McCain wants you to think this financial meltdown was caused by Dems & FAnnie & Freddie, NPR concurs

[JohnWxy]

NPR interview with NYT Duhigg lets Duhigg push the lie that the Democrats share equal resposiblity for this Financial Disaster. Bull! It was caused by deregulation of the financial markets and futures trading by Phil Gramm (McCain's choice for Treasury Secretary).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x35162

[HEyHEY]

1. Can't people just be wrong? Can't that one journalist be wrong?

Why the fuck is everything a god damned conspiracy with you people?

[Danieljay]

3. who are the "you people" you are referring to? All people are saying is

that government deregulation led to a lot of this mess and the Republican party is mostly responsible FOR this deregulation. That's not a conspiracy, that is fact.

[HEyHEY]

4. I'm talking about accusing NPR of "Pushing the lie"

[JohnWxy]

8. I said NPR let Duhigg "push the lie" that dems are as responsible as Repubs for the credit crisis.

That is BULL!

I know damn well, Duhigg knows enough about this situation to know that it was caused by deregulation pushed by the Republican party - it doesn't take that much reading (how much have you read on this subject?) to know that deregulation caused this crisis and that Republicans are the ones who have always been pushing deregulation. - Really that it not any big "bulletin".

I also heard the interview - did You? Duhigg talked mostly about Fannie and Freddie but he did state that the problem was much Bigger than Fannie and Freddie - but he did NOT go into the UNregulated trading in futures and in financial derivatives - that might have required getting into how trading in these things came to be deregulated.

To talk about this financial disaster and not mention deregulation is lie-ing by ommission.

[JohnWxy]

5. Duhigg works for the NYT he's supposed to get his facts lined up and

accurately represent the situation / issue he is reporting on. The amendment that would have stopped Fannie-Mae and Freddie Mac from buying sub-prime mortgages was voted down by every Republicans.

The bills to Deregulate the trading in energy futures (and others) the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act" and the "Financial Services Industry Modernization Act" were both sponsored by The Republican party, sponsored by Phil Gramm, and voted for by John McCain. THis fact pertains to this election as it shows McCain is for deregulation - as he is with regard to Health insurance. THis is something of great import to voters.

It is these bills deregualting transactions in futures and financial derivative instruments which caused this financial meltdown. Now if the M$M (NOT JUST DUHIGG) isn't telling this story they either are Autistic or Dimwitted (in the extreme) or are staying away from it for some other reason. But maybe you just think they are incompetent idiots or Autistic, but well meaning. Some say ignorance is bliss. Don't let me spoil your happiness.

The main thing for people (who really want to understand this thing) to come away with is that deregulation is what caused the financial disaster we are in. It wasn't the fact that Fannie and Freddie were also mis-managed (by a Bush appointee). Fanni & Freddie were a small part of it and helped the situation along but they were not the CAUSE of it.

[HEyHEY]

6. Ever also thought maybe you're wrong?

Maybe he's right? You know often times people mistake a simple disagreement for a conspiracy.

[JohnWxy]

10. well, I have been aware of economic -business news for about 4 plus decades as a matter of personal

and professional interest.

specific to this matter I might suggest you read: Foreclosure Phil

This presents a good and simplified explanation of the situation for the average reader. I realize most people hate reading about financial matters or even worse articles on economics. As I said I have had and interest in economic and business issues for more than four decades so I don't consider it torturous to read articles on these subjects.

No, I am not wrong. I base that on a 'bit' of knowledge in these areas.

But really, this is simpler than understanding the economics of financial derivatives (who does understand these things, certainly not the executives of Wall Street banks!!) it is just a matter of deregulation of the trading in these contracts and the fact that it has been the Republican party who has pushed this. And you would know that by reading, fairly regularly, a reasonably good newspaper.

If you want to counter anything I have proposed i suggest you read up on the subject to use some facts to bolster your position. My guess is if you do read up on this issue you'll see what I am saying is right and really pretty obvious (once you get informed on the topic).

good luck.

[TexasObserver]

13. Your comment has no relationship to the OP.

[Danieljay]

2. Ya. My wife has been listening to these NPR interview's. She says I need to stop being reactionary

and not making it political, that no political party is really responsible according to these interviews.

I must admit, most of the interviews have explained the crisis quite well, though there is a lot of political maneuvering that allowed this to happen. No conspiracy but years of deregulation contributed to this mess. Lack of government oversight has been a huge factor, and I blame mostly Republicans for it.

[JohnWxy]

7. YOUr wife is uncritically swallowing the message and thus confused into thinking Niether political

party is more responsible than the other. In this case that is bull. This is one of the meta-messages the Republicans have been pushing for years. It is meant to cause people to despair of bein g able to make things better. Apathy serves republicans (and any self-serving politician of either party) well.

THe REpublican Party has been pushing for deregualtion of all business activity for decades. They sponsored the bills I mentioned to you to deregulate trading in commodity futures and financial derivatives. It is the unregulated trading in these instruments which caused the Enron debacle and the incredible rise in gas prices the last two years and now the worst financial crisis since the great depression.

Not recognizing the causes of this crisis is reckless and not-too-bright. But I can see why the Republicans want the M$M to lay off covering the real cause. Because it is their policy of deregulation that caused this crisis.

YOUr wife is like so many people. It gives many people a head-ache to think about it. But if you do not get informed on the subject you may vote more idiots (or ne'er-do-wells) into office making things even worse. I for one do not believe that ignorance is bliss. I think that is a short sighted and immature way of looking at things. Our problems will not go away if we just ignore them or pray they will somehow get better. I believe people have to take action to make things better.

I also believe in criticising the media when they are obviously not covering a story honestly.

[WindRiverMan]

9. In my opinion, the main thing that the Democrats did wrong

was to allow Freddie and Fannie to get so large. Allowing two corporations (and I really don't give a shit if they were propped up at first by the government) to hold 5 Trillion dollars worth of mortages was simply wrong. The Democrats should have pushed to break them up, regionalize them, and not allow Freddie and Fannie to get so damned big. We DO have anti-trust laws on the books. I have to call it as I see it, and that is our main failing, not creating legislation to break these guys up. Although being totally realistic, as encumbered as all of these financial instutions are with the bundled bonds, it probably would not have made much of a difference.


I pray to God that when we get The Man in charge of things, and a solid majority in the Senate, we pass several of the Worker's Rights Laws and get some Unions back in the swing of things. The worst thing Ronald Reagan EVER did was to break the Unions. I blame 90% of what is going on today on lack of worker represenation, laws against striking, and weak labor unions. It is an unbalanced playing field and we need to get it back. Only then, when real wages start to grow, and people don't NEED exhuberent amounts of Credit, will the economy be healthy.

[JohnWxy]

12. I don't consider Democrats angels. But as I pointed out, they tried to pass an amendment to get

Fannie and Freddie out of sub-prime loans but every Republican voted it down (exactly 4 democrats voted against it). So they tried. I don't know what more they could have done.

What almost nobody realizes is during the six years the Republicans controlled Congress, Democrats were lucky if they could get into a committee meeting where legislation was being crafted. The Republicans ran the legislature like a one-party state. Democrats could really do very little legislatively unless the Republicans acceded to it.

and again FAnnie and Freddie WERE NOT THE CAUSE OF THIS CRISIS. IT WAS DEREGULATION THAT DID IT. They could have abolished FAnnie and Freddie or got them completely out of sub-prime mortgages and the crisis would still have happpened. Banks were buying MOrtgage backed securities without really knowing what they were worth or what the likelihood of default was. There were warnings from people but the Wall Street executives wouldn't listen (in fact three women working for Lehman bros. tried to tell managemant there that they should not buy some of these mortgage backed securities - and they we're fired for it.). THey also did not keep enough assets on hand to support these securities (in case of default). Instead they bought Credit Default Swaps, insurance against default. But when everybody began to worry about the value of these CDOs (Collateralized Debt Obligations)(finally , but too late) then the house of cards began to collapse and banks became afraid to loan even to other banks!

[Doctor_J]

11. Yes, I heard that moran. Fair & balanced!

Bring down Big Media!