Josh Marshall thinks Rather's TANG story piece was lame

[lancdem]

A bunch of folks have written in to ask what I thought of Dan Rather's piece on the Bush Guard story. All I can think to say is, that's what's called getting rolled by the White House.

Supposedly CBS is going to put these memos themselves up on their website later this evening. Will they ask the White House for permission?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com

Anyone agree?

[Catfight]

1. Freedom of Information Act means it's public now. n/t

[lancdem]

5. I think his last line was sarcasm

[Catfight]

12. Probably, I didn't mean mine to be, I just can't believe it took this

much time and this much work to get records of an AWOL Bush. All this time the deferment team, Cheney/Bush, had the gull to even question Kerry's service. Bush looks like a spoiled brat and even more arrogant than ever by just ignoring orders. You can't have a beer with an alcoholic folks, the guy is a loser. Get over him and move on, the Supreme Court made a mistake.

[Walt Starr]

2. I don't

It was a devestating revelation.

[Doohickie]

3. It was lame

After all the build-up, I was extremely disappointed.

Even my wife, who's very liberal, thought it didn't impune Bush at all.

[Walt Starr]

10. Say the nay

Gloom the doom.

[napi21]

13. Obviously neither of you were ever in the military!

You don't realize what "disobey a direct order" means. Or what "not performing up to TANG Standards" means. That's really bad stuff!!! The penalty is (or was supposed to be) immediate activation to 'Nam! That's the BIG story here. Shrub didn't obey orders, and didn't perform up to standards, and someone still got him out of being activated!!!!

[sundancekid]

36. Amen. Pull strings and slide, pull strings and slide -- all of *'s life,

but it looks like it's time for him to pay up ... nothing like VOTER REVOLT this november

[ROC]

14. I agree Paul

The admin guy wasn't too supportive. I have trouble believing Barnes too. Even he said there were lots of rich kids in the Champagne Guard then - Lloyd Bentsen son. I would have been if I could. It was how things were then.

[bushwakker]

20. Barnes was totally credible you on the other hand are not

[sandnsea]

33. Which is the goddamned point

Kerry SERVED ANYWAY. For one.

They got away with comparing Bush's service, then, to the Guard of today and implying that anybody who said serving in the Guard wasn't honorable was dishonoring our Guard troops in Iraq. Complete bullshit. The Guard was for rich kids, Dems & Pubs and we all knew it. You weren't IN because you weren't RICH, you doofus. That's the whole point.

[West Coast Democrat]

4. Was he talking about the CBS News story or the 60 Minutes piece?

[lancdem]

8. Actually, I don't know

That's a good question.

[papau]

6. New York Times posting of legal analysis on their site is better

.....www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/opinion/lechliter.pdf

[GOPAgainstGW]

7. Great Interview and Hey Rather is a Texan, Ha!

[rumguy]

9. Everyone on DU said the piece rocked

[lancdem]

11. I may have been wrong

Josh may be referring to the news story, not "60 Minutes."

[Doohickie]

26. Everyone but me....

I live amongst the enemy. This kind of stuff ain't gonna change someone's mind.

[AmerDem]

15. It did rock but i think marshall may have apoint!

60 minutes is known for it's indepth featured pieces. This was far from that. There was knock out information there, for them not to have made at least a half hour out of it does make you think something was behind it!

[yardwork]

16. The biggest avalanche starts with one grain of snow

[SomthingsGotaGive]

17. flake of snow grain of sand

:silly:

[yardwork]

22. Are you impugning my metaphors????

Hey, you wanna fight? Put em up!

[newyawker99]

31. Hi SomthingsGotaGive!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[RoyGBiv]

18. Depends on the audience...

I think this particular piece is more audience specific than some with regard to its impact.

I've kept up this occasional argument with a moderate Republican, military guy I know, and his constant retort to any criticism of Bush's military record involves claims that Shrub followed the letter of the law. What happened may or may not look bad, depending on one's perspective, but he met the minimal requirements for what he was doing, which is enough, and he obeyed orders.

Well, this undercut the entire basis of that argument, and I'll be curious about the reaction it gets. I have sent e-mail asking just that.

IOW, those who are aware of what all this really means -- and that includes military personnel -- will be more affected than the general population.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. He disobeyed orders. He skipped the ordered physical. He did not report.

Bush disobeyed orders. He was ordered to attend the physical exam necessary to maintain flying status, for which his country had given him a million dollars worth of training. He disobeyed that order and never showed up.

He never showed up in Alabama, as far as can be determined by members of the unit he was supposed to join. He did not meet his commitments in Cambridge Massachusetts.

Bush explicitly signed a document to avoid overseas service (Vietnam). Then he disobeyed orders, then in later life lied about it, and then sent people to their deaths for an war in Iraq that was either unnecessary or didn't have to be fought according to his election timetable.

[Doohickie]

27. "Bush disobeyed orders..."

...He was ordered to attend the physical exam necessary to maintain flying status, for which his country had given him a million dollars worth of training. He disobeyed that order and never showed up."

Right. And if it was such a blatant disobeying of orders, something should have been done about it.

Thirty years ago.

But his superiors didn't. Whether it was because it was a champagne unit, or discipline in the guard wasn't that great at that time, or just cuz his CO was lazy, it doesn't matter. If it was a flagrant enough and clear-cut enough violation, it should have been dealt with right away. If the people that were responsible for taking care of this way back when didn't do anything, it's a little late now.

Give us direct ties to prisoner abuse, a Saudi cover-up, or whatever, but this story is not gonna topple a king.

[yardwork]

23. 60 Minutes audiences are probably well-educated

They will understand what this means.

In central North Carolina the 60 Minutes segment tonight followed a special on Hurricane Hazel, which devastated NC in the 1950s. Lots of people were probably watching that.

OTOH, Southern Baptists and other conservative Christians are at Bible meetings on Wednesday night, so they all missed it.

Win some and lose some.

[Renew Deal]

19. I thought it was lame.

I don't think it changed anything and it's from 30 years ago. I wish we didn't have to talk about it, but those slimeballs are doing it to Kerry.

[Awsi Dooger]

24. CBS buried the lead, perhaps intentionally

Disobeyed military orders screamed as the focal point of this piece, not Barnes' actions in Bush's behalf.

There was even one extremely negative sentence from the memos that flashed briefly on the screen, but Rather did not read it at all.

A different presentation would have made all the difference in the potential weight and longevity of this story.

[kath]

29. Yes, there were some VERY negative sentences in those memos. Why the hell

didn't Rather read the entire text of the memos?!?! It wouldn't have taken very long, dammit.

Memos are on the CBS site now:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

Look on the left side of the page, about 1/3 of the way down, for links to each of the four memos from Killian's personal file.

[girl gone mad]

25. I thought the most devastating part of..

the piece was the interview with the man who explained how powerful people help each other out and just how corrupt the system is.

That shreds to pieces Bush's image as a regular Joe. He's an elite, and he always has been. He's never been held accountable and abuses of power are just de rigor for him.

[AuntPatsy]

28. Its a great story because it speaks to parents and family of soldiers

who have either been wounded or slain, to have such a man be your child's commander in chief doesn't hold much water if he has been proven to be less than the patriot he wishes them to be even at the loss of a soldiers life...

This will hurt, its a winner and it must be pushed to the fore front and NOT dropped..

[milkyway]

30. What exactly was Josh referring to: "that's what's called getting rolled

by the White House"?

[gasperc]

32. you would think the forged signature would get some play

I printed both memos out, that Killian(sic) guys sig is definately different on both documents.
fuck the AWOL story, nail them on this forgery bullshit

fuck, if Sandy Berger can get smeared for a week for "stuffing his shorts" then the WH staff can feel the heat for explaining a forged document

[WyLoochka]

34. By the use of the "getting rolled"

"by the White House" I think Marshall is indicating that the White House pummeled CBS into not going into much detailed on-air analysis and CBS backed down from a more robust analysis on 60 minutes - hence the 10 minutes given to the segment.

10 minutes makes it look like Bush's utter failure in a long list of subsequent, similar failures his entire life, and his total dishonesty has no real significance.

It doesn't matter that the details are being dissected in the print media and on the internet to reveal the inherently lousy character and lousy attitude BushBoy has ALWAYS had, as long as the truth doesn't appear on the teevee.

It's the teevee viewing "undecided" airheads who will decide the election and the White House knows this. CBS backed down under direct pressure from the White House - that's what Marshall was saying. He wasn't implying that the new info is "lame," which is what the OP implied.

[mbali]

35. Not lame at all - exposed bombshell letter & forced WH to release it

THAT's what journalism is about - doesn't have to be a lot of fireworks - just get the info out there and let the chips fall where they may.