Wait!! So things are SOOOOOOO dire that congress can take a 2 day vacation in middle of the week!?

[uponit7771]

The fact that Bush is FOR it is reason ENOUGH to be against it...I tend not to agree too quickly with people who don't have critical thinking skills.

I am NOW against this bill especially seeing that it's not TRULY dire but they're trying to ram it down our throats. Also NO ONE out there, even those who've paid their mortgage and has GREAT credit right now, can renegotiate their loans with the bank, KEEP their house and the government pick up the tab.

I'm not talking about the people who lied about their income or even the notable percentage of people who's documents where changed I'm talking about the people who HAVE good credit and have lost TONS of equity on their houses.

Screw this bill...

[YEM]

1. It is a very religious holiday for many people

Pretty ignorant on your part.

[uponit7771]

8. Right cause they take vacation for Muslim holidays?! The reason you gave was thoughtless. Thx

[Madam Mossfern]

16. Today happens to be a Muslim holiday as well

Eid Mubarak to our Muslim posters on this forum!

[uponit7771]

23. So take Chritmas off if we're attacked on Christmas eve!?!?!? WTF?! Either it's dire or its not...

...if it's not dire then let them take their damn time and Bush and congress (dems included) should stop tryin to scare the shit out of people.

[Madam Mossfern]

59. This is not an attack

........................... DON'T PANIC! .........................

[harun]

89. Thanks!

[Orsino]

11. No, not ignorant. Informative, in fact.

Individual firemen may get religious holidays off, but the fire department still answers calls. If this were really an emergency, I would expect Congress to be at work today--indeed, I would expect them not to have slept last night.

Their inaction says there is not an emergency. I don't know whether this is a good gambit, but perhaps it will calm the markets. Personally, I think that there are some deals being made. My own feeling is that a good bill this Friday may be as good or better than yesterday's whatever-it-was.

Congress is a deliberative body not designed for quick fixes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SmgLtg1Izw

[madmom]

28. what shows there is no emergency is the fact the bailout proposal

sat on bush's desk for several months before he decided to present it! Thought they could ram it thru before congress left just like the IWR.

[Orsino]

88. Do you believe that their original proposal was months in the making?

I don't, if only because they claim it was. But it would also have been foolish of them to plan for months without ever showing it to Congress.

[madmom]

91. No I beleive it was on bush's desk for months hoping the fear factor would play again!

[Orsino]

92. I think you may be giving them too much credit for forethought...

...but the only thing I'm sure of is that we'll never know for sure. x(

I think that their management style leans toward the who-cares-about-tomorrow, and relies on power grabs during crises.

[nxylas]

79. But the Fire Department can work with whatever staff they've got

Congress is a slightly different situation, because if they went ahead and voted without congresspeople of a certain religion, it would effectively disenfranchise Jewish congresspeople, which would be discriminatory.

[uponit7771]

80. I expect Christians to work on Christmas if there was TRULY a DIRE situation though, we shouldn't be

...held hostage by any one religion

[Orsino]

86. Nah.

Jewish reps can work in an emergency.

[trashcanistanista]

85. Thank you.

I work at a trauma center and I can assure you we are always staffed on religious holidays. If it is an emergency, they should be working. They are sending the wrong message by taking the days off.

[pnwmom]

2. It's the most solemn Jewish holiday. It would be like working on Easter or

or Christmas.

[SteppingRazor]

6. Second most, but yeah.

Jewish congresspeople wouldn't be able to be in Congress to vote. Why, we'd miss Joe Lieberman! :silly:

[uponit7771]

14. They wouldn't have to VOTE just talk it through, if this was an attack would the 90% of Christians..

..in congress take off because of Christmas?

I can see it, "...New York was nuked but hey,...........it Christmas..."

[pnwmom]

53. This isn't a nuclear attack. It's not clear what it is at all. n/t

[uponit7771]

58. Right, IE the reason I would want to take a month or two and not pass anything now especailly...

...something that doesn't TRULY fix the underlying reason of falling home prices.

[my3boyz]

68. I remember when I phonebanked for Kerry and I called not knowing it was a Jewish

holiday the people would not even talk to me. They said it was a Jewish holiday and that I needed to call back another day. They were not rude about it but I still felt bad.

[uponit7771]

69. But congress and the Bush admin are telling us the situation is "dire" & there's needs to be immedia

...immediate action.

I don't see that.

If the situation were TRULY and REALLY dire we'd be pissed if the house adjourned because they didn't want to insult anyone.

I don't believe the situation is dire and the alarmist actions are leaning me away from acting RIGHT NOW on this without putting measures to stop house prices from falling or force banks to renegotiate loans with people in bad or good situations.

[Jersey Devil]

20. Maybe 3rd?

Not Jewish, but I would think Yom Kippur is the most sacred day followed by Passover. Rosh Hashana, while very important, is not as solemn as the other two according to my understanding, but nevertheless, to insist that a Jew work on Rosh Hashana would be asking them to violate their religious principles and should be respected.

[uponit7771]

24. The rest of them!??!! What about the other 500+ in the house who AREN'T Jewis or Muslim?!?

[LeftishBrit]

33. Nothing to prevent them reflecting on the issue. Perhaps a bit of reflection would do some good.

And apart from the discrimination aspect, holding a vote at a time when most Jews and Muslims won't be there would just favour Republicans. As most Jewish American politicians, and probably all Muslim ones, are Democrats.

[uponit7771]

37. So the situation is SOOOO dire they only need to "reflect"!?! Again, if we get attacke don Christmas

...eve it's OK with you if congress just "reflects"!?!?

Come on dude, they're tryin to scare the shit out of us needlessly AGAIN...this is another IWR, this is another patriot act vote and this thing does NOTHING to sure up falling home prices.

[Jersey Devil]

41. First, there are 435 members of the House, not 500+

and it makes little sense to meet to discuss the most important legislation they are likely to consider this year with many of them missing, particularly among leadership. Barney Frank (who is Jewish), for instance, was the leader in the House on the bill that just failed. Do you think anything could be done in his absence?

[uponit7771]

44. If we're REALLY and TRULY is a dire situation then yes, why is this even a question?!

[Jersey Devil]

48. No one is going to die because of a two day holiday

We have them every week. They are called "weekends".

I favored the bailout. But Jeezus, the whole world is not going to end because Barney Frank observes his religion for two days.

[uponit7771]

50. Great, that's what congress and the Bush administration is ACTING LIKE though. They're acting like

...the whole country is going down the tubes per second and we have to pass something NOW!!

The country is NOT going down the tubes and nothing RIGHT NOW has to be done (IE they adjourn for 2 days) and we can take our time with this bill instead of congress and Bush ramming it down our throats.

This walks like, talks like, quacks like and has an orange bill like the IWR, patriot act etc

[Jersey Devil]

54. No, that is what Bush & Paulson are acting like, not Congress

I believe Congress understands the situation is urgent but also understands that two days aren't going to make much difference one way or the other.

[pnwmom]

57. The Christians don't have to work on their major holy days either. n/t

[uponit7771]

9. ...or some Muslim holiday?!?!?! You with me on this?!

[Erin Elizabeth]

15. Actually it IS Eid al fitr and Keith Ellison is the only Muslim

member of Congress so he cannot be forced to work today, either.

Does that answer your question?

Stop acting ignorant, it's a high holy day for 43 members of Congress and the federal government cannot force them to work on a day such as today. It's called freedom of religion, it's a good thing, remember?

The entire congress has NOT shut down. Chill.

[uponit7771]

35. Right, so we get attacked on Christmas even congress can take Christmas off!?! WTF?!?! You're post..

...are thoughtless.

Be an A - Z thinker before you call people ignorant

[Erin Elizabeth]

38. You aren't even COHERENT.

Have we been attacked? Really?

It is an INDIVIDUAL choice whether to work or observe the holy day or some combination thereof, but the government cannot compel them to work on those days, PER THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

That does NOT mean the Congress is ACTUALLY not doing any work at all right now. Geez, calm down. Fly out to DC and check Capitol Hill out for yourself if you're so freaked out about it.

I bet you'll find plenty of the more than 500 congress members and their staffers still working.

Now breathe.

[uponit7771]

39. They haven't adjourned?! They're actively working on this thing?

[Erin Elizabeth]

43. What, do they have to be actually SITTING in the big room

to be working?

What strange thinking. You do realize they all have offices, right? And meeting rooms and conference rooms and conference calls and all sorts of things.

They aren't all off fishing or in temple, no. Only a small percentage are observing a religious holy day and the Congress has to "officially" adjourn, but that does NOT mean "STOP WORKING!"

There's nothing for them to vote ON right now, dude! They need to draft something new! Which means they wouldn't be doing it in the ACTUAL Senate or House chamber ANYWAY. They would be doing it in meeting rooms off the chambers.

I think you're maybe just working off some misconceptions of Congress here. There IS still work going on on this issue. They have not all just dropped it and gone out for drinks, I'd be willing to bet my own life on it.

[uponit7771]

47. No, keep working on the bill and not wait to vote if there's something that can be done IF..IF we're

...REALLY and TRULY in a DIRE situation...if we're REALLY and TRULY in a dire situation no damn holiday would be an excuse for them to take off.

That shouldn't even be a question.

[Raineyb]

75. Small point of contention

The entire House is recessed so yeah they have shut down.

And it's not a small point. If this is an actual emergency then we can't afford for them to adjourn for two days. If it's not that dire they can take their scheduled recess as usual. It would appear that the Congress is trying to have it both ways and that's not right considering the amount of scare they ratcheted up.

Regards

[uponit7771]

76. +1

[blondeatlast]

10. Agreed.I've already seen enough of it. nt

[ingac70]

49. Lots of regular people who actually work for a living...

have to work on Easter or Christmas. I've had to more than once in my working life.

This just shows the stuff about it being such a crisis is bullshit.

[uponit7771]

55. Right, they're acting as if the country is going down the tubes if we don't act NOW. This whole thin

...thing walks like, talks like, quacks like and has an orange bill like the IWR and patriot act

[pnwmom]

62. None of the Christian members of Congress work on their holiest days.

So they try to recognize the major holy days of the other major faiths.

[uponit7771]

65. Not Muslims, I disagree with that... Either way, this might be a good thing but I wish they'd lay...

...of the panic button

[ingac70]

70. If this was going on at Christmas...

I'd expect the bastards to be there working on it.

[treestar]

74. If it were a huge crisis and happened on Easter, they'd still work

That's the point, I believe. They'd work on Christmas if it really were an emergency.

Though the Christian holidays dominate this society, so maybe the stock market doesn't run that day anyway.

[treestar]

72. But how many Jewish congresspeople are there?

It must be a small minority, so why not go ahead and if their votes prove pivotal, call them at home? Seems to make more sense if this is truly a big crisis.

[uponit7771]

77. +1, I don't like this thing...

[spanone]

84. i beleive it was easter when the good christian buSh* came back for terry schiavo bullshit

[Occam Bandage]

3. "Screw this bill. Jews are working on it."

[stray cat]

4. The bill was voted down - no intervention - why bother right?

let the chips ride.....after all congress has secure salary and pensions unlike the rest of us. Most of them also have secure money in the bank. They will get their checks I suspect unlike some of us on payrolls.

[lostnotforgotten]

5. But, But Armageddon Is Nigh - What Would Jesus Do? - Is Allah Laughing At Us Now?

eom

[uponit7771]

18. God is prolly shaking it's head...this is crazy, there's NO WAY I'm for this crap.

[54anickel]

71. I know this is way off your topic, but, spiritually, I find the tie-in surreal

Each year on Rosh Hashanah, "all inhabitants of the world pass before G-d like a flock of sheep," and it is decreed in the heavenly court, "who shall live, and who shall die... who shall be impoverished, and who shall be enriched; who shall fall and who shall rise."

And that whole God as King of the Universe; code for a civilized world.....

[uponit7771]

78. Ironic no doubt

[maseman]

7. It would be REALLY bad

if they worked through a Jewish Holiday. Plus I think a few days off to discuss what the hell they are going to do is key. If you don't think that those Congress Critters are on the phones discussing what the hell to do you're nuts.

11% of the Senate is out on a religious holiday today.

ON EDIT

I had a bad list of Jews in Congress. There were mistakes so I took it down. I will find a REAL list.

[uponit7771]

12. What about an important Muslim one?! Again, I wouldn't care if they worked through Christmas and I..

...know damn well if a doctor took a 2 day holiday while a patient was on the operating table he'd get sued.

They work this out or they don't leave, this situation isn't dire...and the fact that Bush is FOR it is reason enough to be against it.

[cali]

17. There are two Muslims in the entire Congress.

And the comparison you drew is inane. Having said that, I agree that if the situation is as dire as some make it out to be, the Congress should not have adjourned.

[uponit7771]

19. agreed...edited

[cali]

25. could your response be anymore pathetic? Reading for comprehension

is something you have clearly not mastered. I said I agreed with you that if the crisis is as dire as some are saying, the Congress should not have adjourned. I see you share personality traits with McCain: you're reactive.

[uponit7771]

40. Sorry, I had your avatar mixed up with another....my reply is edited

[LeftishBrit]

29. It's that too. Eid. Though I doubt that there are many Muslim members of Congress.

These are serious religious holidays for both Jews and Muslims. Not just a fun vacation. Although Jews and I think also Muslims are allowed to work on a holy day if it's to save a life, I doubt that two days are going to make the big difference here.

[cali]

two points: Bernie isn't in the House. He's in the Senate.

and he's not a practicing Jew. I'd bet that's true for others on your list.

[MaineDem]

26. Actually the list isn't up to date at all

I don't believe Martin Frost is still in the House and Paul Hodes of NH is not on the list.

[cali]

13. two points: Bernie isn't in the House. He's in the Senate.

and he's not a practicing Jew. I'd bet that's true for others on your list.

[maseman]

21. You are correct

I found a few other mistakes on that list so I edited it out. Bad source. Sorry.

[dogtag]

22. Tom Lantos is dead. nt

[renate]

27. I thought that when Lieberman was running in 2000

He said that he'd be able to do critical work on the Sabbath. And I've also read (though I may be wrong) that the Sabbath is actually holier than all the other days... the reason I remember that is that I thought it was kind of wonderful that holiness wasn't proportional to rarity. (I did a little Googling just now and that seems to be the case.) So if Joe would have been able to do essential work on the Sabbath, couldn't they work on this holiday if it were really critical?

[Erin Elizabeth]

30. IF they wanted to, yes.

The difference is the government cannot force them to work on the high holy days.

It's up to each individual. Some Jews are at work this morning and going to temple this afternoon. Some have taken the whole day off. It's a personal thing, but their employer cannot force them to work today.

[uponit7771]

42. I would expect a Jew or Christian or Muslim to work IF....IF there was a TRUE emergency. Troops cant

...take a day off if they're attacked in Iraq just because it's a holiday.

Bush and members of congress are telling us we're in a dire situation, if we're not then they should take their time and stop trying to ram ANOTHER set of bad measures down the peoples throats.

[Madam Mossfern]

32. Yes Shabbat is the holiest day.

One may work if it is to save a life. There was no reason why the non-Jewish members of congress could not have continued their deliberations.

[BlueIdaho]

31. How does anyone on this board know what is going on behind the scenes?

Do you really think everybody's either off at synagogue or gone fishing? Isn't it just possible that there are folks mapping out a new strategy as we sit here and type? Its true that the bill has been defeated but something will be passed. That is Barack Obama's position. So I guess my question is - do you support our candidate's position on a credit protection bill or don't you?

[harun]

90. I think the days off will give them the time they need to get their ducks in a row

Probably why Wall Street is doing ok today. They likely feel the same way. A couple days to cool off is a good thing here.

[Erin Elizabeth]

34. Is this a more up to date source?

Jewish Members of the 110th Congress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Senate
(13— 2 Republicans, 9 Democrats, 2 Independents)

Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Benjamin Cardin (D-MD)
Norm Coleman (R-MN)
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Herb Kohl (D-WI)
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Joseph Lieberman (I-CT)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Bernard Sanders (I-VT)
Charles Schumer (D-NY)
Arlen Specter (R-PA)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)

House
(30— 1 Republican, 29 Democrats)

Gary Ackerman (D-NY)
Shelley Berkley (D-NV)
Howard Berman (D-CA)
Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Stephen Cohen (D-TN)*
Susan Davis (D-CA)
Rahm Emanuel (D-IL)
Eliot Engel (D-NY)
Bob Filner (D-CA)
Barney Frank (D-MA)
Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ)*
Jane Harman (D-CA)
Paul Hodes (D-NH)*
Steve Israel (D-NY)
Steve Kagen (D-WI)*
Ronald Klein (D-FL)*
Tom Lantos (D-CA)
Sander Levin (D-MI)
Nita Lowey (D-NY)
Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
Steve Rothman (D-NJ)
Jan Schakowsky (D-IL)
Allyson Schwartz (D-PA)
Adam Schiff (D-CA)
Brad Sherman (D-CA)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)
Henry Waxman (D-CA)
Anthony Weiner (D-NY)
Robert Wexler (D-FL)
John Yarmuth (D-KY)*


*New members

[fed_up_mother]

36. Plenty of people are still working on the bill - they just won't vote on it

until after the holiday - assuming there's another bill to vote for. Yes, many congress critters and their staff are working on this as we type. I saw someone on MSNBC talk about this, and I have no reason to believe this not to be true.

[blondeatlast]

81. Exactly; there's no reason to think that the entire Congressional staffs of the Jewish and Muslim

congerss men/women share their boss' faith.

This is one of the sillier (or worse) threads I've seen lately. Glad to see a lot of sanity in it!

[xiamiam]

45. i'm sorry...there are good reasons to work on a holiday..nt

[uponit7771]

60. Right, especially if things are "dire" like congress and the Bush admin is telling us.

If things are NOT dire then someone should tell them to stop pushing the panic button

[JuniperLea]

46. The crisis will understand and wait until they return... eom

[Jersey Devil]

51. It might even be a good thing

They can go home and find out what their constituents really think instead of relying on email that can often be contrived and directed and we can see how the financial markets really react instead of relying on Bush and Paulson's doomsday predictions.

[uponit7771]

61. There's already an 80% against on this bill and reThugs are facing the brunt of it.

[JuniperLea]

73. I agree...

This "crisis" didn't happen overnight. If time is of the essence, then these *#)$*@ @$)*#*%$ should have brought it to our attention a long, long time ago. Incompetence is NOT an excuse.

[TwilightGardener]

52. Senate is in session, Jim Webb speaking now about the bailout.

[uponit7771]

64. They can't vote on the bail out, just talk about it which might be a good thing in retrospect. I...

...just wish they'd stop pushing the panic button on the issue and trying to ram it down Americans throats.

These measures do nothing to stop or soften falling house prices because housing inventory is high.

[FloridaGrl]

56. Yes they can

because it's a Jewish holiday. Secondly, the reasoning if Bush is for something then I must be against it is ludicrous.

[uponit7771]

67. So if we're attacked on the Dec 24th take Dec 25th off cause it's a very holy holiday?!? Again, that

...isn't logical IMHO.

Also, I tend not to agree outright and quickly with people who I don't see having critical thinking skills or disciplined, consistent thought patterns.

DOW up by 290

[FloridaGrl]

82. Are we attacked?

Your comparison is a stretch. Yes this situation needs urgent action but nothing suggest the country's economy will implode by taking the Jewish holiday off. This is the same kind of thinking that caused McCain to cancel his campaign because the sky was falling. I'm a christian and I would not want to work on one of my scared days if I can afford not to.
I believe Bush is an idiot but I don't believe he's ALWAYS wrong.

[uponit7771]

83. It's not a stretch and yes, Bush....congress and the "4th estate" is sayin the sky is falling and...

...Henny Penny and shit.

I've been listening to the radio and TV and that the consensus that comes across from congress, the treasury, the Bush admin and "economist"

[renie408]

63. No, there is nothing actually going wrong. Credit lines being closed, the stock market losing a t

trillion dollars, those things are just smoke and mirrors. There is no crisis. You have nailed it, you genius.

[uponit7771]

66. Nothing going wrong on main street, I could care less about wall street and people SHOULD yank their

...dough and put it into T-Bills etc before the bottom falls out on that too.

Again, there's NOTHING in these measures that STOP US housing prices from falling, even in good markets, and having people owe more than their houses are worth.

[kurt_cagle]

87. Today is, in childcare terms, a timeout

Yesterday afternoon, after the vote, grown men and women were this close: || from a knock-down drag out physical brawl. Most have worked through the weekend, many for nearly 16 hours a day, and tempers were razor thin. As a parent, when you have tired, cranky kids that are at one another's throats, the best thing you can do is to put them into timeout in their own respective rooms, let them calm down and THINK rather than just react.

The people in Congress are just that - people. They aren't superhuman, they have their biases and flaws, and they are mortal (and in many cases physically not as young as they used to be). No legislation would have been accomplished today or tomorrow anyway - no matter how compelling the crisis - because people would still be letting their emotions get in their way. Credit Pelosi (and Boehner, as much as it galls me) with that - they're giving people a chance to think about what really needs to be done, and when they come back on Thursday, they will likely be more capable of actually crafting real legislation rather than this panicked rats nest that was the Paulson bill.

BTW, I definitely would put the blame of all of this back on Bush's shoulders. He let this come to a crisis point, then when things had spiraled out of control, he basically passed the buck to somebody else (in this case Congress). Personally, this wasn't a deliberate attempt to play politics; it gains him nothing doing this, and just pushes his reputation even further into the dungheap. On the other hand, it is VERY typical of a manager who's basically not doing his job, is caught off guard when the crisis erupts, and then tries to hand it as quickly as possible to others while trying to preserve some semblance of being in control because he hasn't a clue how to solve it. I've known entirely too many managers that were precisely like that ... and they tended to be people that had their position because they were related to the CEO or had been roommates with the chairman of the board in college or because they look good in a suit.