to claim his seat?....
or will he lay down like usual.


We NEED a leader from a safe state who is a proven champion for Liberal causes....a NO vote on the IWR would be a good litmus test.
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #34
139. For that moment alone they should go....
not to mention the wars, failure on impeachment, FISA...

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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
146. That would be Sen. Feingold. But I think he is busy standing
up for the constitution.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'd like to see Pelosi replaced a hundred times more than I would Reid
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stolivodka Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. Agreed.
Useless, both of them. We need the progressive leadership in Congress that America elected, last night, not more "govern from the middle" selling out, like the last 2 years.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
37. I'm not really big on either one of them
and what is worse is that neither is particularly good at keeping our troops in line or making effective compromises. Especially Reid. Pelosi can be somewhat effective in getting legislation through but Reid is impotent.
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VenusRising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
38. Rec'd
Change is the word.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. They need to go
It's a new day, a new era. These two are mired in the Bush era.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
:kick: Like Yesterday.
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
41. They have been disappointing from the get go imo! k&r
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jimmybama Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
42. leadership change
To bring more of this country together it is a must to get rid
of these 2 krusty democrats. They lack the ability to get
anything done. I cringed when they were elected to head the
houses. Barack's first order of business is to let Mr. nancy
know that he is the decider and if she can't toe the line for
the country she needs to go babysit Sarah. And take uncle
Harry with you. Good riddance
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
45. Recommending this so hard I think I got a hard-on.
Replace Reid with Feingold, Clinton, Kerry, or Dodd.

Replace Pelosi with...I'll get back to you on that--I really have no idea.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
106. It would more likely be Dick Durbin
Durbin is currently the Majority Whip. He is a strong liberal, and obviously would work well with Obama. I'm a little pissed at Feingold for his hissy fits during the campaign about Obama not accepting public financing.
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april Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
48. oh Yes ! After she said We need to drain the swamp ! And did Nothing!
Impeachment is off the table my ass!
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DeepBlueDem Donating Member (433 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
50. Pelosi also Dissed Deans 50 state strategy
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Pelosi has only worked to help Bush/Repugs -- get set to be ignored --!!!
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 08:34 PM by defendandprotect
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #56
109. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
april Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. oh yes
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
52. It's time for new leadership in both houses
No spineless cowards. No DLC'ers. No AIPAC suckups.

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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
53. K&R
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Agent William Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
55. K&R
Pelosi and Reid are weak, sorry, but we need stronger leaders in congress. Hillary should take over from Reid, she deserves at least that much. At this point it doesn't matter who the speaker is, we just need someone who will push our agenda through to the White House.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
57. Then again, maybe it will be good for Obama to have people who are used to being puppets.
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 08:35 PM by Dr Fate
If Bush could bend them like reeds, President Obama could do so as easily?

Just thinking out loud here...
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
59. K & R ...and get rid of the DLC'rs Damed cowards woundn't impeach Bush. n/t
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 08:41 PM by L0oniX
:evilfrown:
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RollWithIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
60. Democrats.... COMMENCE CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD NOW!!!
Anyways, when you win elections you don't replace jack shit. You elevate leadership to higher status.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
61. She's full of herself, isn't she?
too bad she didn't take on Bush, the way she's going after President Obama.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #61
193. EVERYBODY in DC is "full of themselves." Why should she be any different?
This is like the "Hillary is so ambitious" comments.
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hangman86 Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
62. Just trying to be realistic here
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 09:15 PM by hangman86
Although a staunch liberal, I want to make sure that the Democrats keep the offices they fought so long and so hard to gain. If we, like the Republicans did, get drunk with this new power and try to pass too much controversial legislation on a country that is still centrist at heart, we'll be dumped as soon as anything goes wrong, regardless of fault. If Pelosi and Reid don't take the advice of Obama and put the word "Unity" into their priorities than all the advancements of the past two years will disappear in another two.

The Republicans got their power by exploiting the tragedy of 9/11. Many people voted for Democrats this year because of the Republican created tragedy of the economy and numerous other things they screwed up. We must not exploit this trust by using it to try to pass legislation that some of our new supporters aren't ready for or may be viewed as too extreme for them. We need to be patient and gradually allow America to see that we make things better. Yes the theme of this election was change. But the reality is that the more one-sided the change, the smaller amount of room for error is given to the party in control. If Reid and Pelosi can't grasp that, than they must go.

I want a liberal America as much as any of you, but the wing-nuts still have their iron grip on many citizens of this country and they are just waiting for the right moment to strike. Let's work on restoring America's faith in government first.

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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. Any idea on how long that will take?
"Be patient." "Gradually make things better."

I've waited through Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and another Bush. How many generations does it take to even get back to where we were with the New Deal? How huge does the gap between rich & poor need to be? How many people need to lose their jobs? How many will freeze to death this winter? I've had it with waiting.

At the very least Pelosi and Reid should go, and Bush is damned lucky he hasn't been impeached. The whole lot of them should be in jail along with Paulson. I could go on...
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hangman86 Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #71
90. You're right in many ways
Even as I was clicking "post message" I got to thinking about that famous letter that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. wrote from a prison in Alabama. In it he asked how long would moderate politicians and other leaders wait to step up and fight for civil rights. Each passing year they'd come to him and ask that he wait a little longer. We should be forever thankful that he ignored that advice.

But King also realized that bringing people of all races and creeds together was vital. He didn't just want change for blacks, he wanted unity among all people. He didn't cause riots or use means of violence to get his point across because he knew that any progress from those methods would be short-lived because it would have been forced instead of willful.

I make this comparison only as a way of saying that we can't just force our whole agenda on Americans if they're not willing to accept it.The people will feel taken advantage of, they'll vote in another Bush like president and Congress, and everything will be changed back. If it makes you feel better though, I'm speaking more of social policies than economic, environmental, and foreign polices.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. Speech at the Great March on Detroit; 23 June 1963 Detroit, Mich.
I love Dr. Martin Luther King's Speeches. Here is the link to his Speech at the Great March on Detroit: http://www.mlkonline.net/detroit.html

If you'll please consider this excerpt:

But these events that are taking place in our nation tell us something else. They tell us that the Negro and his allies in the white community now recognize the urgency of the moment. I know we have heard a lot of cries saying, "Slow up and cool off." We still hear these cries. They are telling us over and over again that youre pushing things too fast, and so theyre saying, "Cool off." Well, the only answer that we can give to that is that weve cooled off all too long, and that is the danger. Theres always the danger if you cool off too much that you will end up in a deep freeze. "Well," theyre saying, "you need to put on brakes." The only answer that we can give to that is that the motors now cranked up and were moving up the highway of freedom toward the city of equality, and we cant afford to stop now because our nation has a date with destiny. We must keep moving.

Then there is another cry. They say, "Why dont you do it in a gradual manner?" Well, gradualism is little more than escapism and do-nothingism, which ends up in stand-stillism. We know that our brothers and sisters in Africa and Asia are moving with jet-like speed toward the goal of political independence. And in some communities we are still moving at horse-and-buggy pace toward the gaining of a hamburger and a cup of coffee at a lunch counter.

And so we must say, now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to transform this pending national elegy into a creative psalm of brotherhood. Now is the time to lift our nation. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of racial justice. Now is the time to get rid of segregation and discrimination. Now is the time. (Now. Now)

And so this social revolution taking place can be summarized in three little words. They are not big words. One does not need an extensive vocabulary to understand them. They are the words "all," "here," and "now." We want all of our rights, we want them here, and we want them now.
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
63. K&R!
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
64. K&R Its time for a change.
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LostinRed Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
65. Reid not Pelosi n/t
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
66. Hell, yes, they need to go.
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stark6935 Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
67. Yeah, she needs to go at least. I don't know about reid.
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NikolaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
69. K&R
I am sick of those two for probably the same reasons that many here have rec'd this thread for. They MUST go! :kick:
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
70. K&R
n/t.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
76. absolutely - I couldn't agree more (nt)
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radhika Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
77. Pelosi is a collaborator; Reid is just feckless
Seriously, Pelosi spent two years providing legal cover for the bush crime family. Starting with Impeachment-off-table quote, proceeding to dump Kucinich's initial articles of impeachment of cheney into the dust bin of committee, until late in 2008, to not forcing subpoenas and supporting use of Inherent Contempt to Myers, Rove, Bolton etc --- she made it possible for BushCo to continue their vile dismantling of our nation, with no threat of accountability.

She does not deserve to remain as speaker. I even supported cindy Sheehan's race for her seat just to let her know how unvalued she is....of course, didn't work:)

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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
78. They have to go and go now. eom.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
79. I will wait to see what Reid does with Lie-berman. Pelosi would be
okay without her alleged underlings.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
80. Neither one led impressively the past 22 months.
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 10:19 PM by TexasObserver
I think we can do much, much better than those two as the heads of the congress.

Reid at last has the filibuster to blame. Nancy has no excuse. She was just a coward.
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VPStoltz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
81. Oh, yeah!!!!
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
82. K&R a change we REALLY can believe in
bye bye DINOs!
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
83. Time to get rid of old politics. We need people who'll get things done instead. nt
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
84. Time for them to go!!
K&R
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
85. They need to go!!!
Out, out, out of our House!!!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
86. Pelosi is nothing more then an attempted lokk a t making a fashion satement Cindy she is not...
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #86
195. Learn to spell. Learn to type. Learn to be less sexist. nt
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
87. Hell, yes!!
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Ranting_Wacko Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
88. Yes, because governoring from the middle worked SO well for us the last two years. -nt-
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greyseal5 Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
89. K&R big time
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
91. Congressional Approval NYT 18% NBC/WSJ 12% THAT'S FAILURE
Anyone who had a 12% to 17% job approval rating from their employers would be fired.

They should step down. They won't but they should.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #91
202. But it's all the Pukes' fault, blocking all Nance's fabulous bills! Don't you believe me? nt
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #202
246. I've been re educated and re born!!!!! Thanks! n/t
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
92. kr
Kucinich for Speaker.
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
93. So kick and recommend.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
94. They are going to FUCK UP Obama's first term big time.
They are not up to the job Obama is asking all of us to do.

I see them being the two biggest stumbling blocks the president-elect will face.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
95. They're both Bush Crime Family collaborators. Oust them, then try them. Then fry them.
And fuck Rahm Emanuel too.

Talk about a frickin buzz kill. If there are three Democrats I despise more than them it would only be Liebermann, Liebermann, and Wasserman Schulz.

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howmad1 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
98. K&R!
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
99. Maybe if enough people recommend this, it will happen.
Or maybe they check DU every day and see that there are over 200 hardcore Internet political people against them on the front page and decide themselves that they need to be replaced!
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #99
160. Hey you *can* dream!
Nobody kills strawmen like you Mighty Hoof.
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lob1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
100. K&R. They need to go.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
102. Yes replacement sounds like a plan, this president needs support from his party
...because the repukes will do what they have always done, obstruct and block and deceive and lei and cheat and every other self-serving action they can think of to get nothing accomplished. So we don't need the leaders of the democratic party delivering interference as well.
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bobd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
103. K&R n/t
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BayjanDem Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
104. K&R
The pussy Democrats have gotta go. Enough surrender.
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
105. Pelosi MUST GO and dump Reid behind her. Two pathetic excuses for "leaders". n/t
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
107. Both worthless. Obama needs Congressional
leadership that will get things done. Pelosi spends all her time worrying about hurting repuke feelings. Reid is completely lacking in the "fire in the belly/passion" department. Both need to be replaced.
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skyounkin Donating Member (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
108. pelosi had the gall to "Warn" Obama
Fuck that stupid lazy bitch!! I am so goddamm tired of her worthless ass. Guess what you idiot- YOU AIN'T IN CHARGE- SO FUCK OFF!!

She had her chance to make a difference- she failed miserably- now she can go away.

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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
110. This is one of the most embarassing threads ever on DU
I can't believe it's on the rec list.

Hey, I have a good idea! As soon as we win, let's go about eating our own, and flush it all down the toilet.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #110
147. JC
you really should change your name back to MELLENCAMP, because quite frankly we all need to start getting real here. There's no toilet here, and nothing to flush.

Obama can help foster the replacement of leadership by offering Pelosi and Reid other positions. Maybe ones that don't quite affect the underpinnings of our laws so much.

Look at it as a chance to give other worthy Dems a crack at bat...

:)




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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #110
161. I hope your parents dont see it!
So Embarrassing! Oh Noes! The Shame!
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MyOwnPeace Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
112. Nothing I've seen stated here.........
that doesn't cover my concerns with them both.

They gotta' go!

When we had 2 years of control of the two sectors and the Pugs said that WE were responsible for all of the problems, well, that tells you all you need to know.

New leadership = new leadership ALL AROUND!
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
113. They both need to be taken "off of the table."
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Veracious Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
114. Yes it's time Pelosi and Reid to go.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
115. K&R
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
116. K and R
for the good of the country

:kick:
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CantGetFooledAgain Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
117. Hell to the yeah! K&R
We need leadership in Congress that is on the same moral and idealistic plane as that of the White House.

Fuck political expediency and this apparent mortal fear of offending anyone.
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DiehardLiberal Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
118. Abso-f'in-lutely!!! Be gone with them and get some real Do-ers! nt
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zentrum Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
119. Oust Pelosi and Reid
Afraid of their own shadows and certainly terrified of wielding political power. Hence they created a vacuum that the Republicans knew they could fill and refill as the country was slowly spun down.

Two headless horsemen.
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medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
120. HELL NO!!! WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL!
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 12:55 AM by medeak
Jesussss.. Reid is meeting with traitor tomorrow...Pelosi gave great speech today. AM SICK OF THIS SHIT! So much for everyone coming together...chreeest oh for the good old days on du when a post like this would be gone
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #120
123. they're both no doubt in jeopardy looking at the response here
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #123
152. yeah, like DU is such a bellweather for the Democratic Party...
:shrug:
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
121. K&R - I am convinced it NEEDS to happen
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 01:06 AM by ksimons

and should happen -

anyone who saw her interview on CitizenTube, which was recently posted, would probably say the same. She has the personality of a cactus and if you can't draw in people from your own party, how the hell can you lead people from both sides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9uvB5iowfM

(irony, her talking about good communication when she fails ridiculously at it)

you can't - and her attacks post-bailout were a bad sign that she thinks very little when she opens her mouth

Reid is a dimwit who I had high hope for but has no leadership skills either - they both poorly represented the Democrats in the last 2 years and that isn't a circular firing squad, it is a surgical removal of a mole on the face of the Democratic Party

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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
122. Speaker of the House Waxman & Majority Leader Clinton!
:patriot:

K&R!
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #122
144. That gets my vote!
:patriot:
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
124. Pelosi should not be telling Barack how to do anything!
At all.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
125. Reid first and Pelosi would be a bonus. But who replaces them? nt
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
126. The Dem Congressional leadership needs some SERIOUS retooling
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Eyes_wide_ open Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
127. K &R I'm so there! n/t
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
128. !!! YES!!! n/t
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
129. It's not gonna happen. n/t
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msfiddlestix Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
130. well put..
I have no love or patience for either, they each are pathetic and made for each other.. so many others could do the job better in their sleep. It's too bad for Obama and our party, that each of them are simply too narcistic to recognize their own appalling lack of courage, integrity and intelect required for the positions they hold.
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PinkyisBlue Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
131. They both have to go.
I have long been disappointed in Pelosi, since she said "Impeachment is off the table". I want to see all the crimes this administration has committed exposed, and I want to see them held accountable.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
132. Impeachophobes in denial do far more harm than good.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 03:10 AM by pat_k
Which is worse? The criminal who commits a crime in plain sight or the police force that willfully turns a blind eye?

We charged Congress with the duty to police officials in the judiciary and executive. Under the leadership of Pelosi and Reid, Congress is willfully turning a blind eye to bush's program of torture and intolerable abuses of Presidential power.

Americans elected Barak Obama despite Pelosi and Reid's betrayal of trust. The disdain for the Democratic leadership reflected in record low Congressional approval ratings says it all. The impotent Democratic "leadership" didn't inspire Americans to vote for Democratic candidates. Democratic victories have been driven by the intensity of the anger at bushncheneyism.

Instead of inspiring action, Pelosi and Reid tell the Americans who challenge them to act to "leave us alone; go away; you don't understand."

They occupy a bizarre world in which casting a losing "no" vote against a Supreme Court nominee, while refusing to join in a united filibuster, is accepted as "opposition." Where leaving the massive power of the American Presidency in the hands of war criminals is being "high minded." Where embracing torturers is "moving forward."

Impeachophobia is just the most recent and most devastating manifestation of the beltway blindness that is so pervasive on The Hill.

Tragically, it is looking more and more like Reid, Pelosi, and many other members of the Democratic caucus are simply too far gone. They cannot, or will not, be saved from themselves. It's time to give them the boot.

Formidable primary challengers are out there. The trick is to seek them out and engage EARLY. Stop thinking "shoe string" campaigns. Let's get out there and look for prominent, principled people with Deep Pockets.
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BlackmanX Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
133. Hell no and here's why
They are weak leaders of the democrats in congress and will for the most part defer to Obama when it comes time to make the hard decisions. Obama has had no bigger supporter than Nancy Pelosi because from the start of the primaries it was obvious that she was pulling for him over Hillary. Pelosi's handling of the economic bailout bill showed that she has control of and support from a majority of dems in congress. Reid and Pelosi have both demonstrated a willingness to let Obama take the lead just look at the white house summit that bush called with Pelosi, Reid, Obama and the repub leadership. Pelosi and Reid both let Obama lay out the democratic position to bush while mccain had no position and the repubs didn't defer to him. If Reid and Pelosi stay it'll be a strong, united democratic governing coalition. Fucking with that now would not only hurt Obama with congressional dems but also create chaos at a time when the party needs disipline.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #133
180. And that's precisely why I want Pelosi to go.
The fact that she wasn't even pretending to be neutral during the primary was quite evident. She can go to heel as far as I'm concerned.

:(
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
134. K&R.
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Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
135. Kickin this one !!!!
Ive been over them for sometime.
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machI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
136. Senator Reid and Representative Pelosi had their chance after 2006
Their performance was somewhat less than impressive.

Both Reid and Pelosi have their own agendas, which may not coincide with our new President

Dianne Feinstein and Stenny Hoyer would not be bad selections at all.
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
137. Pelosi said that? Anyone got a link?


Oh God ..please no repeat of the Dem backstabbing Bill Clinton got .. that's what ushered in the era of pubs in 96.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
138. I am for it - Question is with whom do we replace them with?
Someone want to do a poll?
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
140. Let's start with a clean slate of leaders!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
141. Sorry, I want them gone.
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 07:04 AM by Enthusiast
Their public image is tarnished, and badly. Both are the very picture of weakness. It's as if you could smack them both around with a feather. Wimpy! We don't need to continue to characterize Democrats as wimpy! I am tired of it! Pelosi displays no forcefulness and conviction behind her words and Reid is even worse, if that is possible. Reid looks like every bully's favorite punching bag, the proverbial 98 pound weakling. And he acts like one! If you act weak you will be pushed around.
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TragedyandHope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
142. We new blood, not those complicit in the last 8 years
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webDude Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
143. k&r
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
148. Recommended and kicked.
:kick:
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nradisic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
149. I agree...
Enough.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
151. Yeah, Pelosi is has now gone from disingenuous to dishonest
"Govern from the middle" is code for "be sure to include social conservatives".

If she had meant govern with fiscal responsibility, she would no doubt have said that.

If she has to talk in code, she shouldn't be talking at all.
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gilbertb11 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #151
156. Good One
Good one
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #151
188. Agreed.
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Mongooseflies Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
153. i think between the both of them
they have what amounts to one testicle.
A useless calcified one at that.


:eyes:
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
154. This is when a negative rec would be useful.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
155. A time of triumph is always the moment to institute a coup
This makes no fucking sense.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
157. Show them the door...
And give them the boot!
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Sedona Donating Member (715 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
158. k&r
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km1550 Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
159. Send Them Both Packing
As far as I'm concerned, Pelosi is a traitor who should be yanked from office and jailed. Her and Reed are two like-minds that don't share my ideology as a democrat.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
164. K&R Time for both to get out of the way of progress. nt
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
165. bleh. Negative rec.
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PittDem Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
166. Depends on how they proceed with investigating W and friends
We cannot completely overlook the crimes that were committed over the last 8 years. They have to pick a couple solid, concrete cases and go get them. If Reid and Pelosi don't want to do it move them out. I do think Thom Hartmann is correct in suggesting that Hillary would be a great Majority Leader for the senate
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
167. K&R
throw the collaborators out on their asses!!
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
169. They're both self serving, spineless traitors to Democracy.
And should be drummed out of office.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
170. Horsehit post!
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johnlal Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
172. They'll want to "put the unpleasantness behind us" and move on.
Pelosi took "impeachment off the table". Now then won't want to investigate the scandals that have plagued the last 8 years. They will let bygones be bygones and try to move on.
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budkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
173. Without a doubt!!!
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always_saturday Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
175. ITA. Both are huge jokes.
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
176. absofu**kinglutely
these two have done more to hurt the Democratic Party than any others. They are sycophants of the GOP regime currently ruining our country for profit. They have allowed this to happen. They, in fact, have pursued the destruction of our country in full complicity with the GOP and GWBushit. Can we call it sedition? I believe it is; Pelosi and Reid have actively and with malice a forethought sought to destroy our constitution in support of the GOP fascist regime. Be gone you fools. Okay, done ranting.
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change_notfinetuning Donating Member (750 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
177. Absolutely! First order of business.
Rahm Emanuel for Speaker of the House, IMO, and Hillary Clinton for Senate Majority Leader.
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scytherius Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
178. K&R!!!!! n/t
nt
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droidamus2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
179. Why?
Why can't the Democrats/Liberals/Progressives in this country be happy to take a step in their direction when they win an election instead of immediately cannibalizing their own. I am an avowed liberal and there are many programs I would like to see added, fixed or eliminated in the Federal government but I am reasonable enough to know if we start a bunch of infighting in our own party in an attempt to push through these programs that we will get nothing done and the electorate may well decide to kick us out the next time around. Realize when the political pendulum swings it takes awhile to reach the other side. Yes, Obama with Pelosi and Reid will probably not move as far to the left as fast as some of us would like them to but if they can accomplish some significant legislation that is at least on the left of the scale maybe in his 2nd term or hopefully with the next Democratic president we will be able to push things a little more to the left. Fighting for what you want the party do does no good if you tear apart the party in the process. I say let's not be satisfied with just what we achieved in this election let's go for the filibuster proof Senate in 2010, let's add to our House majority. The only thing that might change my attitude is if Reid stood in the way of Obama replacing retiring Supreme Court justices with Liberal replacements. I say give Reid and Pelosi a chance to show that they understand that it was Obama and Dean that brought us this victory and they need to work with President Obama to implement his vision for the country. Yes, if they show themselves to be more interested in their own agendas or become obstructionist in the way they run their respective chambers then boot them but first give them a chance. Finally, if you want Reid and Pelosi to be replaced start sending messages to your Democratic Senators and Representatives that you would like to see new leadership and why and then let them work to make the transition.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
181. Pass
I'm still sore at Pelosi for taking impeachment off the table. The failure to remove Bush and Cheney will be look upon by future generations as simply bizarre.

Nevertheless, while she may have failed us as opposition to Bush, the game is different. Will she succeed as an ally to President Obama?

In the Senate, too, the election of Obama changes the dynamics. Senator McConnell, as minority leader, will not be taking direction from the White House any longer. It will be harder for him to block legislation with a Republican filibuster unless he finds some Democratic allies and keeps his Republicans in lock step. All of that depends on the issue involved. Senator Reid will have an easier time moving legislation through the Senate.

This issue can be revisited in 2010.
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leftcoastie Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
182. K&R
100 times over!
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
183. ill give them some time .. u know.. AFTER obama is actually president
before i go calling for heads.

theyve had valid excuses before for their in-actions.. but they wont once obama is in the white house...
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
184. One more to get it to 400.
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
186. Bump!
And recommend!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
187. Proud to be the *400th* rec
Looks like we got a consensus here.
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
189. OH GOD YES! K&R
I Do Videos for Change:

Is Obama Really a Cracker Hating, Communist Negro?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPSOemDCqg


An Obama Win Means Republican Hissy Fit. Be Prepared!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3IijWdMEzs


Privatize Profits and Socialize Failure - REPUBLICANISM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWxTQbfsEA8


Obama the Baby Killer -or- When Morons Attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1SrQiHHPAk


Barack Obama - Never In a Beauty Pageant! Can He Lead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHGu33jtXtc


Frank Weighs in on the Biden v. Palin VP Debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n754FjvGKGQ


Republicans Blame Clinton, N*ggers for Wall Street Failures
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAvhWKp0N4M


It Appears Obama is a Terrorist... If You're a Moron!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CunxzR5_8FU
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Terri S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
191. Hell, yeah!
K & R !
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
192. Barney Frank and Hillary Clinton. nt
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
197. I'm all for it.
Both have been wrong for the job.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
198. K & R. n/t
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
199. no way
Any replacements would likely be worse IMHO
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
200. Yes to both. K & R
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LonelyLRLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
201. They're both weak and aren't even persuasive spokespeople.
Replace them.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #201
203. Quayle was a pit poodle. Nance is a pit chihuahua. Enough. nt
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Spike89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
204. Reassurance and consensus
I'd just as soon see both replaced, but I actually think Nancy may have a political point. The country must move to the left and it must move there fairly fast on some issues, specifically health care. As silly and stupid as it may seem be to lots of us on DU, a significant part of our population is pretty scared about change. We probably have the power to ram some pretty aggressive progressive legislation through, but it could very well expend Obama's mandate prematurely, and possibly be a repeat of Hillary's original health proposal and the gridlock that resulted.

I'm not advocating a centrist agenda. I am advocating that we package a progressive agenda and market it as centrist. It is a huge factor in the legislative success of the republicans over the past couple decades--they've convinced a lot of people that fringe right-wing = slightly conservative and mid-to-far right wing = moderate. We need to take back the language or our arguments are going to fail.

The repugs truly were and in a sense remain the ruling party. Obama is about change and he isn't a ruler, he's a leader. Imposing anything, even progressive legislation, isn't leadership and democrats just aren't as effective as the repugs at being bullies. I trust our leaders to gain the consensus that will allow them to move us in the directions we need to head.
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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
206. Pelosi and Reid are useless. Get them out.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
207. Long past time!
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Working Class Hero Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
208. K&R
Absolutely! :banghead:
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vanboggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
210. Hell yeah
I doubt Pelosi will be giggling around Obama and granting his every wish like she's done with the chimperor.
Nix both of them!
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
211. both should be replaced
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
212. Replace slow Reid with sharp Clinton. Pelosi is doing well, so retain her leadership.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
215. Yesterday
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9thkvius Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
216. They have not done their jobs - not remotely
I don't know what Harry Reid's deal is, but I think that Pelosi has something held over her head, most likely the stuff involving the warrantless wiretaps and her tacit approval of them. But if that is the case, she still needs to step down for buying into that and not stopping it before it ever got started. If she is tainted by that, she needs to go so someone who still believes in the Constitution can step in and take her place.
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
217. kicking! eom
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
218. Time to kick both of em to the curb!
:kick:
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proud progressive Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:02 PM
Original message
SIMMER DOWN, PEOPLE
yeah, i want to see some action, too. beginning now, with a friendly congress, will be the time to demand action NOT removal - not yet. there was a guy we just defeated who we criticized for his knee-jerk reaction for cox to be fired.
it was also just two years ago that we reveled in the first woman leader. settle down, be patient.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
220. YES,YES, YES and Yes!
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
223. no -n/t
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km1550 Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
224. What is Reid Waiting For????
Unless of course, Reid is, as I suspect, complicit.

Bastard!
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
225. Yes. We. Can.
K&R
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
227. K & R
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
228. K&R!!!!!
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
229. Do you have any ideas on who you want to replace them?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #229
254. Kucinich ... Wexler ...Waxman ...Nadler ...Carolyn Mahoney ...Maxine Waters ...
Edited on Thu Nov-06-08 08:54 PM by defendandprotect
Conyers/? ...

Lautenberg ... Menendez ... Ron Wyden ...

Sarbannes was great ...not sure if he retired or died ..!!




It's been a long time since I was familiar with them all ... thanks to Comcast removals ..

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BigD_95 Donating Member (728 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
231. yes
they both need to go.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
233. proud to be 480 on the rec list.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
236. Not a big fan of Pelosi, Reid is alright.
But.......... Neither of them got much done. And Pelosi seemed alright at first, but she's not a leader. Can't say who could replace her.

Reid is okay, he's fun. It would be cool in some way to see Clinton up there though.
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Swede Atlanta Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
237. They both must go!!!
Neither one has been effective in their positions. I realize that Harry Reid had a greater challenge in some respects due to the nature of the Democratic position in the Senate but they have not lived up to the potential they had in their respective positions.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #237
266. seconded x 1000
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
238. Too late to Rec but here's a Kick!
:kick:
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
239. Pelosi is OK
Reid is without spine and he's poor on defense. Chris Dodd would be a much better majority leader. Pelosi did what was possible.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #239
255. You wanted the war refinanced over & again ...???
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rambler_american Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
243. Damn!
Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
247. They can both go Cheney themselves...
we need leadership with guts, not nuts (in the head)
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NRaleighLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
258. I am also too late for the Rec, but yessiree, a good big kick!
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fadedrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
264. Kick - too late to recommend
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
265. I'm more interested in watching the repukes engage in cannibalism at the moment.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #265
268. Nothing like a circular firing squad!
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Mampula Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
269. Pelosi's approval is very low
And if she continues to behave like this, it will go lower.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #269
271. I wish somebody would explain how Madame Teaparty is necessary
to the functioning of a governing Congress, because I am so pissed off at Madame pit-chihuahua
that I want her laid low.
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HopeforChange Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
276. I'm not sure Pelosi can survive in this administration
I don't think she stood up to Bush like she should have on some issues.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #276
279. Where's the leverage to rid ourselves of Pelosi--?? We've been wanting her gone for 2 years--!!!
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
285. Too late to rec, so a post will have to do.
Spineless Dems must go!
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Independent_Voice Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
286. It would depend on who replaces them
I'm personally fine with Pelosi. Since Steny Hoyer is the next one in House succession, I'd rather see Pelosi stay than have Hoyer take over as the new House Majority Leader. He's an arrogant shill.

If someone else, a true progressive from the Dem House leadership, stepped up to challenge Pelosi, then I'd consider getting on-board.

As for Senate Majority Leader...I don't have any real problems with Reid, either. Senator Clinton taking over for him...no. Just...NO! Durbin or Murray, sure. But Clinton hasn't served nearly as long as many other U.S. Senate Dems who deserve it more and who probably wouldn't fuel the opposition quite as fiercely as Clinton would.
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cayuga Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
289. Fuck her and her 'Bush is a lovely man"
Reid is a spineless puppet of the mafia in Las Vegas
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TxBlue Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
290. Can't Rec Anymore! Pelosi & Reid need to go Buybye asap
More useless than teats on a bull!

No one I know repub or dem like Pelosi or Reid.
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