Is it just me or is this campaign much more FUN than 2004?

[Alhena]

I was of course a firm supporter of John Kerry, but I don't recall the last campaign being nearly as entertaining as this one. I think the main difference is that I am supporting a candidate who is the most talented and charismatic we've had since JFK. Sure, we have the headwinds of racism to fly into, but just watching the two candidates compete on a daily basis, it's like watching Tiger Woods go up against one of the average golf pros that he dispatches every major golf tournament.

I'm confident we're going to win this thing based on the battleground state polls (Colorado, Iowa and New Mexico should do it), but the process of actually *getting* there is much more fun because we can always count on Obama to say and do the perfect thing. I like John Kerry, but his political skills just aren't at the same level as Obama's. So this is a very entertaining election for me- do you agree?

[unblock]

1. it's also refreshing to see the republicans acting defeated already

and the media not completely supportive of them.

[blm]

2. Do you believe it would have been THIS easy for Obama in 2004 up against Bush and Rove at their most

powerful and with most of the best known Dems siding with Bush on his terrorism and Iraq war decisions and the last Dem president on a book tour DEFENDING Bush from the very criticisms the Dem nominee was making at the time.

I love Obama's campaign and the idea of his presidency, but there is no lawmaker in all of DC with the most honorable and UNIQUE record of service uncovering government corruption and advocating for open government. Kerry is a HISTORIC lawmaker - this nation would be in its second decade of full on fascism by now if you took Kerry's work out of the last 35 years.

If Dems like you KNEW THAT in 2004, you would have been excited.

[Alhena]

5. I was more excited about beating Bush- Kerry didn't seem quite as genuine as Obama

just my opinion. The whole "John Kerry reporting for duty" shtik seemed a bit contrived- he should have just been himself.

[politicasista]

8. Yep. Ditch the consultants

Except there are people that would disagree that he wasn't genuine. There both different. We should like them both.

[vstephane]

9. I wish Joe ran in 2004 n/t.

[blm]

14. Joe was part of the problem in 2004 - he promised Bush he wouldn't 'politicize' the Iraq war

during the election. He kept that promise and the last Dem president was on TV during his book tour not only supporting Bush's decisions on terrorism and Iraq war, but DEFENDED Bush vigorously against the very criticisms Kerry was making at the time.

Joe would tell you himself today that he didn't do enough to support Kerry - in fact, when Kerry called for Rumsfeld's firing THREE TIMES in 2003-4, the big name Dems like Clinton and Biden would NOT back him up.

[karynnj]

35. He actually tested the waters in Iowa and found little response

Part of the problem was that his strong suit foreign policy was the same as Kerry's, who was far better received in Iowa and NH.

[blm]

13. That WAS himself. YOU think it's contrived because you have no idea the level of service the man has

performed decade after decade.

You knock those who took the HARDEST KNOCKS for you, for our party, for this country, and who did the MOST - that means MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE in DC - the most to block the fascist path this nation has been on the last 50 years.

But YOU think he should have been entertaining ....he didn't HAVE the backup from Dem party that Obama enjoys now that Bush's poll numbers have been consistently under 40% the last 3 + years. What makes you think any of Obama's charm and ease would have won the day in 2004 in the REALITY of THAT political atmosphere?

[politicasista]

18. Something to think about

Guess no one wants to answer that one? :shrug:

[blm]

22. I blame the media and the complicit Dems who worked to undermine Kerry's efforts for decades

as they coddled and protected the corrupt and powerful elite Kerry had worked for years to expose.

Because of their kissing fascist ass for decades, even many Democrats don't know much about their nation's actual history, even though it effects them in some way every single day.

[politicasista]

25. True

I still didn't know that about Biden (I thought he defended Kerry along with Dean, Clark, Cleland, etc), but he seems to be learning from his mistake though.

[blm]

27. Biden was OK more towards the end but would still limit himself re Iraq war.

.

[politicasista]

28. Oh. ok n/t

[karynnj]

38. You are right, he was a foreign policy surrogate

Kerry and Biden are friends, but there were times when Biden would speak of Biden, rather than Kerry. The worst was when aked about the $87 Billion he answered that Kerry was wrong and should have voted for both as he did. In fact, given today's situation, people should consider Kerry's reasons. He voted for the funding in the bill that paid for it by rolling back part of the tax cuts for the wealthiest 2%, tehn against the bill that added it to the debt.

Also, as BLM said, he did not completely give KERRY's position on Iraq - which was not helpful.

[politicasista]

40. Thanks n/t

[karynnj]

33. What the hell are you doing?

Kerry is Obama's best surrogate - why this stupid thread where you are adding insults to Kerry. As to genuine, Kerry is probably the most genuine real deal on either side of the aisle. You obviously know NOTHING about who he really is. It is pretty darn "genuine" to return home from a war, where you have been injured and had friends die and face the truth that the leaders of the country knew that the war could not be won and kept it going because each didn't want to be the first President to lose a war. Then he risked never having a political future by speaking before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Bruce Springsteen thought that speech real enough to use a line from it - a line that is likely the most famous line from a US speech since JFK.

Then having made it to the Senate, he risked his career again to investigate stories (told to him by vets recruited by the Contras) that the CIA was turning the other way and allowing the Contras, RW thugs from Central America, to bring cocaine into the country to fund purchase of arms.

Or spending 5 years unraveling the complicated rat's nest of transactions that led him to understand how international drug dealers and non state terrorists (including OBL) were moving money.

Obama is a very charismatic, eloquent man who has the ability to be a great President. John Kerry, who was cheated out of the Presidency may have worked harder and succeeded more than anyone else in trying to stop the right wing. Those efforts, without which this country would have been worse, likely fueled the intensity of the right wing attacks on him - more than racism has fueled the attacks on Obama.

You don't have to attack Kerry to praise Obama. By the way, Kerry had chosen the theme call to service long before the convention. It did not refer to just the years in Vietnam. You might want to look at that entire speech - it was quite good and the equal of Obama's acceptance speech. It was very highly praised at the time.

[politicasista]

39. Thank you. At least

Obama shows ten times more respect for Kerry than most here do.

Me thinks the Obama/Kerry comparisons need to stop. Obama is not Kerry and Kerry is not Obama. Without Kerry and/or Durbin, we would not be hearing of Barack Obama.

The economy is in shambles, people are hurting out here. Let's move on and help Obama get elected. All of this does not help Obama's cause.

[politicasista]

44. Still **crickets** after this nice post n/t

[sharp_stick]

3. Obama is always so cool

I love to watch him respond to an attack or idiotic political ploy like "suspending" a campaign. He's always on top of the issue and answers with smart incisive phrasing.

[politicasista]

17. Yes he is a cool dude

:patriot:

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Oh, yes. The Primary season was pretty grim, though.

Somebody had a sig line during the primaries that said %100% for Gore 80% for Edwards 60% for Obama, which fit my political pilgrimage of the past year pretty much exactly.

Once I started paying more attention to Obama, though, the more I saw, the more I liked. The guy has a core of solid decency with an incredibly well-honed political instinct. I watch him and marvel.

[seabeyond]

6. maybe kerry circumstances were simply different. but yes, ... i told sons yesterday

i have never seen, could never imagine a campaign like this. it is unheard of and certainly entertaining. i guess why we are able to enjoy the show is the confidence of a win. but damn if mccain doesnt make all this easy for us

[iiibbb]

7. It's worse for me this time around... too many stresses inside and outside of politics.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Best election year ever.

Particularly the primaries.

[Terran]

11. There's a great deal more schadenfreude this time

(sp?) I mean, there's SO much to chew on. The spectacle of a once more-or-less respectable pubbie like McCain self-destructing, it's...interesting, that's fer sure.

[Alhena]

12. Yeah, Palin has been very entertaining

[trof]

15. Infinitely.

:-)
repug meltdown

[ContinentalOp]

16. I was going to post a similar thread. This has to be the most entertaining election cycle...

in our lifetime, if not in history. So many strange and crazy things have been happening.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

19. It's more fun because our guy is kickin ass.

[4_Legs_Good]

20. While I was more scared last time, this time I'm more excited

Last time I was AnybodyButBush until about 2 weeks before the end, when I got to like Kerry fine.

This is the FIRST time that I've been voting that my first choice is our nominee, so I'm doubly excited. And watching Obama work is just so much fun. He energizes me, and every speech he gives is better than the last. I'm so hopeful with him!

In 2004 I was just scared shitless about another 4 years of George Jr. - a fear that proved very well founded.

David

[wildeyed]

21. More fun.

We are winning. And the stuff the pubs have been pulling, well you couldn't make it up. Scary when you think about it from a reality perspective, but couldn't you see them in a Hiassen or maybe Elmore Leonard novel this year?

[politicasista]

23. It's fun watching the Repukes unravel.

In addition to seeing that the Dems (like the not so likeable, genuine Kerry :sarcasm:) are finally standing with Obama and hitting back hard this time.

[BlooInBloo]

24. So much more fun, it's not even funny how much more fun this is.

[DevonRex]

26. Palin and McCain are so much fun to ridicule My dog is smarter

than both of them put together.

[tritsofme]

29. Its nice to have a great candidate and a sane running mate.

A combination that Democrats have lacked since 1996.

It was clear to me that Kerry would likely lose by this point in 2004, however just the opposite seems true this time around, and that obviously makes the campaign more fun for Democrats.

[karynnj]

30. I think that 2008 is a far better year for the Democrats and I think Kerry has been by far the best

surrogate out there. As the NYT said, his convention speech was the best non-acceptance speech in 2 decades. In addition, Kerry's endorsement came at a critical time and with it came substantial help. The most important being that Kerry led the fight against attacks from the Clintons in the primary and from the Republicans since then. Kerry himself did not have a surrogate who was as good or tough or as high status as John Kerry. Had he had a "John Kerry" defending him it could have made the difference. Not to mention, in Joe Biden, Obama has a VP who defends him as well - a role Edwards refused to play for Kerry. Thus Kerry had to be both presidential and levy attacks on Bush at the same time.

There are trades off with any candidate, Kerry's enormous depth of knowledge, long record of accomplishment and skill as a debater beat Obama. Obama has more enthusiastic support from the young One thing they are very similar on is that both have a quiet dignity and a calmness dealing with problems. obama also has a less intense, more upbeat personality.

The fact is that Kerry ran when Bush was at near 50% approval and more than half answered the country was going in the right direction - now it is closer to 30% and 20% respectively. In 2004, Kerry far outperformed Bush vs generic Democrat in polls. Now, generic Democrat does substantially better against generic republican than Obama does vs McCain (which could reflect McCain strength. Remember that in the tougher 2004 climate, Kerry nearly won.

So, this year is more fun because we are more likely to win. Your conclusion that Obama is a more skilled politician is in my opinion wrong. This is not duplicate bridge where each played the same hand. 2004 was much tougher.

[Borgnine]

31. I agree.

Kerry is a great man, but he was ultimately the "safe choice." Everyone was more rabid about beating Bush than seeing John Kerry in the White House. This time around, we have a candidate of Bobby Kennedy-esque proportions who inspires and renews faith in the country.

Meanwhile, McCain's circus is just damn entertaining.

[vanderBeth]

32. Yes, very much so.

[JustAnotherGen]

34. Witthout reading other responses

Yes. And I was fully engaged in 2000 AND 2004. But this? This is just too much fun. Especially since the Palin pick. It's like one long extended train wreck with her in the mix. :rofl:

[codjh9]

36. It's nerve-wracking and crazy... not sure I'd quite use the word 'fun' - maybe when it's over!

[sunnybrook]

37. more fun for sure

you could not make this shit up... if you were sitting in a room trying to come up with wacky twists and turns, this scenario would baffle even the most imaginative writers!

[Frumious B]

41. 2004 was excrutiating. This is more excrutiating because the stakes are higher.

I've had way more sleepless, tossing and turning type nights pondering this election than 2004.

[Jennicut]

42. I am enjoying watching McLiar implode

Ironically, Bush had it more together. He flunked the debates but had all the Rethugs on board and good consultants like Karen Hughes (I detest her but she is much better then the jokesters McLiar has. Plus Katrina had not happened, Iraq got bloodier for awhile, the Rethugs got voted out. Obama is going in with more of an advantage. John Kerry was not charismatic but he kicked ass in the debates. He won all 3 hands down and really took it to Bush and gave the Dems a voice for the first time in 4 years to really stand up to Shrub and co. McLiar and Palin are more fun to pick apart because they make it so easy. I was just plain angry at Shrub and Dick and co in 2004.

[politicasista]

43. "He was charismatic in 2000," said the media n/t