Kerry is being tuned out....NYT article.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

Heres a sobering article from the NYT on why Ohio is really going to be tought for Kerry

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/06/politics/campaign/06voices.html?position=&ei=5006&en=1794eb23d5bb18fc&ex=1095048000&adxnnl=1&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1094443255-u4ka9W7cDMdSDXvPBtWogA


NEW LEXINGTON, Ohio, Sept. 3 - Sharon Alfman, the cook at the little County Seat Diner here, might seem to be a likely John Kerry supporter. She has voted Democratic most of her life. She has no health insurance through the diner, and her husband's insurance ran out after he was on disability for more than a year. But she already knows that she is going to vote for President Bush.

Mrs. Alfman, 51, said that if the Democrats could do anything about health insurance, they would have done it under Bill Clinton. Now, she said, the Democrats have "burned themselves out." And like several other people here in this gritty patch of southeastern Ohio, she has already tuned Mr. Kerry out. A Kerry commercial, in which he says his economic plan would provide "good wages and good benefits," came on the overhead television by the kitchen, and no one seemed to notice.

"Kerry doesn't know what the working-class people do; he hasn't done any physical labor all his life," said Mrs. Alfman, who gets up at 4 a.m. to start her job. "Bush's values are middle-class family values."

...not good.

[democracyindanger]

1. Seeyle's horrible

I'd treat anything with her byline as if it appeared in the Moonie Times.

[Cha]

40. I remember her from Gore's campaign year

when I still use to read the NYT. She's doing the same thing to Kerry. And protecting that bushmonster...will somebody answer that witch with verbal velocity?

[democracyindanger]

42. Yep I gave up on the NYT too

If there's something worth reading, DU or a blog will link me. Seelye, Wilgoren, Gerth, Miller--they turned the Gray Lady into a streetwalker.

[fizzana]

53. Unfortunately there are people out there who think just like this.

Irrespective of the writer's biases people like this do exist and it is a huge problem for Kerry because a lot of the lying propoganda spewed out by the GOP is effective because the average person is to wrapped up in their own lives to pay more than glancing attention to the cnadidates and the issues.

Unfortunately, the demonizing of Kerry and Democrats and Liberals has been going on for a long time and a lot of people are seduced by it. When it's wrapped up in a macho pseudo-patriotic swagger as well it is effective. It's also right out of the Mussolini/Franco playbook and is damn effective at swaying the masses.

Kerry and the Democrats must get as tough as they have to and as dirty as they have to. We cannot afford to lose and if ever the ends justify the means, this is it.

[JI7]

2. another hit piece from Seelye, check her other hit pieces on Kerry

and Edwards. she was the one who wrote some disgusting article on Kerry having a "manservant" when in reality he just has an aide like most candidates running for president do.

she wrote a disgusting article on edwards making him out to be some pushy asshole.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

11. listen, I live in Ohio...so dont spin this to me.

This is a good article, and bears paying attention too. It rings true to what I personally know of this state.

[kaitykaity]

31. You are right about Seeyle. She was one of the "IT"

girls in 2000 that helped gore Al Gore.

Disregard everything she writes as blathering drivel.

Add her to the list of Dickie Berke, Adam Nagourney,
Ceci Connolley, and Jodi Wilgoren who either need to
go back to journalism school or be assigned to the obit
page.

[Kimber Scott]

3. And just when did Bush do any hard labor.

While he was missing from the National Guard, I suppose. Oh, nope. He was doing POLITICS.

[elperromagico]

8. Oh, Bush clears brush on his pig farm... err, ranch (wink wink).

That's hard work. ;)

[Kimber Scott]

47. Yes, it is hard to pose in the hot sun like that. I will give him that.

nt

[bklyncowgirl]

61. Image is reality

It's disgusting but I do think that people see Bush's manufactured image as real. The media has helped him immensely by allowing him to wear this multimillionaire, Yale educated, failed businessman son of a president to wear the mask of a tough talking, brush clearing cowboy.

In order to learn anything different you have to make an effort and most people these days don't have the time, the inclination or in many cases the opportunity to make that effort.

[elperromagico]

4. Let me get this straight; this woman is voting for Bush

because she doesn't think the Democrats will come up with a health insurance plan?

What does she expect Mr. Bush to do if given another four years?

[Clinton Crusader]

67. so this Mrs. Alfman REALLY believes

that stupid-is-as-stupid-does will provide her will health care???

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!

Mrs. Alfman when she tries to check into a hospital-->:nuke:
:kick:

[sonicx]

5. she's out of her goddamn mind

"Kerry doesn't know what the working-class people do; he hasn't done any physical labor all his life," said Mrs. Alfman, who gets up at 4 a.m. to start her job. "Bush's values are middle-class family values."

up is down, down is up

:puke:

[Ms. Clio]

49. But she herself is working-class, not middle-class

It's right there in her own goddamn words--arghhhhhh.

Excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall.

[iamjoy]

6. Why He Needs John Edwards

When Senator Kerry tapped Senator Edwards as the running mate, some people said Edwards wouldn't help Kerry in the South. I responded that it wasn't about winning North Carolina, it was about winning Ohio.

Still, it is annoying and frightening that Kerry is being tuned out, especially when they say the Democrats should have done something under Bill Clinton. People have awfully short memories, Mrs. Clinton tried to do something and the insurance industry backed Republicans shot it down. In the early 1990s, healthcare wasn't in enough of a crisis. Now, the problems are becoming more apparent but people forget what Hillary tried to do.

[JI7]

14. this writer is anti Kerry and has written similar hit pieces against Edwar

against edwards

[iamjoy]

20. Love The Liberal Media! (n/t)

[senseandsensibility]

7. OMG

I didn't realize this was written by Sealye. Talk about a mediawhore. Sure, through selective quoting, you can show some idiot who thinks * is more in touch with the working people. What does that prove? It's hardly representative of working people, and this article is her usual propaganda.:puke:

[mitchum]

9. Is it wrong of me to wish for a devastating grease fire?

Ms. Alman sounds like an idiot.
Seeyle IS a Bush shill

[Droopy]

10. Poor Mrs. Alfman

Somebody who would really benefit from Kerry's policies throwing it out the window. She thinks she's middle class? Not from working in a diner. I call that working poor seeing as how her husband isn't working either. Not that Bush cares about the middle class, either. Just what do poor people who vote for Bush see in him? Don't they remember the Clinton years? How the economy boomed?

[DaveinMD]

12. and yet

the polls show Kerry with a great chance of winning Ohio.

[featherman]

13. Just Kate Seelye whoring for Bush as usual..ho hum

A good reporter could also find and quote a typical voter willing to say the Bush is a space alien and she wants to have his baby. And write an entire story about it demonstrating the "space alien" factor to be a strong trend in Ohio voting.

[fizzana]

15. This is why I choose to live in California

it's at least partly sane here.

[Ready4Change]

16. I 've met some conservatives who are just tired.

Tired of listening, tired of thinking critically, tired of finding that polititians words don't match their actions.

The odd thing, to me, is that this "voting fatigue" has made them decide they are voting for Bush, not matter what anyone says. It's like they've been defeated by their own leader, and can't be bothered to kick him out.

I really don't understand this mentality, but I've witnessed it firsthand.

[cornfedyank]

34. they have tredded water as about as long as the can.

I still think there's one more "I made as hell, and i'm not going to take it anymore", left in the human spirit.

that said, Show them the vision.

[hatrack]

17. Great, so old Mrs. Greasetrap isn't going to vote for Kerry . . .

Next we can read a post from Howard the Duck or Judith Miller about how Mr. Peggotty thinks his hair looks "funny". Woop-dee-doo.

[Julien Sorel]

18. This guy says it all

"I always wanted to have enough money to be a Republican, and I almost made it under Clinton," said Joe Ogden, 59, who sells insurance and real estate and is an auctioneer. "Then George got in and it all went to hell."


By the way, I thought that was a fairly balanced piece of journalism, although the anti-Kerry stuff was more prominently placed than it should have been.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

27. yeah, i liked that line too!

I thought it was a good overview of folks opinions.....it does show that Kerry has a way to go, tho, to reach the people who would seem to be his base...

...you wouldnt think an real estate agent/insurance salesman/auctioneer would be the Democrat, though, would you...? I thought that was funny.

[benfranklin1776]

51. What do you recommend as the best approach to reach those people?

They are voting against their own self interest and don't realize it. Middle class values are not rewarding large corporations and wealthy people with lavish tax breaks that bust the budget and eliminate any chance of her health care crisis being resolved any time in the near future and she is certain to fall behind even further under four more years of Dumbya a man who has never done an honest days work in his life. How then does one puncture that bubble of ill formed misconceptions that the media or right wing talk radio has placed her in? What do you think is a good way to get through to her?

[istruthfull]

19. brainwashed

Poor lady, like so many, is brainwashed.

[Old and In the Way]

26. My thoughts, too.

The programming was a success!

Seems if she thought it through, she'd remember who killed the effort to get a national health insurance program for Americans....it was the Republicans who derailed it. Maybe if she helped elect Democrats to Congress, she'd see some progressive legislation in her lifetime. I don't understand how she see believes Bush is middle-class.....this is obviously the result of way too much corporate media programming.

[The_Casual_Observer]

21. I'll bet that there is no "Mrs Alfman"

and if pressed on it, they would say " She is a composite of many we have spoken to..."

[Only Me]

55. Here is the addy and phone# somebody be brave and call?!

Address:
County Seat Diner
[phone] 323 W Broadway St
New Lexington, OH

I would love to know if this just big smear
but I'm to Chicken to call!

BUT on second thought, they would probably just say "Yes" and no comment or something.

[punpirate]

22. A hatchet job...

... interviewing people that could have provided quotes to Thomas Frank while he was writing -What's The Matter With Kansas?_

"Bush's values are middle-class family values."

Why do these people believe this? Bush is an effete, elitist snob, with no real connection with the middle class. But, he talks plainly, so people think. One can lie in plain language, too.

This is more of the myth that you can sit down and have a beer with this guy, which is just more myth-making.

If the Kerry campaign were smart, they'd have someone from the campaign at each of these people's businesses, talking to them about the reality of the situation, rather than what they've been led to believe.

[DemMother]

23. If you want to know more about Kit Seelye, just go to Daily Howler

I did a search of articles with her name and I got 51 hits, including:


Katharine "Kit" Seelye is faking again. She'll do it until she is ...
... Caveat lector. TRAINED SEELYE! Katharine “Kit” Seelye is faking again. She’ll do it until she is stopped: ... Katharine “Kit” Seelye is lying again. ...

Our pundits are back on the campaign trail. So is their trademark ...
... But like Freddy Kruegger, Kit Seelye is baaaaaccckk—as is the assault on the public interest provided by our inane mainstream press corps. ...

The New York Times--and Judy Woodruff--let you see what they've ...
... “KIT” SEELYE’S WORLD OF SPIN: Katharine “Kit” Seelye lives to spin you. More precisely, she lives to spin you against Major Democrats. ...

White House slugs are sliming Clarke. Your press corps is happy to ...
... Katharine “Kit” Seelye is quite upset because Dems don’t speak in alphabetical order. ... “Kit” Seelye has long been a registered cuckoo. ...

Katharine Seelye continued her nonsense right through the ...
... But then, for the past two years, the Times' "Kit" Seelye has been a journalistic junk man. We can only hope that descendants will ...

Seelye traveled back ten years to spin you on Kerry's proposal
... DeConcini and Byrd. TOMORROW: From the RNC’s lips to “Kit” Seelye’s ears—how Spinner One makes it happen. DANA DOES DALLIANCE ...

To take a look at the rest of the horror show, or to read these articles, go to:

http://www.google.com/custom?q=kit+seelye&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3Ac32a032061318778%3B&domains=dailyhowler.com&sitesearch=dailyhowler.com

[Droopy]

24. Goddammit, I'm going to be blunt

Bush's appeal to people like Mrs. Alfman is that he looks, acts, and talks like her people. That's all there is to it. He's Uncle Joe Six Pack. If we could somehow make the working poor see beyond that act and look into his policies they would know that he doesn't represent their interests at all. But, dammit, so many people vote on image it's just pathetic.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

30. yeah, I think so too....

Bush does have that good-old-boy thing going.

[Only Me]

56. I couldn't agree more. I see it all the time in my state. nt

[Sheldon Rowan]

25. That's Seelye

I think that she was cherrypicking. However, it certainly provides an opening for Kerry. It's not like Bush has done a lot of work in his life.

[newyawker99]

66. Hi Sheldon Rowan!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[John_H]

28. Seeyle--trying to outdo 2000's goring whores, using the same techniques

This piece employs my fave whore gimmik--using the anecdotal to "prove" a subjective or flat out made up general assertion. Pls. see the LA times nobody-claps-for kerry-on Iraq story. Or the Nobody wants to have a beer w/ kerry story repeated a couple of times during the convention on CNN.

[Ducks In A Row]

29. Oh yeah, and I bet little miss "I vote dem"

doesn't remember all the crap the rethugs gave the clintons about health care, and how they run those commercials and got the public screaming "no, please don't give us health care".

I remember almost pulling my hair out trying to unconfuse people.

[EST]

57. What I have found to be the most effective

is I ask the potential kerry voter if they are conservative or liberal-usually they will say conservative. Then I ask them a series of questions, do you think helping sick/poor/little old/starving babies/helpless/crippled people is ok? Then a couple more set up questions (read the definitions and make up your own as needed) and I whip out my trusty American Heritage dictionary from under my arm and read or have them read the definitions of liberal and conservative. You absolutely won't believe the skocked faces you will get to see! Then ask well-are you lib or con? This works almost every single time.

[gristy]

71. Man

You have a dictionary under your arm? They put up with all these questions? You don't get slugged before your "teaching moment" is over? You are braver than I!

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

32. I notice a lot of focus on the byline and not too much on the content.

You know, I live in Ohio, and I find the voices in this article credible.

I think aot of posters are in denial about the difficulty in reaching these people and conteracting the GOP message that has been going out, and accepted by these folks.

Instead theres a focus on the bi-line to wave-off the content...because you all dont want to hear the content or believe the content.

And thats all Im going to say on this.

[DaveinMD]

33. I addressed it

YOu can always find some people that tune out the message. But the fact is that KErry is very competitive in Ohio right now. And its not a state he has to win. He needs to win one of OH, MO or FL. He's doing well in all three.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

35. actually that article has hope for Kerry....

..you can tell a few folks are still looking at him...and that its both the economy and the economy.....that can hurt Bush.

As you say..Ohio is pretty even, and this is why.

I think there is room for a two-track strategy here...Iraq + economy....

Some, like that chef, you wont reach. Other, well, they are listening....

[yardwork]

50. I grew up in Ohio and currently live in a deep red state

and I agree with you that this woman - composite or no - does represent a lot of shrub's supporters.

I just don't know how to reach them. I am honestly baffled by their attitudes.

[sally343434]

38. You're full of it!

I think the article is crap and written by a hack and you don't know what you're talking about!

>>> JUST KIDDING! <<<

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

While there is a possibility that Ms. Hairnet has an unspoken religious motivation or other such handicap, what you say is very true. It goes far beyond Ohio, believe me. Even where I live, which is considered fairly liberal, I will run into the occasional Bushbot. When I get them to start talking politics without revealing any opinion of my own, they almost uniformly spout some idiotic non-sequitur, or else they don't know why. It's "just because."

Kerry has his work cut out for him, especially when he has none of the traditional media channels available to him. They're all controlled by partisan republicans.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

39. heh..the article is a mixed bag, actually.

you see folks like the lady chef, but then theres that auctioneer....

Then the undecided few, too....

I think it was an interesting article, where you could see where the Dems have failed their potential base, but also suggests some lines of attack, too...

[TheRovingGourmet]

41. A similar situation occurred here in Texas when we began the

shift from a Democratic state to a Republican one. There was not much for the Democratic Party to say about conditions here since they had been running the show since Reconstruction. I have faith that a new generation of Democrats will swing things back the other way.

[DaveinMD]

44. the changing demographics

are our hope in Texas. It will take another generation, but when all the Latinos are registered to vote we will be able to win Texas again. Its already happening in Arizona and Colorado.

[TheRovingGourmet]

46. Latinos may or may not vote for Democrats though. I'm putting

more stock in a new generation of Democratic politicians that can reach out and connect with the voters again.

[Guaranteed]

60. I read it...and there was a lot of GOOD stuff for Kerry

which you don't seem to recognize in your post.

To think this person was going to write an article stating that Kerry is being tuned out in small towns based on one woman and a TV is absurd. Or maybe someone would- but it sure wouldn't be credible.

The point is that this article is purely anecdotal. It doesn't mean a damned thing.

[LibertyorDeath]

36. This person is either certifiable or retarded

one or the other or both.

Only a mental degenerate could say this & mean it

a complete ignorant imbecilic fucktard

""Bush's values are middle-class family values."

could you say that again I'm no retarded enough yet.

From Karl Rove's mouth to her lips

Are there many more like this in Ohio?

How bad is it.

[monarch]

73. Why not try to reach people like Mrs. Alfman

instead of demeaning them? At least she's trying to think about the issues. The Kerry campaign, or even people here, should make a practice of writing gentle (very gentle) personal letters to people like this flattering them about getting in the paper and pointing out where they have been misled and why Kerry would be better on the issues that concern them. Maybe some minds could be changed and who knows whether they'll be interviewed again some time in the future.

[progressivebydesign]

37. AND BUSH is MIDDLE CLASS????

How utterly backward these people are?? Do they even KNOW HOW RICH Bush is? His family's wealth makes the Kerry look like a pauper. That is just so fucking ridiculous.. Bush, middle class values? Really? Well lady, I can't remember any time in my life when I vacationed at my compound in Maine, nor my 200K acre estate (not ranch) in Texas, nor have I ever spend thousands on cocaine as a teenager, nor did I go to Yale, nor did I wear green fucking plaid golf pants at a private golf club! I'm Middle Class.. and George Bush is NO middle class.

That is just the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[dennis4868]

43. Maybe the writer of this article made up Sharon Alfman....

and it is all a bunch of bull to make Kerry look bad?

[progressivebydesign]

68. Sharon Alfman exists..

she is found in the phone books. Whether or not she's really a "lifelong Democrat" is not something anyone could confirm. The area is UBER rightwing. ALL their reps are republicans, it's near a military base (from what I gathered). Oddly enough, these poor people live in an area that has been utterly dessimated with job loss and factory closures... From the research I did, the people there are unusual in one way, for Republicans, they feel the gov't should help the poor. They are considered Appalachian region.. so that might be why they have a feeling for that. The factories in Ohio were a place that many of the poorest of poor travelled to work decades ago, that's my guess.

I don't dislike this woman for her views. She has a right to her opinion. Doesn't make her stupid... just uninformed, or worse.. she deliberately tried to sound like a Democrat that is shunning Kerry. My father in law says he's a "lifelong Democrat", but he is the most rabid republican you've ever met. He just registers as a Democrat..

[jackstraw45]

45. George Bush: Hero of the STUPID - Mrs. Alfman is a prime example

I can't believe people this DUMB live in our country.

"Kerry doesn't know what the working-class people do; he hasn't done any physical labor all his life."

Yeah, serving and getting wounded 4 times in Viet-F*CKING-nam was a walk in the daisies compared to Bush's tough life.

I WEEP for the MILLIONS of MORONS in this country.

[oasis]

48. Sharon the sheeple you're a dumbass just like the rest of your people.

:thumbsdown:

[NJCher]

52. read closely--the people who have done their homework are for Kerry

A more realistic headline for this article would be "Lazy Voters are for Bush; Those Who Do their Homework are for Kerry."

Maybe the writer has a history of being a shill but in this particular article she did interview a variety of people. Unfortunately, she's placed the most ignorant ones in the beginning of her article because she's trying to prove her thesis statement--that hard times no longer guarantee a vote for the Dems.

The other half of the story is the reason some people are voting for Republicans when it's not in their best interest. For that part of the story, you have to figure it out yourself--or read Thomas Franks' What's the Matter with Kansas?

Look at the example of the coal miner. He says bush put $447 million into coal research. You can believe that figure came from his employer. I'll bet this guy doesn't know that the U.S. has a defense budget of something like $500 billion a year and that's not even counting Iraq. And that the next runner up to our defense budget is China--at $46 billion a year. These figures will escape him, as does the big picture. Kerry is a "tree-hugger" who will raise his taxes. How neatly his view fall into the spiteful categories the republicans have defined for him.

When you get to the end of this article, it's the California transplants who have an eye toward civil rights or the working people who have done research who are leaning toward Kerry. In other words, people who have bothered to do their homework.

Maybe I'll print out Paul Krugman's column comparing the bush/Kerry health plans and mail it to the diner. I'm sure Sharon Altman will find his conclusion of interest:

The difference couldn't be starker. Mr. Kerry offers a health care plan that would extend coverage to most of those now uninsured, paid for by rolling back tax cuts for those with incomes over $200,000. President Bush offers a tax credit that would extend coverage to fewer than 5 percent of the uninsured, plus a new tax break for the affluent that would actually increase the number of uninsured. As I said last week, I don't see how Mr. Bush can win this debate.


Cher

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

54. Hello!!! Earth to Ms. Alfman!!!!

All that peace and prosperity under Clinton must have lulled you into a false sense of security. Chimpy is and will continue to be an 'effin disaster at home and abroad.

I'll bet her favorite book is "My Pet Goat."

:crazy:

:tinfoilhat:

[Piperay]

58. These Alfman people are the

kind that would be drowning and as they go under for the third time are refusing to take the life preserver and fighting the lifeguard off, very sad. :-(

[VolcanoJen]

59. Why do you hate Ohio so much?

Honestly, Waverley. You're always finding ways to pick on your adopted state and Kerry's chances to put it in his column on November 2.

It's frustrating to me, especially since the Ohio campaign is so energized, so over-staffed that it's bursting... we're busting our asses to win this state.

One New York Times article does not a state break.

Maybe we could meet for a latte; I'd love to explain, and show you what a fantastic place this is. That would include driving around the numerous Cincinnati neighborhoods that sport Kerry signs. It's exciting, and I wish you'd give it a try. You might even want to consider volunteering for the campaign so you can see it from the inside out.

You've got to drop this negativity, man. It's bringing me down. :-)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

72. Great to hear this about the Ohio campaign, jen

hope you've registered everyone insight!

[oasis]

62. "Kerry's too scary" is the 2004 version of "Better dead than red". The

same idiot mentality.

[liberal N proud]

63. We are talking Southeast Ohio here, this is a den of republican smear

tactics. They are Carl Roves best friends.
The lady's story about being a life long Democrat is most likely fabricated.

[Flubadubya]

64. A Howler or a Groaner??? ...you decide.

"I always wanted to have enough money to be a Republican, and I almost made it under Clinton," said Joe Ogden, 59, who sells insurance and real estate and is an auctioneer. "Then George got in and it all went to hell."

What kind of twisted logic is this? If this is the mentality that drives this country, then we really can just hang it up and crawl in our holes.

[bread_and_roses]

65. Someone should tell the coal miner

about georgie-porgie's record on miner safety. And the "middle-class" person the quote of georgie telling his - was it $25000 a plate? - audience that the "have-more's" are his base. The health care one is harder, I think. Woman obviously has a long memory, and Hillary's plan WAS a mess, though not for the reasons the right wing spun. Kerry on health care sounds weak to me - more so than on jobs, where I think his message is more focused and stronger.

It's ok to focus energy on wooing the "middle-class" since it seems about 90% of us think we're middle-class, but I'd like to see more messages about WORKER protections, WORKER wages, WORKER tax relief, and WORKER health care. Because even if these people call themselves middle-class, they also know they are "workers."

[sonicx]

69. Howard Stern talked about this article on his show today...

and the dumb lady

[ItsMyParty]

70. So Clinton had a "chance"--you mean with Newt and the boys

controlling everything?? And Bush has had 3 and a half years and since '02 a republican congress----what did he give her??-----Oh, wait, I know the answer "the bill".