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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:46 PM
Original message
Two more days until martial law
Edited on Mon Sep-29-08 09:03 PM by mynameisdane
In less than forty-eight hours, an active military unit will be deployed domestically for the first time. I know this story received some chatter here at DU around the beginning of September, but I think we should start the rattle again now that the policy is going into effect. Let's get the word out there. These troops were in the hell we once referred to as Iraq for the better part of three years. I doubt that "crowd control" is in their nature. We can't let this story get buried beneath economic and election news. Make no mistake about it: this is martial law. We need to question both the timing and the reasoning behind this ridiculous abuse of power. Is it a preparation for election theft? Is the economy going to get so bad that people are expected to march through the streets? Why is the first brigade to be deployed in Iraq three separate times being handed the responsibilities of the local authorities. Bush is wagging his dick in our faces one last time. Demand answers.

Here is the story, via Army Times, for those who haven't heard:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090... /

EDIT: it took the "/" off the end of the hyperlink for whatever reason

I don't want the shit we had to deal with here in Minneapolis/St. Paul to be exported to the rest of you. Please make some noise. You know the media will do their damnedest not to touch this.
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bad link.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. Sorry...add a "/" to the end of the URL...the board formatted the link n/t
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hmmmm.....
the page is gone. Link doesn't work anymore. Coincidence? I doubt it.
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm not understanding how that many troops is gonna do...well, anything
It's not even enough to have like 1 troop in every city over like 50,000.

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Narkos Donating Member (919 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Yeah, look at what 150 K troops couldn't do in Iraq! n/t
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. one of their duties is "crowd control"
if the brigade is transported to the location of a protest or march, I assure you there is plenty that they can do.
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cabluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
64. Particularly with that microwave emitter device that heats up your skin is.
deployed on innocent protesters.

And we though holding a cellphone next to your head was cancer causing.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
60. You only have to brutally crush a couple demonstrations to send a message
I think they're only there in case of a revolution though.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'll bet you $1000 right now that you're wrong.
If you're going to post chicken little stuff like this, you should have no problem backing it up.



Really, is this paranoid shit necessary?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Link here
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. The offer stands.
They freed up a brigade when it became clear that Ike was going to hit the Gulf coast. Never mind that they wouldn't be in place in time to do anything, they could still use the decision as a buffer to help with claims of failure to prepare. I really believe that's all this is.

You're free to wear the tinfoil hat, though. Maybe I'm wrong. The bet is still available.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. I thought that at first...
but they are going to be active for a full year (and perhaps longer). As the article mentions, soldiers were used to help with Katrina, but not under the command of Northcom.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
59. that article, together with the thrashing of the constitution, and with the
camps that seem to have been build and all the rest, concern me.

Our government is corrupt, how far they'll go is only limited by willingness to be informed and active.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
80. uh, then why not just send National Guard troops home?
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. .
Edited on Mon Sep-29-08 09:11 PM by MercutioATC


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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Your link doesn't work. Since you said there was DU "chatter"
I suggest you link to that; otherwise I gotta call, well, you know.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. Sorry...add a "/" to the end of the URL
here's one topic from earlier this month (I remember a few existing)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

search DU for Northcom to find more links. Northcom is scary stuff. They've been controversial since their creation in '02.

I don't blame you for being skeptical. That's a good trait.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Trying to incite panic..thanks. n/t
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Panic? Now here is a reason to panic!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. So the Army is going to do the Ntional Guard's job and the tinfoil hatters
are called out on U.

If you believe this shit, just ell me now and save me some time.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. oh, I apologize.
There is absolutely nothing to panic about. The first domestic active military unit under the command of pentagon-established Northcom trained specifically for non-lethal "crowd control" is a total non-story. My bad.

You should correct Amy Goodman too.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/22/headlines "]

"Army Unit to Deploy in October for Domestic Operations

Beginning in October, the Army plans to station an active unit inside the United States for the first time to serve as an on-call federal response in times of emergency. The 3rd Infantry Divisions 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent thirty-five of the last sixty months in Iraq, but now the unit is training for domestic operations. The unit will soon be under the day-to-day control of US Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command. The Army Times reports this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to Northern Command. The paper says the Army unit may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control. The soldiers are learning to use so-called nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals and crowds."


What a silly tinfoil hatter.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Correct link:
CLICK HERE

The OP's link just dropped the last / of the url when the board processed it...
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. No need to be so heavy handed. Turn off the ATM's and lock credit card usage and close the banks.n/t
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Probably requires control of less than 20 data centers
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. The link is good, read the link and REC this POST!!!
The link was good but died.

Skills and technology lead us to a cache archive of that page here:

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:fMtfQU6Nn04J:www.ar...

Now rec this post and prepare to exercise your Second Amendment rights...

:patriot:
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. I've lived 25 years under marital law
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Chorophyll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. LOL!
Anyway, I call for unrestrained panic. Starting now. Go.
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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Okay.
Ijust ran around my chair three times with my arms in the air screaming loudly. Is that good enough?
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Chorophyll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It's a start. nt
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
76. I missed the signal. Do I get a do-over? nt
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. wow you are seriously ill informed

Every unit has some assigned duty even when they are at home. This duty is just the normal type of general assignement that units get while they are at home resting up and reuniting their families:


Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas.



Two other things point out how completely deranged your perspective is:

1) You apparently think that they are going to signal martial law by publishing an article in the army newspaper, oh and btw you can find a few hundred of these for all of the other military units that are in the US.

2) The fact that they include the comments that they are releasing all of the "stop loss" folks is a sign that this unit is going to be not needed on anything urgent and can let all of the folks who complete their recent tours go.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. it's not martial law in name
but it smells a whole lot like it.

Read the whole article. It is mentioned (further down in the article) that they could be used for "crowd control" and it specifically mentions that they will be trained to use non-lethal weaponry. This is the first active domestic unit under Northcom (created in 2002 by the Pentagon).

Perhaps calling it martial law was a bit hyperbolic, but I'll be damned if this doesn't send a shiver down my spine. Ignore it if you must.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. no I'll just ignore you

you do realize that most of those guys are Americans just like you and the normal Army unit has more Democrats in it than Republicans.

And if you go into their homes on a base you will see their homes filled with signs calling for the impeachment of bush and their hatred of cheney.

get a grip.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. Orders are orders
I'm guessing you weren't anywhere near St. Paul at the beginning of this month. Otherwise you'd understand that normal, down-to-earth authority figures can abuse their powers when directed to do so at the drop of a fucking dime. This is their jobs we're talking about. Disobedience leads to dismissal. You make it sound as though nobody has ever followed an order they personally disagreed with. This is the same ass-backwards logic that leads people to label those of us who are anti-war as "anti-troops". A strawman argument if there ever was one.
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raebrek Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #43
78. I'll bite
What happened in St Paul at the beginning of the month? None of my relatives called or wrote to tell me about anything? Hey not even my out of work brother said a word. What happened in St Paul?

Raebrek!!!
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. There were nearly 1,000 arrests outside the RNC
Many of who were peaceful protesters or people completely uninvolved with the protests (there was a concert right across the Mississippi with Mos Def, Tom Morello, and others where a group of 100 were surrounded and a mass arrest took place. I was one of the 100 or so. Here's a video that was buried and just surfaced on the 18th. Here If you pause it at the 4:20 (haha) mark, you can see me in the bottom right corner wearing a white shirt, a black hat, and sunglasses. I was simply walking towards the bridge so I could attend the concert. They released me because I kept making noise and showed them my ticket. My two friends, who were planning on buying their tickets at the gate, were arrested. One was even given a gross misdemeanor for THROWING POOP AT AUTHORITIES. It's bogus. The group was nearly 20% of those arrested throughout the week. Probable cause be damned.
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masshole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. this is normal?
"In the meantime, theyll learn new skills, use some of the ones they acquired in the war zone and more than likely will not be shot at while doing any of it. They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack."

"The 1st BCTs soldiers also will learn how to use the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded, 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them."
Its a new modular package of nonlethal capabilities that theyre fielding. Theyve been using pieces of it in Iraq, but this is the first time that these modules were consolidated and this package fielded, and because of this mission were undertaking we were the first to get it.
The package includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets.

Now I see why they government needs these http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/new_...




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Fractasticlicious Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
49. Thanks, that is the coolest thing I've seen all day.
But you know, the harmonic resonance of hundreds singing kumbaya will disintegrate one of these. Have no fear!
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
67. PORTABLE prison cells?? WTF??
Are they attempting to assemble a Gitmo stateside or what?
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
57. I'd just like to add
.. part of the reason the Army is doing this is that these are duties normally assumed by state National Guard units. Perhaps you hadn't noticed, much of the NG is in South Asia.

One other thing. The officers of our military took an oath before God to obey the orders of the civillian leadership and officers appointed over them, but they also swore to uphold and defend the constitution. I believe that the officers of our military take that oath seriously, and are not going to go along with a coup d' etat.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #57
77. Yeah, I mentioned this above and no comeent on it.
I don't think sanitly is valued in this thread...
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. this sucks...
so we send the National Guard to fight wars and then bring regular army/active combat troops home to play National Guard? WTF?
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Regular duty guys are probably burnt and needed home time
and now are getting stuck with guard duty too, is probably what's going on.

Troops are to stretched. Bush is Reagan on a mountain of blow, double-fisting Old Granddad half gallons. What a damn mess.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. Yeah, you're right.
Those 4,000 troops are going to load us all into concentration camps.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Again, mentioning Martial law was a bit hyperbolic on my part
but this does seem like the early stages of something resembling that. Just imagine the impact of using this brigade for the duty of "crowd control" mentioned in the article. Of course I don't think the military is going to overthrow the citizen population. I just think this brigade will be used to stifle individual incidents of dissent (protest, marches, etc.) What we should take from this is that the army is being handed the responsibilities of the police. I find that terribly frightening.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. A bit?
More than a bit, be honest.

I don't like the army taking police duties, but even the Bush administration would know that success would be impossible doing things this way, if that's what their intent is. 4,000 people couldn't declare martial law in a single one of the top 20 cities in the US, let alone the entire country.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Def. If I could change my subject title, I would.
The policy itself is enough for outrage. There was no need for editorial inflammation on my part. But this is unprecedented in our nation's history. It's all part of broader agenda, in my opinion. The patriot act, the creation of Northcom, and now Northcom's control of a domestic military brigade. Terrorism is being used as a scapegoat for silencing dissent at home. It's nowhere near martial law, but it's nowhere near constitutional. Perhaps martial law is the endgame if we let our liberties erode enough. Remember, a couple thousand officers (under the command of Homeland security) caused a hell of a scene here in Minneapolis/St. Paul during the RNC. That shit is simply being exported to the other 49 states.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #45
66. It's not at all unprecedented
As a matter of fact, the use of military troops as police has happened more than once. Look at the Adams administration and the Alien and Sedition acts. Look at the Whiskey Rebellion, or the Utah War, or the 1838 Mormon War. It has happened in our history, just not in the last 100 years. This doesn't diminish the importance of what's happenning today, but it should put it in some context. The point I was trying to get at earlier is that this is being done with such a small number of troops as to be entirely ineffectual, if the real purpose is to declare anything like martial law.

What I'm trying to get at, is that I think this is a paper tiger. It will take a lot more than just this to have a meaningful impact.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
69. Maybe they're a secret Dark Jedi Brigade
If so, we are pwnt.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. Actually, you may have heard wrong. It's not martial law....we don't have the troops for that...
It's Barney Law...



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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
34. Bushler has a speech scheduled for tomorrow at 745am
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Chorophyll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Yes? Chances are pretty good it's about the economic situation. nt
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
35. There's little reason to even worry about martial law
I just think its crappy our troops are so thin they can't r&r when they rotate back, they just fill in for the guard instead.

I think so many are sheepish that you don't need much of a presence to pull it off but they have no real reason for it, most are already in the house or working anyway. The great eye isn't worried about the masses at this time, I don't believe.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
36. WTF?
Do you see Putin's head over the horizon too?

Seriously people, get a grip.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. let me just confirm this?
you have no absolutely no qualms with Northcom controlling the first active domestic army brigade for a number of purposes including "crowd control".

And I need to get a grip? Your civil liberties are being pulled out beneath you and your only reaction is one of arrogance and misguided wit.

Here's a picture of a flag. Forget everything I've said.

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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. Here's what Amy Goodman reported on 9/22
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/22/headlines

"Army Unit to Deploy in October for Domestic Operations

Beginning in October, the Army plans to station an active unit inside the United States for the first time to serve as an on-call federal response in times of emergency. The 3rd Infantry Divisions 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent thirty-five of the last sixty months in Iraq, but now the unit is training for domestic operations. The unit will soon be under the day-to-day control of US Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command. The Army Times reports this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to Northern Command. The paper says the Army unit may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control. The soldiers are learning to use so-called nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals and crowds."


Maybe some of you are just seething due to the debate over the financial crisis, but I really think you're downplaying a potentially dangerous moment in our nation's history. Do as you must, I suppose. A little over a week ago, people seemed to give a shit about this story. Now it's just more tinfoil talk. Figures.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
41. Ok, I've bookmarked this.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
44. You do realize this is not the first time this has happened - right? nm.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. scroll up a few comments
from democracy now:

"Beginning in October, the Army plans to station an active unit inside the United States for the first time to serve as an on-call federal response in times of emergency."

and from the original Army Times article

"It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas.

But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities."

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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. Color me terrified... Seriously... martial law in TWO DAYS?
Just exactly what do you think these 4,000 troops can do in a country the size of America? I got to tell you - if they all show up in Idaho they will be both outmanned AND outgunned. You obviously have no idea what kind of shit the good old boys around here have buried in their back yards...
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. once again
I've admitted time and time again throughout this thread that using the words "martial law" in the OP was hyperbolic. This is important enough that it doesn't need to be sexed up like that. Don't you believe, ignoring my usage of those two words, that this is a serious issue that deserves more press? No, I don't think that this force of a few thousand soldiers will subdue an entire nation. Not at all. Martial Law was the wrong term. But could this force have great influence over a large civilian crowd involved in a protest of sorts--in a word, yes. At the RNC, we witnessed an excessive police force brutalizing and jailing around a thousand civilians (many peaceful protesters, participating in permitted marches). But I have no doubt in my mind that this is a step in the direction of martial law, albeit a small but significant one. I totally jumped the shark using that phrase, but my original point stands. People need to know about this.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
47. AIEEEEE!!!
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Fractasticlicious Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
48. BWAAHAAHAAAHA! BITE A PILLOW!
Honestly, do you jump at every noise in the night? I'll check back with you in 49 hours. By the way, is that 49 business hours?
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Thank you for contributing to discourse.
There are many noises in the night, but this is different. This is unprecedented. My OP declared that the American people should know about this ridiculous policy and I mentioned that there are certain questions which need to be answered.

Why is the army being given domestic police duties? Why is the brigade under the command of Northcom. What does crowd control and civil unrest have to do with homeland security? Why is this happening now, in the midst of an economic crisis and on the brink of a presidential election? Why is the policy being enacted for a full year? Is this about terrorism or is this about dissent?

If you could explain to me the necessity of an experienced army brigade being given the duty of non-lethal crowd control DOMESTICALLY for the course of a year (and perhaps permanently), than I will surely admit that my concern is unnecessary. But I don't think you can do that. I don't think you can justify this unprecedented deployment. I dare you to explain why now, more than any other time in history, it should be the role of the army to handle civil unrest in America. Go ahead...
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Fractasticlicious Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Sedation.
Seriously.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. in other words,
no?
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
68. "Bite a pillow"? Wow, original. Thanks for contributing a freeperism
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
52. A single brigade is not gunna pacify this nation.
Grow the fuck up already!!! :eyes:

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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I'm as tinfoil as they come and even I get 1 brigade divided by 50 states doesn't = martial law
But it still bugs me.
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cabluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #54
65. Its a start. A precedent. Thats enough for now.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
58. 1 brigade = 4000 soldiers. Population of USA; approx 300 million.
You know, if they were planning to impose Martial law, I don't think they'd be letting it slip out in the army Times, I think it would be classified out the yin-yang.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. Those upstart citizens with own little spot of terra firma and probably quite a few other things....
just wouldn't have a chance. We should all should be shaking in our boots since those big bad army-men have such a firm grasp on why and how they can take it away :scared:
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Damian the LHP Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
61. This is unnecessary.
Things are bad enough without more panic-mongering.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
63. an interesting Greenwald Salon article from a couple days back dealing with this
For more than 100 years -- since the end of the Civil War -- deployment of the U.S. military inside the U.S. has been prohibited under The Posse Comitatus Act (the only exceptions being that the National Guard and Coast Guard are exempted, and use of the military on an emergency ad hoc basis is permitted, such as what happened after Hurricane Katrina). Though there have been some erosions of this prohibition over the last several decades (most perniciously to allow the use of the military to work with law enforcement agencies in the "War on Drugs"), the bright line ban on using the U.S. military as a standing law enforcement force inside the U.S. has been more or less honored -- until now. And as the Army Times notes, once this particular brigade completes its one-year assignment, "expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one."

After Hurricane Katrina, the Bush administration began openly agitating for what would be, in essence, a complete elimination of the key prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act in order to allow the President to deploy U.S. military forces inside the U.S. basically at will -- and, as usual, they were successful as a result of rapid bipartisan compliance with the Leader's demand (the same kind of compliance that is about to foist a bailout package on the nation). This April, 2007 article by James Bovard in The American Conservative detailed the now-familiar mechanics that led to the destruction of this particular long-standing democratic safeguard:


More

Also, this sums up the point that, while this deployment does not signal martial law, it breaks down a wall protecting us from martial law.

UPDATE II: There's no need to start manufacturing all sorts of scare scenarios about Bush canceling elections or the imminent declaration of martial law or anything of that sort. None of that is going to happen with a single brigade and it's unlikely in the extreme that they'd be announcing these deployments if they had activated any such plans. The point is that the deployment is a very dangerous precedent, quite possibly illegal, and a radical abandonment of an important democratic safeguard. As always with first steps of this sort, the danger lies in how the power can be abused in the future.


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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #63
81. Yes, your title was a little frightening....
Edited on Tue Sep-30-08 01:11 PM by windbreeze
however...this is exactly how things change, and people stand by and let it happen...some don't see how little things, can end up being larger things...In the first place...Bush has been trying to get control of the National Guard, one way or another since he took office, even to the point of trying to make them give up their individual armories and meet on a Federal military base...nothing worked...sooooo, he sent them to Afghanistan/Iraq instead...that worked...he got what he wanted, even if it was in a round about manner...We had sitting troops here on American soil, on German soil, on So. Korean soil, all over the world, and reserves...they could have all been dispensed...but uh uh...it had to be the National Guard, instead...I'm not even sure it's legal, actually...but no one stood up and questioned it...I mean it is an illegal war, right?

The Nat'l Guard is the ONLY unit, each state has, to protect that particular state from enemies, foreign OR DOMESTIC, the ONLY military unit that a state's GOVERNOR has command over....So NOW, we have an Army Battalion, that is going to be assigned to Northcom, and be used on the streets of America, FOR THE FIRST TIME, for crowd control, and is trained in the use of special equipment to do their job..so instead of questioning WHY this is necessary in the first place, or what are they expecting to happen?...everyone is told, not to get their panties in a twist....

Then, in case there are those who have forgotten...there have been multiple round ups of citizens "criminals"...the first one took place in April of 2005, I believe...10,000 people were rounded up on one week-end..who did it?? why the top agencies and their flunkies right down to the local sheriff...this was NATIONWIDE...the same thing has happened several more times since...EVERY AGENCY COOPERATED with this effort...from the top, right to the local level...and the funny thing is...NO ONE knew the federal raids were taking place until after they had already happened...

What about Blackwater? What ARE they up too? How many are their numbers? I agree...they are a concern, because they are mercenaries operating on our soil...but I am just as concerned with ANY military that has standing orders to interact with American citizens on their own soil...using any sort of weapon

This may very well mean nothing to some of you...to others of us, it creates a very real concern...no one has to go off the deep end...but how about we don't close our eyes and minds either...How about we remember that the man holding the top office in this country, and his cronies, has spent the last 8 years putting one determined foot in front of the other...people don't usually do such things w/o a reason...considering the Exe orders, Signing statements, and new laws on the books...I take nothing lightly...nothing..and I firmly believe there is more to this, than meets the eye...

In fact, I swore I'd never have a gun in my home..you can draw your own conclusions about how I currently feel...wb
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
70. Whatever happened to Posse Comitatus?
Yes, the title the OP used is hyperbolic but isn't this illegal??
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. What ever happened to Habeas Corpus?
If you want to get your panties in a twist - its not the Army you need to be concerned with - its Blackwater.
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #71
79. When's the last time you heard of Homeland Tours?
Maybe it doesn't bother you much but it spooks some taking into consideration everything else we know they're capable of.

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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #70
83. check out the Greenwald article I posted right above your post
The defense bill that passed shortly after Katrina reworded the 1806 insurrection act, using the clumsy phrase "other conditions." The President is now able to deploy military domestically for..."other reasons." That renders Posse Comitatus useless.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
72. I think this post should be scrubbed... it's pap nonsense. n/t
n/t
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
73. So is Wednesday morning
the start of Martial Law or will it be tonight? I need to get some things done and want to know exactly how much time I have left to get them accomplished. Thank you ever so much.
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. *chuckle*
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chicagoexpat Donating Member (843 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
75. Replace ur tin foil hat, the black helicopters are getting thru
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RichardRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
84. Given the activity in the markets, does anyone know where I can
buy aluminum futures? After all, tin foil is really aluminum these days, and if this sort of thing goes on very long there's going to be a HUGH demand for shiny hats.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
85. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SurfingAtWork Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Sure you are. You're very brave, Captian McDouchey of the 148th Fighting Keyboardists
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. I understand you are doing civil defense while the NG is in Iraq.
So do many others--and we appreciate it. I may not be a GWB fan, but I'm capapble of rational thought and the origoinal poster is, well, a nutjob and a half.

Thank you for serving OUR country, sir (or ma'am). :patriot:
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Bush and his supporters are lying fools who "suck balls"
Edited on Tue Sep-30-08 05:58 PM by Dr Fate
I dont agree with the OP either, but before you rant about "hippies" and liberals, you should know that your commander in chief is an idiot and a liar. (I think you do know this)

Here is the stupidist thing I've seen all day:

"Last time I checked freedom was worth more than money. the job isn't finished over there so shut the fuck up"

LOL! So that's your idea of "freedom?" For people you disagree with to "shut the fuck up"- sorry- but you are an idiot if that is what you think freedom is. You are dishonest if you know better but said it anyway.

And for the record, I have short hair, drink beer & listen to country & western music- so you may need to find another "hippie" strawman if that is who you are expecting to find...

Even so, I just hope like hell you dont killed over there fighting for Bush's lies & damned lies.
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Fractasticlicious Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-30-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
89. So, how many hours do we have left?
Is it 24, or were you referring to "business hours" in which case we have 40 to go? I just want to know so I won't be caught taking a dump when the end comes.
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