Near top of to do list: GLBT RIGHTS!!!

[Ladyhawk]

How can we fix this?

[The Traveler]

1. By not surrendering

What is right is right and must be pursued until it is accomplished.

[Ladyhawk]

3. Yes. And remember that people can change.

Some people never will, but there was a time when I would have voted yes on 8.

[The Traveler]

5. People do change

There was a time when I probably would have voted for Prop 8, too. But I was a real jerk back then. :)

[marmar]

2. Agreed....Now that the majorities are larger and it's "safer" to pursue a more aggressive agenda....

It is definitely time to prioritize this.....And I think it starts with us. It is my mission to change the heart and mind of at least one fellow breeder per week about same-sex marriage.

[MelSC]

4. Time

I honestly think in time this will be fixed. I think that most people in my age bracket (20s) believe that gays/lesbians should be able to get married, even my Republican friends...and I live in a deep red state. It's only a matter of time...

[trashcanistanista]

6. We need to organize. We need to

position it more firmly as a civil rights issue. We need to respond forcefully and accurately to the hate ads that the churches have been running. We need to go into the areas that voted for it and make an effort to re-educate people and win them over. We don't need them all, just enough to make them realize just what they have done to damage civil rights. We can even use religious principals to reach them and turn this message around. I can and will be done. Right now, we need to stop blaming and start brainstorming. We need President Obama to help spread the message.

[Symarip]

7. Organization

Who has to do it? I don't know. But I'm getting word from my friends in CA that the No Prop 8 organization was a complete disaster.

Time to start over, rebuild, and focus.

[No Elephants]

8. Agreed. People have to make some specific requests of me, though. I can take only so much

yadda yadda. Ask me to do something and I will do it if I can.

[iamthebandfanman]

9. yup! no justice, no peace! equality for all! n/t

[Median Democrat]

10. Yes, Just Like Clinton's Focus On Gays In The Military Obama Should...

Focus on divisive social issues, rather than the freakin economy that American public gave as their number one priority. More likely, Obama's 2001 remarks shed some light on Obama's philosophy:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810270008

[Liberalboy]

12. Passing simple laws that most Americans agree with

like ENDA ( the employment non-discrimination act) and expanding hate crimes legislation would be a good start and not cause huge waves; besides congress can introduce it and pass it and all he needs to do is sign it, something Bush vetoed. He can deal with gays in the military after he ends the war.

[Hippo_Tron]

105. No reason he can't multi-task

Clinton's problems early in office largely stemmed from the fact that he was too damn indecisive to pick a senior staff until the last minute. Doing Gays in the Military as the absolutely first thing was a political blunder that I wouldn't suggest Obama repeat but there's no reason he can't start working on these issues in the first year.

[RedLetterRev]

11. You all have no idea what this post means

I had a lump in my throat last night (and danced in my jammies!) when Barack became officially President-elect. There was living proof that a mind-blowing milestone had been reached.

Then, without hesitation, I find straight brothers and sisters right here hardly twelve hours later, ready to get to work to help bring me and mine forward too. The water's flowing pretty freely now.

I don't know what to say, but humbly, very humbly, thank you. We'll keep working side by side until we're all -- every one -- free.

[Kajsa]

122. Welcome to DU, RedLetterRev!

We'll keep fighting for equality for ALL!

:hug:

[stevenleser]

13. If Dumbya can use signing statements to grab power, I wonder if Barack can use one...

or an Executive Order allowing Civil Unions at the least?

[Dawgs]

14. No. Economy, war, healthcare, and energy first; then GLBT rights.

Bush created a long to do list for Barack, and some things will have to be pushed back.

[motely36]

17. Thanks

I'm always so happy to move to the back of the bus

:sarcasm:

[Dawgs]

20. Screw you.

I never said anything like that.

[motely36]

21. Unfortunately that's what it feels like

[Dawgs]

25. Okay I'll bite. Which rights of yours are right now more important than fixing the economy...

..healthcare, ending the war, creating new green jobs?

Which ones are so important that they can't wait a few months to a year?

[motely36]

27. I'm sorry I said anything

I'm just really tired of being told to wait.

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. No, motely. Keep saying it. What you're asking for isn't anything

that will kill us or cost us. :hug:

[Dawgs]

34. Are you fucking kidding me?

You really wouldn't sacrifice for a few more months to have a better economy, universal healthcare, and to end the war? Cause that's what I'm asking.

[Marrah_G]

44. But it's never just a few more months

If people stop speaking out it will be put aside indefinitely. There is no reason we cannot fight for equal rights at the same time we are fixing the other issues.

This is the one issue that the government can fix free of cost....if we push them to do it.

[onefreespiritedchick]

53. Sure, and then we will be voted out of office pronto 2012

Clinton went radical when he first took office. Right now, we need to focus on the issues that got Obama into the White House. GLBT matters will come in time.

[Maven]

58. No they don't just "come in time"

They come because someone sacrifices, pours their blood and sweat into the cause. And they come, sadly, in spite of people like you who are terrified of rocking the boat.

[Marrah_G]

68. When- when will they come? When will there not be an election around the corner?

We are talking about equality. Would you ask racial minorities to wait for equal rights?

[Liberalboy]

62. It's always "a few more months"

I don't disagree with you that we have to wait but how about some empathy that GLBT folks are once again shoved to the back of the bus. Democrats love our money and our votes but when push comes to shove we have a history of knowing where we stand

[Q3JR4]

94. You can't make civil rights

play second fiddle. If you're doing it because of political expediency, then you're no better than the republicans who (at least) have the guts to hate us to our faces.

This is MY LIFE, these are MY RIGHTS. I'm tired of fucking assholes always telling me to shut up and be happy, while I'm treated differently in AMERICA. Don't you get it? That shouldn't compute.

This. Is. America.

Q3JR4.
Has, after this post, given the "ignore" feature a test drive.

[LostinVA]

106. "Rights delayed are rights denied." -- MLK, Jr.

Glad HE didn't decided to just wait "a few more months,"or VP-Elect Palin would be having a shopping spree for an inaugural gown right now.

Thanks soooo much for playing with my CIVIL RIGHTS.

[Marrah_G]

43. Don't you dare apologize and don't you dare stop speaking out

Your rights are just as important as ALL those things.

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. The same rights you take for granted. This is a country that is

capable of accomplishing many things, all at the same time. It doesn't cost anything to allow a person the same rights his/her neighbor has. I refuse to accept anything less as a female heterosexual. Sorry.

[LostinVA]

108. I love you

Even if Marjorie is your favorite.

[Malikshah]

31. What, are we in the middle of the twentieth century again.

Why is it a zero-sum game to you?

Human rights are right in line with all the issues...

How about thinking outside the box a bit and look to your fellow Americans--all of them.

[motely36]

35. I changed my mind

You brought up Healthcare. How about the right to make decisions in the healthcare of my partner? How about being allowed access to them in the hospital?

[MuseRider]

37. His equality as a citizen,

justice and protection under the law. The ability to function as a human being in this country whose citizenry seem to just be looking for ways to make his life less important, more difficult and often more dangerous than theirs. There is no reason this has to be second to anything. There are many things to do, I consider this a first priority myself but many things can be done at once. You may not have meant this to be insulting but it does sound that way. The right to live equally and without fear should be a right everyone has and until that happens nothing will seem more important to them and it should be of the highest priority to all of us.

[Maven]

54. WTF are you talking about? Why does one thing have to supercede another?

Or are you just trying to create a smokescreen to hide your apathy about equal rights for GLBTs?

We don't need your permission to push for what's right. You don't get to tell us when it's our turn. Got that? Obama is our president too, and the fight for equality doesn't stop just because you can't fucking multitask or don't give a shit enough to try.

[AntiFascist]

77. Excuse me, but you don't seem to understand...

rights were granted to us in a surprise CA Supreme Court decision. Our long wait seemed to be over, but now our rights are being taken away by a constitutional amendment. This is a major setback for us and a major milestone for the Religious Right. With enough constitutional amendments, at the Federal level, we could indeed become a theocracy. The Dominionists behind this whole thing are not to be taken lightly.

[TommyO]

96. A pretty decent fellow once said, "Justice delayed is justice denied"

We can work on GLBT rights while doing other things at the same time. Why are you so willing to delay/deny the rights of your fellow Americans and DUers?

[Orsino]

97. You didn't have to put civil rights at the end of that list.

You didn't have to imply that civil rights would have to wait until the other issues were resolved to your satisfaction.

Hell, even if you don't put equality first, you don't have to go and say so. x(

[LostinVA]

103. Yes, you fucking did -- I am so tired of seeing this on here today

Civil rights should be at the head of the list.

[Ken Burch]

116. Making gay people wait for their rights is the same thing as saying "screw you".

You can fix the economy and end discrimination at the same time, y'know.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. He will have lots of advisors. And he himself said he can mutlitask.

[NorthCarolina]

24. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that

Obama has made no effort to conceal his stand on this having said numerous times "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage". It will be election year 2012 before you once again hear rustlings of discussion about the LGBT issues in the halls of Congress.

[justiceischeap]

38. "No. Economy, war, healthcare, and energy first; then GLBT rights."

This is where you're wrong Dawgs, it's not GLBT rights... it's CIVIL RIGHTS! We in the GLBT community aren't asking for "special GLBT" rights, we're asking for the same CIVIL RIGHTS that you freely enjoy on a daily basis to be extended to the GLBT community. When you frame it as GLBT rights, you're minimizing the gay community, which includes me.

As another poster here put it, try saying it like this instead -- "No. Economy, war, healthcare, and energy first; then BLACK rights." Sounds kinda like the 50's and 60's all over again. Back of the bus, don't use that water fountain...

PS. To answer your question about sacrificing a few more months... We've been waiting since 1969. How about you wait a few more months? Why is it fair to ask 10 million plus voting adults to wait a "few more months?"

[misslauren66]

69. Exactly - this should be framed as HUMAN rights

When it sounds to the general populace like a request for special consideration - which this is not - you're going to lose your argument. FYI, this isn't about the gay community specifically when it's framed as GLBT. The folks that come after the G aren't interested in being thrown under the bus.

[olkaz]

51. I agree with this. Let's take care of the situations that are causing people to die first.

Sorry if I don't pass the purity test, but I'd prefer my buddies in the Middle East get out of there alive.

[justiceischeap]

55. So your buddies (and mine too) can go fight a war for someone else's democracy

Yet ours isn't quite up to snuff while we live in an environment where people think it's okay to put certain priorities over others? Especially when it comes to civil rights? What about people's buddies who are in Iraq that are gay and their partner will never see a penny of their benefits if that partner dies.

The "gay issue" touches every other "important" issue you can bring up. In other words, it's not a singular issue that stands alone all by itself. It's wrapped into the fabric of all the other issues.

And for the record, my buddy in Iraq and his family, who probably voted for McCain* wouldn't want to see me denied my rights.

[olkaz]

65. I think President Obama can multitask

And I'll vote and support any legislation that finally creates equality.

This was probably stupid to post in the first place. All these issues are important.

[Tektonik]

56. human rights should always be the main issue

[Ladyhawk]

98. There's a lot to do. I just feel that our GLBT friends got shafted last night.

It makes me very sad.

It is, after all, possible to multi-task. There are 300 million Americans, after all.

[endthewar]

104. Agreed. Sorry people, but GLBT rights won't be a priority.

In an interview with Wolf Blitzer last week, Obama listed his priorities as:

1. Economic crisis (could include middle class relief here as part of this).
2. Energy policy.
3. Health care policy.
4. Middle class tax relief.
5. Education.

[rucky]

120. We can multitask.

[DevonRex]

15. I want to know what I can do to help. I want to know what DU can

do to help. Hopefully our GLBT brothers and sisters are organizing as we speak and will let us know how we can help.

[Duncan Grant]

16. Rec this thread, read this exit poll on Prop 8 (see the DEMOCRATS who voted to deny rights to gays).

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

There was no victory last night. People lost their rights. That hope and change rhetoric is a one-way street.

[DevonRex]

18. Somehow we have to tackle the REAL problem, which is the CHURCHES

that preach anti-gay crap to their members. And this will be very hard to do. I don't know what the solution will be or when it will happen.

But I do know that church goers don't like their religion messed with by the government. And the churches KNOW that. So they continue to spew their filth.

[Duncan Grant]

22. African-Americans and Latinos voted overwhelmingly against gays in California and Florida.

Oh, happy day.

[justiceischeap]

32. We have to educate the minority communities and show them that OUR fight for civil rights

Isn't much different than theirs. Until social conservative Dems learn that our sexuality and our rights aren't going to endanger them or their CHILDREN (which is a big reason why Prop 8 did so well, they used the kid aspect) this will continue to happen across these not so United States.

[Chovexani]

49. White LGBTs are not going to accomplish that.

Any more than having that white gay pastor lecture black religious folks won any hearts and minds before the Obama-sponsored McClurkin hate fest.

This falls squarely on the shoulders of LGBT of color and our straight allies, because posts like yours show just how clueless the greater LGBT community is, both at acknowledging minorities within its own ranks and dealing with other minority groups.

[justiceischeap]

66. And apparently Obama can't accomplish it either

A quote from the HRC-Logo Presidential Forum from Obama:
The notion of gay marriage has been used to divide people in black churches. I pointed out that if there's any pastor here who can point out a marriage that has been broken up as a consequence of seeing two men or two women holding hands, then you should tell me, because I haven't seen any evidence of it. And if you think that issue is more important to the black family than the fact that black men don't have any jobs and are struggling in the inner cities, then I profoundly disagree with you.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2007_HRC_LOGO_Barack_Obama.htm

[blondeatlast]

33. Excuse me--so did Whites and old people. 70% of Whites voted for Prop 8.

I wonder who was the bigger voting bloc in favor (:eyes:)--African Americans or Anglos (of which I am, btw).

Divide and conquer at the behest of the corrupt media--that'll work.

[DevonRex]

40. I'm really sick of these anti-black, anti-hispanic threads. It's not RACE

but RELIGION.

[blondeatlast]

45. Yup. and I've seen way too much today already. It's gotta stop and I'll call

any thread where I see this crap.

I'm a self-professed Christian who wants the church out of politics and the government outta my church.

I let Christ educate me--He has enough faith in me to let me choose how I practice his wisdom. I voted and campaigned against Prop 102 here in AZ (our own vile Prop 8).

[Duncan Grant]

50. Doesn't change the fact about how Democrats voted.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=FLI01p1

[blondeatlast]

64. But you singled out TWO specific groups that voted for it and ignored the much larger voting bloc

that voted for it.

Ddisunity is an opposition tactic and I will call it out when I see it. If you are willing to be led by the media, I'll call you on it as well.

[Duncan Grant]

82. But African-Americans and Latinos don't support gay rights. They voted to take them away!

Truth fucking hurts, don't it.

edit: sp subject line

[blondeatlast]

86. Neither do Whites. Where's the disadain for them? I'm White--and I'm not

happy they voted FOR H8.

[Duncan Grant]

90. Opposition tactic?! There is no party unity on LGBT rights. My rights were removed. (nt)

[Jamastiene]

102. I'm seething in the disdain for the whites who voted against our humanity too.

That doesn't let any other races off the hook though. It just hurts worse when other minorities vote against us because other minorities know the sting of hate and the agony of extreme hate as well as we do. I think we expect better from other minorities. I'm not saying it's right to not focus on whites too. White people are even more culpable because whites are such a majority in quantity. I'm just saying that it hurts worse coming from groups of people we feel akin to more.

It is all about the level of closeness we feel. The closer you feel to someone, the deeper they can hurt you. It works that way in other situations in regular life too.

[Chovexani]

47. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Religion is the common denominator with the yes on h8 bigots.

[Jamastiene]

101. I think it hurts us worse when we see other minorities voting against us in a majority like that.

I really think that is why it hurts worse then. You are very right about the religious hatred part being the real underlying problem though. It's that one virulent form of religious zealotry and hatred (across many denominations and religions and races) that consistently spends their every waking minute hating us and working against even considering us worthy of basic human rights.

It's not the 20 or 30% that voted with us that is the problem. It's that 70 and 80% that voted us down that causes the most hurt, regardless of race or sexual orientation.

Right now, many of us are feeling like caged animals who have been tortured for far too long. There is a lot of hurt right now. When cornered, caged, and tortured, we tend to strike out and anybody and everybody. I'm not justifying anything. I'm just saying, it hurts more than usual because of the camaraderie we normally feel with other minorities for the shared hatred that is aimed at us. We don't really feel that with white people and have written them off. We don't even expect anything good from the white people any more. We SHOULD though.

The reason I bring this up is not to justify anything, but to explain where it may be coming from. I used to strike out at all Christians because of what the mean asses who claimed they were Christians did to me years ago. It was the hurt that caused me to lash out at all Christians for what some did to me. It took a lot of patience from a very kind DUer to help me understand that some Christians aren't about hate at all. It helped me to focus my fear and rage toward the right group of religious zealots who hate...and that can be any race, religion, gender, political affiliation, or creed. The point is that I learned there are nice Christians who do support us too, (minus that Grade A asshole from over in GLBT earlier today :eyes: that's a whole nother story there), who don't kick us when we are down.

The important thing to remember is that there are good allies from many races and from the loving forms of various religions as well who are feeling it too right now. It is important that we stick together and learn from each other. It is the only way the healing can begin. This pain runs awfully deep.

[Chovexani]

113. I went through a "fuck all Christians" phase myself

And I were to be completely honest I still struggle with it sometimes even though I know it's wrong. It's not just about being queer but also being Pagan, in my case.

I always try to make a distinction between religion and religious extremism but in my crankier moods I fail. So I can understand the impulse to lash out at an entire group, I'm just going to call it out every time I see it. Not the least of which because being ignored most of the time except when you're getting splashed with the paint from a broad brush fucking sucks, especially when you're smarting from the pain of being reminded most of your own people actively hate you. In that respect, I'd imagine LGBT Christians are feeling much the same way today.

[Jamastiene]

114. In truth,

none of us are really these labels placed on us. We are just people and we have various views and beliefs. I hate that the haters won. I don't really care what religion or race or anything they were. They were being total fuckheads to take our rights away like that. I just hate the haters and the assholes who want to rub salt in the wounds. There have been a couple of those today...real haters telling us the same old same old that we need to wait, sit down and STFU and all that crap.

I think we'll all come together in time. The lashing out will stop and apologies will be made and we'll move forward then. That doesn't take the sting out of it right now though. Right now, it hurts like hell all the way around. It's like family infighting. It hurts a lot more when its fighting amongst people who are normally close.

:hug:

[Duncan Grant]

48. "Minority" voters showed up to vote for Barack Obama. He recommended a NO vote on 8.

What went wrong?

[Chovexani]

52. Religion, religion, religion

I'm not sure how much we can scream this.

If you look at the common thread among all yes on H8ers it's not race, it's religion.

[Kajsa]

124. And FEAR, Chovexani.

Do not underestimate how the 'Yes on H8' campaign used
extreme fear tactics and lies to spread their message.

Fear motivates people to react, not think.

:(

[blondeatlast]

70. Funny how only "minority" voters got him elected? Um, WHITES overwhelmingly voted for Obama--

and also for the wretched proposition H8.

Why are you only singling out African Americans and Latino Americans? If only those two blocs voted against it--and whites voted against--it would have failed pretty resoundingly.

But keep ignoring the glaring fact that Whites voted en-masse for it, if you must. I'm a straight hite christian who campaigned hard against AZ's own Proposition H8 and I refuse to pin this travesty on any single group or groups. It doesn't help forward civil rights to single anyone's out.

[Duncan Grant]

Again, why didn't they follow Obama?

And we can broaden this to include all Democrats. All are culpable.

[blondeatlast]

74. Now you are talking. But you singled out "minority" (your quotes, btw) earlier.

Not cool--but you are finally getting my point.

[Duncan Grant]

76. And African-Americans and Latinos still voted 2 to 1 against gay rights.

Was it Barack Obama's consistent equivocation or religion?

Gay people lost rights yesterday. Are you getting my point?

[blondeatlast]

84. Geez. So did 7 out of 10 Whites. Are you always this narrow-minded?

Or is it just fun for you to pick on other oppressed groups?

[Duncan Grant]

92. There is no party unity. It doesn't exist. Gay people lost rights - you didn't.

I lost rights yesterday. You lost what? Your empathy?

[Duncan Grant]

115. The White and Asian vote was the same: 49% Yes/51% No.

African-Americans voted 70% Yes/30% No.
Latinos voted 53% Yes/47% No.

[1corona4u]

I don't think it's just religion either....or race......

I know a lot of people who are against gay marriage, and it has nothing to do with religion, but their core belief system. What they were raised to believe. There are still a lot of people out there that look at being gay as a perversion. They don't understand it. They think, given the way human body was designed, is a clear indication of the way nature intended things to be.

[Duncan Grant]

46. The traditional core constituency of the Democratic party opposed gay people.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

I expect straight whites to shove their entitlement down my throat. I don't expect African-Americans or Latinos -- who know full well the abuses of the hegemonic Anglos -- to extend to me a giant "fuck off". How many decades have passed in which African-Americans and Latinos have been considered a core constituency of the Democratic party?


And didn't the Democratic party and Barack Obama recommend a "NO" vote on Proposition 8? Why did the core constituency vote to oppress the rights of gay people?

[last_texas_dem]

109. Unless I'm reading something incorrectly, that exit poll shows whites

voting 51-49 against Prop 8. Where is your 70-percent figure coming from?

[DevonRex]

36. And so did whites. What do they have in common? Their RELIGIONS

tell them to be against gay marriage. Catholic churches do this, evangelical churches do this, Mormon temples do this, Baptist churches do this. The list goes on and on.

THAT is the point of intersection for all of these diverse groups. RELIGION.

[arKansasJHawk]

60. Do you think ...

If you and I keep typing RELIGION in all-caps in our posts that people will start to listen? :toast:

[DevonRex]

71. One would hope so. I tend to think that someone here has another

agenda, though, and it has nothing to do with gay rights.

[blondeatlast]

72. Yes--the uncomfortable shimmying when the OP gets pinned to the wall

is kind of obvious.

[Duncan Grant]

80. Read the exit poll. We have no reason to celebrate the loss of civil rights.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=FLI01p1

[blondeatlast]

73. Yes--the uncomfortable shimmying when the OP gets pinned to the wall

is kind of obvious.

[Duncan Grant]

79. Bullshit. Gay people lost their rights yesterday. It has EVERYTHING to do with gay rights.

Myopic much? Or are you lending your tacit approval to homophobia?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Duncan Grant]

88. Look at the record because the truth fucking hurts.

There is no party unity on LGBT rights - especially among African-Americans and Latinos.

Tough shit, ain't it.

[gaspee]

95. NO THEY DIDN'T

Geeze - can't you read?

The white vote was 51-49 AGAINST

[Brewman_Jax]

81. They're about a third of the total population

in both states. Why is it their fault?

[arKansasJHawk]

57. RELIGION

Each and every one of these anti-gay measures is a clear violation of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment guarantee of freedom of religion. These policies place the government in the role of advocating and enforcing a particular (and particularly stupid) religious belief.

There is ABSOLUTELY no secular rationale for banning gay marriage. I think we've let religion off the hook here WAY too easily. The reason black voters were so overwhelmingly in support of Prop. 8 is because traditionally black churches are notoriously anti-gay. When part of the foundation of your community tells you all your life that GOD doesn't want gay people to be married, it's going to be pretty difficult to disconnect that switch when you walk into the voting booth.

I think this should be part of a two-pronged strategy moving forward. One part should be the tack taken that originally got the judge in California to strike the ban in the first place: the "separate but equal" argument. But that should be backed up by the religious freedom argument. Gays should be allowed to marry in a religious ceremony if they choose to do so, and churches should be allowed (but never forced) to hold such ceremonies.

I'm not sure how much traction my idea will have. We still live in a country that has "In God We Trust" on our money, unfortunately, a country that still has fucking religious prayers opening sessions of Congress. A lot of people are still afraid to stand up and call the anti-gay movement what it really is: religious bigotry.

[TheDonkey]

23. OUTREACH is needed. Victory in CA was spoiled by a very few. We need to bring them over

This is not a crushing defeat but a lesson GLBT leaders need to understand.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. I'm in! And for those who think we need to "prioritize" by shuffling

our friends, neighbors and family members off to "wait their turn" again, I say together we can juggle more than one ball.

Thanks.

[nichomachus]

29. Obama could do it quite simply -- with the Liddy Dole approach

Back in the '80s, many states had a drinking age of 18. Liddy wanted it to be 21. So, as Transportation Secretary, she simply threatened to withhold federal highway funds from any state who didn't pass laws raising the drinking age. Obama could simply withhold funds from any state that didn't allow same-sex marriage.

If he really wanted to.

[JVS]

39. We'd probably just end up with shitty roads in a lot of states.

[nichomachus]

41. OK by me n/t

[OmahaBlueDog]

42. I can think of 3 things

1. Control of the courts: Put younger liberals on the SCOTUS, who will see those in same sex relationships as no different than any other human (and thus entitled to the same rights and privileges).

2. Continued dialog: You are never going to please everyone with this issue. Some people have religious beliefs that preclude them from accepting same-sex marriage. So be it. However, these people can still be convinced that (contrary to what James Dobson has told them) that their churches will not lose their tax-exempt status if they refuse to perform same-sex ceremonies. Having that information out there could help remove a serious hurdle among believers who feel their churches are threatened.

3. Chip away at it: Get civil union laws passed in those states where you can't get marriage passed. Continue to work to get sodomy laws overturned. Continue to strengthen hate crime laws.

[Nye Bevan]

59. We need Obama to make an "I was wrong" speech

He needs to move away from the "marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman" stance. Not necessarily in the near future, but it would be great if some time into his presidency he is able to disavow his current position. Something along the lines of... during the transition and establishment of my administration I have had the opportunity to work with many good people who happen to be gay and have seen first-hand the pain that the denial of the right to marry has caused them. (OK, so I am a terrible speechwriter- Barack will be able to phrase this a thousand times better- but you get the idea). Obama will be a great president, and great presidents lead public opinion instead of cravenly worrying about losing homophobic voters.

[blondeatlast]

75. Obama spoke out (as did the NATIONAL Democratic Party) AGAINST Prop H8.

Nice try--FAIL.

[Nye Bevan]

85. "I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman...

Now, for me as a Christian, it's also a sacred union. God's in the mix." - Obama, Aug 16, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUMwQcMVmnc

To me, that is not much different from saying "I believe that marriage is the union between two people of the same race". I would love Obama to make a speech where he says that he *no longer* believes that marriage is necessarily between a man and a woman, and comes out forcefully and unambiguously in favor of gay marriage rights.

The election is safely won; constructive criticism of Obama is OK, especially over an issue as important as this one.

[blondeatlast]

87. He specifically urged Californians to defeat Proposition H8. But go ahead an ignore his official

position since to do otherwise defeats your fallacious argument.

[Nye Bevan]

99. Clintonesque weaselling doesn't impress me that much

Talking about a "sacred union between a man and a woman" with "God in the mix" to one audience, while coming out against Prop 8 to another audience, might be shrewd campaigning but is not going to help this cause in the long term. I would just like Obama to *unequivocally* say that he favors gay marriage, period. Unless he does this, proponents of new anti-gay marriage initiatives are obviously going to use to their advantage the fact that the *president* said that marriage is "between a man and a woman".

[Spider Jerusalem]

61. The Supreme Court, that's how

Connecticut, Massachusetts - both have marriage equality laws. All it takes is a court challenge that's supported against these new laws in CA and FL. I suspect it'll happen within a few years. And I'm expecting Obama to make good on his promise to repeal DOMA, too.

[Maven]

63. Repealing DOMA has to be a big priority.

Then replacement of justices on the SCOTUS.

Then challenges under Full Faith & Credit.

For a start.

[Hippo_Tron]

110. DOMA could be struck down in the courts probably

Even the right wing justices think DOMA is blatantly unconstitutional.

[myrna minx]

67. Equal rights for our GLBT brothers and sisters. K&R n/t

[Ah Xoc Kin]

78. people believe gay marriage results in

all kinds of 'bad' things
status quo is the result of fear mostly

[NorthernSpy]

89. it's all about finding a frame that works...

To do that, we have to figure out why so many otherwise progressive people oppose gay marriage.

[Duncan Grant]

91. 18 recommedations in 4 hours. That tells me everything I need to know.

Thanks for nothing Democrats.

[Ladyhawk]

100. I really feel it will be OK.

I know it seems like it's taking forever, but change is coming. I think it's going to take all of us working toward various goals. There are a lot of good people in California and we can work on a lot of things at once.

[endthewar]

107. Well, who else are you going to go to?

That's the stark reality of this situation. Also, do people really think that GLBT rights will be a higher priority than energy policy and health care policy? Is there any room left in that little bubble you're living in?

:rofl:

[Duncan Grant]

112. Fuck you. When you have your rights taken away -- feel free to lecture me.

Miserable fuckers, you should all get what you rightfully deserve.

[endthewar]

117. Please accept my apologies: :-)

SIKE!!!!!!!!!

:rofl:

:rofl:

[Starry Messenger]

93. Find a way to keep carpetbagging church agitprop out of our elections, for starters.

God, I am pissed! We got Enron'ed by shadowy church groups. I've been googling for hours now and there is a lot of crap going on. I am a straight woman who is 100% human rights and I blame these fucking Dominionists for ruining my day and all the lives of our GLBT fellow citizens. WE need to FIX THIS!

[eshfemme]

111. Get rid of "Don't ask, Don't tell" so that our GLBT Americans can serve America!

I mean WTF? They're already recruiting far below the normal standards by giving quickie commuted sentences to gangsters, naturalization for immigrants and people with physical disabilities/problems who normally wouldn't be accepted. And the military wants to turn away gay people when they're that desperate for boots on the ground? Get the military to put up or shut up once and for all! WTF?

There's nothing that states that being gay will impede one's service to their country so it's just fucking retarded to have this be the one disqualifier written in stone when all the much more pertinent disqualifiers have been cut down out of desperation by military recruiters.

[endthewar]

119. I agree with you. However,

I think that this is where the line will be drawn by the socially conservative Republicans as to when they stop cooperating with Obama. I'm sure that Obama wants to repeal "Don't ask, Don't tell", but I think he will be careful as to how he does it. He'll probably wait until the Republicans need something desperately and he'll trade them what they need if they give up their opposition to gays in the military.

[rucky]

118. I was one of those "wait until after the election" people.

And I apologize if that came off as dismissive.

Now it's after the election. So LET'S GET TO WORK! Priority #1!

[endthewar]

121. Priority #1?

Hate to break it to people, but it's not a top priority for the Obama administration. Wolf Blitzer asked him what his priorities would be (in an interview last week) and Obama said:

1. Economic crisis (could include middle class relief).
2. Energy policy.
3. Health care policy.
4. Middle class tax cut and relief.
5. Education.

[rucky]

123. Single issues took a back seat to getting Obama elected.

The grassroots can now re-focus on the issues of personal importance to them.

[endthewar]

127. Energy policy is my top concern

Nothing against GLBT rights, but it's not at the top of my political radar.

[Kajsa]

125. HRC and 'No on H8' not conceding because--

http://www.hrcbackstory.org/2008/11/update-on-anti.html

“We all know that our marriages did not begin with a court decision and they will not end with a vote on a discriminatory amendment,” said Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese.

“In California, we firmly believe that all votes should be counted before calling the race. Several million votes in CA have yet to be counted. We are waiting to see the final results from those ballots and we should not be speculating about something as important as people’s fundamental rights,” continued Solmonese.

With several million votes left to count, they should NOT have called it!

So why did they?!? :(

It's too damn close and the uncounted votes could change it!

:(

[zulchzulu]

126. Unfortunately it's a generational thing AND a religious zealot issue

There are people who are racists and/or homophobes who simply, like any diseased vermin, need to die off. It is too ingrained in their heads. They won't let it go no matter how informed we might try to make them.

The same goes with so-called "Christians" who devise their hate from lunatic ideas that somehow Jesus would be "against" gays. These people are merely hateful and/or are actually gay themselves and protest a bit too much on the issue.

So what can be done besides the Grim Reaper and perhaps going after places of worship living like freeloaders by not paying taxes yet being places of political hate?

We need to pass laws that don't mention the work "marriage" anywhere. It has to be incremental perhaps. We need to use the GLBT issue as a civil rights issue of equality. Civil unions and domestic partnerships need to be enacted first. Then we can move further.

[GreenFiles]

128. If you are gay or bi, COME OUT!

We can't influence change if we hide!