Regarding Palin, the Vice Presidency, & the Senate

[H2O Man]

"On November 5, 1960, Lyndon Johnson won election for both the vice presidency of the United States, on the Kennedy-Johnson ticket, and for a third term as Senator (he had had Texas law changed to allow him to run for both offices). When he won the vice presidency, he made arrangements to resign from the Senate, as he was required to do under federal law, as soon as it convened on January 3, 1961.

"Johnson was sure he still would be a figure of power in Washington, no matter how powerless a job the vice presidency had been in the past. He would break the mold. ‘Power is where power goes,’ he told journalists. Furthermore, although he was giving up his seat in the Senate, he did not plan to give up his power there. ….

" …..Johnson, Humphrey was to say, ‘had the illusion that he could be in a sense, as vice president, the Majority Leader.’ ….and when Johnson said he was sure Mansfield would go along, the fact that the plan would violate the constitutional separation of powers between the Executive and Legislative Branches was raised. …

"Several senators jumped to their feet to object. Johnson …had to recognize them. Among the first were Joe Clark and Albert Gore. Looking directly at Johnson, Gore said angrily, ‘We might as well ask Jack (Kennedy) to come back up to the Senate and take his turn at presiding. I don’t know of any right for a Vice President to preside or even be here with senators.’ …"
--Lyndon Johnson: Master of the Senate; Robert A. Caro; Alfred A. Knopf; 2002; pages 1035-1038.

Should any DUers want a resource to answer any questions about how wrong Sarah Palin is about the role of the vice president, I believe that historian Robert Caro has provided it.

[H2O Man]

1. RFK, Jr on Countdown .....

I believe that Robert is a guest on Keith's show tonight.

[H2O Man]

9. My error..... he's on Rachel's show. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Excellent source

thanks for posting it.

[H2O Man]

5. Thank you. n/t

[Hekate]

3. Cheney, unfortunately, broke the mold & set new precedent. Fortunately, Palin is no Dick Cheney...

She hasn't the brains and she would be in waaaaaay over her head.

Hekate

[H2O Man]

4. Not in the Senate.

Cheney expanded the OVP. It had been being expanded since Nixon was VP in the 1950s; he was in charge of military intelligence operations in Central and South America. Some others had expanded roles. None played an expanded role in the US Senate.

[unblock]

20. cheney's powers did not derive from the ovp

his powers derived from his unofficial control over the president, be it by intimidation, hypnosis, force of intellect, or right hook.

had shrub, at any point, decided to render cheney impotent, he could have done so and the office of the vice-president would once again be valued roughly as a bucket of warm piss.

had he tried that, of course, cheney might have invited him on a hunting trip....

[H2O Man]

21. Cheney

had his own intelligence agency, kept beyond the oversight of Congress, with its reach going into the Pentagon and State Department. It was, indeed, run from the OVP.

[unblock]

23. understood, but by what authority?

couldn't shrub, in theory at least, evicerate all that by executive order?

[H2O Man]

24. Oh, yes,

I'm agreeing with you -- Bush and Cheney moved beyond the powers that were intended for the OVP, as part of the move from the "imperial presidency" (Nixon) to "revolutionary executive" (Bush-Cheney). It was a coordinated effort between the two. Cheney had been in the Nixon administration, along with Rumsfeld, and they both felt Nixon got a bad deal. They were plotting and planning for years to increase the power of the executive branch. When Bush2 was elected, Cheney had a partner in crime. He explained how Bush could increase his power, without having to answer to Congress, by having Cheney increase his under the cover of the OVP.

You are absolutely right. Bush was responsible for this. He not only allowed it, he endorsed it, and he promoted it.

[H2O Man]

6. Chris Matthews

just mentioned this example on Hardball.

[Blackhatjack]

7. And this shows how far Cheney went to distort the powers of the VP position...

and how confused Palin is about the job.

[H2O Man]

11. Cheney expanded it

in different ways .... he refused to recognize the authority the Congress has in the balance of powers, but the Congress failed to take the issues to the third branch when they could have and should have.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

8. They won't her her run the Cloak Room.

Excellent post my friend :hi: :pals: :)

[H2O Man]

13. Hi, SCE!

According to Keith Olbermann's show, Sarah and her family were provided with a $250,000 "clothing allowance" by the republican party. Maybe she won't need to be stealing from the Cloak Room.

Of course, she isn't going to be elected, anyhow.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

17. Why do Colorforms come to mind?

Pricey ones though they may be ;)

[spanone]

10. her ability to remain ignorant about the very job she seeks is telling.

no one is home

[H2O Man]

14. It's pathetic.

McCain's judgement has been exposed as being as weak as Palin is shallow.

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. My Political Science Degree laughed at those that questioned it

and went to Wikipedia



We even had fake Senate sessions for 6 weeks with a Constitutional guest scholar.
I think Harry Reid issued a statement on this nonsense.

[H2O Man]

15. Back in 1960,

Evans & Novak wrote a blistering column on LBJ's error. I've been thinking that McCain has been morphing into Bob Novak lately. Why didn't Senator McNovak tell poor Sarah?

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. I miss Evans.... My Dad who worked for the joint chiefs in the 60s said that

they had an ear on what was happening. I'm sure Evans wrote the blistering column
Novak coasted on Evans.

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. H2O..... I hope you caught Keith ..

I was laughing my ass off!!!!

[H2O Man]

22. I did ....

watch it and laugh.

[bleever]

19. Palin is a tabula rasa, like Bush.

She thinks she special, ordained to lead, and completely incurious about what she may or may not know.

Johnson was a wily, devious bastard with a genius for playing institutions, and making powerful organizations out of previously perfunctory shells.

Palin has no idea of the extent to which she is no LBJ.


(I haven't gotten to Master of the Senate yet; I got sidetracked by The Power Broker, which is also an incredibly fascinating book.)

[H2O Man]

25. She has become

a ball & chain on John McCain. Funny, that.

The Mika Mouse Club is attempting to explain away her gaffs and $150,000 in clothing/hair expenses.