Who thinks that Karl Rove is NOT smart at all?

[AzNick]

I hear on and on how Rove is so smart. I watched the documentary "Bush's Brain", I read a lot about him, I see him on TV and guess what? I am not impressed.

All the tricks that he pulled, the little cheats, the way he likes to play his opponents, none of it shows real smart, just trickery.

When you play chess, tell your opponent to look the other way, remove a piece when he is looking the other way, and win the game, you're not a good chess player. You're a cheater and, bottomline, you suck.

I am tired of hearing lack of moral values characterized as a sign of high intelligence.

I believe myself to be smart (I am an engineer and pretty good at what I do) and I have strong moral values. I don't steal, I don't lie and, in general, I don't sin (whether you believe in religious sin or not does not matter, you know what I mean).

By cheating against us, they've made us stronger in our resolve and in our organization.

And they have made themselves weaker, therefore unfit for command.

I also believe that Congress did not hold Rove in contempt of Congress by not answering their subpoena not by weakness, but because they knew that Bush would have pardoned him in January.

If they have him arrested and indicted after January 2009, once Obama is elected, he will have no chance of a pardon and, believe me, he will be shitting his pants, unless he chickens out and drags his fat ass in front of Congress.

It is time we stop looking at him as if he was some sort of smart, talented and courageous foe, the type you respect while trying to defeat, but just a big fat idiot who will be crying mommy if he finds himself being bars (remember the poor chump who gets beaten to death on his first night in Shawsank Redemption?)

I am not scared of this big fat idiot. And if you are, then we're going to lose. We need to laugh at him and give the last push.

[sampsonblk]

1. He's no smarter than anyone else

He had a lot of balls, which were lacking on our side. That's the whole ball game.

Rove was willing to risk losing. Our side was extremely unorganized and risk-averse. And he knew it. Shame on us.

[roguevalley]

45. give a bitch a zillion dollars and they will look smart. I don't see him

as more than middling intelligent, rather like a fat ass trying to score his next pie without anyone knowing.

[tblue]

2. If he was really smart, his fingerprints wouldn't be all over every facet of election fraud.

He just lacks any semblance of morals. That's the only thing he brings to the party

[Thothmes]

27. :How many years has he been sentenced to for election fraud?

[Overseas]

49. His fingerprints haven't been all over it. He'd be in jail if they were.

He's at least good enough to maintain plausible deniability.

He makes sure his fingerprints aren't on much so that he can blame "overzealous supporters" for anything found to be illegal.

There's no question that Republicans are involved in election fraud, but which ones at which times and to what extent are issues still being investigated.

Here's info from Spoonamore about GOP electronic fraud efforts:

http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/spoonamore_revelations

================================================
And other information from Clinton Curtis:

UPDATE 12/18/04: The full video of Clint Curtis' sworn testimony before the U.S. House Judiciary Members in Ohio is now available.

Previously, we only had links to a portion of his testimony, which did not include his naming of Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL) as having asked him to write the "vote-rigging software prototype! This clip now includes all of Curtis' testimony!

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=1050

[Richard Steele]

3. I've been saying that for years.

Nothing he's done displays any real intelligence,
any cleverness, or any originality.

His only "strength" is that he's always willing to
sink LOWER than expected.

[JeffR]

4. I posted this in June 2006 & there's not a thing I would change:

He's an evil genius. He's the poster child for Hard Right political cunning. He's got Democrats by the short hairs and he's preparing to yank them out by the follicles. He's invincible. He's unstoppable. He's Karl Christian Rove, mastermind of the Thousand Year Bushreich.

Well, no.

I don't doubt, in his little piggy heart of hearts, he wishes he were all these things. And I don't doubt that many progressives sincerely believe he is all these things. My take is a little different.

Karl Rove is a mere political strategist. His bag of tricks is as small as his wizened scrotum, and just like that portion of his pigment-free, endomorphic anatomy, it contains only two things.

Fear and smear.

Enough to get the job done, pretty much. With the massive enabling power of the conservative media machinery grinding out screeching symphonies of sycophancy and simpering pseudo-patriotic propaganda twenty-four hours a day, with the pussy-footing and hamfisted miscalculation of elected Democrats (not all, but most) who can't distinguish between "repose" and "oppose", with a huge proportion of the populace still so spooked by September 11 it is willing to have its Constitutional rights pissed on, Rove's handiwork has been so easy to accomplish that any mean-spirited 12-year old could have achieved exactly the same result.

America has spent fifty years lurching around with its right foot caught in a bucket. If you listen closely, the clang-clang-clang of that bucket bumping along the pavement of our "bridge to the 21st Century" sounds like words. Listen: "support the troops", "fight them there so we don't have to fight them here", "they hate us for our freedoms", "love it or leave it", "liberals cut and run", "Heartland", "Homeland", "Democrats are out of touch with mainstream American values", "get a haircut", "my country, right or wrong".

Oh, one more thing to add to the unfortunate genital metaphor above: dangling like a purple dolphin just above his little bag of tricks is the organ with which Rove - like so many similarly-endowed Republican strategists before him - has repeatedly screwed the body politic in every available orifice: cheating.

Minority voter disenfranchisement. Gerrymandered districts. Voting machine misallocation. Phone jamming. Ballot switching. Vote counting manipulation. And, if all else fails, drag an election through the courts, higher and higher until finally, Justices Pubic-Hair and Vaffanculo can tip the balance. Presto: Chauncey Gardiner is now the president. It's mourning in America.

Karl Rove's indictment - or lack thereof - never mattered a whit in the great scheme of things. His continued presence - or lack thereof - doesn't change the political calculus this November one iota.

Any Democratic candidate this year should already know that "fear, smear and cheat" will be the tactics of their Republican opponent. Any Democratic candidate will face the usual hot-button rhetoric, the usual shameless distortion of the truth, the usual Orwellian lexicon, the usual transparent appeals to fear, xenophobia and American exceptionalism. Same old same old. Any Democratic voter should know this too.

This will be so whether Rove is kitted out with an orange jumpsuit or whether his pudge is swaddled in the usual Armani. This will be so if the wrath of God descends on him tomorrow and casts him into the bowels of Hell where he can party at the feet of the Devil with Strom Thurmond and Richard Nixon.

Rove didn't invent the recipe for this little excrement soufflé. It's a traditional Republican dish, to which he added a little Tex-Mex spicing. Let's just say he's a decent cook, but he ain't no master chef.

In short, Karl Christian Rove is irrelevant. This is my first and last comment on him.

There's work to be done taking this country back. See y'all later.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1416436

[Mossbeach]

5. I agree....history doesn`t judge how smart you were by how many elections you won...

History will judge him by, 1) did he contribute to good government and 2) did he make the country better. His actions failed miserably.

[Beregond2]

6. Sociopaths are often given credit for being smart,

because they can be effective. But that is only because they are willing to do things that no one with any moral sense would do. Rove was never smart; just conscience-free.

[KillCapitalism]

16. That's exactly right.

I don't see him being smart as I do see him being a great pathological liar who is evil to the core.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

7. Only the unintelligent fall for his stuff, the intelligent people can see right through.

Unfortunately, there are just enough people to fall for his hijinks. There are also enough people who know it's b.s. but sill just vote in their own self-interests if they profit.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

8. Rove was never anything more than a goon

and a bully with a certain reptile intelligence. Cheating, stealing and fear-mongering are the only things he was ever any good at, just like Chimpo. I want to see that motherfucker frogmarched to The Big House ASAP after January 20.

[expatriate]

9. I always thought that he wasn't that much of a genius

After all, anyone would look like a brain compared to that mob he hangs around with. Shrub? Come on.

Being the genius behind George Bush is sort of like trying to use being the world's tallest midget as a claim to fame.

[Essene]

31. Got lucky in 2000, Barely won an easy election in 2004. Lowest approval in history

He's smart in the sense that he really knows the demo data for the nation but so do many others.

His thing was to build a mega-majority using wedge issues and unifying themes for the party, while basically attacking the media.

I'm pretty sure he didn't invent cynical politics.

[Swamp Rat]

10. He's a jeenyus

:D

[LooseWilly]

11. Actually, I think he has shown remarkable aplomb...

he's studied the "inner gears", if you will, of the election mechanics... and was thusly able to spot points that could be exploited.

I'm afraid that does rather make him a genius.

Fortunately, his genius is also toxic, has repercussions, involves a "scorched earth" policy politically... and the sheer incompetence of those he exerted his "genius" to get into power is boomeranging rather harshly on the party.

It was always just a short term strategy, apparently. Unfortunately, once they got control, their policies proved simply to be incompetent. Oops...

[krkaufman]

12. He's fairly smart, but his "genius" is simply the fact that he is immoral ...

... and has no ethical boundaries.

I'd say this election, should we be fortunate enough to have Obama win and also see Democratic gains in the House and Senate, should pretty much confirm the ultimate failure of Karl Rove. The Republican collapse can pretty much be laid at his feet.

[TheDonkey]

13. It's not that he's smart as much as unfortunately the masses can be herded like sheep

under certain conditions like fear.

[Hekate]

14. Hubby has a phrase that fits: "Rat-like cunning." And I hope his tail is in the trap about now. nt

[political_Dem]

15. Rove is not book smart.

I think he graduated from high school, but I believe he doesn't have a college degree. However, the college Republicans (during the Watergate years) taught him "his trade" which took him all the way to the White House. He's been doing these shenanigans since Watergate. The a-hole deserves to be in prison for his life long career of tampering with democracy and disenfranchising voters.

It is only a miracle on his own part that he isn't in jail. I'm hoping that Rep. Conyers remains patient and then starts to prosecute Rove in January. In that way, Bush cannot touch him. There will be no more Executive Privilege to hide behind. He'll have to testify and face his accusers.

[MrSlayer]

17. You can't say the man is not smart.

On pure, cold objective terms, he is a very intelligent man. You don't set up grand operations on that level and, by hook or by crook, win without being smart and extremely cunning. I certainly don't agree with his tactics but he was able to win with them for a long time. He was able to exploit the people to his advantage. He's completely amoral but I do not think he's stupid in the least. It's only cheating or criminal if you get caught and he has insulated himself well.

[SeattleGirl]

18. Me!

He's not smart; he's just fucking MEAN!

How people can confuse the two is beyond me.

[ColbertWatcher]

19. The only thing Rove has done is updated Machiavelli.

Not only is he not "smart," Rove isn't original either.

[Frank Cannon]

35. You're right, but I would challenge whether he even updated Machiavelli

He's just stolen directly from every playbook of dirty tricks ever written. It doesn't take a genius to do that, just a monumental asshole.

[ColbertWatcher]

43. What I meant was adapted Machiavelli to modern technology. n/t

[DarthDem]

20. In Full Agreement

Rove is not stupid. He has, as other posters have elouently pointed out on this thread, recognized political trends at the right time and moved swiftly and decisively to take advantage of those trends.

However, he is no genius. His intellect and even his vaunted instincts are highly overrated, and (as a poster said upthread extremely well), his message and his effectiveness are very short-term in durability. He got away with his brand of politics in 2000 and 2004. In 2002, his strategies were somewhat effective, but their value was obscured by a nation still reeling from the 2001 attacks and the looming confrontation with Iraq. (Actually, it doesn't look like 2002 was all that effective a cycle for the Repukes, since several of the U.S. Senators first elected then, such as Sununu, Liddoid and Normy, are about to go down in flames in their reelection bids. If there's justice, despicable veteran-smearing thug Saxby Chambliss will join this list.)

In 2006 and in 2008, Rove's brand of political thought and strategy is completely toxic, and utterly ineffective. If he were the real genius that some here at DU believe him to be, the Rethuglican Party would not be in the position that it's in.

In addition - - it bears repeating. When people ascribe complex, uber-Machiavellian, almost psionic powers to him, it's laughable, for the reasons stated above as well as simple logic and proabability. Not everything is a ZOMG Roviandeathtrap!!!!!!111 In fact, at this point, pretty much nothing is.

[GreenTea]

21. Rove is a diabolical sneaky liar his tactics are reverse & accuse the oppositon of what he is doing

attack the oppositions strong points, not the weak points as the Dems do, attack the character of an opponent never discuss their message, change the subject, because it's probably the truth, so talk loudly over everyone, distort, smear & lie anything to be heard and the opposition not...like ACORN, accuse them for what they are doing even though what they are doing is ten fold...Purging, vote machines stealing....and it works...

Just watch if they somehow don't steal this election....they will accuse Obama and the Democrats of stealing it, just what hey were trying to do...Rove's a mole, diabolical slime...he doesn't care, has no heart or feelings, he's got his contracts now so fuck everyone and his loyaly is is not to our country for better but to the republicans & corporations how to to steal elections!

[Skittles]

22. me

his "genius" is his ability to routinely do things that would turn any decent person's stomach

[uponit7771]

23. He is above average analytical and he's a cheater, he'll cheat in a second if you let him

[Riddler]

24. Stupid, uninformed, narrow-minded ignorant people being easily misled by a liar

make the liar look smart, but only because of their ignorance.

[shaniqua6392]

25. He has no conscience.

I have always said he is not smart. He is smarter than Bush, but that does not take much effort. He has no conscience and will stop at nothing when facing an opponent. He is a big fat idiot that was probably taunted on the playground when he was a kid and that turned him into an angry and evil man.

[Jackpine Radical]

37. I think you're essentially right. People without conscience entertain thoughts

that normal people don't. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a probation officer or cop say of a criminal's latest antisocial act, "I'd have never even thought of that!" Rove seems smart because he comes up with schemes that the average person would not think of because their decency would keep their minds from"going there."

[RobertSeattle]

26. He's smart, he just has no ethics other than getting his side to win.

[mitchum]

28. Not smart; he just has low animal cunning

[lonestarnot]

29. Lump O Lard is nothing but a cheap stink ass cheat! No brain in that. He's afraid of his own fat

shadow. And for that reason we won't need to imprison him, he's already there. I still want him behind bars for cheating us into a ruined country. Scum sucking pond dweller. :puke:

[blueclown]

30. He's a good political strategist.

A dumb ass in real life, but he is undeniably good at his job.

Is he as great as the media hypes him up to be? No.

[d00mzday]

32. deceiving, criminal = yes - smart = no

[Orsino]

33. Not a genius. Merely unscrupulous.

He's a bag man by trade, who graduated to training other bag men. He does the dirty work for the money men, who maintain plausible deniability.

[mod mom]

34. I think he is a third rate thug who deals in sleaze and lies in hopes of winning.

I am appalled every time he is referred to as a genius. Since when is disenfranchising based on race and political affiliation genius? Not in my definition!

[nyccitizen]

36. Sorry, but anyone who could convince America to vote for GWB twice...

...is pretty smart.

Seriously though, his microtargeting and GOTV organization has been largely duplicated, to great success, by the Obama team. They've obviously added brilliant flourishes of their own, like their internet fundraising and general online presence. But his unscrupulousness aside, the guy was pretty brilliant at winning specific elections.

That said, he obviously made a gross miscalculation when he thought enacting his policies would help ensure a permanent Republican majority.

In short, brilliant on short-term campaigns, not so brilliant on long-term strategy.

[OnionPatch]

38. Well, I don't think he's stupid, but he's definitely no genius.

He has merely been willing to stoop lower than anyone else. This is not a sign of genius, although it may have some short-term results. There's a reason why the majority of people don't stoop so low...they understand that this will eventually bring shame and disrespect to their cause and will actually harm their cause much more than any short-term gain they receive for their dishonesty. We are witnessing this now. The word "Rovian" is going to go down in history as a term meant to describe the nastiest of politics and the Republican party is in the crapper. A genius? I think not. "Sociopath" is the word that comes to mind.

[MelSC]

39. Never thought he was particularly smart...

...and the people who can't see through him and think highly of him or even worse.

[JHB]

40. Rove isn't a genius, * isn't dumb...

As has been mentioned, Rove isn't a genius, he's just just takes "win at all costs" to sociopathic levels of amorality.

Likewise, Chim-Chim isn't inherently dumb: if he hadn't had everything handed to him his whole life and actually had to earn a living, my bet is that he'd be someone else's "Karl Rove".

[BlooInBloo]

41. KARL ROVE IS GAWD!!!!!!

To wussy DUers at least.

[Festivito]

42. Middle management smart. Inside information makes him look smarter.

He does the dirty tricks so he knows where the truth lies. If others performed the same tricks on him, he'd understand them and the tricks, but aside from that, in a world of dirty tricksters he'd be nothing special and the world would be still back in the stone age, if that.

Having dual citizenship and family connections to Rothschilds, Swiss banking, lets him act smarter than he is because he can disappear if needed to another country and into the arms of grateful rich banker family and friends.

Other than that he's just another fat lunkhead with a penchant for what he really thinks he deserves, turd blossoms from well built strong military men like Jeff Gannon standing over him and telling him he's dirty and worthless. At least that's my guess.

[NHDEMFORLIFE]

44. Unfettered from any semblance of a conscience

That doesn't make him smart. He appealed to people's lowest instincts and cashed in. A pretty simple concept.

[Samantha]

46. Karl Christian Rove has never seen a political line he would not cross

He is totally without ethics, and despite his middle name, without morals. Many of us could do what Karl Rove has done, but we do have a line we will not cross. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.

When he said "win at all costs" in 2000, he meant it. There were no limits, being the protege of Lee Atwater, as to what he was willing to do to win.

Bush* learned his political know-how at Karl Rove's feet, so he too suffers from the same problem. That was the big difference+ that separated Bush* from Gore, but it is a difference that is seldom commented upon. Gore in Washington was known as a man who had the utmost personal integrity, so "win at all costs" was not in his political play book...while it was Rove and Bush*s entire play book.

Sam

+ well, that and the Supreme Court.

[ronnykmarshall]

47. THIS IS A TRAP!

You're nothing but a prawn of KKKarl sent here to make us look the other way!!!

[AzNick]

48. Nah he is not that smart

LOL

[beachmom]

50. Karl Rove is ruthless with no morals, and he is a cheater.

That is why he was successful for a time, but of course, it didn't last. And if he was so smart, where is that permanent Republican majority he said he was going to bring?

[tbyg52]

51. Nope. Just sly, mean, and amoral. nt