Need advice about Vandalism

[Monty__]

I'm a professor at a university in NW Indiana that shall remain nameless. I try and keep my political views out of the classroom (but sometimes it's obvious when students are actually paying attention because things just come out). Anyway, I have an Obama sticker on the back of my car but NW Indiana is fairly liberal seeing as it's very close to Chicago. Yesterday I reached my car in the faculty lot and one of my favorite students was waiting for me. She said I have bad news and pointed to the door where someone had keyed "Go MCAN" (yes spelled like that) into the side. She then proceeded to tell me she knew who did and that it was someone in one of my classes. She said she did not think this person knew it was my car (not that it makes it any better). I went to the campus police and they said if they found out who did, the kid would likely be expelled. I did not tell them who I had heard had done it. That is my dilemma. I wont the kid punished but I also don't want him expelled. Advice?

[Robb]

1. Talk to your department head

There may be a way they can intervene on the kid's behalf for a lighter punishment. :shrug:

[Monty__]

5. I thought about that

but my department head is on a 2 year leave, the interim is on sabatical. I was thinking of going to my other colleagues in the department but I have a feeling they'll want to push to expel.

[nyc 4 Biden]

29. Why?!

The perp should be expelled and have charges pressed against him/her. It takes a sick person to do that. Also remember that this is probably the only time this person has been caught. I bet this is not his/her first time destroying other people's property.

[TexasObserver]

2. Find out if there is any security tape of the area, and do it fast.

They sometimes recycle tapes, so you have to make sure they save any from that time period. Parking lots are often monitored by security cameras. If they are present, you can check them.

You need photographic proof, or someone who can say they either saw it, or had a perp confess it to them.

[mtnsnake]

3. Make a deal with the cops & university. Tell them you won't press charges or ask for expulsion if

the vandal apologizes and pays for the damage. If the vandal refuses the offer, then nail their ass to the wall.

on edit: BTW, you owe this female favorite student of yours a huge amount of gratitude for coming forward with the perpetrator's name like that. That is very brave of her.

[TornadoTN]

4. Why not expel him?

If he's going to be doing something like this to other people's property, then I highly doubt that higher education is going to make a difference in his life. I know several people I went to college with that were similar to this. They either dropped out or graduated and still are the dredges of society.

I admire your willingness to extend the benefit of the doubt and give the kid a second chance but I don't see how it helps him. Maybe if he does lose something of importance he will begin to rethink his life choices.

[Monty__]

8. Because he's an 18 year old kid

and I keyed people's cars when I was his age. Of course they were usually ex-girlfriends cars :)

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. He's an 18 year old grownup who is accountable for his actions.

Flunk him, THEN turn him in.

[seabeyond]

32. sorry, thought it was a response to me

.

[TornadoTN]

15. I see your point

Although I'm not sure I would take the same approach. Personally, I would let the Police decide how to pursue and leave it up to the University.

My opinion is that if he was faced with the dire consequences of his actions, he would be more likely to rethink his life choices from this point forward. But that's just me - your mileage may certainly vary and you may very well have the proper approach to this.

[seabeyond]

33. sorry, thought it was a response to me

[Hepburn]

28. If he is old enough to vote for "McCan", then he is old enough to be expelled.

Why give him a free pass? If you had seen a student key Obama into the car door of a McCain supporter...would you have reported him? I also agree that if he apologizes and makes restitution, maybe there could be something short of a total expulsion. Some kind of restriction or suspension IF he is contrite and pays.

Vandalism is vandalism. If he cannot do the time, then he should not have done the crime. If there is remorse and restitution, then maybe a lighter sentence if that can be arrange. Otherwise? He NEEDS to be expelled and not get a free pass. Look how Junior turned out from all the passes his Daddy gave him!

JMHO

[seabeyond]

35. sorry, thought it was a response to me

[goletian]

54. then just accept this as karma. let it be.

[seabeyond]

9. because this is the rest of his life and BOYS do really impulsive stupid things

sometimes it behooves us to find the higher path in this stuff and a lesson to learn for a lifetime.

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. MEN often do stupid things. They are still punished for them.

Welcome to the party of personal responsibility MCCAN asshole. You fail, you get expelled, you go to court AND you get to pay $800 to the guy who failed and expelled you. Sometimes it sucks to be stupid.

Sometimes the higher path is not enabling people to avoid learning from their mistakes.

[seabeyond]

37. 18 isnt a man in my book. and i dont agree with you. n/

[TornadoTN]

20. A lesson will only be learned if he is faced with the dire consequences of his actions

He's still an adult and is considered a MAN. He made a conscious choice to do something petty and stupid like this, defacing someone elses property and its certainly not cheap to get a car repainted, especially if it was done deep.

I don't fault anyone for taking the high road, it's just that by taking the high road, in my opinion, we absolve this person of their individual responsibility.

[seabeyond]

39. not if you call hiim on personal responsibility. it is absurd to suggest the only way to hold

someone responsible for action is to expell and call cops

i also think it is telling that all of a sudden, cause it is the other side, this KID is a man and adult when none of us would take this stand if it wasnt a mccain supporter.

we arent nearly as black and white in our thinking with all of mankind until is is a repug.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. A) Of course we're partisan. You say that like it's a bad thing.

B) an 18 year old is accountable for his (or her) actions.

This guy gets to serve as an object lesson to his circle of friends.

[seabeyond]

45. you know it would depend on the guy too. i take a lot into account before this type of decision

but in your very own post you type "guy" not man. cant hardly call an 18 yr old a man either huh? lol. has something to do with getting older. i wasnt a women until at least late twenties. in early thirties said wow... this is what adult feels like

i am a libra. gotta be balanced and just. regardless of party and partisan feel.

[asdjrocky]

6. Make him/her fix it.

Then make them read both of Obamas books.

[Abacus]

17. My thought as well

Give them the ultimatum of fixing it or expulsion. But...Is this person's word the only evidence you have?

[MUAD_DIB]

18. Nice! Good call. A dose of humility and education at the

same time.

Have them do a comparative report on Obama and McCain.


Maybe this will be a turning point for the student.

[seabeyond]

7. absolutely i would pull him in and talk to him. tell him he has to pay for repairs

and also talk to him about the right and wrong of it. see how he does it. if he feels shame confronted and found out. feel it out. as an adult, teach him a lesson and see if you cant find the better of who he is.

i love these types of opportunity with our youth. you should too, being a teacher

and a big pat on the back for the youth that stood by car and waited for you. for being involved

[Monty__]

10. Thanks, this sounds like the best solution

I'm going to talk to the student who witnessed it, make sure they're 100% certain and then talk to the other student.

[Sulawesi]

30. Don't talk to him...check your PM

[seabeyond]

41. ???

[Sulawesi]

43. Sorry, I meant the OP...Cheers!

[Monty__]

49. I just did....

thanks

[uppityperson]

51. Make him do community service with a group he wouldn't ordinarily be around.

Democratic group, or some other group (homeless, women's shelter, HIV support group, melanin/ethnicity/sexual orientation/genetics/etc. thinking of all those groups that McCan voters may loathe)

[seabeyond]

52. works for me. the objective, use this opportunity to open his mind. n/t

[uppityperson]

53. That is what I was thinking also. Hold him responsible and give him the opportunity to learn.

He is old enough to hold responsible, make the punishment suit the crime. Simply expelling him won't teach him enough.

[seabeyond]

55. sheeeit. since the youngest of age the BIG deal in our house is responsibility for action. own it.

IF they own it, they hardly get in trouble. i am all for that. HAS to pay for damage done. that is a must. and then.... from there, lesson learned.

[janx]

11. If the Dept. Chair is not around, can you go to the Dean?

Can you speak to someone in student affairs? There has to be someone you can talk to.

[Ian David]

13. Let them expel him. Repukes never take responsibility for their actions.

If you help him get out of it, he'll never learn.

[ddeclue]

14. Throw his ass out. Give him an F..if he's gonna be an asshole

to you why should you be nice to him?

Doug D.

[Ioo]

16. Expel him, Teach that Right Winger something called "responsibility for actions"

Shit counts...

[TornadoTN]

23. Honestly, I think this may be the best solution

He and his ilk somehow trumpet "personal responsibility" at every opportunity, yet they don't practice it in any form.

[slackmaster]

21. Very interesting topic

Thanks for posting it, Monty.

[Egalitariat]

22. He won't get expelled. Let the cops do their jobs****

nm

[TornadoTN]

26. I agree with the Cops doing their jobs and let the University system deal with it

At the two colleges I attended for both undergrad and graduate work, the cops would have filed the appropriate charges against the person and forwarded it on to the University for their review. Most of the time, students are put on probation for minor offenses and given ample opportunity to redeem themselves.

[CADEMOCRAT7]

24. Life lessons.

I can understand your hesitation, since you are an educator and you do not want to deprive this young person of their studies at this university. Yet, in the bigger picture, it is about accountability. Learning accountability is one of the most important life lessons to learn. Something the GOP has not modeled for this young person. If this person gets expelled, they have to accept the consequences of their actions of damaging another person's property just because they have a different opinion.

[youthere]

25. Find out if there is a security tape (as someone above me suggested)

and if so, approach the student responsible. Tell them they can pay for the damages and you won't report them to the university (which will lead to expulsion). If they don't want to then you have no choice but to file a police report.

[Sulawesi]

27. PMed you

[npincus]

31. TELL THEM.

He deserves expulsion. Or, if you want to persnally petition the school not to expel him, perhaps they will make an exception. The kid deserves punishment. Small crimes unpunished will lead to bigger crimes. Next time he may hurt someone. You never know.

[Sulawesi]

48. OK, what are you going to tell them. "some student told me..." ??

You AT LEAST need to consult with the other student about actions to take. Remember all the while that you have no first hand knowledge of events and that this student is in your class.

I recommend assuming the student is innocent, that the student who told you this is central, and there are likely to be good procedures that you can follow that will protect all three people.

[Political Tiger]

34. If he vandalized your car chances are...

...he's done it to other cars as well. He's committed a crime and needs to be held responsible for his actions.

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. Is there any doubt that his trunk is full of Obama signs?

So far, there are no consequences to his actions.

[rurallib]

36. Were it me I would turn him in. He should have thought about the consequences

before he did it. I am sure he is old enough to know that property damage is a crime and as such could be punished.

[Papagoose]

38. Do you feel compfortable talking to him alone?

Is it possible to give him a bill for the damages under the condition that you will not report it if he apologizes and reimburses you?

Is there any proof other than your other student's word?

[Sulawesi]

47. I would not advise talking to him. You have no information, some other student does. This is a

student in your class and you need to keep these things separate.

[fourvahl]

44. You are the leader by example here

what lesson would there be to teach? Not sure what subject you are teaching at the university but is it possible to take the politics out of it and make a more general comment?

For example - If you were teaching American Literature I am sure there would be a famous author out there that experienced unjust ridicule for their beliefs?

Maybe instead of approaching the student directly you can wrap part of a lecture around what you want to say to this student but make a case in which a way would be beneficial to all..

I guess the bottom line is no matter what the punishment is, what we really want out of this for those listening or those who committed crimes is did they really learn from it? Thats the point IMO.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

46. He needs to be held accountable for his actions

Not because of anything to do with politics either. He needs to learn to respect other people's property. If he is allowed to get away with it now, he'll only escalate his behavior later

But, as it seems you are preparing to do, try and make it as certain as you can that this guy is the guilty culprit. Collect all the evidence you can and make sure that your case is as strong as it can be. It is your choice whether you present the evidence to the authorities or deal with it internally. But don't let it go unpunished

[uppityperson]

50. Make him fix it, hold him responsible for his actions. For punishment, you have to decide what to do

He broke the law, he did something stupid but that is no excuse. He needs to be held responsible for his actions. Community service of a sort that would fit the crime might be a good idea. I am sure that talking with the campus police and admin, you can come to some sort of appropriate thing for him to have to do. Don't let him off though, very much don't let him off. Good luck.

[fifthoffive]

56. You need to protect your position

Do not talk to him, as the only proof you have is the word of another student. There must be no hint that you have taken things into your own hands. This could turn around on you if it appears to be personal or political on your part. Teacher-student relations are sensitive today. Keep it impersonal.

Go to the campus police. It is their job to handle these things.